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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Apr-27-16, 15:31
jamesd256 jamesd256 is offline
New Member
Posts: 7
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 210/205/190 Male 6'4"
BF:
Progress: 25%
Default State - ok. Diet - love it. Measurements - not sure.

Hi,

I am 10 days into LCHF, and tracking with MFP, having carbs averaging below 40 g per day.

I bought a blood test meter and some ketosis and glucose strips because I was curious about my progress.

I've taken readings the past 2 days, and find my ketones are measuring 0.6 and my glucose 3.8. I'm reading that as fringe nutritional ketosis and normal fasted glucose level.

After reading a few accounts of adaptation, I was thinking I should be further along with the ketone levels after 10 days.

Other factors here are that after the first couple of days I had tons of energy, then in the middle days I had brain fog, which was then joined an then overtaken by muscle weakness. Brain fog gone, muscle weakness nearly gone now.

I've lost about 4 pounds and 1 inch from the waist.

I'm wondering - should I lower my carbs? I'm really happy with the diet at my level of 40 per day.

Thanks

J
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Apr-27-16, 20:45
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

Hello, James. I'd say stick with what you're doing for a while longer. From your other post, I judge that you are well-read on LCHF and ketogenic methods. Fat-adaptation can take a month or more. Ketone readings can be unreliable.

If you don't regain all the energy and strength you need, try consuming more fat, and make sure you're getting enough salt and other minerals. That's a fairly generic answer.

See how it goes for a longer time, while you continue reading around this forum for more information resources.

Best wishes.
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Apr-28-16, 01:40
Grav Grav is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,469
 
Plan: Banting
Stats: 302/187/187 Male 175cm
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: New Zealand
Default

I was just reading about measuring ketones the other day in The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living, by Jeff Volek and Stephen Phinney. Let me go look it up again...

...OK here we go. On page 164 it talks about the specific ketones produced, namely beta-hydroxybutyrate and acetoacetate. It also says, and I quote:

Quote:
as an aside, the strips that test for ketones in the urine detect the presence of acetoacetate, not beta-hydroxybutyrate

So unless the strips themselves have advanced in the last five years or so since the book was written, it's likely that your ketone levels are actually higher than what you're measuring, since both types are made in about equal proportions at first, and then it shifts towards more BHB over time.

In any case, as Barb said it's still early days yet. Keep at it and see how things pan out over the next few weeks.

Good luck.
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Apr-28-16, 04:18
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

I think James is using the Blood Ketone meter, and yes, .6 is at the low end of nutritional ketosis, but that is OK for only 10 days.
DietDoctor posted two new talks by Steve Phinney, he covers the range of time for Keto-adaption in the Capetown talk. Much good info to help you on that website, first month free.
http://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb-...stephen-phinney
This talk is really, really good and everything by Phinney and Volek on this site. Love the book you have, their Performance book would also be helpful for your goals.

As to how you feel, first be sure you are getting enough salt. He talks about it as well above, at least two cups salted broth. At 6’4”, it seems you are doing very well and don't need to lower carbs to lose weight/more ketosis as much as maybe gain muscle.

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Apr-28-16 at 04:24.
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Apr-28-16, 08:02
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

I know that P&V talk about the importance of getting a LOT of salt, especially early on, because I wrote about it in the Salt Thread. You might want to check that out.

One thing that helped me get deeper into ketosis was to not eat too much protein. I could actually skew my diet more toward LC veggies and fat and keep the protein around 60-80g. You'd need more because you're a man, but if you're getting a ton of protein, that can lessen ketosis too.
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Apr-29-16, 03:24
jamesd256 jamesd256 is offline
New Member
Posts: 7
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 210/205/190 Male 6'4"
BF:
Progress: 25%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
I think James is using the Blood Ketone meter, and yes, .6 is at the low end of nutritional ketosis, but that is OK for only 10 days.
DietDoctor posted two new talks by Steve Phinney, he covers the range of time for Keto-adaption in the Capetown talk. Much good info to help you on that website, first month free.
http://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb-...stephen-phinney
This talk is really, really good and everything by Phinney and Volek on this site. Love the book you have, their Performance book would also be helpful for your goals.

As to how you feel, first be sure you are getting enough salt. He talks about it as well above, at least two cups salted broth. At 6’4”, it seems you are doing very well and don't need to lower carbs to lose weight/more ketosis as much as maybe gain muscle.


Thanks for the tip about DietDoctor. I was initially put off paying because of the availability of material elsewhere. I did enjoy his Phinney interview, and his blog posts with graphs are good work. Maybe I'll try for a month....

Yes it's a blood test meter. Freestyle Optium Neo. £13/$18 on eBay over here. Ketone strips are about £1.50 each, glucose are £11 for 50. I believe stuff is much cheaper in the UK? Not sure why, normally it's the other way around.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
I know that P&V talk about the importance of getting a LOT of salt, especially early on, because I wrote about it in the Salt Thread. You might want to check that out.

One thing that helped me get deeper into ketosis was to not eat too much protein. I could actually skew my diet more toward LC veggies and fat and keep the protein around 60-80g. You'd need more because you're a man, but if you're getting a ton of protein, that can lessen ketosis too.


I am interested in the salt question. I will be reading through your thread today. In response to advice given here and elsewhere, I've bought a potassium oxide/calcium/vitamin D supplement, and some losalt (66% potassium chloride).

I have had a pretty 'salty tooth' since starting. I get miso soup and plenty of cheese, and occasionally I've gone as high as 8g per day, but hovering at 5ish normally.

I will inevitably experiment with my macro ratios to see what my optimum protein intake is. Once I'm adapted I'll be resuming my Stronglifts 5x5 program to get my resistance training, so things will change.

For now it's 2000kcal, 25g C, 156g F, 125g P.

Since supplementing, I have been feeling better, but I am not sure if this is more adaptation .
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Apr-29-16, 05:34
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

For a guy your height, that looks perfect. There was a photo of Dr. Ted Naiman in Dr. Fung's post yesterday, which only served to remind me that I hadn't looked at his web or FB page lately. His advice is LCHF + IF + HIIT, Worked for his "belly". He gave these helpful parameters in GRAMS as you did above, they're spot on, and not in Macros as many fixate upon with "Ketogenic" diets.
https://www.facebook.com/BurnFatNot...644462935711527

My complete "guess" is also that you are becoming better adapted to ketosis and using your fat better for fuel. I don't think supplements work that fast, while the fat adaption could easily take a month.
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Apr-29-16, 09:27
jamesd256 jamesd256 is offline
New Member
Posts: 7
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 210/205/190 Male 6'4"
BF:
Progress: 25%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
For a guy your height, that looks perfect. There was a photo of Dr. Ted Naiman in Dr. Fung's post yesterday, which only served to remind me that I hadn't looked at his web or FB page lately. His advice is LCHF + IF + HIIT, Worked for his "belly". He gave these helpful parameters in GRAMS as you did above, they're spot on, and not in Macros as many fixate upon with "Ketogenic" diets.
https://www.facebook.com/BurnFatNot...644462935711527

My complete "guess" is also that you are becoming better adapted to ketosis and using your fat better for fuel. I don't think supplements work that fast, while the fat adaption could easily take a month.


Well, if it takes a month or two, what's that compared to 20 years of getting sick, right?

I really appreciate the feedback and encouragement. I am huge fan of IF, and was really pleased to find it fits very well with LCHF. I think another excellent formula is alternate every day in the morning between HIIT and resistance. The intensity is nowhere near as important as the regularity.

From what I've read, the standard decline in bone density, muscle mass and cardio vascular power (vo2max) can be reduced to practially one tenth.

I also have a strong suspicion that many if not all the life extension benefits of calorie restricted diets should apply to LCHF.
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