Read about this hateful policy online this morning....

Southwest Airlines will start charging larger passengers for two seats on its 2,800 daily flights starting June 26. The airline, which operates out of 58 U.S. cities and is the largest carrier at Baltimore-Washington International Airport, will begin charging "persons of size" for two seats if they think they may not fit comfortably in one.
Ticket agents will not have weight and height requirements to follow when determining who can comfortably fit into one seat or who needs to purchase another ticket, said Southwest spokeswoman Christine Turneabe-Connelly.
"It is, unfortunately, a judgment call," she said.
Miriam Berg, president of the Council on Size and Weight Discrimination, questioned agents' ability to make the correct assessment.
"Do they have scales to weigh people? Do they have tape measures to measure a person's girth?" she asked.
Southwest has always asked large passengers to purchase two tickets if they would have difficulty fitting into one seat, and ticket agents used to have some flexibility when accommodating these passengers, Mrs. Turneabe-Connelly said.
But as of June 26, the airline will ask large passengers "whether the flight is full or not, to purchase an additional seat," she said.
If the flight isn't full, the passenger may request a refund after the flight, Mrs. Turneabe-Connelly said.
"For an airline to charge people double based on the person's size is pure discrimination," Miss Berg said. "Do they discriminate the same way against basketball players who are 6 foot 5 inches and don't fit in their seats?"
All people who are too large to fit in one seat, not just the obese, are included in the Southwest policy, Mrs. Turneabe-Connelly said.
The industry does not have a general policy on airlines' accommodation of large passengers, said Diana Cronan, a spokeswoman for the Air Transport Association, which represents the major carriers. However, some carriers charge large passengers extra.
Chicago-based United Airlines, for example, charges larger passengers double if they cannot comfortably fit in one seat, said United spokesman Joe Hopkins.
Miss Berg said she has had more complaints from large travelers about Southwest, which is the fourth-largest domestic airline based on passenger numbers, than any other airline.
"They think they can get away with it because they think discriminating against people on the basis of weight will be acceptable to most of the population," she said.
She blames the airlines for making seats too small to accommodate larger Americans.
"The fact is that Americans are getting larger," she said. "This is what the population looks like, and an airline has an obligation to make its seat fit the population."
The actual trend in size is hard to pin down. In 1998, the government's body-mass index was changed, resulting in 30 million Americans going from government-approved to overweight or obese overnight.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says that, under the new standards, 61 percent of Americans were overweight or obese in 1999. The percentage of obese Americans nearly doubled from about 15 percent in 1980 to 27 percent in 1999.
The policy change at Southwest was prompted by studies of its service, the company says. The airline found that many large passengers did not purchase two tickets and that other customers often complained when their space was encroached upon.
"We learned some important lessons from that," Mrs. Turneabe-Connelly said.
Advocacy organizations such as Miss Berg's have long opposed airlines charging large passengers extra.
The National Association for the Advancement of Fat Acceptance offers large passengers tips on its Web site for dealing with airlines but acknowledges that passengers often encounter stumbling blocks.
"Your needs deserve to be met, but it may be up to you to remind them of this simple fact," the site reads. "Remember that you have a right to accessible transportation."
Mrs. Turneabe-Connelly said Southwest ticket agents are trained not only to make good judgment calls on who needs to pay for an extra seat but also to be discreet when confronting passengers.
"We don't want the customer to be embarrassed or offended in any way," she said.
But it's important that all passengers be comfortable on Southwest flights, she said. "If we have a full flight and there's somebody sitting next to [a larger passenger], the other customer becomes upset."

Donald

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I guess that means 61% of Americans aren't using Southwest Airlines...

That or we can throw away our scales because to find out if we are "thin enough" all we do is ask Southwest, "Am I one ticket or two?"

I just want to blow off a little steam. Last night I heard on the news that Southwest airlines will be charging double for people of size. So what I want to know is what is the break point. And if you're of a "small size" do you get a discount. I fly with them a lot and many time the plane has been full and they've never had to not fill every seat because I'm too big. And now that I'm losing weight, at what point would I be ok? Some folks are big at 200 lbs and some people aren't. And, I buy tickets on line, are they going to ask my weight when I order the tickets, or will they wait till I'm in line to load and then want a full fare when my original ticket was a discount. If it's a problem with fuel then everyone should be weigh as we board and when you reach the load limit that's it. I don't like that a ticket agent arbitrarily picks and chooses. Sorry but this just fries my buns

I have clicked on this post three times....I keep reading it...and reading it...

Can a company really do this without being sued? I wonder who came up with this sick idea, does he still have a job?

Well..I guess this will be the next airline to go bankrupt. Others are pulling seats out...putting them farther apart, making more leg room..etc..whatever they can do to accomidate everyone more comfortably...they must be rolling on the floor over this one..or laughing..all the way to the bank.

cin

I will never fly southwest airlines again--even after I lose my weight....
I cant see how they get away with that....it is pure discrimination. That is such an embarrassment.

We had a case like this in Canada last year. You might find the outcome interesting

http://cbc.ca/consumers/market/file...ying/index.html

Nat

I'm sitting here with my bottom jaw resting on the floor as I type. YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME?!?!?! Don, I read your full account and I am shocked. I just can't believe that an airline would come to the conclusion that this would be in the best interest of the business. I also can't believe that they would risk a suit under the ADA. To me this is no different than if someone were to charge extra for wheelchair bound individuals to use an elevator. I would suspect that if someone were to sue and win on this issue, the airlines would be required to create special seating in planes to provide "equal access" for those of us with large frames.

I myself avoid flying if at all possible because I AM so sensitive about infringing on other peoples space. I always accomodate others and feel bad that I do require special treatment. But to suggest that I must pay double...I just can't fathom that standing up to a legal challenge.

Well...I've got to tell you, I've just lost my cherub like demeanor for the day.

I merged both thread into one, hope not much confusion would result

Some thoughts:

1. Would they charge bodybuilder with huge shoulders more?

2. Tall people who need to sit at the front for more leg room, would they be charged double?

3. Would petite women get a 50% discount?

4. Would they start charging by area, rather than by the seat. Otherwise, they can make the seats so tiny, and charge everyone double the price, excpet for children.....

Wa'il

I think this is totally insane.

Let's play the what if game shall we?

WHAT IF, there were only 3 seats left on a plane and none of those seats were together. Would the "over sized" person still be charged for two seats and everyone on the plane be asked to move to make room?

God how embarrassing would that be!

Good way to go bankrupt for sure.

Well, I did a little research on the subject and it seems that there is both good and bad news for us big folk.

The good news is that while SW Airlines does in fact reserve the right to enforce this policy, in practice it has rarely been done.

The bad news is that it has already held up to a legal challenge. A judge ruled that SWA was acting within legal standards and that the burden of proof necessary for a discrimination claim had not been met. Of interest to me was that the case was not argued as a violation of ADA. I was under the assumption that obesity was treated as a disability and therefore equal access rules applied. Anyone know anything about ADA and the obese?

Thanks for combining the threads, I hadn't seen this one. I'm feeling very insecure right now. I am flying from Calif to Winnipeg next week, and am wondering if Canada Airlines will want more money once they see me. I know it's not comfortable to sit next to a large person, but it's also not comfortable to sit next to someone holding a crying child for hours. Or someone who goes to the bathroom every 5 minutes and has to climb all over everyone. Most people are very gracious and I've never had a problem in the past flying so it is really bugging me. It's always hard wondering if you're going to fit in the seats, chairs, in whatever venue be it a concert, restaurant, movie etc. I hate feeling insecure about this crap.

Having flown Southwest before, I would suggest that NOBODY could possibly be comfortable in their seats--no matter what their weight.

Seriously, though, this is just awful. I'll never fly them again and am writing them to tell them so. I'm also talking to our the people who make the travel decisions for our company and will encourge them to boycott Southwest.

Airlines Slammed on Large Passengers
Wed Jun 19, 8:11 PM ET

By DAVID KOENIG, AP Business Writer

DALLAS (AP) - Southwest Airlines ( news - web sites) is under fire for its policy of charging overweight passengers for two tickets if they spill over into their neighbor's seat.

The airline says it is trying to provide a comfortable flight for travelers seated next to large passengers.

"We sell seats, and if you consume more than one seat, you have to buy more than one seat," said Beth Harbin, a Southwest spokeswoman.

Advocates for the obese are outraged.

"It's just discriminatory and it's mean-spirited," said Morgan Downey, executive director of the American Obesity Association. "This is singling out a group that's been very heavily stigmatized rather than making some accommodations in their cabins."

Downey, whose group has not received specific complaints about the airline's policy, says Southwest and other carriers should make wider seats because Americans are getting larger; the Centers for Disease Control estimates that more than one-fourth of Americans are obese.

Southwest, whose seats are 18 inches wide, does not weigh or measure passengers. Ticket agents can "make a judgment call" and ask an obese person whether he or she usually takes up more than one seat, Harbin said. If the answer is yes, the person is asked to buy two seats.

The second seat costs the same as the original fare, unless the passenger is a walkup customer paying the highest price. In that case, the second ticket is discounted, Harbin said. The passenger can get a refund later if the flight is not sold out, the airline spokeswoman said.

Southwest said there is nothing new in its handling of obese passengers. Harbin said the carrier has followed the same policy since 1980, although employees were reminded of the policy as the carrier began switching this week to a new automated boarding pass instead of its old, familiar plastic passes.

Several other carriers have similar policies, including Houston-based Continental and Fort Worth-based American, which requires purchase of a second seat for customers who "protrude extensively into an adjacent seat." Northwest Airlines ( news - web sites) allows the passenger to buy the second seat at the same price paid for the first seat rather than a more expensive last-minute rate.

"That's a compromise, and we're coming quite a ways with that. It's a very difficult issue," said Northwest spokesman Kurt Ebenhoch.

Delta does not require obese passengers to buy a second ticket and tries to handle complaints by moving passengers to empty seats or other flights, a spokeswoman said. United also does not require purchase of a second ticket, a spokesman said.

Southwest said its double-ticket policy on obese passengers was prompted by complaints from other travelers. Harbin, the airline spokeswoman, said nine out of 10 letters to customer service come from passengers who were crowded by large neighbors.

The airlines said they don't know how many times an obese passenger is required to buy two tickets, but they consider it rare.

Downey said his group was considering legal action or asking Congress to prohibit the two-ticket policy.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...ig_passengers_2

I am absolutely beside myself (would I need to buy an extra seat for that?). It seems that the overweight are the last vestage of those who it is alright to discriminate against. I hope that one of the advocacy groups pushes the issue....

Mark