Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Daily Low-Carb Support > Atkins Diet
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Sat, Jul-24-04, 07:50
JoeMama JoeMama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 559
 
Plan: Not really anything now
Stats: 308/286.6/182 Male 6'0"
BF:
Progress: 17%
Location: Houston, TX USA
Question Liver Enzimes and Atkins

I hope someone can answer this question...

Went to the hospital a couple days ago. (Different story).. but part of the outcome was that cholesterol was lower (woohoo!!)

They also said that my liver enzimes (SGPT) was up to 122 where max healthy should be 65.

What does this mean for being on induction??? Is atkins too rough on my liver?

They say that SGPT could be elevated by taking tylenol, can asprin do the same thing?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Sat, Jul-24-04, 07:55
RickinTN's Avatar
RickinTN RickinTN is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,502
 
Plan: Powerfood Nutrition Plan
Stats: 416/366/166 Male 70"
BF:49%/??/11%
Progress: 20%
Location: Bristol, TN USA
Default

I wish I had an answer for you. If you are on any kind of antacids such as Pepcid, Zantac, Axis, etc. they can affect your liver. The only kind of antacid the doctor told me I could take was Prilosec which doesn't affect it.
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Sat, Jul-24-04, 08:19
tofi's Avatar
tofi tofi is offline
Posts: 6,205
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 244/220/170 Female 65.4inches
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Ontario
Default

Tylenol and aspirin relieve pain through completely different pathways. I believe that only Tylenol can hurt your liver if taken in too large doses or for too long. Aspirin affects clotting and can damage the stomach lining. (Nothing is simple).

Having an infection can affect your liver enzymes so perhaps that's what it was.

One thing that might help is "milk thistle". It has no known drug interactions or side effects and supports liver function and health.

The husband of a friend had a kind of hepatitis that you just have to live through - no treatment - and hope you get better. She got him to take fairly large doses of milk thistle and his doctor was completely amazed at how quickly his liver enzyme tests returned to normal!

I took it leading up to my second hip operation and was able to manage the drugs and anaesthetic much better than the first time when I was mostly zonked for 3 days and didn't eat at all. The second time, I was awake that night, and ate the next day. Surprised my family by telephoning the next morning to say hello. Needless to say, I started it again as soon as I was out of the hospital. (Don't take any herbs for the week before surgery as many of them have interactions with drugs you are going to get or blood thinning or other problems.)

So that would be my suggestion.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Sat, Jul-24-04, 08:29
MyJourney's Avatar
MyJourney MyJourney is offline
Butter Tastes Better
Posts: 5,201
 
Plan: Atkins OWL / IF-23/1 /BFL
Stats: 100/100/100 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: SF Bay Area
Default

AST (SGOT) and ALT (SGPT) are sensitive indicators of liver damage from different types of disease. But it must be emphasized that higher-than-normal levels of these liver enzymes should not be automatically equated with liver disease. They may mean liver problems or they may not. The interpretation of elevated AST and ALT levels depends upon the whole clinical picture and so it is best done by doctors experienced in evaluating liver disease.

The precise levels of these enzymes do not correlate well with the extent of liver damage or the prognosis (outlook). Thus, the exact levels of AST (SGOT) and ALT (SGPT) cannot be used to determine the degree of liver disease or predict the future. For example, patients with acute viral hepatitis A may develop very high AST and ALT levels (sometimes in the thousands of units/liter range). But most patients with acute viral hepatitis A recover fully without residual liver disease. For a contrasting example, patients with chronic hepatitis C infection typically have only a little elevation in their AST and ALT levels. Some of these patients may have quietly developed chronic liver disease such as chronic hepatitis and cirrhosis (advanced scarring of the liver).

The highest levels of AST and ALT are found with disorders that cause the death of numerous liver cells (extensive hepatic necrosis). This occurs in such conditions as acute viral hepatitis A or B, pronounced liver damage inflicted by toxins as from an overdose of acetaminophen (brand-name Tylenol), and prolonged collapse of the circulatory system (shock) when the liver is deprived of fresh blood bringing oxygen and nutrients. AST and ALT serum levels in these situations can range anywhere from ten times the upper limits of normal to thousands of units/liter.

Mild to moderate elevations of the liver enzymes are commonplace. They are often unexpectedly encountered on routine blood screening tests in otherwise healthy individuals. The AST and ALT levels in such cases are usually between twice the upper limits of normal and several hundred units/liter.

The most common cause of mild to moderate elevations of these liver enzymes is fatty liver. In the United States, the most frequent cause of fatty liver is alcohol abuse. Other causes of fatty liver include diabetes mellitus and obesity. Chronic hepatitis C is also becoming an important cause of mild to moderate liver enzyme elevations.

A host of medications can cause abnormal liver enzymes levels. Examples include:

Pain relief medications such as aspirin, acetaminophen (Tylenol), ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin), neproxen (Narosyn), diclofenac (Voltaren), and phenybutazone (Butazolidine)
Anti-seizure medications such as phenytoin (Dilantin), valproic acid, carbamazepine (Tegretol), and phenobarbital
Antibiotics such as the tetracyclines, sulfonamides, isoniazid (INH), sulfamethoxazole, trimethoprim, nitrofurantoin, etc.
Cholesterol lowering drugs such as the "statins" (Mevacor, Pravachol, Lipitor, etc.) and niacin
Cardiovascular drugs such as amiodarone (Cordarone), hydralazine, quinidine, etc.
Anti-depressant drugs of the tricyclic type


With drug-induced liver enzyme abnormalities, the enzymes usually normalize weeks to months after stopping the medications.

Evaluation of healthy patients with abnormal liver enzymes needs to be individualized. A doctor may ask for blood test data from old records for comparison. If no old records are available, the doctor may repeat blood tests in weeks to months to see whether these abnormalities persist. The doctor will search for risk factors for hepatitis B and C including sexual exposures, history of blood transfusions, injectable drug use, and occupational exposure to blood products. A family history of liver disease may raise the possibility of inherited diseases such as hemachromatosis, Wilson's disease, or alpha-1- antitrypsin deficiency.


The pattern of liver enzyme abnormalities can provide useful clues to the cause of the liver disease. For example, the majority of patients with alcoholic liver disease have enzyme levels that are not as high as the levels reached with acute viral hepatitis and the AST tends to be above the ALT. Thus, in alcoholic liver disease, AST is usually under 300 units/liter while the ALT is usually under 100 units/ liter.

If alcohol or medication is responsible for the abnormal liver enzyme levels, stopping alcohol or the medication (under a doctor's supervision only) should bring the enzyme levels to normal or near normal levels in weeks to months. If obesity is suspected as the cause of fatty liver, weight reduction of 5% to 10% should also bring the liver enzyme levels to normal or near normal levels.

If abnormal liver enzymes persist despite abstinence from alcohol, weight reduction and stopping certain suspected drugs, blood tests can be performed to help diagnose treatable liver diseases. The blood can be tested for the presence of hepatitis B and C virus and their related antibodies. Blood levels of iron, iron saturation, and ferritin (another measure of the amount of iron stored in the body) are usually elevated in patients with hemachromatosis. Blood levels of a substance called ceruloplasmin are usually decreased inpatients with Wilson's disease. Blood levels of certain antibodies (anti- nuclear antibody or ANA, anti-smooth muscle antibody, and anti-liver and kidney microsome antibody) are elevated in patients with autoimmune hepatitis.

Ultrasound and CAT scan of the abdomen are sometimes used to exclude tumors in the liver or other conditions such as gallstones or tumors obstructing the ducts that drain the liver.

Liver biopsy is a procedure where a needle is inserted through the skin over the right upper abdomen to obtain a thin strand of liver tissue to be examined under a microscope. The procedure is oftentimes performed after ultrasound study has located the liver. Not everybody with abnormal liver enzymes needs a liver biopsy. The doctor will usually recommend this procedure if 1) the information obtained from the liver biopsy will likely be helpful in planning treatment, 2) the doctor needs to know the extent and severity of liver inflammation/damage, or 3) to evaluate the effectiveness of treatment.

Liver biopsy is most useful in confirming a diagnosis of a potentially treatable condition. These potentially treatable liver diseases include chronic hepatitis B and C, hemachromatosis, Wilson's disease, autoimmune hepatitis, and alpha-1-antitrypsin deficiency.

http://www.medicinenet.com/liver_blood_tests/page3.htm
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Sat, Jul-24-04, 08:34
MyJourney's Avatar
MyJourney MyJourney is offline
Butter Tastes Better
Posts: 5,201
 
Plan: Atkins OWL / IF-23/1 /BFL
Stats: 100/100/100 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: SF Bay Area
Default

It doesnt seem like something to really worry about just yet.

Being obese can cause elevated liver enzymes as well as alcohol, tylenol, aspirin, motrin and other pain reliever drugs also antibiotics, anti depressants, 'Statins' Cholesterol lowering drugs and many others.

Have you had your levels tested before?
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Sat, Jul-24-04, 08:42
tofi's Avatar
tofi tofi is offline
Posts: 6,205
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 244/220/170 Female 65.4inches
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Ontario
Default

That's a great article, MyJourney. Thanks for posting factual material.

By the way, I was reading a study the other day which indicated that milk thistle was protective against the damaging effect of taking lots of Tylenol.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Sat, Jul-24-04, 09:47
JoeMama JoeMama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 559
 
Plan: Not really anything now
Stats: 308/286.6/182 Male 6'0"
BF:
Progress: 17%
Location: Houston, TX USA
Default

That is a good article, thanks for posting it.

So are you saying that the fact that I am:

1) Diabetic
2) Obese
3) Take asprin a day

All contribute to my liver enzimes being high? Is 122 too high, should I be worried at this point? I guess according to the article, it's rather common, right?
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Sat, Jul-24-04, 11:02
MyJourney's Avatar
MyJourney MyJourney is offline
Butter Tastes Better
Posts: 5,201
 
Plan: Atkins OWL / IF-23/1 /BFL
Stats: 100/100/100 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: SF Bay Area
Default

according to the article it seems that 122 is commonplace and moderately elevated.

It seems that many problems will cause them to go into the thousands.

but yes, the fact that you are diabetic, obese and take aspirin daily will help contribute to that.

Low carbing should help weight loss and the diabetes and maybe in a few months you should get your levels retested and see the effect it has?

You may want to show the article to your doctor and discuss it with him/her if you are really concerned.

What did it seem like his/her initial reaction was like? Was he/she concerned or was it more like stop taking tylenol and not a big deal?

Is your doc supportive of Atkins?
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Sat, Jul-24-04, 11:26
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 28,951
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 230/197.2/140 Female 5'5½"
BF:yes
Progress: 36%
Location: ONT Canada
Default

If there were serious liver problems, the ALT/SGPT would be greatly elevated, to 10 x normal. Even with chronic hepatitis, the levels are elevated to 4 x normal.

ALT isn't only produced by the liver. Small amounts are released from muscles if there is injury there .. including microtears to muscle tissue caused by intense exercise. I noticed in some previous posts you've moved recently. Have you been doing a lot of heavy lifting, and maybe pulled a muscle or two? That might explain the elevation as well, since it's not that high.

Just a thought


Doreen
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Sat, Jul-24-04, 11:58
black57 black57 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,014
 
Plan: atkins/intermit. fasting
Stats: 166/136/135 Female 5'3''
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: Orange, California
Default

I have no information but I do have a comment.

I find it amazing that medical professionals give us a diagnosis and we have to come here to find out what that diagnosis means.
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Sat, Jul-24-04, 20:48
JoeMama JoeMama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 559
 
Plan: Not really anything now
Stats: 308/286.6/182 Male 6'0"
BF:
Progress: 17%
Location: Houston, TX USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by black57
I have no information but I do have a comment.
I find it amazing that medical professionals give us a diagnosis and we have to come here to find out what that diagnosis means.


I find it amazing too.

But in their defence, I actually went into the emergency room because I was not feeling well (I was having chest pains and I wanted to be safe rather than sorry). All ended up well, no heart attack (whew!) But the Dr. after doing a bunch of tests, told me my liver enzimes were up and that I need to follow up with my Primary care Dr. So they never really said why I was feeling like I was feeling.

Unfortunately, I just moved to this state and have not yet chosen a Dr. But that is going to happen rather quickly.
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Sat, Jul-24-04, 20:57
JoeMama JoeMama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 559
 
Plan: Not really anything now
Stats: 308/286.6/182 Male 6'0"
BF:
Progress: 17%
Location: Houston, TX USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doreen T
I noticed in some previous posts you've moved recently. Have you been doing a lot of heavy lifting, and maybe pulled a muscle or two? That might explain the elevation as well, since it's not that high.


Yes, actually (now that you mention it) I have been the one doing the heavy lifting in our move. Mostly because I was the only one that could do it. That may be an expaination, but you think it would stay elevated after 2 weeks?

Makes sense though if it is costal chondritis (Costochondritis).
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Sat, Jul-24-04, 22:14
black57 black57 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,014
 
Plan: atkins/intermit. fasting
Stats: 166/136/135 Female 5'3''
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: Orange, California
Default

Joe, glad that there was no heart attack. Hope you find a good Primary care physician, soon.
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Sun, Jul-25-04, 01:19
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 28,339
 
Plan: Hedonic Paleo
Stats: 209.5/170.4/165 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 88%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

My doctor told me that even having one drink the night before a blood test you can have elevated liver enzymes.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:37.


Copyright © 2000-2010 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.