A special thank you to BawdyWench for posting this in the General Low Carb section

From Dr. Mike Eades blog:



http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=239

He goes on to discuss how low carbing can affect glucose tolerance. Good stuff.

Our bodies are continually adapting to changes in our diet. A low carber would more likely fail a GTT because it is out of practice dealing with the stuff. This probably has to do with how our phase 1 insulin response is set to manage our previous meal(s).

The article also suggests to me that if one is likely to cheat often on low carb, they had better find another WOE (like me).

Finally, A1C clearly rocks.

It's interesting to note that those who routinely follow a high carb diet are, byt the same mechanism explained in the article (takes time to produce the enzymes needed when you haven't eaten that food in a while), fat and protein intolerant.
I agree with NorthPeace; if low carb isn't a WOE that you can stick with long term and you are likely to eat off plan frequently, it would probably be in the interest of your long-term health to find another plan.
This should also serve as a warning to those who make a habit of cheating every weekend (or every week) with the idea that they can just 'get back on plan' and undo the damage. They may lose any weight gained fairly quickly, but weight isn't all there is to long term health.

I allow myself a medium carb treat once or twice a month,but i have learned what treats I can eat that don't cause large glucose spikes and I mainly stick to those. Maybe twice a year,
I try something new and sometimes I get a glucose spike.I take alpha lipoic acid,resveratrol,
vitamins C and E to fight off free radicals.
Not too worried about the Eades thing.
BTW,I lost 45 pounds several years ago doing
Atkins.I gained 15 pounds back when I introduced power weightlifting into my exercise
regimen.Muscle weighs more than fat.
I currently average 50-60 grams of "good" carbs
per day.I feel great.I guess I should add that I
take 750 mg of Metformin ER and 5 mg of glyburide on a daily basis.I'm hopeful of getting
off meds by end of year.
Eddie

The question that wasn't answered until you posted is what is considered low carb diet?

I am averaging about 60 gms a day now as well and if I intend to continue to drop weight I must keep it between 30-60 gms and yes good carbs.

When I go off the wagon (treat) it is for a small increase of carbs up to about 100g on that particular day. My spikes on BG go up to 130-150 at the most and rarely (big treat) up to 170; no where near where I was four months ago at 350 !!!

I just returned from a great vacation. I maintained weight simply because I allowed myself more carbs and an occassional treat. My BG reading all during that vacation were near or under 100 most of the time. I had pasta one night and the 2 hour reading was 170 but by 4 hours it was 80 again. It seems a bit of carbs induced a very good phase 2 response. My dawn phenoms were always where they have been between 100-100 and many right at 100.

So, low carbing does help control the BG and I can do it as a WOE.

My last a1c was 5.6 and I intend to get it lower.

So when you folks say spike, what levels are you talking about.

My meds are Januvia in the morning with Metformin ER 500mg and 2 Metformin 500mg at night.

As I drop more weight I hope I can reduce these meds as well.

Low carb is obviously a definitional thing. Many of us were regularly eating 300-500 grams of carb a day. From there to Atkin's 20 grams and Berstein's 30 grams is a huge gap. Many people would say anything below 80-100 carbs is low carbs, and from 100 to 200 grams is controlled carbs.

The more important thing is for each person to establish how many carbs their body copes with. This is not a moral or Zen thing. It is about figuring out how your metabolism works, and staying close to those tolerances.

That said, healthy athletes needing high calories aside, most people would be healthier on the controlled range of carbs.

Since you define that range as between 100 and 200 grams a day, let me share my experience with that. That's precisely where I was on the ADA diet and while I did pretty good for several years (between 125 and 150 grams per day), my blood sugars eventually wound up out of control at that level. While I had been maintaining decent control (A1C around 6.0), I was steadily burning out my beta cells at that level and when I hit that critical threshhold, those formerly decent readings headed south in a big hurry.
IMO, pushing the limits of what you can handle and still maintain decent numbers isn't necessarily doing your body any huge favors; at least it worked out badly for me and if the only standard you are using is 'my blood sugar is still okay', you may not be as well off as you think.

"The more important thing is for each person to establish how many carbs their body copes with. This is not a moral or Zen thing. It is about figuring out how your metabolism works, and staying close to those tolerances."
Well said,Rob.
Eddie

Lisa - I am saying that healthy non diabetic people, the US population at large should be cutting carbs from 3-500 to the 1-200. Obviously much too high for those with blood sugar issues. PS tomorrow AM my UW appt., hoping they will not push 200 grams of carbs. If they do I won't listen. Rob

Good luck with the appointment, Rob. Let us know what happens.

So staying at 60grams or less is a reasonable goal and helps maintain good BG without losing more beta cells; that is what I am getting from your experience.

Also, when I do have a carb treat I keep my total carbs less than 100 for the day. Rarely, am I going over 100gms for the day.

Also, I need to read up more on Januvia. There is hope that this drug may actually restore beta cells. I read that somewhere on this forum or perhaps Jenny's page.

Posted by eddiemcm:



I agree with what you're saying and I have a different take on carb tolerance than I've understood some of the other posts to be suggesting.

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IMO: If I am a diabetic on BG medications and I have not tried for a few days or a week or two to eat "0" carbs and see if I could actually control my BG within normal levels without any medication, then I haven't really found out anything on how to control my BG. I did "0" carbs for a few weeks and found I could do without the medications from the very first day. I slowly increased carbs and tested myself as I did. In the beginning, my tolerance for carbs was around 20g per day. Anything over that and I was back on medication. As I lost weight and began to exercise and maintain a low to no carb diet, I kept testing my carb tolerance periodically. At 32 pounds lighter and an ability to walk 8 miles a day, whereas I could not walk a mile in the beginning, my carb tolerance is about 60-75g of carbs daily. (healthy and natural carbs only)

So, IMO: Low carbing does not impair my ability to handle carbs. I probably would do miserably on a GTT, as would anyone else who is already diagnosed diabetic. Excess weight and fitness has an impact on carb tolerance, it can't be just diet and medication to improve tolerance for carbs. Diabetes is a metabolic disorder. I believe fitness and weight loss is essential to control and improvement

I would like to mention that Barry Groves, Phd., who wrote the book "Eat Fat, Get Thin" suggests that any diabetic should never eat more than 60-75g of carbs in a day. Groves has been studying low carb diets since the 1960s. He says in his book that there is not enough scientific evidence to even prove our bodies even need any carbohydrates to be nutritionally balanced. Keeping carbs below 75g per day surely seems to be working great for me.

Good info. I agree going 0 carb and seeing what the effects are by pure diet alone is a sound objective.

My plan is to cut out meds soon and see where everything goes keeping my carbs below 60 for sure and as I see my readings lowering them.

I guess I could go 0 right from the beginning and work up.

Yes, I also hope as weight comes down (26 pounds since Jan 7, 2007) and my fitness is improved meds may be minimized and/or eliminated.