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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Feb-11-09, 12:37
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
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Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
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Location: Philadelphia
Default Beef stock

I tried to make beef stock again recently. I don't do it very often because Wifey hates the smell. The Nourishing Traditions recipe is very complicated and I never seem to have all the different kinds of bones they call for.

So last time I put in a couple of very large shanks, but one of them was actually a joint end. I also added a bunch of onions, some carrot and a good deal of parsnip. The parsnip made it smell and taste very sweet, but the sweetness actually kind of overpowered the flavor.

I have to say, I've never made a beef stock whose flavor I really liked. I like my steak and pork chops with sauce made from chicken stock better. This last stock smelled really good at the beginning, and the meat and marrow were very tasty when I took them out after 36 hours or so, but I just didn't like the sauces I made with it.

Does anyone have suggestions for better beef stock? I just heard that it has lots of magnesium - I could definitely use that!
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Feb-11-09, 13:10
NANCI B's Avatar
NANCI B NANCI B is offline
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Plan: atkins
Stats: 250/196/140 Female 66 inches
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My son used to work at a steak house that roasted their prime rim on the bone and served it off the bone. They used to pitch the bones......My son asked me if I wanted some bones and of course I said yes. He brought over 2-5 gallon buckets full of rib bones. I took 1 can of tomato paste and diluted it ith about a cup of water and poured this over the bones. I then spread them out onto a cookie sheet that had some onion and celery and carrot chunked up...Roast the bones in a 300 deg oven until browned. Then put the lot into a large stock pot and cover with cold water and boil at least 4 hours. Season with salt and pepper at this time. Strain and freeze or do like I did and can it. I did not find it too sweet and was very good just to have a cup of stock. I also used it as a base for my veg beef soup....very rich.

my son no longer works for this restaurant.........alas.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Feb-11-09, 13:17
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
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Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
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What's the significance of roasting the bones before stewing them? I sometimes skip that step because I only have a few minutes every day to work on the stock. But if I knew why it was important, I'd be more motivated to do it.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Feb-11-09, 13:24
NANCI B's Avatar
NANCI B NANCI B is offline
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Plan: atkins
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The roasting of the bones gives it a richer deeper flavor and color than not roasting them. It is a beautiful brown when roasted and kind of gray just boiled. adding the tomato past helps the bones to caramelize.......It is beautiful and tasty.
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Feb-11-09, 13:53
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awriter awriter is offline
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Plan: Kwasniewski Ratios
Stats: 225/158/145 Female 65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capmikee
Does anyone have suggestions for better beef stock?

What Nanci B said in her two posts. Only difference I'd make is rubbing the tomato paste directly on the bones rather than diluting them with water, and baking at 400 (for a shorter time) rather than at 300. Both changes will result in deeper, even richer flavor with great caramelization.

Also - lose the parsnips and carrots. They're great for chicken broth, but a bit too sweet for beef broth. A small red onion would be great. Onions and beef broth have a wonderful affinity - hence onion soup. You might want to add a bay leaf or two, as well as a few pepper corns.

Final note: after roasting the bones and tossing them into the stockpot with water and the onion, cook over very low heat for several hours. It takes longer for full flavor extraction with big beef bones than it for chicken bones. You'll want to reduce the water by 50% - so if after only two hours (or so) you've reached that point, add a bit more water.

Let us know how it goes!

Lisa
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Feb-11-09, 13:57
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NANCI B NANCI B is offline
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Plan: atkins
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agreed about the tomato paste.....but I had 10 gallons of them to process......diluting was faster.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Feb-11-09, 14:00
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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I know that the chef Jaques Pepin roasts bones before making stock of them.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Feb-11-09, 15:11
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
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Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by awriter
What Nanci B said in her two posts. Only difference I'd make is rubbing the tomato paste directly on the bones rather than diluting them with water, and baking at 400 (for a shorter time) rather than at 300. Both changes will result in deeper, even richer flavor with great caramelization.


I can't eat tomatoes, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awriter
Also - lose the parsnips and carrots. They're great for chicken broth, but a bit too sweet for beef broth. A small red onion would be great. Onions and beef broth have a wonderful affinity - hence onion soup. You might want to add a bay leaf or two, as well as a few pepper corns.

Now I know!

My recipe calls for green peppercorns, and I have them, but I think I forgot to put them in. I'm a little wary of bay, but maybe I'll try it next time. Red onions, eh? I didn't know of any use for cooked red onions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awriter
Final note: after roasting the bones and tossing them into the stockpot with water and the onion, cook over very low heat for several hours. It takes longer for full flavor extraction with big beef bones than it for chicken bones. You'll want to reduce the water by 50% - so if after only two hours (or so) you've reached that point, add a bit more water.

I cooked it for about 36 hours. I had the heat very low and I had the lid on so I didn't lose much water. After 36 hours I removed the chunks and cooked it a little hotter with the lid off for 12 hours or so to reduce it.

I have some grass-fed bones that I will probably try next time, but in my experience the smell from them is even worse. I also have a few steak bones that I've been saving. I'll probably throw them in too.
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Feb-11-09, 16:33
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awriter awriter is offline
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Plan: Kwasniewski Ratios
Stats: 225/158/145 Female 65
BF:53%/24%/20%
Progress: 84%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by capmikee
I can't eat tomatoes, though.

If you've got an allergy, then of course don't do it. But if it's just the taste - there won't be any left after the roasting and it really does add a depth you can't get any other way.

Quote:
My recipe calls for green peppercorns

Black or white only. Green is another animal altogether.

Quote:
I cooked it for about 36 hours. I had the heat very low and I had the lid on so I didn't lose much water.

Eight hours max, heat very low - and the lid nowhere to be seen. With the lid on you are actually defeating the procedure and purpose.

Lisa
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Feb-11-09, 19:55
HiDelight HiDelight is offline
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Plan: Atkins maint
Stats: 200/125/125 Female 5'3
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Progress: 100%
Location: In my garden
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I am not sure if anyone mentioned it but you need a cow foot to make a good stock and if your wife does not like the smell put some ginger in it! that really helps. I use neck bones, one cow foot and whatever other meaty bone I can find. I put everything but the foot under the broiler (low down so it browns slowly and evenly)
put everything in the pot and just cover with water
Never boil just simmer with some onions or garlic if you can eat them, herbs of choosing gotta have some bay and allspice berries in there. whole peppercorns, and of course the ginger
oh and do not forget the ACV it draws the minerals out of the bones
lots of salt for me but salt to taste

simmer all day long then strain with a gentle hand and cool

the best richest stock takes careful browning, a long low simmer time.

Keep trying it is so worth it!

sometimes I start a pot on the weekend and then just add to it during the week. by the end of the week I have very rich soup fantastic!
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Feb-11-09, 22:46
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
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Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
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Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
Default

I've tried to get knuckle bones (they're from feet, right?), but some of the farmers told me they can't sell that legally. Then again, I was able to get knuckle bones from the bison guys once. What's the deal?

Haven't seen the bison guys since spring, unfortunately. Man, that bison was tasty.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Feb-12-09, 09:01
HiDelight HiDelight is offline
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Plan: Atkins maint
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nope you need the whole foot! like a pigs foot

Illegal? how can that be? maybe it is a state thing? not a federal I hope because if so I commit lots of crimes buying them!!! they are in almost every market here especially in the inner part of the city you can find them by the tripe and stuff like that

they are scrubbed and really clean if not a major market how about a Mexican market where it goes into caldo de res and also menudo? you gotta have a foot, not the knuckle but the foot ( I think they are different but terms can be regional) I use knuckles as well as feet and hocks and whatever shanks are great if you can get 1 foot and some sliced shanks you have great soup!

ETA OMG a knuckle is a foot I bet! I just remembered pigs feet are called pigs knuckles ..I think I was thinking of the lower part of the shank the ankle maybe? sorry I am easily confused in life! either way a foot with toes is what you want! it makes the broth get that texture and clarity you want because of the gelatinating quality of it (my new word )


ot Cap my purple kimchi is beautiful ! thanks for the recipe I have to take a pic it is bright purple! I do not know why I thought it would fade out but the more it ferments the more purple it is!

Last edited by HiDelight : Thu, Feb-12-09 at 09:07.
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Feb-12-09, 12:19
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
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Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiDelight
Illegal? how can that be? maybe it is a state thing? not a federal I hope because if so I commit lots of crimes buying them!!! they are in almost every market here especially in the inner part of the city you can find them by the tripe and stuff like that

I'll ask our butcher about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiDelight
ot Cap my purple kimchi is beautiful ! thanks for the recipe I have to take a pic it is bright purple! I do not know why I thought it would fade out but the more it ferments the more purple it is!

Isn't it? I have some red kraut right now and the other day the kids had it with fried eggs. It turned the egg whites blue! I wanted to take a picture but it was sort of messy and gross so I didn't. Red cabbage makes some amazing colors.
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Feb-24-09, 08:21
HiDelight HiDelight is offline
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Plan: Atkins maint
Stats: 200/125/125 Female 5'3
BF:not fat anymore!
Progress: 100%
Location: In my garden
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bumping to check on the soup stock progress? how is it going Cap?

I am almost out of purple kimchi and need to make more my friends are adoring it (we are all Korean food freaks)
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Feb-24-09, 09:48
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
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Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
Default

Thanks for the bump. I've been slacking with the soup stock. I asked the butcher and he said he could give me a cow foot, but then I forgot to order it. Next time...
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