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  #1   ^
Old Sun, Mar-25-07, 15:29
Flower51's Avatar
Flower51 Flower51 is offline
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Posts: 318
 
Plan: tweaked neandrathin
Stats: 254/184/155 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 71%
Location: Ohio
Default paleo pets

Hope your furkids haven't been effected by the contaminated and recalled foods. Here's a couple of suggestions for going paleo for pets:

Our dogs and cats are carnivores. They are meant to eat raw muscle/organ/meat and raw bones. Grains and dairy and root vegetables and fruits that are not normally consumed in the wild prey diet can cause allergen problems and other illnesses. Cooked food destroys the enzymes they need to really digest and utilize their foods properly.

It is simple: Give your dog 10 % organ meat (chicken liver and gizzards and beef liver are inexpensive) and the rest should be muscle meat w/bone(chicken thigh and leg joints are good choices) NEVER COOKED . Feed them human grade meat...what you would eat. Their digestive systems are different than humans so ecoli, salmonella etc...is not an issue for them. The bone is soft enough when it is raw that it is not a problem for dogs and cats who are healthy.

Some people who do not trust bone, give them the muscle meat and organ meat and supplement by giving 900 mgs of calcium per pound of meat fed. They don't need veggies...look at their poop after they eat a carrot...it will come out mostly intact. Sure they like to eat other things, just like humans like to eat transfats and chips and cake. In the wild, dogs and cats would kill their prey, eat the muscle/bone/skin/fat/organs and get some wild grasses or predigested veggies in the stomach contents of their prey animal. Some raw fooders (sarf for species appropriate raw food) do feed their dogs pulverized in the chopper raw veggies but root veggies, anything they wouldn't get for themselves if eating prey are not used. They don't have the same enzymes we humans have for digesting grains, dairy, veggies and fruit.

Never feed weight bearing bones from large animals as they are too hard on the teeth and NEVER cook bones because they can splinter and hurt the dog. Bones are necessary for minerals. Organs are necessary for vitamins. If the dog eats too much bone, he will be constipated so feed more organ or muscle and it will loosen him up (or raw egg)

Check the sites I post below for more details or if you have questions and concerns re parasites, etc...they will give you thorough info. Whole Dog Forum and the articles section on B-Naturals are helpful sites where I've learned a lot from the normal pet owners and also breeders who have fed this way for years....healthier and happier dogs are my exp and theirs. No horror stories from people who actually do this and know what its like....Follow simple guidelines and its not complicated and can fit into your budget.

ex: Mon & Tues....raw whole chicken leg and thigh joints w/a side of raw chicken liver and kidney (large pieces of meaty bones are best so your dog doesn't try and gulp it down, but gnaws on it and takes his time...the bone is digested in his stomach so he doesn't have to chew it thoroughly before swallowing) In our area, leg and thigh joints can be found anywhere from 29 cents a pound to 79 cents a pound. My 48 pound dogs typically each eat one joint a day along w/raw liver/kidney and or gizzards. Our "gulper" doesn't like chicken skin ... and gulps...so I skin his and hang onto one end till he's mostly done.

Wed & Thurs....raw fatty ground beef w/10% ground beef liver (the bones on the other days balances this out, or give 900 mg of calcium per pound fed) I mix this w/warm water so its a little "stewy" and can't be gulped quickly. When my dogs gulps food down it comes back up pretty quickly!My dogs eat about a pound of this each on their beef days, although every dog is diff depending on activity level.

Fri & Sat....raw meaty pork ribs and 10% pork kidney or liver. Serve a good sized slab of the pork ribs so they need to work on it and don't just try and gulp it down. I've found one of our dogs is a gulper and needs the liver or kidneys to be cut into smaller pieces or pulverized in my electric chopper or he throws it back up.

Sunday....day of rest. Many raw fooders give them a day off of food, just like they would occassionaly miss a meal in the wild to let their digestive system rest.

etc...Our gulper's favorite meal is the ground beef and liver. Our other dog loves her food and has had no problem digging in to whole pieces. As long as you feed the bone meals every other day or every couple of days, and be sure your dog gets the organ meats they will be in good shape. Some recommend giving salmon oil capsules to make up for the EFAs not found in commercially farmed (non grazing) animals but some have found that is not really necessary to give ANY supplements as this is a nutritionally dense and superior way to feed.

The health of both of our dogs has improved dramatically since feeding raw in December! I'll see you on the Whole Dog Forum as "Flowergirl" if you pop in to surf or ask questions. http://www.wholedogforums.com Hope this helps somebody out there! Terry ...Bootsie and Ida's Mom

For those not ready to feed raw, check the home cooked foods on the B-Naturals articles portion of the B-Naturals site. I've never purchased any supplements from them as many who've been doing this a long time have found supplements unnecessary when they feed raw in the right balance of muscle/organ and bone. My own dogs had trouble digesting homemade cooked foods...it destroys the enzymes the live food has but I've included it as an option to what is presently more dangerous....the commercially made recalled foods and those foods still out there not yet on the list.

For a link to the foods effected:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Dog_Food_Sa...Dog_Food_Recall Also be aware that not all effected foods have been tracked down yet and some are not even related to Menu Foods. Homemade and raw is best.
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, Mar-25-07, 15:37
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Posts: 28,330
 
Plan: Hedonic Paleo
Stats: 209.5/170.4/165 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 88%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Whole Foods has a cat food I like to buy. It is frozen and comes in a 1.5 pound chub. I usually agument that with tuna or chicken thighs or beasts and add some extra taurine (essential amino acid for kitties). I also found a Bravo dealer in San Diego and buy raw meats from them. I've tried feeding raw, whole ground rabbit to my cat but he has a hard time digesting the fur and ends up throwing up. Yuck! Cat vomit from raw meat is utterly gross.

I have also ordered from hare-today.com but the shipping charges make it pretty expensive.

My cat, 15 year old siamese, was getting VERY fat and I think headed towards diabetes on kibble. When I switched him he didn't lean out and I had to start portion control. He started to loose weight pretty well on 1 oz twice a day -- it took a lot of trial and error to find where he could lose weight. Now he's on maintenance and it seems like 3 oz or a bit more daily is pretty good for him. He's weighs about 13 pounds now, down about 3 pounds from his highest point.
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Mar-26-07, 10:29
ProteusOne ProteusOne is offline
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Plan: Paleo/Low Cal
Stats: 000/000/200 Male 5 ft 10 in
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Funny story: I bought a 2 lb pork tenderloin once and let it sit in the fridge too long, so I threw it in the trash and forgot about it. Our dog (a Carolina Dog) has a great sniffer and ended up pulling it out of the trash, eating the entire thing and was extremely full but happy for the entire day. It's a hard mental thing for us humans to accept, but dogs really do love raw meats and do better when they have some every day. Especially American Dingos. She loves insects too.
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Mar-26-07, 12:52
Flower51's Avatar
Flower51 Flower51 is offline
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Posts: 318
 
Plan: tweaked neandrathin
Stats: 254/184/155 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 71%
Location: Ohio
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Dear Proteus...UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I checked out your Carolina Dog link out of curiosity. Our dog, who we rescued at about 8wks from a horrible life of abuse and neglect on the city street, Ida has remained a mystery up until now as far as her possible breed/mix. Our vet declared her a "Cleveland coyote" LOL as she was a question mark. Her coat is golden w/the same variation as some of the Carolina dogs pictured at her shoulders.
Her ears as a pup were so big we called them "helicopter ears" and the standing joke was that she'd "grow into them" They are beautiful! I wish I had a scanner so I could show you a picture of her. Prior to this we thought she might have some German shep/golden retriever and ????? in her. She does have purple spots on her tongue. Is this a trait of Carolina dogs? She is one of the sweetest and most loyal dogs we've ever had and loves to jump...I thought she was part kangaroo. Terry
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  #5   ^
Old Mon, Mar-26-07, 13:17
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kallyn kallyn is offline
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Plan: life without bread
Stats: 150/130/130 Female 5 feet 7 inches
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProteusOne
It's a hard mental thing for us humans to accept, but dogs really do love raw meats and do better when they have some every day.


I really wanted my parents to start feeding their dog raw meat. So one time when I was puppysitting while they were out of town, I tried to start her out on some raw stuff - chicken, beef, and a pig's foot. She looked at me like I was absolutely deranged and refused to eat any of it. I'd read about this, so I tried just cooking the outside so that it would smell like "food" to her, but she still would have none of it! I tried for 4 days before I gave up and gave her back her kibble. Poor little pup probably thought I was trying to starve her to death.

If I ever get pets of my own, I intend to raw feed them. That won't happen anytime soon unless hubby's pet allergies magically disappear though.
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Mar-26-07, 15:07
ProteusOne ProteusOne is offline
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Posts: 1,292
 
Plan: Paleo/Low Cal
Stats: 000/000/200 Male 5 ft 10 in
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Progress: 0%
Location: NC, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower51
Dear Proteus...UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I checked out your Carolina Dog link out of curiosity. Our dog, who we rescued at about 8wks from a horrible life of abuse and neglect on the city street, Ida has remained a mystery up until now as far as her possible breed/mix. Our vet declared her a "Cleveland coyote" LOL as she was a question mark. Her coat is golden w/the same variation as some of the Carolina dogs pictured at her shoulders.
Her ears as a pup were so big we called them "helicopter ears" and the standing joke was that she'd "grow into them" They are beautiful! I wish I had a scanner so I could show you a picture of her. Prior to this we thought she might have some German shep/golden retriever and ????? in her. She does have purple spots on her tongue. Is this a trait of Carolina dogs? She is one of the sweetest and most loyal dogs we've ever had and loves to jump...I thought she was part kangaroo. Terry


Wonderful! I really love our dog. I'll send you a couple pictures of her if you give me your email. I'd love to see some pictures of your dog too. We got "Zoe" from the local shelter here as a pup and from first site I knew she was the dog for us!
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Mar-29-07, 18:39
Flower51's Avatar
Flower51 Flower51 is offline
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Posts: 318
 
Plan: tweaked neandrathin
Stats: 254/184/155 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 71%
Location: Ohio
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Hi Proteus. I'm still waiting for the pics of your Carolina Dog! Terry
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Mar-31-07, 07:33
Flower51's Avatar
Flower51 Flower51 is offline
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Posts: 318
 
Plan: tweaked neandrathin
Stats: 254/184/155 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 71%
Location: Ohio
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This was in the local newspaper this morning.

Federal testing of recalled pet foods turned up a chemical used to make plastics but failed to confirm the presence of a cancer drug made to use rat poison (found in other pet foods) The recall expanded Friday to include the first dry pet food.

The FDA said Friday it found melamine in samples of the Menu Foods pet foods involved in the original recall and in imported wheat gluten used as an ingredient in the company's wet products.

Cornell University scientists also found melamine in the urine of sick cats, as well as in the kidney of one cat that died after eating some of the recalled food.

Meanwhile Hill's Pet Nutrition recalled its Prescription Diet m/d Feline Dry Cat Food. The food included wheat gluten from the same supplier that Menu Foods used. The recal didn't involve any other Prescription Diet or Science Diet products (SO FAR) said the company, a division of Colgate-Palmolive.
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Apr-01-07, 19:57
Wyvrn's Avatar
Wyvrn Wyvrn is offline
Dog is my copilot
Posts: 1,389
 
Plan: paleo/lowcarb
Stats: 210/162/145 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Olympia, WA
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No Carolina dog here, but I took some shots of our two Corgies, both paleo (raw meat/bones) for the last 5 years. They are 5 and 9 years old.



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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Apr-01-07, 20:10
capo capo is offline
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Oooh! Beautiful dogs! I love their shiny coats. Before my other Schnauzer died of old age, my two schnauzers play fought like that! Sometimes it got kind of annoying, and it's nice just having one schnauzer, but your dogs look very healthy Proteus. I bet you take good care of them.
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Apr-03-07, 23:13
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McRumi McRumi is offline
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Posts: 467
 
Plan: yo-yo
Stats: 230/190/175 Male 5'10"
BF:no clue
Progress: 73%
Location: Richmond VA
Default Paleo Pets

Oddly but fortunately, I started feeding my dogs raw meat (mostly chicken legs and sardines) just before all the dog and cat food bruhaha started.

Like me, they love it. And everything you hear is true..their coats go from dull and shedding to glossy and much less shedding, their teeth are clean, their breath sweet, and their disposition and energy excellent. And they are both 12.

However, dogs can get poisoned from too much fat and too much red meat. Always good to do the research.

One of my old troopers:




And in his glory days with best bud:

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  #12   ^
Old Wed, Apr-04-07, 04:56
Flower51's Avatar
Flower51 Flower51 is offline
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Posts: 318
 
Plan: tweaked neandrathin
Stats: 254/184/155 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 71%
Location: Ohio
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I love the pooch pictures....I don't have a scanner so you'll have to use your imaginations for mine....

Bootsie is part dalmation/beagle/black lab (maybe some german shorthaired pointer). He's a high energy pooch that loves to go in the back yard and chase squirrels. The squirrels just perch on the lowest tree branches they can to chatter and tease him.

Ida is, from looking at the pics of the site Proteus posted, a Carolina dog...or close to it. Before seeing the pics, our best guess was part German shepherd, part Golden, part ????? The vet called her a "Cleveland Coyote" LOL.

McRumi, do you get on any of the message boards re raw feeding? Where did you learn? Initially both dogs got leaner on raw. Now Ida is packing on the pounds and her halter was too tight for her last week! They both were eating the same amount and were about the same size but their metabolisms must be very different. So...I'm now feeding her less and taking off most of the chicken skin. Do you give your dogs a "rest day"? When you say you feed sardines, are they the frozen or fresh ones? Ida loves them frozen. Bootsie had to be coaxed to eat fish and then threw up. NOT something agreeable to his tummy. I know its sposed to be good for their coats if they will eat them. On Whole Dog Forum, from what I've read, other furkids sometimes have the same reaction to fish as Boots. Do you feed any other meat besides chicken and sardines? I've read that its good to try and feed from several kinds of meat as variety provides more of what they need.

Wyvrn have you seen any of the Tasha Tudor children's books? She illustrated books w/pictures of corgis....I fell in love w/them though I haven't seen them in person but once in my life. Terry....Bootsie and Ida's Mom
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  #13   ^
Old Wed, Apr-04-07, 17:50
ProteusOne ProteusOne is offline
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Posts: 1,292
 
Plan: Paleo/Low Cal
Stats: 000/000/200 Male 5 ft 10 in
BF:
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Location: NC, USA
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Here are a couple pics of our American Dingo (Carolina Dog), Zoe.

She's definitely an omnivore!

(Can't seem to figure out how to get the images to actually show up ~ sorry.)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DoggyOverVent.jpg (45.2 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg SleepyZoey.jpg (74.4 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg ZoeyBall.jpg (75.7 KB, 14 views)
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  #14   ^
Old Wed, Apr-04-07, 17:51
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Posts: 28,330
 
Plan: Hedonic Paleo
Stats: 209.5/170.4/165 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 88%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Oooh! Sardines, what a great idea. I know a certain kitty that'd love those.
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  #15   ^
Old Wed, Apr-04-07, 17:59
Wyvrn's Avatar
Wyvrn Wyvrn is offline
Dog is my copilot
Posts: 1,389
 
Plan: paleo/lowcarb
Stats: 210/162/145 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Olympia, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower51
Wyvrn have you seen any of the Tasha Tudor children's books?
I haven't seen her books, but I saw a video about her. She is quite a character and has a couple of corwyn, I think, who were more than a little plump :/.
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