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  #556   ^
Old Fri, Mar-10-06, 23:52
Frederick's Avatar
Frederick Frederick is offline
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Plan: Atkins - Maintenance
Stats: 185/150/150 Male 5' 10"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayustar
Well, I should propose an idea here....

Why don't we take some of us here who are already on the meat and egg fast or have been on it and have them do it for a month, very strict.....What do you guys think? Do it for a month or so, very strict, no dairy other than butter? Whatever fats you like, mayo included?


I'm up for this. It would be interesting to compare my results with others. I'm curious to see how much of a challenge it really will be staying close to zero carbs.
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  #557   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 00:26
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Ayustar Ayustar is offline
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Plan: Human Experimentation
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Yay, when do we want to start? I am scared to weigh lol. I want to see what happens though. I don't know how many people want to try this. We should open a thread just for this? I don't know, what do you suggest? It would be an interesting study. It is easier to do it if someone else is doing it with you. I prefer meat over vegetables *mind you I LOVE veggies and fruit, well, I love ALL food..this is how I got this way in the first place haha* If we have a bunch of people doing this and logging results everyday then that would be awesome.
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  #558   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 00:54
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PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
Default More muscle myths?

Muscle Metabolism: Aerobic vs. Anaerobic

Dynamic Chiropractic - March 20, 2000, Volume 18, Issue 07
by Thomas Griner, DC

Four different types of muscle fibers will be discussed here. However, only the aerobic slow-twitch fiber and the anaerobic fast-twitch fiber are found in human skeletal muscle. For the purpose of gaining additional insight provided by comparative study, the cardiac muscle fiber and aerobic fast-twitch fiber will also be discussed.

Aerobic means with oxygen. In body metabolism, it also means with mitochondria. The mitochondrial structure acts as a substrate to bring reactants together and catalyze reactions. The structure also helps control and neutralize the radicals, which also occur in oxidative reactions. The mitochondria also produce enzymes, which further catalyze the reactions so that they will occur at body temperature.

Three of the four fibers are aerobic, with the mitochondria in each being different from the other two. The aerobic fast-twitch fiber is really no longer a muscle, but a bag full of mitochondria with a few contractile fibers remaining. The mitochondria in this fiber are one-third the size of those in the aerobic slow-twitch fiber. These smaller mitochondria can only oxidize the components of glucose, not fatty acids or ketones as the larger mitochondria can.

The mitochondria in the cardiac muscle fibers is three times the size of the aerobic slow-twitch fiber (nine times the aerobic fast-twitch fiber) and has the added capability of oxidizing lactic acid back into pyruvic acid and pyruvate back into glucose. The only other organ which contains the largest mitochondria is the liver. The smallest mitochondria appear bright red in color like the myoglobeen, which accompanies it; the intermediate mitochondria are brownish red, and the largest mitochondria are purplish. The presence of large numbers of the largest mitochondria give the heart and liver tissues their purplish color.

The anaerobic muscle fiber contains mitochondrial fragments that produce the enzymes needed to reduce glucose to pyruvate and pyruvate to lactate. In photomicrographs of stained aerobic and anaerobic cells abutted against each other and with a capillary in the corridor between them, the mitochondria of the aerobic fibers are seen bunched near the capillary like moths around a flame, while the anaerobic fiber shows no such activity.

Comparison of aerobic and anaerobic fibers might lead to calling the aerobic ectomorphic and the anaerobic endomorphic. This is because everything other than muscle fibers is concentrated along the periphery of the aerobic fiber, but spread in the interior of the anaerobic fiber.

The mitochondria are naturally at the periphery of the aerobic fiber but are spread in the interior of the anaerobic fiber. The mitochondria are naturally at the periphery, because the oxygen they need can only come from outside the cell. The fatty acid stores are then placed near the mitochondria, because that is where they will be metabolized. The myoglobin needs to be near the periphery and the mitochondria.

Myoglobin has the same red color as hemoglobin and results in these aerobic fibers being referred to as red muscle fibers. The anaerobic fibers have no need for myoglobin since they have no mitochondria and as such are referred to as pale muscle fiber.

Aerobic fibers use large adenosine molecules as energy transporters, with AMP moving out to the mitochondria to be recharged to ATP, then lumbering back to the interior to activate calcium ion release. The mitochondria of the aerobic fibers must also serve the oxidative needs of the anaerobic fibers, so it is busy oxidizing pyruvate as well as fatty acids. (This is why the mix of the two different fibers does not vary much beyond 50/50, even though anaerobic fibers are three to six times larger than aerobic fibers.)

The fat molecule produces almost eight times the energy of a pyruvate molecule, but the mitochondria can metabolize pyruvate nine times faster than fat. In the anaerobic fibers, the large adenosine molecules are locked into the matrix of the sarcoplasmic reticular cisterns next to the calcium ion mechanisms the ATP must activate. Likewise, the glycogeneral stores are located next to the adenosine, which the glycolysis must recharge.

The mitochondrial fragments, which produce the enzymes to catalyze reactions, are also located here. Energy transport is handled by small fast creatine molecules, which can readily pass through the membranes to reach the mitochondria in the aerobic fibers. Just as the mitochondria will selectively metabolize pyruvate ahead of fat, it will also phosphorylate creatine and glucose molecules ahead of AMP.

When a runner reaches a speed of about eight and a half miles per hour, the respiratory quotient rises to one, which indicates no fat metabolism is happening. Speeds above 8.5 mph are produced only by the anaerobic fast-twitch fibers, which can contract three times faster than slow-twitch fibers (25 milliseconds versus 75 milliseconds). The fast-twitch fibers can produce a speed in excess of 25 miles per hour, which is attained in the 100 and 200-meter dashes.

It should also be clear that lower animals that don't have a 50/50 mix of aerobic slow-twitch and anaerobic fast-twitch fibers are in need of aerobic fast-twitch fibers (essentially bags of mitochondria) capable of oxidizing pyruvate from the anaerobic fibers.

The flight muscles of a bird are of necessity mostly all fast-twitch fibers. A photomicrograph shows that out of a sample of 30 fibers, 18 are anaerobic fast-twitch, with the anaerobic fibers being five to nine times larger than the aerobic fibers. If you have ever cut raw chicken or turkey breast, you will probably have noticed the tiny bright red dots located throughout the pale fibers.

The reverse situation exists in the cat soleus muscle, in that it is made up entirely of aerobic slow-twitch fibers. This allows the cat to move with incredibly smooth slow motion when in stealth mode. To provide the quick leap when pounce mode comes, the gastrocnemius is mostly fast-twitch fibers. A sample of 30 cat gastrocnemius fibers reveals seven aerobic slow-twitch fibers, 17 anaerobic fast-twitch fibers, and six aerobic fast-twitch fibers.

This heritage shows up in the human soleus being weighted slightly towards slow-twitch fibers and the human gastrocnemius being weighted slightly toward the fast-twitch, but still close to a 50/50 mix.

Glycolysis provides anaerobic energy by splitting glucose into pyruvate and hydrogen ions. These cannot be oxidized until they reach the mitochondria in the aerobic fibers. The concentration in the anaerobic fibers will rise until the hydrogen free radicals threaten to shut down the process, at which time enzymes trigger the combination of hydrogen with pyruvate to form lactate, which will level off at a concentration high enough to cause a gradient sufficient to drive the lactate into the bloodstream as fast as it is being produced.

This usually produces a 10:1 ratio in favor of lactate to pyruvate. Extremely fast activity can drive the lactate concentration high enough to shut down the process. The 10:1 ratio of lactate to pyruvate is a consequence of the slow clearing of venous blood from the fascicular arrangement of muscle fibers. The actual conversion ratio is one lactate molecule for each pyruvate molecule. The pyruvate travels across to the slow-twitch fiber to be oxidized to carbon dioxide and water. The carbon dioxide and water then become more concentrated, like the lactate waiting to be cleared from the cell.

Venous waste pickup is as important as arterial supply for muscle operation. If the venous drainage is choked down by hypertonic muscles undermining the rhythmic pumping, the arterial blood flow will divert through the shunts so that both supply and pickup will be compromised. The energy contained in the lactate is temporarily lost to the muscle cells when it is dumped into the bloodstream, but upon reaching the liver, four-fifths of the lactate is reconverted back to glucose and returned to the muscles.

When glucose enters the muscle cell, it is phosphorylated by the mitochondrial energy so that the glucose phosphate supplements the creatine phosphate in carrying anaerobic phosphate energy within the cell.

After a period of maximum exercise has depleted the oxygen and anaerobic energy stores of the muscles, only three minutes and two and a half liters of oxygen are required to recharge the creatine to creatine phosphate and AMP to ATP, and to reload the myoglobin with oxygen. However, it takes one hour and eight liters of oxygen for the liver to clear the accumulated lactate.

http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/18/07/06.html
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  #559   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 02:02
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JandLsMom JandLsMom is offline
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Plan: atkins induction
Stats: 330/330/165 Female 5' 10"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnp
I love the taste of veggies and pretty much all fruits...that is why I am so big. Once I eat even a little, I am hungry the rest of the day and nearly obsess about food. If I avoid them, I am not hungry and even forget to eat. It is weird, but it is my addiction. I LOVE FOOD! I love to cook, taste and serve it. I just have to avoid certain things (fruits and veggies) or I go into a carb tailspin and binge for months at a time. It is an ugly cycle, but that is how it is for me.


Boy can i relate to this Lynn!! I love veggies and fruits also, as well as every other food on the planet (thats how i got over 300 lbs!). BUT i am convinced i am a sugar and carb addict and have ruined my body to the point where i cant even handle any of it in small doses. Me, hubby and teenage son are all doing atkins. They seem to do whatever they want and the weight falls off them..they eat the protein bars and shakes OFTEN, they both drink tons of diet pop, my son eats the SF jello w/whip cream daily, and the LC yogurt like every other day. I just CANT do what they do! I have had to give the diet pop up (except for a SIP every once in awhile, I indulge in 1 protein bar a week and 1 shake a week, i won't eat the jellos and whip cream anymore either..and i never eat the full 3 cups of veggies that Atkins suggest..usually 1 cup a day, most days. It just seems like anything i eat that isnt meat, poultry, fish, cheese, cream or butter...either stalls my weight loss, or causes cravings or BOTH!!! And just FORGET cheating. I remember last time i did atkins (and i lost 81 lbs) anytime i would cheat it would set me off on a 3 day binge, or even a week binge! Not only that but if i managed to keep my cheat down to a DAY..i wouldnt lose a thing that week. THis time i am doing it CHEAT FREE because it just aint worth it. I cant afford week long binges. Part of me is feeling sorry for myself because i can't down 12 packs of diet cokes and eat sf jello every day...isnt that a riot???
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  #560   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 03:05
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JandLsMom JandLsMom is offline
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Plan: atkins induction
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayustar
Well, I should propose an idea here....

Why don't we take some of us here who are already on the meat and egg fast or have been on it and have them do it for a month, very strict.

Then have someone who eats a more varied low carb diet and have them go on meat and egg and see what happens. I am game. I do the meat and egg fast almost exclusively, but sometimes I break and have vegetables and nuts, I try to stay away from peanuts but they are the devil, that is beside the point though.

What do you guys think? Do it for a month or so, very strict, no dairy other than butter? Whatever fats you like, mayo included?


if you include small amounts of cheese i might consider it!! (im a cheeseaholic..even when not on LC..CHEESE is my FAVORITE food!) I have a hard time sticking the the 4 ozs of cheese or less per day that is on atkins induction..but i follow it because i want to lose this weight!! I can't imagine having NO cheese at all...that would suck...roflmao!
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  #561   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 03:14
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JandLsMom JandLsMom is offline
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Plan: atkins induction
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayustar
Yay, when do we want to start? I am scared to weigh lol. I want to see what happens though. I don't know how many people want to try this. We should open a thread just for this? I don't know, what do you suggest? It would be an interesting study. It is easier to do it if someone else is doing it with you. I prefer meat over vegetables *mind you I LOVE veggies and fruit, well, I love ALL food..this is how I got this way in the first place haha* If we have a bunch of people doing this and logging results everyday then that would be awesome.


I think starting a thread in the challenges section would be a good idea..and we can post our results there! (have you re-thought the whole Cheese thing??..come on..even Bear eats cheese ...lol)
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  #562   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 03:34
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Ayustar Ayustar is offline
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Plan: Human Experimentation
Stats: 170/100/105 Female 4'10
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Cheese stalls me, but I can choose not to eat it, lol. Well, I guess we can have cheese, at least the people who choose to eat it. That is the only rule I will bend haha. I think sugar free Jello is acceptable as well but no whipped cream! I know, painful, but you will live, I AM allowing cheese lol.

I will start the thread, I got nothing else to do at work, lol.
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  #563   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 06:40
theBear theBear is offline
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Plan: zero-carb
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Some cancer is known to be caused by chemical agents, like lung cancer and mesothelioma (asbestos). Some are caused by UV radiation, like skin cancer. Radiation exposure is a known cause, and a few have viral causes (HPV). Many, however are mysterious. I suspect the air pollution mediated by nuclear energy- i.e., tritium decay- the caused of 'photochemical smog, and perhaps others. Lung cancer amongst non smokers is on the rise, particularly in women in the US- home to well over 100 reactors, plus tonnes of waste held in water. Neutrons and the hydrogen in water wind up as tritium, an unstable, radiation emitting isotope: water- *hydrogen* plus neutron = 'heavy' water- *deuterium* plus neutron = 'heavy-(er)' water- *tritium*.... tritium minus beta particle- *electron* plus O2 = helium 3 plus 2 O *atomic oxygen*... 2 O plus 2 O2 = 2 O3 *ozone*. Perhaps this ozone is carcinogenic and perhaps beta particles emitted inside the lung are the thing. Food however would have to be contaminated with something... Vegetables raised as food are fed chemicals and pesticides, which may be carcinogenic, but nothing like that is likely to make it through the animal into its meat.

When I eat out, I ask the waiter to leave all teh veggies in the kitchen, as 'I hate to see food go to waste'. On arrival I may ask the bread dish be removed, but the butter left on the table I don't order any 'meat dish' type food, but rare beef, fried or roasted chicken, fish or soft eggs. I ask that they not put any salt on the meat (I will return overcooked and/or salted meat to the kitchen).

At 12 years into the path, I was sent to jail for 2 years. THAT was a challenge, not restaurants. Jails are like the military, the food is grease and starch based. At first I traded my veggies with other inmates who did not want meat (Black Muslims will not eat chicken or pork) and thus avoided carbs. I worked my way into the food service and was able to feed my self the way I wanted to. I traded my allowed purchase of cigarettes (2 cartons/wk) for a steak a day- separate from what I gave myself from the general food issue. I did very well indeed. Meat can be found everywhere except in a vegetarian restaurant- avoid these.

I do not recommend drinking artificially sweetened drinks like diet cola for eh simple reason that it maintains a taste and desire for sweet-tasting things, and if you do not reinforce this, it will fade away. After about 10 years on the diet I lost all interest in things 'bad'. Not that I ever was the sort who got 'sidetracked'. I seem to have a remarkable ability to focus 100% of my attention on something for hours to the exclusion of everything else in my environment. I was like this as a small child.

Of course females adopt socialisation more deeply than males, it is the female's role in human society to conserve and teach the 'rules of behaviour' The mother (not the father) teaches the child what to eat.

Loops- Disregard any other advice. Your 'problem' is due to your training, not your diet. The effect of carbs on a person who does not eat them could be just an effect from the 'insulin rush', which can act like a central nervous system stimulant, as seen in many children, and is the reason for the mistaken claim common in advertising that carbs are 'energy food'.

Muscles perform according to the training you give them. Swimming is a low resistance aerobic exercise, distance running is a medium to high resistance aerobic exercise, sprinting is a very high resistance anaerobic exercise. Swimming conditions only your lungs, control of breath and circulation and does not build strength, muscle tone or the kind of endurance which can be transferred to land based exercise. Swimming will stimulate the formation of a uniform layer of fat on your body to counter heat loss.

You can train for endurance (aerobic) or strength (anaerobic) Each uses a different modification of the basic muscle fibre. Each person has a mix of type 1 and type 2, or fast twitch, slow twitch. If you train as a marathoner, you suppress one and enhance the other- if you train as a sprinter, the reverse happens. It is an either/or situation. You cannot be at the same time both a marathoner and a sprinter- there is no free lunch. ALL muscle fibres use the same fuel, fast and slow both burn only fat. NO muscle fibre uses carbs. (Once more) glycogen is not used to do work, only ATP-ADP reduction is used, that is rebuilt by fat. Glycogen does not produce ATP. Glycogen is not depleted with exercise- this is proven and is in the literature. Opinions to the contrary are just repeating fairy tales from the past. Carb intake reduces strength/speed, and likewise reduces endurance/distance.

Do not worry about minerals and other trace nutrients, meat has them all in more than adequate amounts. Supplements, while not necessary are not going to hurt you unless you take them in excess. When I am at a dinner party, I am careful to pick out what I know is just meat and leave the rest, no matter what it is.

Humans have never eaten bones, we cannot digest them and it is a decidedly bad idea to try.

Woo's problem is eating too many carbs, no matter what 'reason' is used as an excuse. Hypoglycemia (low blood glucose) is caused by dietary carb intake. Glucose is stable and constant in a fasting state or in a fat-fed, zero carb, keto-adapted state.

I lift very heavy weights in very short intense workouts, I NEVER eat carbs. I always have heaps of energy. I ride my bike very fast over mountain tails for 30-45 minutes, I always have heaps of energy. Lifting weights has no effect on your glucose. Unless you have some sort of very bad disease or physical disorder, you must be eating sugar or starch in some form to cause your glucose level changes.

Liking veggies has EVERYTHING to do with you socialisation. Socialisation takes the place of (overrides) instinct, and seems to the person socialised to be 'natural and instinctive'- just as you assert. It is an illusion. I have seen some very creative attempts to justify liking/eating veggies in 47 years: this one is the very best so far. Really taking a stretch. Almost in the same box with the classic "it's your blood type".

Again (with feeling)...

Ice cream is: egg yolks, cream, non-lactose milk protein in water, vanilla extract and a tiny pinch of aspartame. For a 6 qt White Mt. churn: 16 yolks, 1.8 litres cream, 250 ml water with 2 heaping tablespoons of a mix of 3 parts calcium caseinate and one part ion exchange whey (not isolate) two tablespoons of high quality vanilla. You can spice it up by grinding up fresh vanilla bean. If you like coffee flavour, add three small cups of short-black espresso. Be careful not to run the machine too long or it will turn to butter.

Humans have classic insectivorous dentition. We have no 'grinding' molars like bovines. Our molars are bug-crushing, cannot grow, have unsealed groves which quickly admit bacteria, and thus cannot tolerate abrasion and carbohydrates- they wear away and rot. SOME carnivores need and have shearing teeth, (carnassals), Many animals both carnivores and omnivores as well as some frogs(!) and a deer- have long canines (tusks)- these are used always as display and fighting with some utility as holding tools. We have mouths for speech, and tusks are of no aid when you have knives.

Humans make and use knives- and have done so for ~4.5 million years. Enamel meant to wear grows continuously and is shaped in rolls, the layers separated by dentine, such as all ruminants have. Compared to rats and pigs, our teeth have a very thin and fragile enamel coat. Apes are very distant relations, and their teeth are not a good comparison. I am very well educated on anatomy and comparative anatomy. I am not telling stories, and I did not intend to teach ancient diets and I do not intend to lecture the group on body structures and purposes, but I do feel from time to time a need to clear up widespread misunderstandings of structure.

Where have you been? Gorillas proved sterile in captivity when fed on a total herbivorous diet- It was then discovered that in the wild they consume quantities of insects, principally wood-grubs and their massive back musculature is a specialisation to assist pulling the bark from trees to get at the bugs. Once the nature of the animal food acceptable to gorillas was known, zoos have been able properly feed, and to breed them successfully. With as many papers and studies on chimpanzee hunting/gathering behaviour, I am astounded that you do not understand their dietary habits. Then again, what gorillas and chimps eat is not relevant to human diet, which is what my thread is all about.

What is this term ' the meat and egg fast' supposed to mean? A 'fast' means (quite literally) going completely without food, i.e., not eating anything.

Yes, Dean, more myths. Chiropractors are good for putting your back in line, but are mostly charlatans and scams when it comes to everything else. This is why they receive no respect from medicine- most MD's will suffer long with a spinal displacement, rather than be seen visiting a chiro.

There are not four types, only two, fast and slow, and fast do have more mitochondria and can reprocess ADP to ATP faster than the slow ones, but both use only fatty acids. NO muscle fibre needs, or can use glucose. The following statement is the equivalent to describing a flying pig's wings:

"The aerobic fast-twitch fiber is really no longer a muscle, but a bag full of mitochondria with a few contractile fibers remaining. The mitochondria in this fiber are one-third the size of those in the aerobic slow-twitch fiber. These smaller mitochondria can only oxidize the components of glucose, not fatty acids or ketones as the larger mitochondria can". No such thing, I am afraid. Just because you can read something published somewhere does not mean it is true.

Note on cheese, also one of my faves, and something that I consume in every meal- it is VERY constipating if eaten in too high a quantity- this shows up very quickly (and hurts like hell.) Coffee is a good balancer for cheese, as (strong) coffee will give you the runs if taken in too high a quantity. NOTE- This only holds good for someone on a really low carb/zero carb, all meat diet. I think low-carb mixed-diet people (some posts) do not get either effect to any great extent. Since the whole focus of my case here is to elucidate the carnivore, many of you out there may not find some thing of any use in you efforts to find a normal body.

If you do not add sugar, whipped cream is the same as fresh pouring cream. It is quite tasty- I love it.
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  #564   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 06:49
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lynnp lynnp is offline
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Plan: My Version of M/E
Stats: 284/000/140 Female 65 inches
BF:54%/49.5%/25%
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Location: Rhode Island
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Gstout, her is Bears recipe:

Zero carb icecream

zero-carb ice cream with raw egg yolks, heavy cream, lactose-free milk protein and various flavours like vanilla and espresso. I use a very small amount of aspartame as a sweetener, since ice cream seems to need it. I have two sizes of White Mountain churn. Typical: 16 egg yolks, 2 litres heavy cream (35% mf), one cup water with two heaping tablespoons of a 3 to 1 mixture of calcium caseinate/ion exchange whey (or use lactose free 'total milk protein'- if you can find it), 1/4 teaspoon aspartame (Nutrasweet), three cups double short-black espresso, 2 tablespoon of high quality vanilla extract. Use a 6 qt churn with coarse salt and broken lump ice. Don't let the churn go too long, or it will turn to butter. You can skip the milk protein, but the texture will suffer.

Bear
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  #565   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 07:45
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ChicknLady ChicknLady is offline
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Plan: Low carb
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I'm curious if anyone here has any idea what sorts of "vegetables" were even in EXISTENCE a million years ago. Most fruits and vegetables that we enjoy (or not) today have been bred and hydridized for thousands of years, and have little resemblence to what originated them.

Alot people malign the feed-lot cow, but how different are our modern vegetables, bred for disease/insect resistance, taste, size, color, transportability etc... with little concern for maintaining it's nutritive content. Eat five servings a day, and what are you really placing in your body? (not to mention the chemicals and bacteria)

Except perhaps in more tropical regions, most of early humans did not live in a Garden of Eden with plums, fresh heads of broccoli, and Granny Smiths dripping from the trees. I'm sure in the brief berry season they would eat many berries, probably realizing that "eat lots of berries- get fatter- good thing". They were early humans- they weren't stupid. Maybe that's the reason our bodies were designed to store excess carbs as body fat- in the past most high-carb vegetation (berries, fruit, tubers) was available in the fall when our bodies might need an extra layer of fat. Bears do that before they hiberanate.

Berries are fruit are very seasonal, however, and I think we ate mostly animals, insects, and grubs, and only ate non-sweet vegetation like greens as a last resort. In nature, most vegetation is bitter, very low-calorie, and will not satisfy hunger- not attractive to most anyone. It's like our deer here in PA- in a hard winter they will herd up in sheltered areas and eat hemlock needles and twigs. It provides them almost no nutrition, but it's better to them than eating nothing.

I think people forget that there were very few vegetables that were palatable to humans when we were evolving. Try eating dandylion leaves- a typical wild green that would have been around in prehistoric times- as an example of what I'm trying to say.
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  #566   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 07:58
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LOOPS LOOPS is offline
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Plan: LCHF
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Progress: -29%
Location: LA SERENA, CHILE
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from what I understand cheese is full of calcium, and too high a calcium:magnesium ratio = constipation. Nuts, seeds and vegetables are full of magnesium, so maybe that is why some low-carbers get constipation if eating too much cheese and not many veggies?

In my experience, several things get things moving - magnesium tablets/solution, fish oil and making sure the diet is really high in fat.

I have read that animal fats are very much needed for absorption of minerals, but are in themselves not good sources (well, of magnesium in particular - they are very good sources of zinc and selenium for example). Also drinking water is probably a factor - if soft water is being drunk then more minerals from diet are needed.

Nutritiondata.com told me I would get around 100mg Mg a day from an all animal product diet. That seems very low. Calcium on the other hand can easily come out at nearly a gram with the addition of cheese.

I would obviously like to believe that we don't need any more Mg than this and that it is just fine to have low levels - but I've read too much stuff, and experienced too much pms/depression without extra Mg to buy into it all so easily.

You'll forgive my being a little doubtful bear - I don't mean to offend as I think it's good evidence you've done so well for so long 'all meat' - I just want to do the best thing for my bod.
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  #567   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 09:43
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Gstout Gstout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnp
Gstout, her is Bears recipe:

Zero carb icecream

zero-carb ice cream with raw egg yolks, heavy cream, lactose-free milk protein and various flavours like vanilla and espresso. I use a very small amount of aspartame as a sweetener, since ice cream seems to need it. I have two sizes of White Mountain churn. Typical: 16 egg yolks, 2 litres heavy cream (35% mf), one cup water with two heaping tablespoons of a 3 to 1 mixture of calcium caseinate/ion exchange whey (or use lactose free 'total milk protein'- if you can find it), 1/4 teaspoon aspartame (Nutrasweet), three cups double short-black espresso, 2 tablespoon of high quality vanilla extract. Use a 6 qt churn with coarse salt and broken lump ice. Don't let the churn go too long, or it will turn to butter. You can skip the milk protein, but the texture will suffer.

Bear




ty ty ty ty DANKE lynnp!!!!! I'm gonna' give this a try this sommer.
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  #568   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 09:47
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Gstout Gstout is offline
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Posts: 80
 
Plan: Steak & Beer
Stats: 212/193/165 Male 69 inches
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: SouthEast USA
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Well WEEK 3 is complete. Fitday estimated I would have burned 3.6 lbs. The scales reflected a 5lb loss. Not bad, it seems I dodged the week3 stall by going to 5carbs/day and eating 70% FAT. hmmmm, I thinking the 72 miles walked didn't hurt either! Woooooot! theBear is a 47 year proof that FAT works!
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  #569   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 09:52
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lynnp lynnp is offline
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Posts: 4,072
 
Plan: My Version of M/E
Stats: 284/000/140 Female 65 inches
BF:54%/49.5%/25%
Progress: 197%
Location: Rhode Island
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You are very welcome Gstout.
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  #570   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 11:13
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mae_west mae_west is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 426
 
Plan: keto/paleo with IF 18/6
Stats: 215.0/198.6/175 Female 68
BF:yes
Progress: 41%
Location: Kamloops, B.C. Canada
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I am not sure who coined the term "fast" in the meat and egg fast, but I think in our case it refers to adhering firmly or firmly loyal (adjective) as opposed to a non food fast (intransitive verb).
And yes, I was just over at the Merriam Webster site...

Anyway, it is just a name...
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