I understand you....i have had those looks before (when i was in cali with my BFF cousin and hes like really cute to girls because hes black with light eyes and we were in this burger joint sitting down and these chicks kept looking at me and rolling their eyes cuz they thought we were dating i guess)....i have looked at people that way before.....like he is so cute why is he with HER....i hated when during prom time everyone wanted to set me up with this guy who was freakin HIT!!!!!!! and im like just because im fat i should have to go to prom with this freak......Im sick of feeling like i should date below my expectations because im bigger than what the media says is beautiful...sorry i had to vent a lil....but im glad you could help your husband....this WHOLE SUPPORT FORUM has helped me to lose the 23 i have so far....ive learned diffrent things through diffrent forums..because i sure have ZERO support where i live.

AntiM--Great Post --thank you!!!
Joanee--Great Post--thank you!
Nikki--I really like your way of thinking --if you don't mind I would like to stop by your journal.
MisterE--Always the voice of reason--thank you!!
Kyrssi--everytime I see your posts they are always confrontional--why is that?

From the time I was in kindergarden I have been abused and harrassed by other school children and why?? just because I was fat.
I was called horrible names and why??? just because I was fat.
I was pushed off my bicycle and punched and kicked on a regular basis and why?? just because i was fat.
I was told be a family member on a daily basis that I would never amount to anything and would never marry and why?? just because I was fat.
I was sexual abused as a child and why?? because there are pedaphiles roaming.
People refuse to except my husband and I have been an outcast in both my family and my husbands family and why?? I am white and he is black.
DO YOU GET ME NOW? NO?? Well I don't expect anyone too!!
There are people that will never understand what i have been thru in life and I would never expect them to get it.

(just wanted to add) for those of you I did not mention by name--I am sorry. For the most part-- everyone that has posted has shared a part of themselves that will make a difference to someone else so thanks!

As one of the largest people here...when I see someone post about how they need to lose 5 or 10 pounds, I read thier post and then think 'I *wish*' as in 'I wish that was me'

I also worry about the ones who have obvious eating disorders (you can pretty much tell who those people are after reading several of thier posts).

Anyway that is my thoughts on the matter. I hope to be one of those people one day.

I've wanted to stay out of this, but I have some insight that may be important.

Kryssi asked:


No, because it happens all the time. Every time someone new to the forums describes their 160, 180, 200 lb self as a disgusting slob, fat pig, disgustingly obese... that cuts us. Because if they are disgusting at less than my goal weight, where does that leave me?

I just have to decide not to take it personally, because of the context, and move on.

There are people with "issues" on both sides of the fence. If you've been insulted and made fun of for your physical appearance your whole life, you see attacks where they may not be.

I think taking a deep breath is in order... after all, Kryssi is NOT coming in to be insulting and there's no good in taking ALL our frustration out on her because of what a thousand other thin people do.

Think of the ways it's possible to hurt someone's feelings without ever meaning to. I remember back in my skinny teen years, being in the mall with a great friend. I saw a shirt I wanted to look at in a store, so I piped up "Lets go in here!". Amy stopped in her tracks and said "I'll wait out here."

The store happened to be a "5-7-9" store. Back in those days, it was the eqivalent of a store that handles only the smallest sizes. I honestly didn't SEE what store it was, or even consider her weight... I never actually SAW her weight as a factor, just my friend. The fact that she was over 200 lbs just didn't register.

That didn't make HER feel much better, though. Sometimes, when you're the odd one out, even the nice things a person says can make it worse. I stammered a bit and said "It's okay... I didn't notice the place... lets just keep going..." But then she felt bad for saying anything about it.

Now that I'm on the other end of the weight spectrum, I can begin to understand, even though I'm older now, and my priorities are different then they were as a teen. I didn't fit in because I was an oddball from the wrong side of the tracks, but there was no WAY I could have understood Amy's pain, even though I loved her dearly. I understood what it was like to feel pain when they taunted my Dad about his weight, to the point he became housebound and eventually died of complications of stomach stapling... but I have no clue how much pain HE felt.

My point, and I DO have one....

Sometimes, even the offer of sympathy to someone in a struggle can hurt. We can all be blinded by our own issues and no matter HOW well-intended the other person is, we can lash out. Either way. I can vouch for the fact life isn't a perfect, easy ride just because you fit in a size 6, nor is it miserable because you're in a 26.

Some days, when I hear "fat pig", I can walk by and chalk it up to ignorance on their part, and some days it cuts like a knife and I HAVE to give them a piece of my mind...

Batspit, I really did mean that to say that if a thin person were to call someone that name...like so many posts I have seen around. It's horrendous and it makes people like me look bad.

And to you Puddypark...my posts in here have been in "defense" to direct insults made towards people like me. Take the time to read the thread all the way through and then read my posts to see where I'm coming from.

My posts outside of this thread are supporting and encouraging, sad and funny etc. How could you make such a rash generalization without going through all of the posts I have made since I've been a member. Click on the button that shows my posts and you'll think differently. Even in my posts in here, I have been supportive had you read them all the way through.

And you do NOT own heartache...sorry to tell you.

I was made fun of because I was poor.
I was physically, sexually, and mentally abused by my stepfather.
My oldest daughter died almost two years ago at 17 in a car accident.


So, for people to judge that people like me are vain because we have a problem with that "extra" 10 lbs is ridiculous. It might be the only thing we have control over in our lives. Please consider that before you post.

What you don't get Kryssi is that you assumed this thread was about you (or people like you). It's about how the TDC people FEEL when they see a NEW member say they are so DEPRESSED because they have 10 lbs to lose. Does any of this describe you? Are you depressed about having to lose 10 lbs? Do you whine and complain about it as if your life depended on it? No? Well then, this thread is NOT about you (or people like you). Whether you like it or not it's hard for a TDC member to understand how needing to lose 10 lbs could ever be depressing. Ten lbs is a small hill compared to the mountain we must climb. Doesn't make either one of us better but it does change our perspective. So when someone says they are devastated and depressed because they feel fat at being 10 lbs over, it's just plain annoying. We are not discriminating on someone who has 10 lbs to lose. If you gain 10 lbs then it's best to take control of it now and get it off again as soon as you can. We are discriminating about the lamenting of particular members who started with ten lbs to lose. When it's whinny or overly dramatic it's annoying. I frankly can't stomach any whiny people no matter what their size or weight.

Needing to lose a small amount of weight does not automatically make some one a self centered, shallow person. Everyone gets that. But you must admit that there are shallow and self centered people out there that do whine about a few lbs.
Ultimately this was about how we FELT about those people's behavor, not about the fact of the matter, or who they truely are. Why do you need to crusade about how people feel?

You keep saying you want people to drop this. You do know that you could drop it at anytime yourself. But it occurs to me that you may not be able to let someone else have the last word.

Julie Huck

I hated to do this but I guess I have to.
Kryssi-I never said that I had the corner marketed for heartache! I was stating facts that are true and that is all. I have no regrets about my life and I came to terms about life a very long time ago. As I can never comment on what you have had to go thru. I have been reading your post and I have read them all the way thru -so please don't judge- you are very defensive and confrontational. I know that you became a member around the same time I did and you have been the same ever since. and if you are so mad at all of "us" why are you still fighting?
It is truly sad that such an innocent topic as had to turn into something so nasty.
I didn't know that when people expressed their "feelings" they would be shamed or made to think like everyone expects them to.

First, thanks everyone for your thoughtful, heartfelt posts on this emotionally charged thread. I'm really enjoying reading both sides of this debate.



leasmom ~ I have a comment on the above statement ... I do believe people seen as 'normal' weight in this world can gain a lot from reading about our experiences. Just as we've probably wised up about various issue that don't affect us directly. Reading about prejudice of many types has made me more empathetic to the challenges of marginalized people.

That's why I posted that monster essay ... and references. I know it was over the top, but too often people assume it's "all in our heads". Like we're exaggerating when we say the playing field isn't even. I would never presume to think that we larger folks own all bias, but a significant chunk of it co-exists with us.

I truly welcome support from anyone ... but I strongly disagree that there is no difference in the experience of being very fat and more 'normal' size when it comes to weight loss.


Hey Cutie ~ I would never be mad at you for 'taking sides'. Standing up for what you believe in is essential. Here is my answer:

Good: Skinny girl trying to comfort a fat person
Fine: Fat person with pictures of skinny people to help motivate them
Downright Sad: Fat person with pictures of other fat folks to scare them

As for me ... my home has dozens of images of fat women. I need to mirror back to myself that women of every size - including my own - are beautiful. I won't suddenly become stunning when I hit my goal weight ... I'm gorgeous right now. { No self esteem problems this morning, apparently! }

Potatofree ~ Are you Sandy, my best friend in junior high? I *totally* had the exact same experience with the dang '5-7-9' shop. There were times when it was a little difficult weighing 250 at 6' and having your closest friend stand 5' and weigh 100 pounds.

Krissi ~ {I'm so sorry you lost your daughter.} What a tragedy for any parent. On a side note, I took a peak at your gallery a while back. It's mind blowing to me that you were ever pregnant with your figure ... let alone 19 years ago!


--------

And to the many people who have given me positive feedback on my huge, rant-y post ... Thank you!

wow, this has been a fascinating read. to be honest, i think everybody here is speaking honestly and courageously, and i think that any hurt caused/offence given/taken has been through misunderstanding. i don't want to get into that, although i would like to voice my respect for joanee's eloquence, and for krissy's honesty and commitment.

i want to add my 2 cents to the original question. i don't know why i don't post that often in the TDC, because i'm definitely a TDCer. maybe because when i first joined the board i'd lost my first 50 pounds or so. But yes, I have experienced pretty much all the miserable things that the various TDCers have given as examples of what the very obese have to suffer. The reason I started low carbing in 2001 was because i was at rock bottom. i was turning into a hermit, i was so miserable about the way i looked, and the way i was treated or feared being treated because of that. i was terrified that it would just end up like every other diet and even if i did manage to succeed temporarily ultimately i'd just put the weight back on and more, and i'd end up even heavier, but i had to try something because life was becoming unliveable. that was when i was 240 pounds (and i'm short). But you know something? I didn't feel *all* that different when I was a few years younger and weighed 180 pounds. Heck, I was sure I was fat and unacceptable when I was 11 and I was 100 pounds! Because of the way I was treated, because of the way my parents pushed me to lose weight even before I needed to. That, combined with bullying at school convinced me I was unworthy even though to the outside world I wasn't actually fat (yet).

Three years ago, four years ago, before I lost any weight at all, I was living with a friend. Now this girl had the most fantastic figure you can imagine. Before we lived together we were friends, but not close friends. Once we started living together we got much closer, and even now, after she's got married and we no longer live together, we're very close. It used to cut me up inside when she would finish a meal and express her feeling that she'd eaten too much by saying "I feel obese." When she used to complain about feeling fat. I was literally double her size; how was I supposed to feel about that? BUT. In the process of us becoming closer friends, I discovered that she is a recovered anorexic. In our discussions of body image, I came to realise that even people who look stunning on the outside might have body image issues as serious as my own. Oh, she never had to face the cruelty and rejection I had to face. She had to deal with her own psychological demons but would never have to face the ordeal of looking at a weight loss journey that seemed so long it was almost not worth starting. But I grew to respect the fact that the unlikeliest people might really have serious issues about themselves, even if to me I'd give almost anything to have their bodies.

My friend can, in a weird way, relate to my body issues, even though she's never experienced them. Although I do agree with Joannee on the mutuality thing; she still can't really give mutual support to me as she hasn't been where I've had to go. She has just had her first baby and she was scared to death of the weight gain, and losing weight afterwards, and whether she'd be able to without dieting - because if she tries to diet the anorexic mentality starts to take over so she has to avoid it. She has a different road to mine, but we can sympathise with each others roads.

I *do* find it hard to relate to someone on here who wants to lose 10 pounds, although I wish them luck with it. But in a way, it's impossible to know how much pain those 10 pounds has caused that person.

And as someone who is at the tail-end of their journey and has already lost the majority of the weight needed, thank you all for your support I think it would be a dream come true for someone to ask me "but why are you watching what you eat" as if to say, you're a thin person. I'll be the thin person (if I"m *ever* a thin person) who has spent the majority of her life obese.

I'm not sure if there were many points in that ramble, or none, so I'll stop now, because I could go on forever, and then you'd all get bored

Deborah

I'll tell you what I feel about this. This thread belongs in the "War Zone." This is supposed to be a support forum, and this thread has caused nothing but strife. That is just my 2 cents.

Ok, I read the whole thread with interest, and I find myself having to comment. I agree with what the lady said here (above) the point that the first poster was making was not directed at people like KryssiMc, it was a general "thinking out loud" comment.
I get just as irritated by someone who goes on and on about not losing weight if they have 100lb to lose, or 10lb.
It makes no difference to me what a person has to lose, we are all here for one common reason, and that's to lose weight, wether that be 100lbs, 20lb or 5lb.
The point is, each to their own.
People are always going to look at me and think fat bitch until I lose more weight - but that's a fact of life, there's nothing i can do or say to change that persons opinion of me, just in the same way, if someone thinks 10lb isn't a lot to lose and that you're a skinny bitch then you have to deal with that.

I know which I would prefer!! I think some people have turned this comment into a personal slur, and I don't think it was ever intended as such.

Why? Isn't it okay for us to look at the tough issues around being TDC members? IMHO support isn't always about sweetness and light. It's also about sharing the deep emotions and conflicts within ourselves, the ones that surround our mutual experiences as fat folks?

The OP asked us how we feel about people who only need to lose 10 pounds. This wasn't a thread like "My BF thinks my butt is too big", where I would expect that there would be lots of straight forward

I feel the only reason a thread like this should be re-assigned to the War Zone is if we can't keep civil. So far, I haven't read anything that breaches that barrier.

It's gotten pretty close.

sure go right ahead my journal is open to the public....and i wanna add my two cents...now if 49 more people add their 2 cents we can have a dollar YEAH