Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > LC Research/Media
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16   ^
Old Tue, Nov-10-09, 12:40
costello22's Avatar
costello22 costello22 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,544
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 265.4/238.8/199 Female 5'5.5"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Right, you're giving credit to the exercise. But the thing is it could be a lot of reasons why you're doing better than your sister, including ones you have no control over.


I agree. My mom will be 80 next June, and she's in amazing shape. Of course, she's active and it's tempting to credit that. But maybe she's active because she's in great shape rather than vice versa. She's made a lot of friends on her hiking/walking trips. Almost all of them have stopped taking the trips due to poor health. Up until the poor health, they too were active older adults.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #17   ^
Old Tue, Nov-10-09, 13:53
Altari Altari is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 736
 
Plan: Meats & Veggies
Stats: 255/167/160 Female 66 inches
BF:??/36%/25%
Progress: 93%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jschwab
I think the problem is that what people call exercise today was just "life" not too long ago KWIM?

Needs to be repeated. People just don't move anymore. Why go for a walk outside when you can stroll through the park on WiiFit? Why trim your tree when you can pay someone a pittance to do it for you?
Reply With Quote
  #18   ^
Old Tue, Nov-10-09, 14:05
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,378
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 76%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilary M
The question of "does exercise help our health" is a totally different one than "does exercise help us lose weight." I'm not at all convinced that exercise — cardio or weight-training or anything else — is helpful for losing pounds. But I AM convinced that various forms of exercise have health benefits that might be unrelated to losing weight. We have all been around the block enough to know that "health" and "thin" aren't the same thing.


Exactly, but I don't think the article draws enough of a point on that.
Reply With Quote
  #19   ^
Old Tue, Nov-10-09, 14:18
Rocketguy Rocketguy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 197
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 245/193/170 Male 67 inches
BF:
Progress:
Default More on "Gina Kolata" article, or was it "Taubes Article"

I thought I recognized something direct from Taubes in Kolata's article....and here it is.


Source of Taubes writing:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandst...being.features1

Date/Place/introduction

Quote:


We can't work it out

We all know exercise helps you lose weight. But does it? There is almost no scientific evidence to support the orthodoxy. Indeed, it could even do the exact opposite... Gary Taubes weighs up the facts and takes a controversial look at why the gym is not going to fix it


* Gary Taubes
* The Observer, Sunday 28 October 2007

* Article history




The long Taubes version of the Kolata Quote:

Quote:
The one thing that might be said with certainty about exercise is that it tends to make us hungry. Maybe not immediately, but eventually. Burn more calories and the odds are very good that we'll consume more as well. And this simple fact alone might explain both the scientific evidence and a nation's worth of sorely disappointing anecdotal experience.

It's difficult to get health authorities to talk about the disconnection between their official recommendations and the scientific evidence that underlies it because they want to encourage us to exercise, even if their primary reason for doing so is highly debatable. Steve Blair, for instance, a University of South Carolina exercise scientist, says he was 'short, fat, and bald' when he started running in his thirties and he is short, fatter and balder now, at age 68. In the intervening years, he estimates, he has run close to 80,000 miles and gained about 30lb.

When I asked Blair whether he thought he might be leaner had he run even more, he had to think about it. 'I don't see how I could have been more active,' he said. 'Thirty years ago, I was running 50 miles a week. I had no time to do more. But if I could have gone out over the last couple of decades for two to three hours a day, maybe I would not have gained this weight.'

And maybe he would have anyway. There is little reason to believe the amount he runs makes any difference. Nonetheless, Blair personally believes he would be fatter still if he hadn't been running. Why?

There was a time when virtually no one believed exercise would help a person lose weight. Until the Sixties, clinicians who treated obese and overweight patients dismissed the notion as naive. When Russell Wilder, an obesity and diabetes specialist at the Mayo Clinic, lectured on obesity in 1932, he said his fat patients tended to lose more weight with bed rest, 'while unusually strenuous physical exercise slows the rate of loss'.



The short Kolata quote:

Quote:
Exercise alone, in the absence of weight loss, has not been shown to reduce blood pressure. Nor does it make much difference in cholesterol levels. Weight loss can lower blood pressure and cholesterol levels, but if you want to lose weight, you have to diet as well as exercise. Exercise alone has not been shown to bring sustained weight loss.Just ask Steven Blair, an exercise researcher at the University of South Carolina. He runs every day and even runs marathons. But, he adds, “I was short, fat and bald when I started running, and I’m still short, fat and bald. Weight control is difficult for me. I fight the losing battle.”

The difficulty, Dr. Blair says, is that it’s much easier to eat 1,000 calories than to burn off 1,000 calories with exercise. As he relates, “An old football coach used to say, ‘I have all my assistants running five miles a day, but they eat 10 miles a day.’”


I had no luck tracing Jack Wilmore to Taubes.

Quote from Strengthnill.net forum
http://www.strengthmill.net/forum/a...php?t-2723.html

Quote:

Manuel
10-05-2008, 11:18 AM
"And what about weight loss? Lifting weights builds muscles but will not make you burn more calories. The muscle you gain is minuscule compared with the total amount of skeletal muscle in the body. And muscle has a very low metabolic rate when it’s at rest. (You can’t flex your biceps all the time.)

Jack Wilmore, an exercise physiologist at Texas A & M University, calculated that the average amount of muscle that men gained after a serious 12-week weight-lifting program was 2 kilograms, or 4.4 pounds. That added muscle would increase the metabolic rate by only 24 calories a day."



Gina's text quoted... NY Times November 10, 2009

Quote:
Jack Wilmore, an exercise physiologist at Texas A & M University, calculated that the average amount of muscle that men gained after a serious 12-week weight-lifting program was 2 kilograms, or 4.4 pounds. That added muscle would increase the metabolic rate by only 24 calories a day.
Reply With Quote
  #20   ^
Old Tue, Nov-10-09, 15:23
mathmaniac mathmaniac is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 6,639
 
Plan: Wingin' it.
Stats: 257/240.0/130 Female 65 inches
BF:yes!
Progress: 13%
Location: U.S.A.
Smile

'Exercise alone has not been shown to bring sustained weight loss.Just ask Steven Blair, an exercise researcher'
The stats for 'diet alone' aren't great either. Why not just say you need both exercise and diet?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education...thandwellbeing1
Reply With Quote
  #21   ^
Old Tue, Nov-10-09, 16:16
LilithD's Avatar
LilithD LilithD is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 602
 
Plan: paleo/atkins
Stats: 134/134/127 Female 172
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: New Zealand
Default

OK, maybe it's not a great fat-loss aid, but excercise is soo important for many reasons.

Aerobic: I get quite depressed without a daily walk (or aerobic workout in bad weather). Sometimes I have to force myself, but within 5 minutes out the door, I cheer up and feel better for the rest of the day. Just half an hour brisk walking is enough to achieve that. But running would damage my joints too much I think in the long term.

And my shape (I'm 44 now, but my shape no worse than the students half my age I'm currently studying with) is due to some weight lifting and Callanetics - ie building and stretching muscles enough to keep them as I age. I hope this will also keep my bones strong.

Plus facial exercise - I'm generally taken for early 30s - keeping the facial muscles plump and high does help.
Reply With Quote
  #22   ^
Old Tue, Nov-10-09, 17:25
LMMS's Avatar
LMMS LMMS is offline
What a good girl!!!
Posts: 2,852
 
Plan: my own
Stats: 195.8/165.0/138 Female 62.5 inches
BF:Getting Rid of IT!
Progress: 53%
Location: Chicago suburbs
Default

I agree that exercise alone probably isn't going to make you lose weight but I don't agree about cholesterol.

I had a very low HDL. So low it worried my doctor. I took omega-3 Fish oil, she put me on prescription fish oil and no change. I joined a fitness group and in 5 months it went up considerably. I am in the normal range. I have never been there before even when doing Atkins. Now having more carbs, my cholesterol has never been better. Of course there could be another explanation for this but exercise was the huge thing that I added. I do cardio, weights, and circuit training 1 hour, 3 times per week.

After getting that score on the lipids I also now included parking far away from where I am going, taking stairs when ever possible, making my dog run on her walks, things like that.

I agree, what used to be life is now called "exercise". We stop doing all the things we used to when we can get someone else to do it for us. I don't even think it is laziness as much as just what we get used to.

This exercise has also helped my stress levels, and sleep. Sleep was a huge one. I also feel so good about myself afterward. These could also be attributed to something else but exercise was the one big change I made.

Lisa
Reply With Quote
  #23   ^
Old Tue, Nov-10-09, 17:30
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,865
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

I suspect they mean exercise won't lower your LDL. The media is rarely concerned with any number but LDL.
Reply With Quote
  #24   ^
Old Tue, Nov-10-09, 22:27
Zei Zei is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,596
 
Plan: Carb reduction in general
Stats: 230/185/180 Female 5 ft 9 in
BF:
Progress: 90%
Location: Texas
Default

Exercise hasn't done a thing to help me lose any weight or prevent gaining unwanted fat, although if I didn't exercise I might gain even more because I've seen my weight go up in the past when I quit my fitness program for a time. So I don't expect weight loss as a result nowdays and instead exercise (aerobic, wind sprints, weights) for other reasons--to feel good, hopefully help control my blood sugars, be able to move heavy things, mow my grass, etc. without getting tired or injured. I've actually cut down on the length of time I spend on exercise since discovering it won't make me thin and focus on doing just enough to gain the other benefits.
Reply With Quote
  #25   ^
Old Wed, Nov-11-09, 09:53
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,498
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Default

If exercise kept us healthy, there would be more healthy people, obviously. Because, well, there's more people doing exercise than ever. 2/3 of US adults obese isn't more healthy people. But is there really more people doing exercise? Or are people really doing more exercise? I think not. If they were not at the gym, they'd be elsewhere, doing something else, probably just as extenuating. But surely, they'd be doing something much more fun. But hold on, isn't exercise supposed to be boring and hard and painful and exhausting? And isn't that the quality that makes exercise productive? Or maybe it's just that if we believe strongly enough and if we repeat the mantra often enough and if we hire the best PT and buy the latest gym gear and supplements, it's going to work?

Do what you must. Must you do exercise?
Reply With Quote
  #26   ^
Old Wed, Nov-11-09, 10:00
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,378
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 76%
Default

Just a note on exercise and lack thereof. There was a transit strike last week in Philly. Mostly I avoided the crowded trains, but one day I had the babies and couldn't have them walk the 3.5 miles home so we took the overcrowded miserable regional train (everybody was crammed because buses and trollies were shut down). There were college students with backpacks and sneakers on who chose to deal with the hassle of an overcrowded, late train rather than walk the 10 blocks between 19th Street and 30th Street. I was shocked. But I shouldn't be, because that's the way it is.
Reply With Quote
  #27   ^
Old Wed, Nov-11-09, 12:18
LMMS's Avatar
LMMS LMMS is offline
What a good girl!!!
Posts: 2,852
 
Plan: my own
Stats: 195.8/165.0/138 Female 62.5 inches
BF:Getting Rid of IT!
Progress: 53%
Location: Chicago suburbs
Default

I have so much fun working out. I go to a gym and have the trainer and the latest equipment but it is a group and we just love it or we wouldn't keep signing up for it.

I have belonged to a gym for years but I actually thought I was working out but had not idea that I was running in circles. I didn't take into consideration my heart rate and what I burn doing exercises. I didn't understand what I burned after the exercise. I just ran on a treadmill or elliptical and lifted some weights. I found I was going over my anaerobic threshold and not doing as much for myself. I am so happy that I found out how to work out smart and not just kill myself going faster or harder or what ever I was doing before I decided to get educated on exercise.

But moving is moving and moving is better than sitting. So anything is better than nothing. Use it or lose it really is the key. I feel stronger than when I was in my 20s and I am 40 now. I love exercising and I wish I felt like this years ago when I was just going through the motions.

I would eat less and exercise more. Now I do the opposite. I look at my pictures posted here and can't believe I am about the same weight but it looks so different and those clothes don't fit me anymore because exercise transformed my body. But I really started it just for my lipids. It was HDL, not any LDL problem that I had.

HDL can be raised by niacin and fish oil but not for me. They didn't work. The only other way is exercise. That was my experiment. Would it work??? That fact that it worked is great but the other benefits I got out of it are priceless.
Reply With Quote
  #28   ^
Old Wed, Nov-11-09, 12:20
AJCole AJCole is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 199
 
Plan: protien power
Stats: 185/155/135 Female 64"
BF:
Progress:
Default

I'm with Hilary and Nancy on this one. Exercise is important for a lot of reasons, but not for weight loss. So many people say, anecdotally, '100 years ago, people were a lot more active'. But that doesn't take into account the exercise culture we live in. Exercise is good and should be enjoyed, but it isn't a panacea.
Reply With Quote
  #29   ^
Old Wed, Nov-11-09, 15:25
kdill kdill is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 44
 
Plan: Zone Good Enough
Stats: 223/194/185 Male 68 inches
BF:
Progress: 76%
Location: Maryland
Default

While the benefits of exercise on health may be hard to prove, there is evidence that being a couch potato is bad.

Sitting time and mortality from all causes, cardiovascular disease, and cancer.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...8?dopt=Abstract

What evidence there is in favor of exercise generally supports not being sedentary, but beyond that it gets a bit sketchy.
Reply With Quote
  #30   ^
Old Wed, Nov-11-09, 15:46
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,865
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

I just posted a study from a week or so back that couch potatoes had much better mortality rates than marathon runners.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 20:10.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.