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  #1   ^
Old Thu, May-19-11, 16:40
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
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Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
Default My thyroid update

I've been struggling with Hashi's for two years - about the same length of time I've been stalled on my weight loss journey! And fighting an Endo who believes that what I need to be on is T4-only and STATINS. NOT!!!!! So finally have found another provider, so just thought I'd give an update to all here who are interested in thyroid issues. Most of this is already in my journal, but I'm excited enough I wanted to spread the word.

Thyroid update .... Hmmm, Well yesterday I finally had my appointment with Elaine Hardy and so far she is everything I had hoped she would be. We spoke for an hour, going over my entire history. It was amazing and refreshing to speak to a medical professional who is *totally on the same wavelength* with me on every single issue. She completely supports my low carb eating style and called herself the "Low Carb Queen".

But the exciting news was that, as I had hoped, she wants me to go on natural dessicated thyroid. She absolutely feels it is far-and-away the best thyroid treatment for *everyone* with hypothyroid issues. She says that in some 15 years of practice she has put hundreds of patients on natural thyroid, and in that entire time she has had only *one* person say that he felt worse on the natural and wanted to go back to his Synthroid - and she wanted to work with him to try other avenues, but he insisted, so he let him go back, but everyone else has been far happier on the natural.

She said she tries to treat by the symptoms and not by the numbers, and does not rely on the dreaded TSH to determine dose, and that many of her patients feel their best when their TSH is below 1, or even below .5, or even below what is considered "normal" range - and she is fine with that as long as the patient is doing well. But if she looks at anything it is the FT3 number, and she likes to see that in the high end of the normal range.

She gave me a prescription for Armour, and says most of her patients do well on it - but if we find it doesn't seem to be making a difference we can switch or Naturethroid or Westhroid, and she even has some patients who get Erfa from Canada. So we'll see. She pulled up an online chart that was supposed to show the proper dosage when switching from synthetic T4 to natural. I was on 100 mcg of Levoxyl and the chart showed this as equivalent to 60mg (1 grain) of natural - but she thought this might be too low to start with, so gave me a prescription for 75mg (1 1/4 grains) to start with and work our way up from there. And she said that if the 75mg seems to much initially (heart palpitations or whatever) I could just eliminate the 15mg pill and take only the 60mg (had to get two different pills to get the 75 mg dose) - or take them at different times of the day.

She's also ordered blood tests with comprehensive thyroid panels, FT3, FT4, ferritin levels - and also wants to test my D3, B12...a few other things. She mentioned the information I had just come across recently, that long-term metformin usage can deplete B12 levels, so she wants to check that for possible supplementation also.

I really liked her tremendously, and of course now that I've found her I'm about to move to Florida. But she said she can certainly continue to work with me as a patient even from down there. She needs to see my physically at least once a year (and I'll happily come back up to NJ for that) but other than that she can treat me via phone and/or email. So I hope this will work.

She also said how much she enjoyed having a patient like *me* and that she loves patients who do research and try to understand the issues (how UNLIKE most doctors I've come across), and how frustrating it is to deal with patients who are basically clueless, and have come to her because of a general malaise of "I don't feel quite right" and are on Synthroid et al, but have never ever heard of Armour or natural thyroid. She says she feels obligated to tell them about it and try to get them to give it a try - since they have come to her to try to feel better - but she gets a lot of "but my doctor says" foot-dragging from them. She is completely in favor of a gluten-free diet for most people and said this is another issue that she struggles with with many of her patients.

....Anyway, two days on Armour now, must be too early to notice anything one way or the other - and indeed I don't notice anything one way or the other. But keeping my fingers crossed.
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, May-19-11, 16:55
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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Oh hooray! If you have issues tolerating T3 then you might have adrenal issues. I found that taking Ashwaganda and Relora helps with that.

Is she going to check your RT3?
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, May-24-11, 06:12
maile1 maile1 is offline
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Posts: 376
 
Plan: hcg
Stats: 192/142/138 Female 67 inches
BF:
Progress: 93%
Location: Vancouver, BC
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yeah! so glad you found a good doctor! it will take a few weeks and probably a higher dose of the NDT before you feel a real difference but even now that sounds encouraging!!
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Jun-16-11, 05:29
Enomarb Enomarb is offline
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Plan: CALP/CAHHP
Stats: 180/125/150 Female 65 in
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Progress: 183%
Location: usa
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hi Debbie- how are you doing?
Please give us an update.
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Jun-16-11, 12:17
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
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Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enomarb
hi Debbie- how are you doing?
Please give us an update.
Okay, an update is a good idea. I was scheduled for bloodwork after two weeks on the 75mg Armour. The tests included a lipid panel and testing of various minerals and vitamins. Here are results of the test:
Test name------------Value-------Reference Value

Sodium----------------140--------135-146
Potassium-------------4.9--------3.5-5.3
Chloride--------------103--------98-110
Carbon Dioxide--------28---------21-33
Urea nitrogen---------14---------7-25
Calcium---------------9.4--------8.6-10.2
Protein, total--------6.6--------6.2-8.3
Vitamin B12, serum----1952-------200-1100 (WAY HIGH)
Ferritin--------------23---------10-232 (in range, but way low)
Vitamin D,25-OH-------54---------30-100 (I’m happy with 54)
Insulin, Serum--------4----------<17

Total cholesterol-----290--------125-200
HDL-------------------79--------->46
Cholesterol/HDL-------3.7--------<= 5.0
LDL, calculated-------195--------<130
Triglycerides---------82---------<150

TSH-------------------2.38-------0.40-4.50
T4, Free--------------1.1--------0.8-1.8
T3, Free--------------3.5--------2.3-4.2

Thyroid peroxidase AB--75---------<35 (High, Hashi’s)
Thyroglobulin AB-------<20--------<20


A few notes. Total cholesterol and LDL are both down slightly from the last time they were tested, but that was back in August. I wonder what they were just before I began the Armour? Before that, when I was on T4-only, they were up and up and up every time I went for a test, and that was every three months. I'm to be tested again in a month so I wonder what that will show?

In the meantime, HDL went up. It was 74 last time I was tested. Triglycerides went up too. They were 49 at my last test, but I'm not going to sneeze at 82.

TSH is now in the "normal" range but that doesn't mean the NP feels I'm optimized by any means. But in over a year on T4-only my TSH never went below 5.76.

B12 is way high! I wonder why that is? I was supplementing with B12 in a desultory fashion, meaning I took a sublingual B12 whenever I thought about it, but not at all on a daily basis. But NP says she has seen much worse numbers and was not concerned.

Thyoid Peroxidase AB of 75 shows my Hashi's is still active, but she says that this number indicates it's in a fairly quiet state, and she has seen this number up over 2000 in some people. She attributes my lower number to being gluten-free as she is convinced that gluten aggravates Hashi's.

I was also tested for something called the MTHFR DNA Mutation but I was negative for that.

So the new prescription is to take Slow FE to try to get my ferritin levels up. To start increasing my Armour by 15mg (1/4 grain) every week. I'd started on 75 mg (1 1/4 grains) so starting Saturday I went up to 90mg. This Saturday I go to 105mg, the following Saturday I go to 120mg (2 grains) and the Saturday after that to 135mg (2 1/4 grains).

At that point I'm supposed to go in and have blood tests run again and we well see where we go from there. If at any point during the next few weeks I get any Hyper symptoms from upping the dose I'm supposed to let her know - and either drop back to the previous dose, or split the dose and take twice a day.

So far no changes. I don't feel any different than I did on the 75mg, or any different than I felt before I began taking Armour. I do let it dissolve sublingually under my tongue every morning. I'm doubling up on the Slow FE for this month to try to get a jump start on the ferritin increase. I'm also taking an adrenal support product which she suggested, which contains ashwagandha as mentioned above by Nancy. Blood sugar was a little high with FBG of 125, but I had been seeing consistently high readings ever since I went to Florida the end of April, and I was not sure why. They are starting to come back down again now.

Last edited by Merpig : Thu, Jun-16-11 at 12:27.
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Jun-16-11, 12:40
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Posts: 25,863
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
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Location: San Diego, CA
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The high B12 isn't bad. It just means you don't need to supplement! You might have problems tolerating the T3 with your ferritin level that low.
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Jun-18-11, 20:16
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
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Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
The high B12 isn't bad. It just means you don't need to supplement! You might have problems tolerating the T3 with your ferritin level that low.
Yeah, I'm keeping an eye on that, but so far no problems at all. Up to 105 mg of Armour starting today, and no problems yet or "hyper" type issues that could be related to the low ferritin.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Jun-22-11, 20:54
maile1 maile1 is offline
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Posts: 376
 
Plan: hcg
Stats: 192/142/138 Female 67 inches
BF:
Progress: 93%
Location: Vancouver, BC
Default

Hey Debbie, nice start for the thyroid, are you feeling better as well?

your doctor probably told you but you know to take the iron supps at least 4 hours apart otherwise the iron binds the thyroid meds and you don`t get the full effect.
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Jun-23-11, 09:47
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
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Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maile1
Hey Debbie, nice start for the thyroid, are you feeling better as well?

your doctor probably told you but you know to take the iron supps at least 4 hours apart otherwise the iron binds the thyroid meds and you don`t get the full effect.
Right, I've been taking the thyroid early in the morning, when my dog wakes me up for a walk (usually about 5:30-6:30 AM) and then the iron after lunch.

I'm still early in the thyroid supplementation, so may still be too early to tell much. I started at 75 mg (1.25 grain) of Armour for the first two weeks, had the blood tests with the results above, and now for the following month I'm supposed to increase by 15 mg (quarter-grain) each week for a month, and then have more blood tests. Assuming all goes well as I ramp up the thyroid I should be at 135 mg (2.25 grains) at the time of the next blood test. Right now I'm at 105 mg (1.75 gr)

I don't feel too different at all, in either a good or a bad way, as yet. I do dissolve the Armour sublingually. I don't really have *major* symptoms other than having a bit less energy than I would like. But I have found that I seem to "hit the wall" sometime between 4 and 5 PM each day, where whatever energy I *do* have suddenly drops.

So after doing a bit more reading at www.stopthethyroidmadness.com I've decided I'm going to split my dose. I'd been taking the entire dose all at once in the AM, but apparently it could be better to spread the dose out over the day, so that you get the T3 into your system spread out, more like your body would do it. But of course this makes the planning with the iron a bit more tricky!

Today is my first day, so I took half my thyroid dose at 6 AM, then took my iron about 11 AM, and then plan to take my next thyroid dose sometime between 3-4 PM. But it's darn difficult to try to keep track of all the timing!
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Jun-23-11, 14:44
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Neanderpam Neanderpam is offline
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Posts: 1,388
 
Plan: Ketogenic now
Stats: 277/121/125 Female 61 inches
BF:
Progress: 103%
Location: NE Indiana
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I'm so happy you found someone who can help you achieve your health goals! Woohoo!! And I felt 'more energy' from my Armour when starting when I split it. I didn't need iron, but I don't have parathyroids, so splitting all my calcitrol is kind of a pain in the backside. I think if I didn't have to take the calcitrol, my Armour dosage might be lower...but I'm not going to get the chance to figure that one out

Congratulations to you on your thyroid journey.

Pam
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, Jul-16-11, 10:35
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
Default

Latest update. I'm now on 150gm Armour (2.5gr) and I'm actually feeling pretty excellent, better than I have felt in a long time. I have energy, I feel refreshed in the morning. I take a 90mg tablet upon waking in the morning, and then a 60mg tablet in the mid-afternoon.

I'm supposed to go for blood tests next week, so will be curious to see what they show, and will have to report back here again then.
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  #12   ^
Old Sat, Jul-16-11, 10:48
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,863
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Hooray!

I'm doing the T3 only therapy to try to get my rT3 under control. I'm on about 90mcg of T3 at the moment. This is my third week. It takes about 12 weeks for the rT3 to clear.
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  #13   ^
Old Sat, Jul-16-11, 19:12
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
Default

I have not had any rT3 tests done since it's not one of the tests the lab I have to use does. But so far, since I'm feeling good, I won't worry about it. I've also lost 8 pounds just this week alone. But that still only puts me at 261. I'd crept up into the high 260s lately. But being back at 261 puts me at the lowest I've been since December so that's okay too. Most of this year I just bounced in the 264-267 range, until I tried Peat Eating and went back up to 272. So being back down to 261 is a giant milestone.
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  #14   ^
Old Sat, Jul-16-11, 19:43
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,863
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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I never felt like I could take quite enough Armour to make myself feel right. Too much and I'd get hyper, just short of that, I still felt somewhat hypo. The most I could tolerate was about 120 mg.
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Jul-19-11, 16:03
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sanlee sanlee is offline
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Posts: 4,268
 
Plan: real food/no junk
Stats: 188/145/120 Female 5 feet 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: CT after 7 yrs RVing
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Debbie, that's fantastic that you found such a good doc -- and that she'll work with you long-distance!
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