Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > LC Research/Media
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Sun, Feb-18-07, 10:24
foxgluvs's Avatar
foxgluvs foxgluvs is offline
From Flab to Fab!
Posts: 11,752
 
Plan: Fat Flush / SB
Stats: 300/225/185 Female 5ft 8"
BF:No Thanks
Progress: 65%
Location: UK
Default Night Time Eating-Does The Carb Monster Come Out At Night?

[font=&quot]Hope this is ok to post here, sorry to the mods if it's not, I couldn't see anything in the links which would be in breach of this site....
Thought he makes some really intetresting points.

Night Time Eating And Fat Loss Revisted
Does The 'Carb Monster' Come Out At Night?

-----------------------------------------
Read this article online or post your
feedback on the blog at:

http://www.burnthefat.com/blog
----------------------------------------

"Eat breakfast like a king, eat lunch like a prince and eat dinner
like a pauper." This maxim can be attributed to nutrition writer
Adelle Davis, and since her passing in 1974, the advice to eat less
at night to help with fat loss has lived on and continued to circulate
in many different incarnations. This includes suggestions such as:

"Dont eat a lot before bedtime"
"Don't eat midnight snacks"
"Don't eat anything after 7pm"
"Don't eat any carbs at night"
"Don't eat any carbs after 3 pm"
and so on.

I too believe that eating lightly at night is usually very solid advice
for people seeking increased fat loss, especially for people who are
inactive at night. However, some fitness experts today, when they hear
"eat less at night", start screaming, Diet Voodoo!"

Opinions on this subject are definitely mixed. Many highly respected
experts strongly recommend eating less at night to improve fat loss,
while others suggest that it's only calories in vs calories out over
24 hours that matters.

The critics claim that it's ridiculous to cut off food intake at a certain
hour or to presume that "carbs turn to fat" at night as if there were some
kind of nocturnal carbohydrate gremlins waiting to shuttle calories into
fat cells when the moon is full. They suggest that if you eat less in the
morning and eat more at night, it all "balances itself out at the end of
the day."

Of course, food does not turn to fat just because it's eaten after a
certain
"cutoff hour" and carbs do not necessarily turn to fat at night either
(although there are hypotheses about low evening insulin sensitivity
having
some significance).

What we do know for certain is that the law of energy balance is with us
at
all hours of the day - and that bears some deeper consideration when you
consider that we expend the least energy when we are sleeping and many
people spend the entire evening watching TV.

I recently had the privilege of interviewing sports nutritionist and
dietician
Dan Benardot, PhD for our members-only fat loss support community at
http://www.BurnTheFatInnerCircle.com, and he gave us a very interesting
perspective on this.

Dr. Benardot said that thinking in terms of 24 hour energy balance may be
a seriously flawed and outdated concept. He says that the old 24-hour
model
of energy balance looks at calories in versus calories out in 24 hour
units.
However, what really happens is that your body allocates energy minute by
minute and hour by hour as your body's needs dictate, not at some
specified
24 hour end point.

I first heard this concept suggested by Dr. Fred Hatfield about 15 years
ago.
Hatfield explained how and why you should be thinking ahead to the next
three
hours and adjusting your energy intake accordingly.

Although it's not really a new idea, Dr. Benardot has recently taken this
concept to a much higher level of sophistication and he calls the new
paradigm,
"Within Day Energy Balance."

The Within Day Energy balance approach not only backs up the practice of
eating small meals approximately every three hours, AND the practice of
"nutrient timing" (which is why pre and post workout nutrition is such a
popular
topic today, and rightly so). it also suggests that we should adjust our
energy intake according to our activity.

Let's make the assumption most people come home from work, then plop on
the couch in front of the TV all night. Let's also assume that the
majority
of people go to bed late in the evening, usually around 10 pm, 11 pm or
midnight. Therefore, night-time is the period during which the least
energy
is being expended.

If this is true, then it's logical to suggest that one should not eat huge
amounts of calories at night, especially right before bed because that
would provide excess fuel at a time when it is not needed. The result is
increased likelihood of fat storage.

From the within day energy balance perspective, the advice to eat less at
night makes complete sense. Of course it also suggests that if you do
intense
training at night, then you should eat more at night to support that
activity.

Those stuck on a 24 hour model of energy expenditure would say timing of
energy intake doesnt matter as long as the total calories for the day are
in a deficit. But who ever decided that the body operates on a 24-hour
"DAY".

Try this test (or not!): Eat a 2500 calorie per day diet, with nothing for
breakfast, nothing before or after your morning workout, 500 calories for
lunch, 750 calories for dinner and 1250 calories before bedtime.

Now compare that to the SAME 2500 calorie diet with 6 small meals of
approximately 420 calories per meal and then tweak those meal sizes a
bit so that you eat a little more before and after your workout and a
little less later at night.

Both are 2500 calories per day. According to "a calorie is just a calorie"
and "24 hour energy balance" thinking, both diets will produce the same
results in performance, health and body composition. But will they?

Does your body really do a calculation at midnight and add up the day's
totals like a business man when he closes out the register at night? It's
a
lot more logical that energy is stored in real time and energy is burned
in real time, rather than accounted for at the end of each 24 hour period.

24 hour energy balance is just one way to academically sort calories so
you can understand it and count it in convenient units of time. This has
it's uses, as in calculating a daily calorie intake level for menu
planning purposes.

Ok, but enough about calories, what about the individual macronutrients?
Some people dont simply suggest eating fewer calories at night, they
suggest
you take your calorie cut specifically from CARBS rather than from all
macronutrients evenly across the board. Is there anything to it?

Well, there's more than one theory. The most commonly quoted theory has
to do with insulin.

The late bodybuilding guru Dan Duchaine was once asked by a competitor,

"I want to get cut up for an upcoming contest. Should I eat at night?
I heard I shouldn't eat carbs after 6:00 pm."

Duchaine answered:

"It's true that insulin sensitivity is lowest at night. Let's discuss what
is happening in your body that makes it dislike carbs at night. Cortisol,
a catabolic hormone, is highest at night. When cortisol is elevated, your
muscle cell insulin sensitivity is lowered."

More recently, David Barr wrote a tip on "lower carbs at night" for
the bodybuilding website, T-Nation. He said:

"Even when bulking, you don't want to start scarfing down Pop Tarts before
you go to bed. Our muscle insulin sensitivity decreases as the day wears
on,
meaning that we're more likely to generate a large insulin response from
ingesting carbs. Stated differently, we're more predisposed to adding fat
mass by eating carbs at night because our body doesn't handle the hormone
insulin as well as it does earlier in the day."

Mind you, Barr is a not a "voodoo" guy; he is a respected scientist who
also
happens to be well known as a "dogma destroyer" and "myth buster". and
Duchaine,
although he had a shady past and some run-ins with the law, was
nevertheless
highly respected by nearly all in the bodybuilding world for his
ahead-of-his-time
nutrition wisdom.

As a result of this advice, word got out in the bodybuilding and fitness
community that you should eat fewer carbs at night. Real world results
and the "test of time" have suggested that this is an effective strategy.
I also don't know a single nutrition or training expert who doesn't agree
that insulin management and improvement of insulin sensitivity aren't
effective approaches in the management of body fat.

However, it's only fair to point out that not all scientists agree that
cutting carbs at night will have any major real world impact on fat loss.
Dr. Benardot, for example, doesn't think there's much to it. He says that
exercisers and athletes in particular, usually have excellent glycemic
control, so the ratio of macronutrients should not be as much of an issue
as the total energy balance in relation to energy needs at a particular
time.

Regardless of which side of the "carbs at night" debate you lean towards,
if you consider the within day energy balance principle, it make perfect
sense not to eat large, calorie-dense meals late at night before bedtime.

Keep in mind of course, that cutting back on your calories and or carbs
at night makes the most sense in the context of a fat loss program,
especially
if fat loss has been slow. It's quite possible that I might give the exact
opposite advice (eat a big meal before bed) to the skinny "ectomorph"
who is having a hard time gaining muscular body weight.

Also consider that this doesn't necessarily mean eating nothing at night;
it may simply mean eating smaller meals or emphasizing lean protein and
green veggies (or a small protein shake) at night.

Many programs suggest a specific time when you should eat your last meal
of the day. However, I'd suggest avoiding an absolute cut off time, such
as "no food or no carbs after 6 pm, etc," because people go to bed at
different times, and maintenance of steady blood sugar and an optimal
hormonal balance even at night are also important goals.

A more personalized suggestion is to cut off food intake 3 hours before
bedtime, if practical and possible. For example, if you eat dinner at 6
pm,
but don't go to bed until 12 midnight, then a small 9:00 pm meal or a
snack
makes sense, but keep it light, preferably lean protein, and dont raid the
refrigerator at 11:55!

An important rule to remember in all cases, is that whatever is working,
keep doing more of it. If you eat your largest meal before bed and lose
fat anyway, I would never tell you to change that. Results are what
counts.
On the other hand, if you're stuck at a fat loss plateau, this is a
technique
I'd suggest you give a try.

Night time eating is likely to remain a subject of debate - especially the
part about whether carbs should be targeted for removal in evening meals.

However, perhaps even those who are skeptical can consider, that if
cutting
out carbs at night is effective for fat loss, it may be for the simple
reason
that it forces you to eat less automatically.

In other words, setting a rule to eat fewer calories or to eat fewer carbs
at night may be a superbly effective way to keep your daily calories in
check
and to match intake to activity, whereas people who are allowed to eat ad
libitum at night when they're home, glued to the couch and watching TV,
etc.,
may tend to overeat when the energy is not needed in large amounts.

Me personally? Unless I'm weight training at night, I have always reduced
calories and carbs at night when "cutting" for bodybuilding competition.
It's worked so well for me that I devoted a whole section to it in my
e-book,
Burn The Fat, Feed The Muscle (BFFM) and I have names for the techniques:
"calorie tapering" and "carb tapering."

For more information on how I use these methods to help me reach single
digit
body fat, you can visit: http://www.BurnTheFat.com

Train hard and expect success.

Tom Venuto, NSCA-CPT, CSCS
http://www.BurnTheFat.com
http://www.BurnTheFatInnerCircle.com

PS. for more information on within day energy balance, become a member of
our inner circle at http://www.BurnTheFatInnerCircle.com where you can
read our
exclusive with Dr. Benardot and join in the discussions. I also recommend
Dr. Benardot's book, advanced sports nutrition , available at Amazon.com
and better bookstores

PPS. Dr. Benardot has a brand new online software application that tracks
within day energy balance using a highly sophisticated algorithm. I havent
tried it yet, but it looks very interesting. the website is:
http://www.SportsNutritionClinic.com[/font]
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Sun, Feb-18-07, 20:51
evenik evenik is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 163
 
Plan: My Own
Stats: 175/148.8/140 Female 5'5''
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: CT
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxgluvs
[font=&quot]

Duchaine answered:

"It's true that insulin sensitivity is lowest at night. Let's discuss what
is happening in your body that makes it dislike carbs at night. Cortisol,
a catabolic hormone, is highest at night
. When cortisol is elevated, your
muscle cell insulin sensitivity is lowered."





In a healthy human cortisol levels are highest at 6-8 am and lowest beween midnight and 2 am.

I think there is a rational explanation for not eating carbs at night, but that is not it.

Another interesting thing is that eating carbs causes a release of serotonin, which induce calm, happy, relaxed state. It would make sense to use this benefit before going to bed rather than in the morning, when you have to be alert and energetic.
What are your thoughts on this?

Last edited by evenik : Sun, Feb-18-07 at 21:00.
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Mon, Feb-19-07, 10:14
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7,320
 
Plan: Atkins/ Protein Power
Stats: 225/176.5/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 97%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

I limit my carbs at all times.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Mon, Feb-19-07, 10:18
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 5,550
 
Plan: VLC + Fasting
Stats: 236/181/175 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 90%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Default

Some carbs at night help with sleep in my opinion, by some I mean half a cup of plain yogurt, a couple slices of raw sweet potato or a small amount of lower carb fruit. I try to avoid carbs during the day even before exercise.
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Mon, Feb-19-07, 10:27
Snacky's Avatar
Snacky Snacky is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 225
 
Plan: atkins/keckwick
Stats: 282/248/210 Male 73
BF:%/34%/25%
Progress: 47%
Location: KC area
Default

I saw a lady on tv, discovery health channel, and she did this, not LC but not real carby either, she ate dinner for breakfast smaller lunch, and small dinner before 3pm. She lost a TON of weight this way. I am trying to not eat later than 4 or 5.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Mon, Feb-19-07, 10:48
Judynyc's Avatar
Judynyc Judynyc is offline
Posts: 21,979
 
Plan: SBD-MYWAY!!!
Stats: 274/154/160 Female 5'8"
BF:stl/too/mch
Progress: 105%
Location: NYC
Default

FWIW...I snack nightly and have all through my weight loss journey.

I really do think that its a YMMV kind of thing and its up to the individual to figure out what works best for their body.

I have trouble falling asleep, a common issue in peri and menopause. I too find that a carby snack helps to get me to sleep.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Mon, Feb-19-07, 11:38
evenik evenik is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 163
 
Plan: My Own
Stats: 175/148.8/140 Female 5'5''
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: CT
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_d
Some carbs at night help with sleep in my opinion, by some I mean half a cup of plain yogurt, a couple slices of raw sweet potato or a small amount of lower carb fruit. I try to avoid carbs during the day even before exercise.


I avoid carbs during the day to improve my work perfomance. Couple of times I went out to lunch with my coworkers and ate more carbs than I usually do (not a whole lot, maybe 25 instead of usual 10-15). When I returned to work I had no focus or motivation to do anything. I was not sleepy, but my mental state was certainly worse than before lunch.
Maybe from a weight-loss perspective it is better to have more carbs during a day than at night, but I find it difficult to do.
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Mon, Feb-19-07, 11:43
foxgluvs's Avatar
foxgluvs foxgluvs is offline
From Flab to Fab!
Posts: 11,752
 
Plan: Fat Flush / SB
Stats: 300/225/185 Female 5ft 8"
BF:No Thanks
Progress: 65%
Location: UK
Default

Quote:
a couple slices of raw sweet potato




Did you know that raw sweet potato contains compounds that form cyanide in the stomach of rats....?
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Mon, Feb-19-07, 14:05
diemde's Avatar
diemde diemde is offline
Posts: 7,547
 
Plan: lower carb
Stats: 333/199.8/172 Female 5'8"
BF:??/39.0/25
Progress: 83%
Location: Central Ohio
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by evenik
In a healthy human cortisol levels are highest at 6-8 am and lowest beween midnight and 2 am.

How is this determined? What about people who work 2nd or 3rd shift and sleep in later? Or is this related to sunrise? ...just curious...
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Mon, Feb-19-07, 20:52
evenik evenik is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 163
 
Plan: My Own
Stats: 175/148.8/140 Female 5'5''
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: CT
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by diemde
How is this determined? What about people who work 2nd or 3rd shift and sleep in later? Or is this related to sunrise? ...just curious...


It can be determined easily by blood tests. Normal production of cortisol is highest in the morning and decreases through the day - so called circadian adrenocortical rhythm.
People who have to work at night have to get used to this schedule. After a while their circadian rhythm shifts, but the pattern remains the same: the highest cortisol levels at a wake time (whatever that time is) and the lowest at a bedtime. Generally it is much easier to do 2nd or 3d shift jobs when you are younger (and your adrenals adapt fast). Some people can not adapt at all (unfortunately I am one of them).

I do not know much about sunrise/sunset regulation of our cortisol production. It certainly affects melatonin production which can have some influence on adrenal glands. I have to do some research on that to be sure.
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Tue, Feb-20-07, 04:42
Bandito's Avatar
Bandito Bandito is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 533
 
Plan: Generic LC
Stats: 212/157/135 Female 5'7
BF:
Progress: 71%
Location: Oregon
Default

Thought I may add somthing here....

I work 12 hour night shifts. I tend to stay on this schedual and am awake during the night on my days off. Note the time of this post. lol

Since starting nights, I have been having a very hard time with staying on track. I have put on a few to say the least.

I was talking about this with one of the other nurses and she said that when she took a month off and went back to "day living" that she lost 12lbs! without changing what or how much she ate. Just simpley eating during daytime hours as opposed to eating the biggest two meals of the day/night between the hours of 10pm and 7:30am.

I think that there may be somthing to this........
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 14:30.


Copyright © 2000-2010 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.