I know I've seen these questions mentioned, but now I need a little more information. I've been eating WAY too much whipping cream, so I know I need to stop. But why? Considering the low carb count, why is it restricted to 3 TBS per day? Does it somehow trigger weight gain in a way I can't figure out? And what about butter and cheese? I fry everything in butter and put it on my cooked veggies, and I put an ounce or two of cheese in my eggs every couple of days. I'm wondering if there is any reason to go completely dairy free. (I did buy some coconut milk to try in my tea....the brand I got says 1 carb per cup, but the other brand on the shelf was much higher. Both unflavoured and unsweetened so I can't figure that out!)

I posted about my dairy-free short experience here, and suggest you read the thread mainly for the comments of many other people who tried dairy-free for various reasons

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=457032

The main thing that pushed me to try dairy-free (well, dairy-light, I did keep butter in my diet) was one sentence in the Jenny Ruhl Diet 101 book - "I've even seen people suggesting that it was the 7 grams of "hidden carbs" in a cup of cream that stalled their diet, rather than the 820 calories that cream contributed. Overly carb-centric thinking leads low carb dieters to come up with some very questionable explanations as to why high calorie foods stall them."

There is no question that for me I need to keep a lid on both calories AND carbs to lose at a pace that I consider to be motivating (I also try to keep protein moderate at around 65g per day). I'm in my 40s and don't exercise much, so this is a personal thing and probably is different for each of us, but from what I've seen middle-aged women very often need to keep calories in check as well as carbs.

So eliminating dairy for those 3 weeks cut out a big source of calories. And I think that's why Atkins limits cheese and cream in induction (along with some who theorize that dairy spikes insulin in a different way, and that might be part of the rationale of limitation).

I should say I don't have any problems with sinuses, skin, etc - the things many people say improve when they remove dairy. I've also never had intolerances to lactose when I drank milk, so I think I'm maybe one of the lucky ones who tolerates dairy well.

Since my little dairy experiment, I had a few weeks around the holidays where I went back to cheese especially (I only bought cream once though - when I caught myself drinking extra coffee and taking two spoonfuls in one day I realized I was MUCH better off without it in the house). After the holidays I've had small amounts of dairy but infrequently - an ounce of cheese on my eggs once or twice a week (but never for snacking), a quiche made once a week or less (cream, cheese), and I usually make a pot of veggie cream soup once a week that uses about 4 oz cream cheese for the whole thing (about 6 servings). All in all, I think I'm now "dairy-light," consuming at most a quarter of the dairy I took in before my little experiment.

And I should also add that my weight seems to be stalled right now and among the things I'm considering (other than PATIENCE - my primary strategy!) is to return to cutting out dairy again.

Good luck as you figure out what is right for yourself!

There is another long thread about dairy started by Costello and has her experience over time, losing weight by eliminating dairy, plus comments by other members and good information from paleo and other writers:
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=450127

As you know Atkins induction and Dr. Westman's clinic diet both have restrictions on dairy fats like all the creams (only 2T per day) and cheese (2-4oz) Butter and oils do not have limits but use good sense (savor don't smother as they write in NANY). As ParisMama writes, it's the calories. If you use 2T of heavy cream in your coffee and cheese in an omelet, there is no room left for cheesecake too. If you use only 2T cream, it's "insulinogenic effect” is likely not very strong, but the reduction of calories will be.

Coconut has naturally occurring sugars (coconut oil is free of these), so a lot of coconut derived products are going to have some type of carb count.

The question to ask is WHY you are eating so much whipping cream.

• Is it a trigger food? Do you crave it?
• Has it become your "treat" even though you aren't hungry?
• Is it the coffee, and not the cream?
• Any skin/sinus/breathing issues that might be from dairy?

It never hurts to try a period of no dairy and see what happens.

ParisMama - that's a good point. I was on another low carb board, and they were talking about how to get a Starbucks latte- and the solution they came up with was to have it made with heavy cream instead of milk. I asked if that wouldn't mean about 800 calories for a coffee (before you ever eat anything!) and was told that old line "so what? Calories don't matter!"

I definitely don't think I have any symptoms of a physical sensitivity - no rashes or anything. But then again I didn't THINK I was sensitive to wheat until I quit and my Ulcerative Colitis went into remission and my heartburn stopped. It definitely is a treat food - but I question they idea that we should NEVER eat anything we "enjoy" basically. otherwise why would we have recipes here for coconut-chocolate bark and the like? I guess I'm looking for a definition of "trigger food". Does I look forward to it, and plan for it? yes. Does it make me eat more than I intend, or eat other foods, no. It's all so complicated!

My experience with heavy cream is this. If I drank that 800 calorie latte, afterwards, I'd feel like I'd eaten a meal, and I'd be less hungry the rest of the day for it. But if I have the usual couple of tablespoons per coffee, and drink enough coffee to go through the same amount of cream, it doesn't seem to be as satiating. Actually, it's usually 3 or 4 tablespoons, so I end up going through more than a cup of heavy cream over the course of the day. So my rule is, heavy cream is okay in a meal, but not in a coffee.

A trigger food for me is one that makes me seek out more of the same. Cheese for instance. 1 piece leads to another and another until that pound of cheese is gone WAY too fast.

Also I think a trigger food might just, in general, make you eat more. It "triggers" a food-reward seeking behavior.

I doubt I would have teaser's experience with an 800 calorie latte. It would probably mean my overall total calories would be up substantially.

I don't necessarily think you need to count calories, but if you're not losing, you might try to find things to trim out.

For me, at least, it's seeming more and more like I have "triggering" foods rather than trigger foods. If I'm hungry, even just a little bit as with moderate calorie restriction, for too long, foods like nuts and cheese trigger me. Otherwise, it seems like they can safely be included in my diet. So far, every other day calorie restriction seems to be all right, but every down day comes with a promised up day that actually feels like an overfeeding.

It probably helps that my calorie requirements are high enough that I can drink a cup of cream and still have room for adequate protein and other nutrients.