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  #16   ^
Old Tue, Dec-07-10, 16:23
pinkclouds's Avatar
pinkclouds pinkclouds is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,164
 
Plan: Atkins-ish
Stats: 255/250/175 Female 65.5"
BF:Size 22/16-18/10
Progress: 6%
Location: Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dys
I use my diet to control my weight and I use exercise to create the shape i want to have.



I like that!

Nice to meet you too!
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  #17   ^
Old Wed, Dec-08-10, 03:19
Dys Dys is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 37
 
Plan: Anabolic Diet
Stats: 219/186/182 Male 195
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepo
Hello and welcome.

I'd suggest you avoid soya milk and instead drink full fat milk, or almond milk.

http://blog.wholesoystory.com/
Soy alert!

Dangers of Soy
Jimmy Moore Podcast interview of Dr Kaayla Daniel


Thank you, nice to meet you.

I do not buy into the whole 'soya is bad for you' thing and I drink way too much to be able to substitute for full fat. Saying that though I have nothing against full fat, appreciate it has very high nutritional values and shall revisit the potential to use that as part of my diet knowing it is likely a better product and more flavourful.
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  #18   ^
Old Wed, Dec-08-10, 03:28
Dys Dys is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 37
 
Plan: Anabolic Diet
Stats: 219/186/182 Male 195
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Sebo
Yeah, me too. Sometimes.


It never seems to rain in SoCal... damn it never even seems to get cold. I have had New Years lunch on the island over the bridge outside a cafe in just a t-shirt and shorts... in the UK you have around 30 minutes before you are dead if you try that.
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  #19   ^
Old Wed, Dec-08-10, 03:31
Dys Dys is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 37
 
Plan: Anabolic Diet
Stats: 219/186/182 Male 195
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkclouds
I like that!

Nice to meet you too!



Thank you PC.

It does seem to be the case. I can either be thin with a gut (low fat, low muscle) or lean and athletically built (well in my head anyway... the mirror lies I tell you it lies) based on low fat and muscle retention. Exercise is such a major part of how we all look but diet is always, to my mind, the key (otherwise Olympic heavyweight weight lifting champions would not look like weebles).
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  #20   ^
Old Wed, Dec-08-10, 04:18
Dys Dys is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 37
 
Plan: Anabolic Diet
Stats: 219/186/182 Male 195
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepo
Hello and welcome.

I'd suggest you avoid soya milk and instead drink full fat milk, or almond milk.



Ok just re-read into the caloric values of milk and there is my issue. I do not like to overdo the calories and with the following figures it is hard to justify changing back.

You need to know I drink around 2 litres of unsweetend soya milk a day. The following figures are from the respective packets in the UK.

Milk 100ml: Calories = 65 Fat = 3.6 Carbs = 3.7 Protein = 6.1
Soya 100ml: Calories = 28 Fat = 1.7 Carbs = 0.2 Protein = 2.9

As you can see 2 litres of FF milk brings 740 additional calories a day. In addition it adds 70 grams of carbs. These are just loads I can do without.
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  #21   ^
Old Wed, Dec-08-10, 08:35
mikepo mikepo is offline
New Member
Posts: 19
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 229/200/180 Male 6 foot 2 inches
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dys
Thank you, nice to meet you.

I do not buy into the whole 'soya is bad for you' thing and I drink way too much to be able to substitute for full fat. Saying that though I have nothing against full fat, appreciate it has very high nutritional values and shall revisit the potential to use that as part of my diet knowing it is likely a better product and more flavourful.


Well, it's your choice, and I wouldn't want to tell you what to eat or drink that is your choice. But you should know the facts about soy, if it slows down your thyroid and slows down your weight loss and causes reproductive problems and other problems I don't think you would like that.

Here is an article about why full fat milk is better for you than skimmed or partially skimmed milk

Benefits of full fat milk click here

All in all, welcome to the site, I look forward to hearing more about your journey.

Mike
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  #22   ^
Old Wed, Dec-08-10, 08:39
mikepo mikepo is offline
New Member
Posts: 19
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 229/200/180 Male 6 foot 2 inches
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dys
Ok just re-read into the caloric values of milk and there is my issue. I do not like to overdo the calories and with the following figures it is hard to justify changing back.

You need to know I drink around 2 litres of unsweetend soya milk a day. The following figures are from the respective packets in the UK.

Milk 100ml: Calories = 65 Fat = 3.6 Carbs = 3.7 Protein = 6.1
Soya 100ml: Calories = 28 Fat = 1.7 Carbs = 0.2 Protein = 2.9

As you can see 2 litres of FF milk brings 740 additional calories a day. In addition it adds 70 grams of carbs. These are just loads I can do without.


I think calories are a factor in weight loss. Although trying to reduce fat is not the best way to go about cutting calories. On a low carb diet most people naturally have a decreased appettite due to carbs not perverting our appetite and naturally we eat less.

Eating fatty things slows gastric emptying and allows you to go longer without eating and usually means you don't need to snack between meals.

As the link on my past post shows, partially skimmed milk is most likely carciongenic.

The ideal milk of course would be raw milk. Myself I don't drink any milk, and I would only drink raw milk. I choose not to drink milk to avoid the carbs. Since there are about 12 per serving. That is why I don't drink milk, not for the fat but for the carbs, the lactose.

2 litres of milk are a lot of soy to consume. And even the chinese who eat fermented soy don't consume that high level of soy.

That is a dangerous amount of soy. If you don't want milk fine, but try almond milk, or protein shakes.
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  #23   ^
Old Thu, Dec-09-10, 03:46
Dys Dys is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 37
 
Plan: Anabolic Diet
Stats: 219/186/182 Male 195
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepo
I think calories are a factor in weight loss. Although trying to reduce fat is not the best way to go about cutting calories. On a low carb diet most people naturally have a decreased appettite due to carbs not perverting our appetite and naturally we eat less.

Eating fatty things slows gastric emptying and allows you to go longer without eating and usually means you don't need to snack between meals.

As the link on my past post shows, partially skimmed milk is most likely carciongenic.

The ideal milk of course would be raw milk. Myself I don't drink any milk, and I would only drink raw milk. I choose not to drink milk to avoid the carbs. Since there are about 12 per serving. That is why I don't drink milk, not for the fat but for the carbs, the lactose.

2 litres of milk are a lot of soy to consume. And even the chinese who eat fermented soy don't consume that high level of soy.

That is a dangerous amount of soy. If you don't want milk fine, but try almond milk, or protein shakes.



Oh I love fat me, it is the carbs in full fat milk I don't want. When you see the additional coloric intake as well it just is a no-no.

Almonds I have allergy issues with.
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  #24   ^
Old Thu, Dec-09-10, 04:07
Dys Dys is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 37
 
Plan: Anabolic Diet
Stats: 219/186/182 Male 195
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepo
Hello and welcome.

I'd suggest you avoid soya milk and instead drink full fat milk, or almond milk.

http://blog.wholesoystory.com/
Soy alert!

Dangers of Soy
Jimmy Moore Podcast interview of Dr Kaayla Daniel


I watched the Youtube video and then looked at the other sites and they are essentially all referring to one person and her book. This does not offer a wide enough range of information to allow me to form a credible opinion. The only reference you gave that did not had this list of issues which I have added my thoughts to:


High levels of phytic acid in soy reduce assimilation of calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and zinc. Reduced does not clarify by how much or whether this is an actual issue. I take multi-minerals every day as habit anyhow so this is unlikely an issue for me.

Phytic acid in soy is not neutralized by ordinary preparation methods such as soaking, sprouting and long, slow cooking. High phytate diets have caused growth problems in children. I am not a child.

Trypsin inhibitors in soy interfere with protein digestion and may cause pancreatic disorders. In test animals soy containing trypsin inhibitors caused stunted growth. At around 6ft 5 this is not an issue.

Soy phytoestrogens disrupt endocrine function and have the potential to cause infertility and to promote breast cancer in adult women. Male.

Soy phytoestrogens are potent antithyroid agents that cause hypothyroidism and may cause thyroid cancer. This may or may not be true (I am not questioning or verifying truth). However 'may cause' is hardly enough to warrant panic.

In infants, consumption of soy formula has been linked to autoimmune thyroid disease. Adult.

Vitamin B12 analogs in soy are not absorbed and actually increase the body's requirement for B12. I take multi-vitamins each day.

Soy foods increase the body's requirement for vitamin D. See above.

Fragile proteins are denatured during high temperature processing to make soy protein isolate and textured vegetable protein. Not seeing the point.

Processing of soy protein results in the formation of toxic lysinoalanine and highly carcinogenic nitrosamines. We live in a world of carcinogenic substances. In fact Professor Winston stated about cigarette smoking that if we all smoked lung cancer would be considered a hereditary disease. As such it is likely the case that you need to predisposed to this issue. I am not seeing this as a significant risk in general life and it is impossible to live without risk.

Free glutamic acid or MSG, a potent neurotoxin, is formed during soy food processing and additional amounts are added to many soy foods. Not specific enough and no evaluation of risk or probability.

Soy foods contain high levels of aluminum which is toxic to the nervous system and the kidneys. Not specific enough again.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to look through this and these are simply my thoughts.
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  #25   ^
Old Thu, Dec-09-10, 07:11
mikepo mikepo is offline
New Member
Posts: 19
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 229/200/180 Male 6 foot 2 inches
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dys
Ok just re-read into the caloric values of milk and there is my issue. I do not like to overdo the calories and with the following figures it is hard to justify changing back.

You need to know I drink around 2 litres of unsweetend soya milk a day. The following figures are from the respective packets in the UK.

Milk 100ml: Calories = 65 Fat = 3.6 Carbs = 3.7 Protein = 6.1
Soya 100ml: Calories = 28 Fat = 1.7 Carbs = 0.2 Protein = 2.9

As you can see 2 litres of FF milk brings 740 additional calories a day. In addition it adds 70 grams of carbs. These are just loads I can do without.


I wouldn't drink 2 litres of milk a day either

Just curious, why do you like drinking soy milk every day?
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  #26   ^
Old Fri, Dec-10-10, 03:25
Dys Dys is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 37
 
Plan: Anabolic Diet
Stats: 219/186/182 Male 195
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepo
Just curious, why do you like drinking soy milk every day?



Oh I don't so much. During the day my diet consists of drinking self prepared shakes of 1 egg, 400ml unsweetened soya milk and some sugar free jelly mix for flavouring. I normally get through the day quite easily on about 4 of these for around 750 calories then in the evening I feast upon whatever I fancy (yesterday 3 lamb steaks and some chicken, some cheese, ham and a hot dog sausage followed by sugar free jelly covered in cream).

It is a habit I have gotten into.
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  #27   ^
Old Thu, Dec-16-10, 01:27
tlc63's Avatar
tlc63 tlc63 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 71
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 188/174/143 Female 5' 10"
BF:??
Progress: 31%
Location: San Antonio
Default

Welcome and congrats on maintaining your weight!....btw, I liked your title...more of us should just type what we are thinking....hmmm, maybe not. LOL
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  #28   ^
Old Thu, Dec-16-10, 03:11
Dys Dys is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 37
 
Plan: Anabolic Diet
Stats: 219/186/182 Male 195
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlc63
Welcome and congrats on maintaining your weight!....btw, I liked your title...more of us should just type what we are thinking....hmmm, maybe not. LOL



LOL, indeed best not.

Thanks though and nice to meet you.
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  #29   ^
Old Thu, Dec-16-10, 03:18
Fat Freddy Fat Freddy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 440
 
Plan: Lighterlife (UK) sort of!
Stats: 397/244/173 Male 6'2"
BF:50.1%/31.3%/22.2%
Progress: 68%
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
Default

I'm a big fat bastard ready to freeze again in the UK....

I must admit to carrying several large prejudices against guys who dedicate themselves to getting pumped and stoked (I've been sneered at by too many of them over the years I suspect. I certainly remember being made to feel very unwelcome at a gym in Islington when I was around 18stone, the first time I forced myself through this weight loss process. Didn't help with what I was trying to do), and I'm with the majority here in dealing with some nasty issues relating to food, and how we relate to food.

But this is a big broad church you've signed up to here, and there's plenty of room for all, so welcome aboard, and feel right at home.

It might be useful to poke about and have a look at the maintenance forums, if you've not got there yet, because your expertise is going to be of greatest immediate relevance to those lucky devils, I'd have thought, than to those of us with ways to go.

Speaking personally, its only another 117lbs and I'll be in maintenance too. Come sooner than later, and before I get there I suspect I too shall pump a little iron and that!

Good to have you here. Keep writing.
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  #30   ^
Old Thu, Dec-16-10, 09:10
mikepo mikepo is offline
New Member
Posts: 19
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 229/200/180 Male 6 foot 2 inches
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dys
I watched the Youtube video and then looked at the other sites and they are essentially all referring to one person and her book. This does not offer a wide enough range of information to allow me to form a credible opinion. The only reference you gave that did not had this list of issues which I have added my thoughts to:


High levels of phytic acid in soy reduce assimilation of calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and zinc. Reduced does not clarify by how much or whether this is an actual issue. I take multi-minerals every day as habit anyhow so this is unlikely an issue for me.

Phytic acid in soy is not neutralized by ordinary preparation methods such as soaking, sprouting and long, slow cooking. High phytate diets have caused growth problems in children. I am not a child.

Trypsin inhibitors in soy interfere with protein digestion and may cause pancreatic disorders. In test animals soy containing trypsin inhibitors caused stunted growth. At around 6ft 5 this is not an issue.

Soy phytoestrogens disrupt endocrine function and have the potential to cause infertility and to promote breast cancer in adult women. Male.

Soy phytoestrogens are potent antithyroid agents that cause hypothyroidism and may cause thyroid cancer. This may or may not be true (I am not questioning or verifying truth). However 'may cause' is hardly enough to warrant panic.

In infants, consumption of soy formula has been linked to autoimmune thyroid disease. Adult.

Vitamin B12 analogs in soy are not absorbed and actually increase the body's requirement for B12. I take multi-vitamins each day.

Soy foods increase the body's requirement for vitamin D. See above.

Fragile proteins are denatured during high temperature processing to make soy protein isolate and textured vegetable protein. Not seeing the point.

Processing of soy protein results in the formation of toxic lysinoalanine and highly carcinogenic nitrosamines. We live in a world of carcinogenic substances. In fact Professor Winston stated about cigarette smoking that if we all smoked lung cancer would be considered a hereditary disease. As such it is likely the case that you need to predisposed to this issue. I am not seeing this as a significant risk in general life and it is impossible to live without risk.

Free glutamic acid or MSG, a potent neurotoxin, is formed during soy food processing and additional amounts are added to many soy foods. Not specific enough and no evaluation of risk or probability.

Soy foods contain high levels of aluminum which is toxic to the nervous system and the kidneys. Not specific enough again.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to look through this and these are simply my thoughts.


Thanks for looking through the evidence against soy. I strongly believe that Soy is bad for you. But I do however commend that you did look through those links and videos and kept an open mind. However, on this issue, I think we should agree to disagree.
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