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  #106   ^
Old Tue, Aug-10-10, 13:46
TheCaveman's Avatar
TheCaveman TheCaveman is offline
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Plan: Angry Paleo
Stats: 375/205/180 Male 6'3"
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Location: Sacramento, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtor
But who is "we"? There will always be people who do not agree and so no advice would ever be given again.

Patrick, I want you to find me someone who thinks soda is healthy.
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  #107   ^
Old Tue, Aug-10-10, 13:57
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
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Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCaveman
Patrick, I want you to find me someone who thinks soda is healthy.
The moderation people think you can have soda in moderation in the full context of a healthy diet.
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  #108   ^
Old Tue, Aug-10-10, 13:59
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TheCaveman TheCaveman is offline
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Posts: 1,429
 
Plan: Angry Paleo
Stats: 375/205/180 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Sacramento, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seejay
The moderation people think you can have soda in moderation in the full context of a healthy diet.

I notice you're unable to find someone who thinks soda is healthy.
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  #109   ^
Old Tue, Aug-10-10, 14:03
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Valtor Valtor is offline
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Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
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Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCaveman
Patrick, I want you to find me someone who thinks soda is healthy.

There you go. Have you ever heard of Dr Ray Peat, Ph.D. in Biology? The guy says that Coca Cola and Ice Cream are much healthier than whole grains, which isn't saying much but still.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/glycemia.shtml
Some quotes...
Quote:
so this means that eating ordinary sugar, sucrose (a disaccharide, consisting of glucose and fructose), in place of starch, will reduce the tendency to store fat. Eating “complex carbohydrates,” rather than sugars, is a reasonable way to promote obesity.
Quote:
Orange juice and sucrose have a lower glycemic index than starch or whole wheat or white bread, but it is common for dietitians to argue against the use of orange juice, because its index is the same as that of Coca Cola. But, if the glycemic index is very important, to be rational they would have to argue that Coke or orange juice should be substituted for white bread.
Quote:
The protective effects of sugar...are now being widely recognized, in every field of physiology...
Patrick
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  #110   ^
Old Tue, Aug-10-10, 14:08
TheCaveman's Avatar
TheCaveman TheCaveman is offline
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Posts: 1,429
 
Plan: Angry Paleo
Stats: 375/205/180 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Sacramento, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtor
The guy says that Coca Cola and Ice Cream are much healthier than whole grains, which isn't saying much but still.

You all can reprase my question as much as you'd like so that I'm wrong on a question I never asked. But.

If we asked Ray Peat: "Is soda healthy?"
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  #111   ^
Old Tue, Aug-10-10, 14:17
Valtor's Avatar
Valtor Valtor is offline
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Posts: 2,036
 
Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCaveman
You all can reprase my question as much as you'd like so that I'm wrong on a question I never asked. But.

If we asked Ray Peat: "Is soda healthy?"

He actually advocates club soda. Does that count ?

Patrick
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  #112   ^
Old Tue, Aug-10-10, 15:08
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Seejay Seejay is offline
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Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
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Progress: 8%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCaveman
I notice you're unable to find someone who thinks soda is healthy.
The Chill Beverage Company.
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  #113   ^
Old Wed, Aug-11-10, 08:33
TheCaveman's Avatar
TheCaveman TheCaveman is offline
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Posts: 1,429
 
Plan: Angry Paleo
Stats: 375/205/180 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Sacramento, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seejay
The Chill Beverage Company.

Actually, the website for this company says that soda is unhealthy.

For those that are straining to understand my point--and since I have be accused of occasional obtuseness--the conversation went like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by costello22
stop issuing public health advice until we're pretty sure we've got it right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtor
There will always be people who do not agree and so no advice would ever be given again.

I've heard of the Tyranny of the Majority, and I've heard of Tyranny of the Minority, but there is no catchy phrase like Tyranny of the One. Because Tyranny of the One already has a name. It's called "tyranny".

If a single company can adjudge its own product healthy, and that means it's healthy, over the objection of everyone else, then that's what I would call tyranny. It means that everything is healthy. (Stop me when this sounds enough like a market economy for you.)

Cigarette makers are the only ones who maintain that cigarettes are healthy. That doesn't make them healthy, and science and public policy have proved that they aren't healthy.

There is only one that thinks that Coca-Cola is healthy. Everyone else says it's unhealthy. Currently the vote is about 300 million for unhealthy, and one for healthy.

So, I'll assert that a vote of 300 million to one is conclusive. The people say "unhealthy", and one corporation says "healthy". So it is officially healthy.
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  #114   ^
Old Wed, Aug-11-10, 11:19
Valtor's Avatar
Valtor Valtor is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,036
 
Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCaveman
Actually, the website for this company says that soda is unhealthy.

For those that are straining to understand my point--and since I have be accused of occasional obtuseness--the conversation went like this:



I've heard of the Tyranny of the Majority, and I've heard of Tyranny of the Minority, but there is no catchy phrase like Tyranny of the One. Because Tyranny of the One already has a name. It's called "tyranny".

If a single company can adjudge its own product healthy, and that means it's healthy, over the objection of everyone else, then that's what I would call tyranny. It means that everything is healthy. (Stop me when this sounds enough like a market economy for you.)

Cigarette makers are the only ones who maintain that cigarettes are healthy. That doesn't make them healthy, and science and public policy have proved that they aren't healthy.

There is only one that thinks that Coca-Cola is healthy. Everyone else says it's unhealthy. Currently the vote is about 300 million for unhealthy, and one for healthy.

So, I'll assert that a vote of 300 million to one is conclusive. The people say "unhealthy", and one corporation says "healthy". So it is officially healthy.

You are in fact answering this question: "But who is we?". My point with this question was that the "we" that will figure out what is healthy and what isn't should be clearly defined. If I understand what you are saying, "we" would be everyone and a simple majority would be required to elect something as healthy or not. Right now in Canada, "we" seems to be a comity of "experts" and they alone decides what our policies will consider healthy or not. I think I like your way better.

Some interesting trend can be seen here: http://www4.agr.gc.ca/AAFC-AAC/disp...862291&lang=eng

Of course I am not saying that this comity believes soft drink to be healthy.
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/securi...cbg-faq-eng.php
Quote:
Health Canada encourages Canadians in general to moderate their daily caffeine intakes and to avoid elevated levels of consumption. Indeed, Eating Well with Canada's Food Guide recommends that Canadians drink water as their beverage of choice and look for other healthy beverage options, such as milk, fortified soy beverages or 100 per cent juices. Consumption of other beverages, including soft drinks, should be limited.

At this point, I don't remember why we are having this talk about soft drinks?

Patrick
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