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  #901   ^
Old Sat, Mar-25-06, 18:26
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,863
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvest
How can people who gorge on fat and rarely see a vegetable be healthier than we are?

This is, IMHO worth a read.
http://www.discover.com/issues/oct-.../inuit-paradox/


Very interesting article! But one thing I think the anti-veggie people should note is if you're not eating your meat raw, including organ meat, you're probably not getting all the nutrients you need.
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  #902   ^
Old Sat, Mar-25-06, 18:42
Wildflowr6's Avatar
Wildflowr6 Wildflowr6 is offline
Always Shining
Posts: 1,932
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 363.3/332.6/145 Female 5'7"
BF:'fraid so...
Progress: 14%
Location: Virginiaaahhh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvest
How can people who gorge on fat and rarely see a vegetable be healthier than we are?

This is, IMHO worth a read.
http://www.discover.com/issues/oct-.../inuit-paradox/

EXCELLENT article.....thanks for sharing!
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  #903   ^
Old Sat, Mar-25-06, 19:03
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Very interesting article! But one thing I think the anti-veggie people should note is if you're not eating your meat raw, including organ meat, you're probably not getting all the nutrients you need.
I also have noticed that. And aside from eating some raw meat and eggs and rare cooked meat, I think eating "traditional" animals with the proper balance of nutrients (i.e. O3/O6 fats) is important. Bear eats grass-fed meat. I have always been concerned about getting grass-fed bison instead of grain-fed beef, and feel I should be consuming at the very minimum the liver of these animals. I also want to consume lots of wild salmon and other wild seafood. I am not certain that people eating only farm-raised meat, with the skewed fat in those animals, are going to be truly healthy. Just not certain they would be.

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Sat, Mar-25-06 at 19:10.
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  #904   ^
Old Sat, Mar-25-06, 19:10
Try4Me's Avatar
Try4Me Try4Me is offline
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Posts: 1,464
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 178/000/145 Female 5ft. 4in.
BF:
Progress: 539%
Location: Kentucky
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Very interesting article. It talked about the importance of fat with the meat. What do you think a healthy ratio of protein to fat would be?
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  #905   ^
Old Sat, Mar-25-06, 19:51
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Try4Me
Very interesting article. It talked about the importance of fat with the meat. What do you think a healthy ratio of protein to fat would be?
About 60-70% of your cals should come from fat. Only about 30 or so from protein.
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  #906   ^
Old Sat, Mar-25-06, 20:19
Fauve Fauve is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,274
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 167/135/127 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: Victoria, BC
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There is one thing I still don't understand; please forgive me for being so dense.

If there is dietary fat circulating in my body, why would my body go to the stored fat for energy? And if it doesn't, how can I lose weight?

Also, why would mother nature provide us with a sugary first meal, in mother's milk, if we are not meant to eat sugar for optimum health; it seems cruel, doesn't it?
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  #907   ^
Old Sat, Mar-25-06, 20:52
theBear theBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
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Vision: I have excellent vision. For whatever reason, other than the astigmatism we all get after reaching the 40's (which has not changed in 30 years), I have noticed I retain a remarkable range of accommodation. I was always short sighted, but now not only can I read without any glasses, at a comfortable distance to hold reading material, but my acuity at a distance has slowly improved to a noticeable degree. I do not need glasses to pass a driving test nor to enjoy a theatre presented movie. The lenses in my glasses are undercompensated, but I rarely use them, as they make near things hard to see. I have no idea whether this is diet, but I do think there is a high probability as I seem to show very few signs of aging everywhere else. My lenses are very clear. My dad had to have cataracts removed in his late 50's, so I doubt it is genetics. He also broke his ankle stepping off a curb at around the same age.

Oprah herself is something of a 'ratbag' and supports lots of bogus and ridiculous ideas, like angels etc. The 'doctor' Is a fraud, and his statement is a ridiculously laughable but sadly persistent vegetarian's fable.

Meat NEVER 'rots' or decays from bacterial action anywhere in your body other than in between your teeth (bad breath, but no decay, if you don't brush and floss)- and that is only because the mouth is a friendly place for all sorts of bacteria to live. Your stomach is sterile, and is so acidic that very few bacteria can survive for more than a few seconds. The notable exception is hylobacter pylorii, the cause of gastric and duodenal ulcers. This discovery was ignored for some time due to the strong belief that the extreme conditions in the stomach 'precluded' any bacteria's survival.

Meat is quickly and completely dissolved in your stomach by HCL, it is then treated with pancreatic enzymes in the intestines and is absorbed COMPLETELY in the first part of the small intestine (in less than 60 cm/2 ft.). The feces of a carnivore is composed almost entirely of the body's waste- and only a very small amount of certain colon-dwelling bacteria (which are protected in the appendix). These bacteria do not thrive unless there is vegetable refuse reaching the colon to feed on, and the removal of one's appendix always leads to some digestive difficulties whenever the diet changes or antibiotics are taken. The appendix is part of our 'emergency' structures to allow us carnivores to tolerate short intervals of surviving on vegetation. It corresponds to the cecum in herbivores, but in a highly attenuated form. Obligate carnivores usually lack an appendix or any other structure to shelter intestinal bacteria.

My remarks on my second child's (I have four- all by different women) mother was referring to a former wife- in 1960, not my present one (of 11 years), with whom I have no children. The woman concerned, was on a near total meat diet during her entire pregnancy and only got pulled into carbs while breast feeding after the birth.

Everyone who read everything I have posted to date, should understand that a fully keto-adapted person is NEVER in ketosis, which is either a disease condition or something that happens briefly for a short time after eliminated carbs- the period referred to as 'keto-adaptation'. NO carbs is THE safest level during pregnancy (and all of life).

People who 'gorge' on fat are eating the single most important nutrient for energy,. work and health. This was aided by 'having rarely (usually never) seen a vegetable'- as is resoundingly proven by their noted bad health today on a mixed diet including vegetable sourced foods.

Organ meats cooked or raw are unnecessary, although there is the case for OCCASIONAL intake of liver, raw or slightly cooked. Totally raw muscle tissue is likewise unnecessary so long as MOST of the mass is 'rare' (i.e., raw)- for excellent nutrition. Grass fed or grain fed beef, nutritionally there is no difference, only one of quality and flavour. Just like freezing lowers not nutrition, but quality and flavour.

Fat from your diet, circulating in a body which is carrying excess body-fat stimulates body-fat release, supplementing and thus prolonging the time taken to consume the dietary fat. It also raises the metabolism. Salt interferes with this function, which is the reason not to add any salt to your food. Mother's milk is heavy in sugar for a very good reason: Humans have no effective body hair of fur and there fore no built in protection for loss of body heat through the skin. An adult has a much smaller mass-to-surface area, therefore loses less heat. A tiny baby is very vulnerable to chilling. Add to this the large body and head of a newborn, you see that a fatty baby is going to have a lot of difficulty negotiating the mother's narrow pelvic opening during birth. The lean baby after birth needs to gain a significant fat cover as quickly as possible to survive. Recognition of this basic human necessity is the basis for nearly all cultures adoring fat babies, and classing them as 'healthy', while exhibiting great concern for skinny ones and regarding them as 'sickly' or dangerously undernourished. Nature also provides a first set of disposable teeth ('milk teeth'), not only because of the small size of the baby's mouth, but also so that the permanent teeth are not damaged by the milk diet of infancy. We are the exquisite end result of a very long period of evolution.

Therefore:
Fat baby = Safe and sound.
Skinny baby = Cause for concern.
Fat child: = Sometimes good, sometimes of concern depending on the society.
Fat adult = Not considered a good thing in most cultures.

Good on all of the readers who understand my motive for sharing my life experiences, and the reasons and proofs I found along the way.

Last edited by theBear : Sat, Mar-25-06 at 21:03. Reason: spell/errors
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  #908   ^
Old Sat, Mar-25-06, 21:45
Fauve Fauve is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,274
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 167/135/127 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: Victoria, BC
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Thanks Bear! I get it now.

You say that, nutrition-wise, there is no difference between grass-fed and grain-fed beef. Not even the omega-6 to omega-3 ratio? And the CLA content?
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  #909   ^
Old Sun, Mar-26-06, 00:37
theBear theBear is offline
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Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
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No difference- the fatty-acid content of beef suet is not dependent on diet, since the osmotic exchange of fatty acids into and out of adipose tissue is very small.

Omega-3 is animal in origin thus not a component of an ox's diet, vegetables have omega-6, which has never been high on anyone's list for enhancing health. Omega -3 is produced in an animal's body, it is one of the unsats an animal needs- your own body can and will make it also. Today's paper had an article citing a study in the UK which unexpectedly showed NO significant relationship between omega-3 and heart disease. We know suet has plenty, so what's up?
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  #910   ^
Old Sun, Mar-26-06, 01:37
sailsouth sailsouth is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 78
 
Plan: General Controlled Carb
Stats: 225/180/180 Male 185 centimetres
BF:
Progress: 100%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
Omega-3 is animal in origin thus not a component of an ox's diet, vegetables have omega-6, which has never been high on anyone's list for enhancing health. Omega -3 is produced in an animal's body, it is one of the unsats an animal needs- your own body can and will make it also. Today's paper had an article citing a study in the UK which unexpectedly showed NO significant relationship between omega-3 and heart disease. We know suet has plenty, so what's up?


Omega 3 is not "animal in origin" although we can get what we need from animals that eat vegetation (which is where the omega 3 comes from) or by consuming omega 3 rich vegetable sources ourselves, such as flaxseed/linseed - although there is some variation in efficiency in converting the omega 3 fat ALA (alpha-linolenic acid)to DHA and EPA (docosahexaenoic acid and eicosapentaenoic acid) - so for that reason, animal sources are superior, as this conversion has already been done for you.

Your own body cannot manufacture omega 3 or omega 6 fats (we don't have the necessary enzymes to create them as we do for other fats). This is why they are known as essential fatty acids (EFAs) just as essential amino acids are those that cannot be manufactured by the body, so they must be obtained from dietary sources.

Whats up? The study was a meta-analysis of a number of previous studies, statistical analysis of this type can be manipulated to give just about any result.
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  #911   ^
Old Sun, Mar-26-06, 10:00
LOOPS's Avatar
LOOPS LOOPS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,225
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 74/76/67 Female 5ft 6.5 inches
BF:29/31/25
Progress: -29%
Location: LA SERENA, CHILE
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I thought only fish/seafood contains the long-chain EPA and DHA that we need (and eggs some DHA). Some people don't make this stuff that easily from ALA (like me) so I supplement and eat fish.

It seems that grain-fed beef IS much higher in omega 6 than omega 3 - nutritiondata.com has a breakdown of all the fatty acids found in different meats and as far as I can see, just about all beef, chicken, pork etc has much more omega 6 than omega 3. I'm assuming all their sources are bog-standard grain fed.
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  #912   ^
Old Sun, Mar-26-06, 13:04
CGraff CGraff is offline
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Posts: 35
 
Plan: my own
Stats: -/-/- Female 67 inches
BF:
Progress:
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
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theBear,
I read this on your website - "The female hormones seem cause a strong craving for carbs, as the female body isn't fertile without a layer of fat. This makes this diet very hard for women to follow." can you comment on this?

is the salt in cheese okay?

does it matter what time we eat our meals? like should breakfast be the biggest meal? should you not eat 3 hours before bedtime?

Thanks SO much for all your help. I love this thread!
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  #913   ^
Old Sun, Mar-26-06, 13:13
Fauve Fauve is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,274
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 167/135/127 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: Victoria, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
No difference- the fatty-acid content of beef suet is not dependent on diet, since the osmotic exchange of fatty acids into and out of adipose tissue is very small.


This is great, since I am having a hard time finding grass-fed beef around here. It's all grain-fed Alberta beef.

I am curious about the salt in cheese too; that's the only salt I am consuming since I have stopped adding salt to my cooking. Lately, I have been light-headed though, and I wonder if this is the reason, my body adjusting to the lack of salt.
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  #914   ^
Old Sun, Mar-26-06, 14:36
Try4Me's Avatar
Try4Me Try4Me is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,464
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 178/000/145 Female 5ft. 4in.
BF:
Progress: 539%
Location: Kentucky
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Dean,
Thank you for answering my question.

So let me wrap my brain around these figures. Should I multiply .70x my calories for the day? That should give me the calories I need for fat??

The same for protein? I know it won't be exact science, but a ball park?? Where might I find out more about this. The Eades talk about getting enough protein in your diet mostly.

I am just not sure how to figure all this out. I have read that you must eat the fat with protein.

Thanks again
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  #915   ^
Old Sun, Mar-26-06, 15:18
Harvest's Avatar
Harvest Harvest is offline
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Posts: 86
 
Plan: Paleo*lite
Stats: 185/135/125 Female 5'7
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: Chugiak, Alaska
Default Ketogenic Diets, Keto-adaption and Physical Performance

This is well worth a read, IMHO and offers interesting links to wade through.

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/2

Last edited by Harvest : Sun, Mar-26-06 at 15:20. Reason: spelling
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