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  #16   ^
Old Mon, Aug-19-02, 18:02
Voyajer's Avatar
Voyajer Voyajer is offline
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Posts: 475
 
Plan: Protein Power LP Dilletan
Stats: 164/145/138 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 73%
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BMJ 1999 Jul 17;319(7203):187;

Diet and prevention of cancer. Whether meat is a risk factor for cancer remains uncertain.

Truswell AS.
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  #17   ^
Old Mon, Aug-19-02, 18:03
Voyajer's Avatar
Voyajer Voyajer is offline
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Posts: 475
 
Plan: Protein Power LP Dilletan
Stats: 164/145/138 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 73%
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Am J Clin Nutr 1999 Sep;70(3 Suppl):516S-524S

Mortality in vegetarians and nonvegetarians: detailed findings from a collaborative analysis of 5 prospective studies.

Key TJ, Fraser GE, Thorogood M, Appleby PN, Beral V, Reeves G, Burr ML, Chang-Claude J, Frentzel-Beyme R, Kuzma JW, Mann J, McPherson K.

Imperial Cancer Research Fund, Cancer Epidemiology Unit, Oxford, United Kingdom. key~icrf.icnet.uk

We combined data from 5 prospective studies to compare the death rates from common diseases of vegetarians with those of nonvegetarians with similar lifestyles. A summary of these results was reported previously; we report here more details of the findings. Data for 76172 men and women were available. Vegetarians were those who did not eat any meat or fish (n = 27808). Death rate ratios at ages 16-89 y were calculated by Poisson regression and all results were adjusted for age, sex, and smoking status. A random-effects model was used to calculate pooled estimates of effect for all studies combined. There were 8330 deaths after a mean of 10.6 y of follow-up. Mortality from ischemic heart disease was 24% lower in vegetarians than in nonvegetarians (death rate ratio: 0.76; 95% CI: 0.62, 0.94; P<0.01). The lower mortality from ischemic heart disease among vegetarians was greater at younger ages and was restricted to those who had followed their current diet for >5 y. Further categorization of diets showed that, in comparison with regular meat eaters, mortality from ischemic heart disease was 20% lower in occasional meat eaters, 34% lower in people who ate fish but not meat, 34% lower in lactoovovegetarians, and 26% lower in vegans. There were no significant differences between vegetarians and nonvegetarians in mortality from cerebrovascular disease, stomach cancer, colorectal cancer, lung cancer, breast cancer, prostate cancer, or all other causes combined.


Get free full text of this article here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...5&dopt=Abstract
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  #18   ^
Old Mon, Aug-19-02, 20:26
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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You might want to direct her to Genesis 9: 3 in which God says to Noah after the flood: "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." along with the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy which specify which animals are permissable to eat and which are not. Since we live after the time of Noah, it's sound reasoning to assume that this applies to us now as well as then. Basing theology on one verse alone is a dangerous and unsound practice.
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  #19   ^
Old Mon, Aug-19-02, 20:45
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Dana114 Dana114 is offline
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Posts: 29
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185/143/145 Female 5' 7 1/2"
BF:43%/19.6%/19.6%
Progress: 105%
Location: Texas
Default

Awesome! Thanks Voyajer, Kent, and Lisa for the excellent feedback. I have been posting different studies and scriptures over there and they have been deleting everything I post. They are rather irrational and cultlike in their beliefs. And you are right, I can't really talk to my cleaning lady about this because she was so defensive when we spoke last Thursday. She can't defend this diet and felt very uncomfortable talking about it. [a symptom of a belief that is not based in REASON] Anyway, I just posted a bunch of Voyajer's posts over there hoping they might stay long enough for her to read. Voyajer, you are a treasure trove of information!!
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  #20   ^
Old Mon, Aug-19-02, 21:25
Voyajer's Avatar
Voyajer Voyajer is offline
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Posts: 475
 
Plan: Protein Power LP Dilletan
Stats: 164/145/138 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 73%
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I hate to sink to their level, but here is the explanation:

Adam and Eve were "perfect" humans with perfect bodies, perfect digestive systems, and perfect metabolisms. They were told by God to eat only fruits and vegetables because they were not sinners (Gen. 1:29).

Anyone who is not a sinner now should follow this advice because his perfect body can take this kind of diet.

As for everyone born after Adam and Eve sinned, they are all sinners and do not have the perfect bodies to be vegetarian. Therefore God said to the sinners:
Genesis 9:3
Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

Thereafter, the faithful servants of God: Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ate meat (Genesis 27), Moses and the Israelites (Exodus 12 and 16), Aaron, the Levites and priests (Exodus 29). Eating meat became part of the Mosaic Law along with the initial ten commandments(Deuteronomy 12).

God promises meat to his people:

Isaiah 25:6
On this mountain the Lord Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine- the best of meats and the finest of wines.

Christians are admonished to eat meat:
1 Corinthians 10: 25, 26
Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it."

Jesus fed 5,000 people fish by a miracle:
Mark 6:39
Then Jesus directed them to have all the people sit down in groups on the green grass. So they sat down in groups of hundreds and fifties. Taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, he gave thanks and broke the loaves. Then he gave them to his disciples to set before the people. He also divided the two fish among them all. They all ate and were satisfied, and the disciples picked up twelve basketfuls of broken pieces of bread and fish. The number of the men who had eaten was five thousand.

Was Jesus trying to give 5,000 people cancer by feeding them meat instead of vegetables? Did he not have the power to feed them fruits and vegetables instead of fish?

Are you perfect or a sinner? Perfect people were told to be vegetarian. Sinners are admonished to eat meat.
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  #21   ^
Old Tue, Aug-20-02, 01:41
DrByrnes DrByrnes is offline
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Posts: 51
 
Plan: Life Without Bread
Stats: 176/172/172
BF:12%
Progress: 100%
Default Does Red Meat Cause Cancer?

Does red meat cause cancer?

Peter Baghurst, Sally Record and Julie Syrette

Abstract

Research reports suggesting high meat consumption is linked with increased incidence of cancers have been the subject of considerable discussion and media attention in recent years. A systematic examination of the epidemiologic literature, however, reveals that the associations between meat consumption and cancer risk are not consistent. Pertinent results from a large number of epidemiologic studies which have examined the relationship between meat consumption and cancers of the stomach, colorectum, breast, prostate gland, kidney and lymphoid organs are presented in extensive tables. Wide variation in the definitions used for the terms ‘meat’ and ‘red meat’ and in the categorisation of consumption level make direct comparison of individual studies difficult. However, it is concluded that any true effect of meat is likely to be small, or even an artefact of a decreased consumption of fruit, vegetables and cereals among high meat consumers.

Mechanisms proposed to explain these associations with cancer risk have been focused in two broad areas. The first of these areas has been concerned with potential adverse effects of dietary fats on cancer risk. Bile acid secretion and conversion of these acids to mutagenic secondary bile acids is increased with high fat intakes; oxidation of fats (especially unsaturated fats) increases generation of damaging free radicals; and specific fats may have unwanted effects on patterns of prostaglandin secretion, on cell-cell communication, and on steroid hormone synthesis. While the relevance of these effects in humans remains unclear, it would seem prudent to choose lean cuts of meat trimmed of selvedge fat which increasingly are becoming available from producers and retailers. However, since fat from all meat products and dishes probably contributes to the average Australian diet around only 20% of total dietary fat, and red meats alone contribute only six to seven per cent, this strategy is unlikely to impact significantly on total fat intakes without simultaneous reductions in fat consumed in the form of dairy products, spreads and sauces.

A second area of potential concern is the production of mutagens in meat by specific cooking methods. Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) are generated by incomplete combustion of organic material, and barbecued meat is especially vulnerable to contamination with PAHs generated either from some wood fuels, or from fat dripping from hot meat onto the heat source. It must be noted, however, that PAHs are ubiquitous in the food supply, and cereals, fruits and vegetables, which are typically associated with lower risks of cancer, may be the major dietary contributors of PAHs for many individuals. Heterocyclic amines (HCAs) formed from amino acids, creatinine and the naturally occurring sugars in meats cooked at very high temperatures (as in frying, grilling, or broiling) are also mutagenic, but estimations of the human cancer risk based on animal experiments and typical exposure levels in meat eaters suggest their attributable risk is very low. The finding that HCAs are also formed in white meats such as chicken and fish, whose consumption is often associated with reduced risks of cancer, would suggest that HCAs in the food supply do not contribute materially to the overall human cancer burden. Use of lower temperature cooking methods (stewing, roasting and microwaving) prevents formation of both heterocyclic amines and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons.

Micronutrients in meat which are potentially anticarcinogenic include anti-oxidants such as zinc, and the dipeptides carnosine and anserine (not discussed in detail here); while isomers of linoleic acid found in fats from ruminants, and referred to as conjugated linoleic acids have been demonstrated to inhibit cancers in a variety of animal models. Methionine from meat may also be important in maintaining an appropriate level of methylation required for regulation of genes involved in cell proliferation. The relevance of these mechanisms to human health still needs to be quantified.

[Aust J Nutr Diet 1997;54(4Suppl):S1–S44].
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  #22   ^
Old Tue, Aug-20-02, 07:43
Dana114's Avatar
Dana114 Dana114 is offline
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Posts: 29
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185/143/145 Female 5' 7 1/2"
BF:43%/19.6%/19.6%
Progress: 105%
Location: Texas
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Thanks, Dr Byrnes!
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  #23   ^
Old Tue, Aug-20-02, 08:40
Dana114's Avatar
Dana114 Dana114 is offline
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Posts: 29
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185/143/145 Female 5' 7 1/2"
BF:43%/19.6%/19.6%
Progress: 105%
Location: Texas
Default

I posted much of what you good folks posted over on the website. I apologize for any plagarization, but did not want to source anything except the studies. Thanks again for the great feedback!
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  #24   ^
Old Sat, Aug-24-02, 13:44
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
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Posts: 18,016
 
Plan: Primal
Stats: 165/149/145 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Default Hey!

Guess who has an entry at quackwatch.org?

http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/malkmus.html
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  #25   ^
Old Sun, Aug-25-02, 10:07
Voyajer's Avatar
Voyajer Voyajer is offline
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Posts: 475
 
Plan: Protein Power LP Dilletan
Stats: 164/145/138 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 73%
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Regarding Reverend Malkmus of the Hallelujah Diet

Quote:
However, in July 2001, he suffered what he describes as a hemorrhagic stroke, which he attributed to excessive stress. Several months later, he wrote:

On July 12, 2001, my body, after 25 years of excellent health, said: "ENOUGH!" Fortunately it was only a mild blood spill on my brain, and I was back speaking again within two weeks of the stroke, and never missed producing my weekly Health Tip or even failing to get it out on time.


This type of stroke is very rare. It is called intraparenchymal hemorrhage where the brain starts bleeding internally. It is only found in Asian countries where they don't eat enough meat and animal products and especially where they don't eat saturated fat which is the only thing that protects against it.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...highlight=asian
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  #26   ^
Old Sun, Aug-25-02, 10:13
Voyajer's Avatar
Voyajer Voyajer is offline
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Posts: 475
 
Plan: Protein Power LP Dilletan
Stats: 164/145/138 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 73%
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Dana 114,

I see that they left a lot of your posts on the Hallelujah Acres Discussion forum and that they are generating a lot of replies. At least they didn't erase them all and maybe some of the information will filter through.

By the way, someone tried to reply to your scriptural post in a message called "For Cindy Baron", so I had a go at them at their expense.

Last edited by Voyajer : Sun, Aug-25-02 at 11:09.
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  #27   ^
Old Sun, Aug-25-02, 11:07
Dana114's Avatar
Dana114 Dana114 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 29
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185/143/145 Female 5' 7 1/2"
BF:43%/19.6%/19.6%
Progress: 105%
Location: Texas
Default

Voyajer,

I am glad to hear they left the posts up and that it is generating some discussion. My intent was not to harrass or start a big debate, but just to show them there is another side to it all. I feel like I did my part and haven't been back. Thanks for your great help!
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  #28   ^
Old Sun, Aug-25-02, 14:32
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Soteria Soteria is offline
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Posts: 101
 
Plan: Atkins/Kaufmann
Stats: 230/203/140
BF:48
Progress: 30%
Location: Washington State
Default

I did the Hallelujah Diet for about two months when I first began my quest for health. Yes it is vegetarian and mostly RAW.

The verse quoted is indeed correct. However, after the flood, which changed our atmosphere and planet drastically, God said we could now eat meat. God also placed FEAR upon the animals since they were now considered FOOD for us.

Genesis 9:2 "And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that move upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. 3 Every moving thing that lives shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things."

God didn't add those verses to take up space. Every word in the Bible is there for a reason. Two months into the Hallelujah Diet, God told me, "I gave you meat to eat for a reason!" That's when I switched to Low Carb instead.

Father knows best!
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  #29   ^
Old Mon, Sep-09-02, 20:52
PoofieD's Avatar
PoofieD PoofieD is offline
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Posts: 2,389
 
Plan: Schwarzbein Principle
Stats: 195/176/125
BF:too much
Progress: 27%
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Default On the sinner idea

Jesus Christ came back after his resurrection in a perfected body and did what to prove that he was not just spirit to the apostles?
He hate a FISH folks :-)
So perhaps perfect bodys need thier fat and protien too :-)
Just a thought
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  #30   ^
Old Fri, Sep-13-02, 16:54
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tamarian tamarian is offline
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Posts: 19,501
 
Plan: Atkins/PP/BFL
Stats: 400/223/200 Male 5 ft 11
BF:37%/17%/12%
Progress: 89%
Location: Ottawa, ON
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Folks,

We had to remove a couple of posts here. Please do not use this issue for Bible bashing, we are simply discusing a group's interpretation regarding diatery guidlines.

Wa'il
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