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  #46   ^
Old Mon, Mar-26-18, 05:11
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,417
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
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There's can't be too many in this struggle, Grav.
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  #47   ^
Old Mon, Mar-26-18, 09:38
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,256
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Grav, informative update. It's still essential to change one mind at a time, and the thoroughness of your paper has the potential to do that. One only needs to read. It's news and information like this that makes me realize the value of this forum and understand the high quality of the individuals who spend time to express their thoughts here. Thank you for your time spent preparing and sharing this information.
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  #48   ^
Old Mon, Mar-26-18, 15:55
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18,801
 
Plan: Primal
Stats: 171/155/155 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
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Excellent job, Grav. I truly hope Dr. Clark is able to put this information to good use.

Your writing is excellent. I consider myself to be a good technical writer, and I, too, managed to fail high school English. Perhaps the curriculum needs to change to better accommodate students like us. That's another thread, though.
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  #49   ^
Old Thu, Aug-09-18, 20:02
Grav Grav is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 812
 
Plan: Banting
Stats: 302/183/187 Male 175cm
BF:
Progress: 103%
Location: New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grav
I still have no expectations as far as this project is concerned. I completely accept the very real likelihood of hitting a snag somewhere and things just coming to a halt and eventually falling away. For a while it looked like I'd hit that snag in just trying to make contact with someone. But I'm past that now, so it's on to the next one. Assuming I do hit a wall at some point, that's fine. At least I tried, and at least I'll know how far I was able to get by doing so.

Until I know this, it's still a worthwhile endeavour as you say, no matter what happens. I just want to try.

It's been a long time coming, but today I have finally received a formal response from the Ministry of Health regarding the proposal I presented to the Minister back in March.

I'm not going to reproduce the letter here, but in broad terms, let's just say I have finally hit my snag. The Ministry re-iterates its overall justification for the current Eating and Activity Guidelines based on the total weight of current evidence, and offers statistics that suggest that the reason for our collective ill health is not because those guidelines are wrong, but because we as a population are not following them closely enough. In other words, it's our fault.

While they acknowledge the existence of some evidence for LCHF as a possible treatment option for diabetes, they don't consider the evidence to be substantial enough for inclusion in guidelines aimed at the general population. And even if it was, it would be considered out of scope anyway, as the guidelines are not designed for the treatment of chronic metabolic issues, but simply for the prevention of said issues. Ironic, I know.

The letter ends on a conciliatory note with a handwritten message from Dr Clark who suggests that the guidelines may evolve with time as more and better evidence comes to light around nutrition and eating behaviours.

It's hard to describe how I'm feeling right now, beyond just... deflated. As much as I always said I expected to hit a stumbling block at some point, that doesn't really make it any less disappointing to have finally done so. I suppose in a way I could be grateful that the response took this long, so that it allowed me to have a sense of hope about all this for as long as I did. It was fun while it lasted, I can say that much.

Now that I have finally reached this point, I can take stock and consider other options. The letter did also mention New Zealand's upcoming health system review and how I might be able to get involved. Perhaps that will give me an opportunity for a fresh approach at some point, not to the Minister himself, but to his experts instead. I'll keep thinking...

Last edited by Grav : Thu, Aug-09-18 at 20:15.
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  #50   ^
Old Thu, Aug-09-18, 21:18
khrussva's Avatar
khrussva khrussva is offline
Posts: 6,738
 
Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
Stats: 440/205/210 Male 5' 11"
BF:Energy Unleashed
Progress: 102%
Location: Central Virginia - USA
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Tough news Grav. The top down approach would certainly speed things up and save a lot of lives and limbs. There is a real push to make an impact on our guidelines in the US right now. I fear those efforts will find the same resistance that yours have. If we at the bottom keep pushing, change will come. More good science is happening as we speak. The world keeps getting sicker. Something has got to give. Let's hope we can make this happen sooner rather than later.

You did good, Grav. More will join the fight. The battle is not yet won.
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  #51   ^
Old Fri, Aug-10-18, 04:32
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 4,017
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
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Sorry Grav. It's really not surprising though. The mistake we often make is believing that science drives the guidelines, too many competing interests for that. I believe it was Richard Feinman who called "nutrition science" an oxymoron. The fact that the miracle didn't occur and nothing's changing doesn't mean you didn't accomplish anything. Perhaps you put a bug in someone's ear.

Last edited by cotonpal : Fri, Aug-10-18 at 04:52.
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  #52   ^
Old Fri, Aug-10-18, 04:45
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,271
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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How disappointing for you, but all that time and hard work you put into your presentation and meeting the Health Minister will not go to waste. The upcoming NZ health system review would seem an opportunity and he is encouraging you to stay involved. Even without a science or nutrition background, your grasp of the issues and one solution to them impressed him.
As to your options, this may be the time to approach Prof Schofield or Caryn Zinn. Show them how far you got and ask for their suggestions which way to proceed to build on the work you did. I donít know how much NZ looks to the U.K. for health advice (that hasnít worked so well the last 30 years ) but the addition of a Low Carb treatment to GP guidelines and Dr Unwinís LC for Diabetes, seems the start of changes there. Maybe the NZ equivalent of the family practice doctors association would add a low carb treatment prior to changing the overall country's healthy eating guides.
And to work for bottom up change, do not discount the power of a small group meeting. In the past few yearsthe spin-offs of Dr Westman's monthly meeting in Durham have been nothing short of amazing. Three in nearby counties, and so many around the country where one person passionate to spread the word of low-carb ketogenic eating starts with a meeting of friends who want to learn about how they lost weight and regained health. Kristie Sullivan started doing YouTube recipe videos and now has 165,000 followers, two published books. Casey started a blog, added YouTubes of what she eats and now has 45,000 followers, starting new events around the country. Jess Dudley does small groups in Atlanta and explains how. https://www.dietdoctor.com/people-c...ved-life-health.
Not as Big Picture to start but you seem a dedicated smart person who could create a low carb movement that could grow in NZ.
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  #53   ^
Old Fri, Aug-10-18, 09:10
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,256
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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I don't believe for one minute that your efforts were for naught, Grav. It's a process when there are so many competing differing opinions, agendas, and dogma. The bottom line is that your paper is extremely valuable, as it's based on sound information. I'm resigned to the fact that a grass roots change is really the first phase impetus in the right direction. The second phase will come (and has already started) from celebrities and media members who have adopted their nutritional approaches from the grass roots first phase. N=1 will drive the first two phases. The third phase comes when people can no longer ignore what is being experienced and reported on a broader scale. Frustrating that it takes time, but this is how changes that challenge popular beliefs must occur. I know you won't stop communicating this message.
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  #54   ^
Old Fri, Aug-10-18, 17:28
Grav Grav is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 812
 
Plan: Banting
Stats: 302/183/187 Male 175cm
BF:
Progress: 103%
Location: New Zealand
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Thanks so much Ken, Jean, Janet and Rob for your messages overnight. It was heartening to read them all this morning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
As to your options, this may be the time to approach Prof Schofield or Caryn Zinn. Show them how far you got and ask for their suggestions which way to proceed to build on the work you did.

This is pretty much what I'm thinking now, too. I'd always said throughout this entire exercise that I wanted to see how far I could get on my own, and now I know, and it was further than I expected. The final result should not come as a surprise, and I can honestly say that it really doesn't. But at least I now know exactly where I stand, and exactly what I'm up against.

I've already made myself known to both Prof Schofield and Dr Zinn through social media. Perhaps I'll take things a step further someday soon. Ken was courageous enough to approach Dr Westman, perhaps I can develop a similar relationship with somebody over here as well.

I'll keep us posted.
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