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  #1471   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 17:27
JandLsMom's Avatar
JandLsMom JandLsMom is offline
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Posts: 1,719
 
Plan: atkins induction
Stats: 330/330/165 Female 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Illinois
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Heres an interesting article...

Here is a small excerpt from the article..
The small-scale study - the first of its kind - of the bones of about 23 Neolithic people from ten sites in central and southern England, suggests that these `first farmers' relied heavily on animal meat for food, or on animal by-products such as milk and cheese, and that plant foods in fact formed little importance in their diet. The bones date from throughout the Neolithic, c 4100BC - c 2000BC.

For the full article go here http://www.biblelife.org/bone_analysis.htm
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  #1472   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 17:28
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,769
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JandLsMom
Posting this link for Dean so he doesnt accidentally kill his cat...
http://www.provet.co.uk/petfacts/healthtips/meat.htm

Also posting it because even though it talks about an all meat diet for pets, it makes you wonder about what it does to humans. The article is saying cats and dogs on an all meat diet dont get enough calcium so the calcium has to come from their OWN bones and they end up with leg fractures and such...now granted..they are much smaller than us...but still..by eating all meat are we pulling calcium from our bones...OR in Bears case is he getting his calcium from his cheese and cream..and that is ENOUGH??? If that is the case..then those that are trying his diet better BE SURE to eat cheese and cream also! See what i am saying here?? This is a short article so please read it and comment!! thanks!
The Provet information sounds like hearsay. Vets see lots of animals with broken bones. Most are not on all-meat diets. The bit about having to take calcium from the bones is the same stuff that is being spouted by anti-low carbers.
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  #1473   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 17:32
JandLsMom's Avatar
JandLsMom JandLsMom is offline
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Posts: 1,719
 
Plan: atkins induction
Stats: 330/330/165 Female 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Illinois
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And from the same site another SHORT but interesting article

The 7,700-year-old Woman Who Ate Like a Wolf
http://www.biblelife.org/woman7700.htm
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  #1474   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 17:42
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JandLsMom
Posting this link for Dean so he doesnt accidentally kill his cat...
http://www.provet.co.uk/petfacts/healthtips/meat.htm

Also posting it because even though it talks about an all meat diet for pets, it makes you wonder about what it does to humans. The article is saying cats and dogs on an all meat diet dont get enough calcium so the calcium has to come from their OWN bones and they end up with leg fractures and such...now granted..they are much smaller than us...but still..by eating all meat are we pulling calcium from our bones...OR in Bears case is he getting his calcium from his cheese and cream..and that is ENOUGH??? If that is the case..then those that are trying his diet better BE SURE to eat cheese and cream also! See what i am saying here?? This is a short article so please read it and comment!! thanks!
Karen,

Really... you worry too much!
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  #1475   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 17:54
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Hey, Nancy,

I see that you just went over 10,000 posts, and therefore got a new "Meat Point"... looks like a hunter using a bow and arrow... or is that some sort of vegetable in his hand?
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  #1476   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 17:58
LOOPS's Avatar
LOOPS LOOPS is offline
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Posts: 3,225
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 74/76/67 Female 5ft 6.5 inches
BF:29/31/25
Progress: -29%
Location: LA SERENA, CHILE
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bit of broccoli anyone?
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  #1477   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 17:59
LOOPS's Avatar
LOOPS LOOPS is offline
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Posts: 3,225
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 74/76/67 Female 5ft 6.5 inches
BF:29/31/25
Progress: -29%
Location: LA SERENA, CHILE
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oh sorry, I think I'm on the wrong thread.
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  #1478   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 18:02
JandLsMom's Avatar
JandLsMom JandLsMom is offline
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Posts: 1,719
 
Plan: atkins induction
Stats: 330/330/165 Female 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Illinois
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And yet another interesting article about the Aborigines and what they eat (or did in the past)!
http://www.price-pottenger.org/Articles/Aborigines.htm
You will see they eat insects and flowers as well as meat, eggs, vegetables, tubers and berries (not saying that it means our great great ancestors didnt eat all meat..but it does make ya think..especially when they talk about the aborigines PERFECT teeth and health!! (maybe paleo is the best way to eat after all?) Sorry Bear, but i am a researcher..i like to see things from all perspectives!! I am on day 9 of your diet and i do FEEL really great, i will admit..but i MISS my veggies, nuts and fruits man!! (ok..ill admit it..i just ate a TB of natural peanut butter..and damn was it good!! lol). Sorry...just throwing other perspectives out there!! I have to! Its just me!! And maybe it is my acculturation too! After all Bear..ya did say that most of us could never adapt your diet for life..I think you are probably right. I will be lucky if i make it 2 full weeks...well in fact, i havent cuz i just ate peanut butter..lol (and one cup of veggies sunday night)....so i cant seem to do this WOE 100%...my mind won't seem to let me..
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  #1479   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 18:02
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOOPS
oh sorry, I think I'm on the wrong thread.

If you've come to feed your cats vegetables... you've come to the right place!
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  #1480   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 18:03
JandLsMom's Avatar
JandLsMom JandLsMom is offline
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Posts: 1,719
 
Plan: atkins induction
Stats: 330/330/165 Female 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Illinois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleoDeano
Karen,

Really... you worry too much!


yes i do Dean..i cant help myself..im a worrier..i dont want anyone to hurt themself or kill their pet ...
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  #1481   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 18:03
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JandLsMom
i dont want anyone to hurt themself or kill their pet ...
Well, I must say, you have your work cut out for you then!

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Wed, Apr-05-06 at 18:11.
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  #1482   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 18:11
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Whoa182 Whoa182 is offline
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Posts: 1,770
 
Plan: CRON / Zone
Stats: 118/110/110 Male 5ft 7"
BF:very low
Progress: 100%
Location: Cardiff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleoDeano
If you've come to feed your cats vegetables... you've come to the right place!


My dog loves some vegetables, is that normal
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  #1483   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 18:13
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoa182
My dog loves some vegetables, is that normal
Seeing that it's your dog... actually, yes!
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  #1484   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 18:24
Terranova
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If you woke up on on a deserted island, and didn't recognize any of the animals or vegetation, what would you eat?

Seems to me the safest choice is meat of some kind, given the relatively high chance that the vegetation is poisonous. Just watching what plants other animals eat may not be enough- deers eat poison oak-- so that aint gonna work.

Does this support that a carnivorous diet is the "real human diet"? Sure. We do like to fancy ourselves the most evolved beings on the planet, do we not? LOL We might be able to gain sustenance, even thrive on a vegan diet, but I gotta go with accepting my position at the top of the food chain as a wise but sassy carnivore-- let them animals eat cake!

Even if I do love Asparagus! LOL

HEY Cats eat grass at times, but I doubt many would argue they are not true carnivores. =P

in good humor,

ALOHA!
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  #1485   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-06, 18:25
theBear theBear is offline
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Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
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Worrying WILL shorten you life.

SCC of the tonsil is NOT diet-related. My heart problems were CAUSED by my HIGH CARB childhood/teen years- the only reason I did not need a quadruple by age 39 IS my present diet. MY blood glucose is NOT 'borderline diabetic', it is within normal variation. Why make such inaccurate and meaningless statements? All it does is show off your ignorance.

I advise all readers to ignore posts by yakuma.

Unfortunately he has not used his space to post a single thing of value, just constantly presenting his personal myths, falsehoods and fantasies. For your information, 'insulin resistance', or type 2 diabetes, comes from the bodies reaction to the presence of excessive and continuously high levels of insulin, not the absence of it- it is one of the body's two methods of dealing with this damaging hormone, the other way leads to type 1- the destruction by the immune system of the insulin-secretory cells in the pancreas. Diabetes is NOT a 'disease', NO other animal has it, except for the carnivorous pets humans keep and feed on grain based (dry) pet foods.

How can anyone claim this diet is 'harmful in the long run' without any way to know that or to 'prove it' since this seems to be the objection to 47 years of experience, since millions of people lived on it for generations with perfect health (Inuit) and all the 'westerners' who followed and were studied, were likewise in perfect health. Stefansson did NOT follow 'his' diet for more than a few years as a time, returning to it only very late. Stroke is the result of both a genetic weakness in the arterial system and hardening of the arteries (insulin damage).

'... I'm so messed up...'

Yes, mate you are certainly 'messed up'- bigtime.

Meat alone has ALL the nutrients you need, vitamins, minerals etc. Trust me, (or read the thread) you do not need any sort of vegetation. The polar bear is an obligate carnivore. My nick dates from my teens and was due to growing my chest hair at 17- the kids said I was turning into a... bear. Other bears (which hibernate), are opportunistic feeders, like many canids, rather than true omnivores like rats and pigs.

I said that vitamin C is NOT the ONLY thing which prevents scurvy. Less C means less carbs. Meat does contain sufficient folic, the amount needed for health is measured in micrograms. Eggs cream and cheese do not have enough A to provide the amount needed by an adult, unless you eat really massive amounts- unlikely. Serotonin is not the cause opr cure for insomnia. Try taking melatonin before going to bed, an amount somewhere between 1 and 10 mg should do the trick.

All raw meat is tender- cooking makes some cuts tough, keep it to a minimum, just sear the outside in fat in a hot pan.

What's the deal with wanting to do all these wasteful, useless 'tests'? ... A dragster sets a record in the 1/4 mile, but someone wants to 'measure the adhesion coefficient' of the tires?

Insulin is a dangerous (necessary to deal with excess glucose) and body damaging hormone. I have posted the reference to a paper which shows just how damaging it is. READ IT!

Your are both body and mind. The body LOVES raw meat, the mind has been taught it is not good. People from families who overcook meat usually do not like it very much, and eat it infrequently.

Yes, finish the thread, you will discover that gluconeogenesis never takes place except under very specific circumstances, such as long fasting and starvation.

Protein cannot and must not be the 'major macro nutrient', fat must be. High protein intake is very toxic.

The beginning of the neolithic period (agriculture/grain) saw peoples bodies deteriorate to an alarming degree, no teeth weak deformed bones etc, and until very recent times, deficiency diseases were rampant. Our need for most of the various trace nutrients such as vitamins was not identified until around one hundred years ago. The ancient early paleolithic people and the Inuit (hunters/carnivorous people) left beautiful, sturdy corpses with all their teeth and strong bones.

One month is NOT enough time, even Stefansson found he and his associates needed six months to adjust to the all meat regime. I say, after a full year your acculturation will have faded, and if you can get to ten years you will probably never go back to a mixed diet. A month or ever three will NOT make a difference, that is just 'dieting'- you will regain all the weight and more once you begin eating according to your habits and 'cravings'. The carnivorous regime MUST become a permanent lifestyle to succeed. Your dietary acculturation is VERY deeply embedded and powerful, don't EVER underestimate it.

So Mister 'anorexia' thinks we need some 'tests' also? Why am I laughing?

My 'attitude'? I hate BS- if that is an 'attitude', so be it.

"#1) I could. Not. Crap. Not to save my life. It was awful. By the end I was crying daily—the pain was so bad. I tried everything. My body failed to regulate.
#2) I had TERRIBLE blood curdling dreams at this carb level. I could not sleep. I was anxious.
#3) I could not exercise. At all. If I lifted (which I love) I would grow so dizzy that I would fall over."

There is a term, 'psychosomatic illness' which describes anomalous responses to normal things, like being constipated on a high fat, zero carb diet and having bad dreams, which of course are strictly psychological anyway. Childhood acculturation is, in some individuals, so deep and intense that any deviation from the training is seen as 'life threatening' and the mind fights it with everything it has. Not to worry, this is very unusual, I doubt many people would have a reaction anything like this, it is the first I have heard of and I have spoken to many thousands of people about carnivorous diets and their experiences..

Historically there were few fruits, all our present tree fruits are highly cultivated, therefore early people could not 'stand under a fruit tree like we can. In any event, no residues of plant-sourced foods have been found in any of the early paleolithic digs, so if fruit was consumed, it was done at the place it was found.

"take nothing but a spear"... PLUS a lifetime of practice in using it to feed your self and your tribe, in the company of a group of likewise highly skilled hunters.... Come on people, get used to the fact moderns have NO CLUE what an evolved hunting society in an age of plentiful prey animals is like. Lets cut the nonsense, shall we?

By 7 months a considerable degree of training in 'food taste' may have been accomplished. However, a baby does not have the gastric ability to digest any vegetable matter until about age 2. The usual result of feeding infants this way is commonly called 'colic'.

Inuit live under extreme conditions an d food is sometimes very hard to find, leading to sever bouts of starvation, which is very body damaging. Arctic carnivores are all heavily infested with trichina parasites, and people must kill and eat every animal they can, even foxes and polar bear, thus they had heavy infestations as well. Accidents likewise cause considerable aging effects. An Inuit who avoided all these could live into their late 90's in excellent health. Many autopsies were done on Inuit who died while living the traditional way, there are massive amounts of data available for those who are interested in pursuing this.

George Burns smoked cigars daily, and drank hard liquor all his life and lived to be 100. So what?

I had some 'health crises', which I have described, along with the causes- however I survived my treatment very well indeed, and that was DUE to my excellent fitness and bodily strength. Which continues.

Actually, Dean, the brain's requirement for glucose is nearly 100% covered by the 'ketone bodies' which are produced during fat metabolism, and NO gluconeogenesis will take place on a high fat diet... period. Gluconeogenesis is a fasting process that only begins after the point where there are NO more ketones OR glycogen available. The body always spares protein, and it is only under severe conditions that protein is ripped apart for the glucose spine it contains.

Ok, the attitude of the mum rules the response of her babies to food and everything, with the rare exception of a very strong-willed child. Okinawans, like all Japanese people eat LOTS of fish and rice, rather than vegetables, they do not differ greatly from other Japanese, except for the ratio of fish availability to population demand makes more fish available to them, cheaper.

The QUANTITY of calcium in red meat tissues appears small, but it is many, many times more available than ANY other source which are very, very poorly absorbed and utilised- the one exception being hydroxyapatite (bone), which is about 1/6th as good as muscle-calcium. Therefore if you eat at least 8 ounces of meat (of any kind, but red is best), per day, you have as much calcium as your body needs. I NEVER take calcium supplements, and I have not always eaten much cheese (still don't, it is too binding), and cream is not a reasonable source of calcium- it has only traces, yet I have VERY dense, strong bones. Inuit ate only the muscle tissues of animals and yet they had THE MOST thick, dense bones and skulls of any human group. Domestic cats and dogs are both known for eating bones, so they may not be as adept as we are in utilising muscle-sourced calcium. Calcium is critical to the work-processes in muscle tissues, and therefore is always present..

Last edited by theBear : Wed, Apr-05-06 at 18:27. Reason: err
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