Maybe it isn't therapy hour, but it is truly helpful to hear other people have the same kinds of problems, (and the same kinds of mothers!) as I do.

Getting it out of you is good Stacy!!
I too, had a crappy mother....I'm so sorry that you are still having to deal with her....I wonder if they realize the damage they do with the crap that they spew out of their mouths.




srabbit has learned from her mother, what NOT to do with her daughter and I'm sure that you too, have learned from your mom. There will have to be a point in time that you put your foot down and say to yourself "enough!"...you can't change her she will keep doing and saying what she always has.....all you can do is change you and your reactions to her. You can also severly limit your contact with her to avoid her toxicity. You get to control your life now....you do not have to allow her to continually put you down.

Much like srabbit, I too, had been abused by my mother, mentally, emotionally and physically since I was a young kid, actually soon after my kid sister was born when I was 2 1/2 yrs old. I fell in love with men who abused me because that was what my emotional map attracted to me...it was what I thought of as "love" But it was not a conscious act on my part as it just happened. I've come a long way since then and now see it for what it was.

But you're now married to a man who loves and honors you....that says a lot about the you of today!! Look at the good things that you have in your life now...and toss away the bad....she maybe your mom but no person has the right to take away your happiness and only you can draw the line in the sand and put an end to it.

Hugs to you Stacy!!

Judy, you are so right!

Stacy, you need to do what I did, and that is really celebrate the family you are creating with your husband and "shake the dirt off your shoes" as it were---turn away from the relationship you sort of have with your mother and turn solidly towards your real family.

We don't get to choose the family we're born into, but you've chosen both your husband and your children (and your dog or cat if you have one!!) So there is your security, your happiness, your loyalty.

Limit your time with your mother; and don't worry about whether you see her or not, whether she treats your kids or your sister or the bird in the yard better; she is a person that is very flawed and if she wasn't your mother you probably wouldn't make friends with her anyway. Let your kids have a separate relationship with her if need be; my kids saw right through my mother at an early age and didn't want to spend that much time with her---but if they had that would have been okay if she treated them okay.

You are not who your mother has decided you are---just remember that---she hasn't allowed herself to really see how wonderful and vibrant and loving you are--and she never will....

You will be okay, I promise you, if you stop looking to her for acceptance. Don't put more importance on the label "mother" than she deserves----

And come here for therapy as often as you want---as you can see there are many people here who totally relate to what you're going through----

thanks for letting me be so longwinded!!!!

Ok srabbit and judy you've done it and made me cry...those were such thoughtful and well written posts. my mother was abusive physically too, but only to me. funny, for many years i thought maybe i wasn't hers since she never treated my brother and sister the same way. i remind myself all the time to try and put it behind me and raise my dd in not the way that i was raised but in the way i wasn't raised. it is a daily struggle to not blurt out the same hurtful things when my dd is pushing every button there is inside of me when she's angry. she's going on 12 so she's getting to her height with the mouth recently. it truly is a daily struggle..she's sad, happy, angry, and elated all within the span of one hour..and this cycle repeats 8 times a day

i went on at 20 to marry a man (my dd's father) who was verbally and physically abusive too. when we divorced i left him the house and everything in it, i just took 1700 and my daughter and started over. we were married for six years when i finally put an end to it. my dh is the exact opposite on so many levels and i thank god everyday i found him. but when i divorced my ex in 2001 my mom went out of her way to make me feel guilty about it..she was really close to him and in hindsight i see why, they both mutually put me down and enjoyed it.

when my ex got remarried a year and a half ago my mom and step dad went to his wedding and partied until 1 am with them and her whole family, all 250 guests. this was a HUGE wedding, 50,000 dollars. stupid since his wife was married before too. anyways, the next day after the wedding she must've went to a 1 hour photo place and by late afternoon came over with a album of pictures for ME TO KEEP AT MY HOUSE FOR MY DD. is she for real? she was looking for a reaction but i did my usual "oh wow, that's nice..oh laura looked beautiful in her gown, thats nice" but when she told me to keep it here i said "why? brooke's got a home with her dad and that's where she can keep it". my mom goes way beyond to hurt me.

now my mom is seeing the real step mom my dd has with the latest current events unfolding since december. for the last five years if i say one negative thing about her or my ex my mom is all over me. nevertheless we weren't allowed to mention my own father's name in our house growing up. so hypocritical. my ex and i are going into court april 19th for a change of support. after he verbally attacked and harassed me in december i put a stop to his gravy train. when our support was configured he made 35 k and i made just 11 an hour. so it was set at 100 a week. now he's making 100k and i'm making nothing so he is severly p*ssed that his ride is coming to an end. oh he called me everything in december from a horrible mother, to being a dead beat who doesn't pay for anything. so i asked him do you think brooke can stay alive on 400 a month? he said yes..i thought this guy is dellusional. not only that we took five trips last year, she's always having new clothes, etc and he doesn't buy her anything...he tells her it's in the support. thats what started this in december because he wouldn't buy her a 7 dollar sweat shirt. when he and his wife take trips they never have taken her in five years anywhere, they go alone. we went to nyc 4 times and san diego once last year and i'm the "pathetic parent" i swear, he and my mom are cut from the same cloth.

how can you tell someone they're a bad mother when that person is doing 100 percent of the leg work in raising a child, even when deathly ill from cancer i got no help from him or my mother. why because i'm fortunate to stay home and raise my kids, i'm a deadbeat. his wife stays home with their baby so i asked him "what does that make her". grrr you see, there's not enough forum space for me to air out my problems with him and my mom.

After reading some of the responses in this thread, I'm not so sure that this is a place for me. I'm treated as well heavy as I was when I was thin. The quality of man that I attract is better than when I was thinner and younger.

Losing weight isn't a magical experience that makes the world a beautiful place filled with bunnies, puppies, and roses. It's the same old world, heavy or thin. If there aren't snide remarks about your weight, it'll be about the clothes you're wearing. If it's not the clothes, it's your hair. If it's not your hair, it's the lack of it.

No one can make you miserable and insecure without your permission.

Well, I'd say you are a pretty lucky lady then. That isn't everyone's experience. And I don't think it is particularly friendly to belittle those whose experiences are different than yours for not just shaking it off. Abuse is abuse. Sometimes the best we can do is survive it.

It has nothing to do with luck. You're only treated as poorly as you allow people to treat you.

If it's belittling to encourage someone to be confident in themselves and not define their self-worth as a dress size or through the negative comments of others, then yes, I'm belittling the entire group and will continue to do so.

I apologize if that offends you. However, I don't apologize for demanding respect, receiving it, and encouraging others to do the same.

Kris, I think everyone here comes from such different experiences, and sometimes you do have no control over what happens to you----especially as a child, when you aren't in a position to leave the situation and you aren't knowledgeable enough to know that what you are being told is a lie and comes from an evil person even if it is a parent.

When you are put down for years as a child, it's difficult to step back and say "hey, I have worth and I have value" because the truth that you know inside is (and it's really a lie but as a child you think it's the truth) that your mother or your father thinks your worthless so you must be---it IS a brainwash and it IS a lie, I don't know if I'm explaining myself very well---but to a child it is the truth and shapes how that child views themselves, and it is very hard for them to break it because they don't have the tools to do so---

I agree that it is very good to encourage people to be confident in themselves and to break the chain of low self esteem, many times by cutting off the person responsible---but I think it is simplistic to say that you're only treated as poorly as you allow people to treat you as there are a lot of evil relatives in people's lives that aren't going to change and that we do have to deal with at times.

My brother apologized to me when he was an adult for how much better my mother treated him...it wasn't just me thinking it---I avoided spending time with her, but when she was elderly and he lived out of state it was me doing all the shopping etc. with her---so I couldn't avoid her and her ways, and I couldn't change her. For me, I did try to do what you refer to, not allow it all to get to me, but it was very difficult...

I understand where you're coming from......we're just not all there yet.....oh how I wish we were!!

Bullshit. Saying that implies that you're culpable for the actions of others, which you are not. You can only effect your own decisions and actions, not those of others, and people WILL treat you like crap for your physical appearance (be it weight, race, gender, sexuality - whatever) - which has NOTHING to do with the content of your character.

I know this because I am now treated ENTIRELY differently than I was some 14 months ago. This is not an illusion. This is not because I gained intelligence or self-respect. I've always had both. And I defend myself like no one I know - I have a vicious tongue when provoked. This is not because I "allowed" people to treat me badly. If anyone I know who knows me heard someone imply that about me, they'd die laughing. I'll cut someone down to size in an instant. And I didn't act like a loser - I have lived with a massive need to excel at different things just to feel average. And none of that has changed in the short year I've lost this weight. NONE of it. It is not me that has changed in any non-physical way. It IS them. It IS the way I'm perceived.

I am treated differently because I'm thinner. I was not responsible when strangers (STRANGERS - not people who knew me in any way):

- accosted me on my way into a takeout place and then threw their food at my car as I drove away late one night
- mocked me as I walked in the front door of my apartment
- made it known that there was no way I was getting a job for which I was entirely qualified due only to my weight
- physically intimidated me in a bar
- mocked me on a train in front of my brother
- wouldn't look me in the eye when we met
- etc.
- etc.
- etc.

Further, to use some of the most obvious examples in history - and NOT to draw a parallel between their struggles and and those that are undergone by the severely obese in this country, because they are clearly on ENTIRELY different levels of severity - the jews didn't bring it upon themselves when the nazis persecuted them. Blacks didn't bring jim crow on themselves. Reginald Denny didn't get hit in the head with a brick because he brought it on himself. Women didn't bring unequal pay on themselves. Etc. etc. etc.

You are NOT treated badly only because you allow it to happen. Are there times when that's the case? Sure, especially if you are involved with abusive one-on-one relationships. But when strangers treat you badly, it is an ENTIRELY different ballgame. If you are severely overweight in this country you're constantly under mental duress that thin people do not have to put up with. Period. THAT is not their fault.

I am not saying that being overweight is not the fault of the individual - it is. I take full responsibility for where I was physically 14 months ago. But I was NOT responsible for how I was treated by complete strangers every single day.

-j.

We'll simply have to agree to disagree on this one.

I wish you all the best, but I'm not feeling you on this.

I feel him on this as do most of us in the TDC.....I know how it was for me and what it is now...and its a world of difference.


Its a YMMV thing and you must be a very special woman to be able to feel the way you do about yourself at your current weight.

I know that for me.....I was not lucky in that way at all. I had family that shunned me at my high weight....strangers would taunt me in public....I was constantly on the defense of being mortified due to my weight.

It is apparent to me that when we can come together and share our mutually bad experiences, it somehow lightens our load....and we move on.

Each person's experience is unique to them and its good to honor all of our experiences and avoid being judgemental as that tends to invalidate other's experiences.

I wish you success in your weight loss journey!!

Preach! I love your attitude. We would TOTALLY be friends if we met in real life. LOL.

Some people ask "How could she like herself at that size?"

I ask, "Why shouldn't I?"

No, we aren't responsible for other people's actions, but as adults, we CAN choose how much time we want to devote to licking our wounds over it.

I see a lot of people making a meal of their hardships, and it makes me sad. Dwelling in the past solves nothing, and just accepting the bad treatment others heap on us means we give them power and control they don't deserve.

I think it all comes down to our own perception and interpretation of how we're treated by others. If Kris never sees any of the stuff going on in society I say more power to you and how did you get where you are girl??

Of course there's study after study about how society treats poorly the overweight and, how did Potatofree put it one day, the not so facially fortunate. Yes, the abuse is out there, but it's how we perceive it (or not even perceive it, as in the case of kris) and then process it.

Like PotatoFree is saying, if we own all those LIES then we have massive wounds to lick and nurse. If we stay there in the pain then it piles up and can overwhelm us leaving us insecure at best and with a heap of self hatred at worse.

How I try to deal:
I try to remind myself that if someone is a bigot their comments and actions are about THEM and not about me. In other words I do my best not to make it mine or take on what they said as being in any way true in my reality. That way it's not about me, it's really about their lack of .... common sense, common decency...heartfulness...humanity... well just fill in blank there. If the abuse comes from someone I know it usually hurts and then I have to step back to process it. It's not as intense when strangers do it. When my family USED to say things I told the sensitive ones that it hurt my feelings and asked them to stop. I told the abusive and abrasive ones that the subject is OFF LIMITS. They had made their opinions perfectly clear and i don't want to hear another word. EVER. PERIOD. They now back off and don't say anything about my weight, size, etc. I did have to spend several years not communicating with my sister b/c she was verbally abusive. But it was worth it as she is respectful of me now.

We can't stop the abusive behavior of others, but we can learn to process it where we won't believe it or take it in...that way it doesn't hurt us. But that is a process that we have to work on.

I'm interested in how kris got to where she is. It reminds me of when I was in college studying respiratory therapy back in the 70's and we learned about the placebo effect. Well I just about fell out of my desk/chair and was saying hey, guys why is NO ONE studying this?????...what's wrong with this picture. hello... No drugs, person is cured...WTF...if only we could understand and 'bottle' it. No one thought it was worth studying back then. Well that's how I feel about kris....hope you share your mind with us. Cause it truly is unusual to say the least. And I hope you can remember not to judge others who feel (process things) differently than you as it can come off sounding condescending without meaning for it to be. How wonderful to be where you are!