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  #16   ^
Old Tue, Mar-13-18, 08:12
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 12,697
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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A problem with measuring hydration by ketone reading is that yOur ketone reading can be quite high without you being dehydrated. Hydration, level of ketones in the blood, and level of reabsorption by the kidneys are the main factors. I have also seen the idea around that as we become ketone and fat adapted, ketones disappear,sometimes put in terms of us using the ketones instead of spilling them. This is truthy, certainly if we absorb them less are wasted, more burned, but we burn them because they are available, not having been spilled, rather than them not being there to waste due to being burned. From the idea that adapted people spill less ketones sometimes I see people worried that showing ketones means they are not well adapted, that is just one more false conclusion that cannot be supported by a urine ketone reading.
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  #17   ^
Old Tue, Mar-13-18, 20:13
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,266
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LebenRedux
Checked out those meters -- a bit too $$ for my budget. Do you find the meter helps you gauge actual body fat loss?

(Just saw your stats, you're only 10# from goal! Awesome! Inspiration for a newcomer.)
No meter, saw people on uTube using them though.
Well, I was closer to goal for awhile, but it gets much harder/trickier as you get closer -- and older.
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  #18   ^
Old Wed, Mar-14-18, 04:13
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,263
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Heard on podcasts this week, from Phinney at Breckinridge, that Virta data was showing fat adaption at levels lower than .5 the longer their patients stay keto.

New blog post about exogenous ketones, which adds their new understanding of BHB levels through Diet also.

Quote:
Summarizing this section, clearly some of the benefits of nutritional ketosis can be attributed to circulating levels of BOHB, and some of these benefits can accrue at blood levels at or even below 0.5 mM. Thus, where we ‘set the bar’ for the minimum ketone level that confers benefit remains to be defined.



https://blog.virtahealth.com/ketone-supplements/
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  #19   ^
Old Wed, Mar-14-18, 09:58
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 12,697
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Even with kids with epilepsy, its found for a lot of them the modified Atkins diet, sort of Atkins Induction but with greater emphasis on fat, is often effective with those lower ketone levels. I target deeper ketosis myself--but there, I can't be certain that it's the ketones that are having the effect.

For instance--suppose I decide I'll eat nothing but cream cheese one day, cheddar the next. I know by experience that I'll eat less of the cream cheese (in calories) than of the cheddar. I'll binge on the cheddar day, and end up craving even if I run out of cheese. The cream cheese day is more ketogenic. But it also will cause less of an insulin response. My free fatty acids will be higher on that day. Too many moving pieces there, to be sure what comes down to the effect of being in ketosis.
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  #20   ^
Old Thu, Mar-15-18, 12:00
LebenRedux LebenRedux is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 106
 
Plan: Dr. Westman
Stats: 242/225/150 Female 5' 5.5"
BF:39%/39%/24%
Progress: 18%
Location: Knoxville, TN (USA)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
A problem with measuring hydration by ketone reading is that yOur ketone reading can be quite high without you being dehydrated. Hydration, level of ketones in the blood, and level of reabsorption by the kidneys are the main factors. I have also seen the idea around that as we become ketone and fat adapted, ketones disappear,sometimes put in terms of us using the ketones instead of spilling them. This is truthy, certainly if we absorb them less are wasted, more burned, but we burn them because they are available, not having been spilled, rather than them not being there to waste due to being burned. From the idea that adapted people spill less ketones sometimes I see people worried that showing ketones means they are not well adapted, that is just one more false conclusion that cannot be supported by a urine ketone reading.


Good points, teaser, thanks.
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