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  #1036   ^
Old Mon, Aug-03-09, 22:45
lowcrbgirl's Avatar
lowcrbgirl lowcrbgirl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 160
 
Plan: PP/Atkins/IF Maintenance
Stats: 195/138/140 Female 66"
BF:33%/20%
Progress: 104%
Location: Seattle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiredangel
Diabetes, if it is preventable in many cases, or if it can be postponed with diet, why is this a BAD thing? Of course, no one is going to put it off or avoid it following the standard things we are taught. The American Diabetes Association and many endocrinologists and nutritionists just follow the party of line of animal fat bad, sugar not as bad.


It isn't just preventable but as long as it isn't type I it can be reveresable.

My case in point....when I ended up in the hospital ER very ill I had a blood sample drawn (this was after more than 24 hours of not only not eating but my body ejecting things from both end in very violent ways) and my sugar came up as 298 to be exact. This was almost 11 years ago and I still remember that number. I was given a prescription (that I ended up never filling). In the drug store, that day, I saw Protein Power by Drs. Mary Dan and Michael Eades and started skimming through it. I decided to buy it instead of the expensive drug (I had no insurance). I read their work and it made sense. I also read Atkins and modified PP with that. Within 4 weeks my FBS was under 175. A few more weeks later and it was under 150. Within a couple of months I had a normal FBS and haven't looked back since.

Now my FBS is usually around 90 and my BS hasn't gone above 110 in over a decade. Why, because I gained some knowledge, accepted it as my previous dietary choices of the past (oh and I was a vegetarian so not exactly what most would call unhealthy), which though not candy or refined carbs for many years, but still carbs which = sugar and changed it. In doing this I cured myself of a debilitating disease along with several others that also went bye bye.

The ADA even admits that carbs cause an increase in blood sugar but still recommends a high carb diet, so I should listen to them why???? How has anyone who follows the ADA or any other low fat/high carb conventional medical wisdom fared in comparison to me? Can they claim what I can? Have they reclaimed their health? Or are they still on drugs or perhaps insulin?
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  #1037   ^
Old Mon, Aug-03-09, 23:13
twixcookie twixcookie is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 159
 
Plan: Low on food chain
Stats: 200/200/110 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Levac
My blood sugar doesn't rise after I eat. On the contrary, it drops. Insulin will lower blood sugar. I eat only fat meat and water. Protein stimulates insulin. So, when I eat fat meat and water, insulin rises. As it does so, it lowers blood sugar. Blood sugar returns to normal when insulin returns to normal.

I'm not diabetic but if I were, I would seriously consider the above paragraph.


I am diabetic and I work in medicine. You can check my information out. Your blood sugar can rise within an hour to two hours after a meal and that is normal. For a diabetic, if they are not within normal limits, it is not good.
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  #1038   ^
Old Mon, Aug-03-09, 23:17
twixcookie twixcookie is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 159
 
Plan: Low on food chain
Stats: 200/200/110 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkycampe
]



Yes, how much it rises is important. Anytime your blood sugar levels are over 140, your body is experiencing damage. I understand that some researchers believe that even 120 is too high and cause damage. So, really, when is a rise in blood sugar good for you?

And, yes, too much sugar is bad for anybody but especially for someone who is diabetic. Carbs=sugar. Same thing. Therefore, carbs are bad for diabetics.

BTW, I just spent quite a bit of time poking around the tudiabetes site. Sorry, not impressed. I mean, really, there are people there advocating that no dietary changes are needed as they can just bolus more? People advocating baquettes, cinnamon toast, Honey Bunch of Oats, and other high-carb items for breakfast? Please.



You don't seem to understand diabetes.
There are ranges that are appropriate for everyone.
Most people are within normal limits. The values you put out are not normal ranges.

I don't know what you read on there, but it seems you found some funky stuff, so you discredit the whole site. The man who founded the site is a very well educated man and has devoted a lot of his life to diabetic research.
He is very active in the Bay area and has been on national TV.
You will always find some odd stuff on websites, but it is like you found something, so you ran off to discredit it.
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  #1039   ^
Old Mon, Aug-03-09, 23:19
twixcookie twixcookie is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 159
 
Plan: Low on food chain
Stats: 200/200/110 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowcrbgirl
It isn't just preventable but as long as it isn't type I it can be reveresable.

My case in point....when I ended up in the hospital ER very ill I had a blood sample drawn (this was after more than 24 hours of not only not eating but my body ejecting things from both end in very violent ways) and my sugar came up as 298 to be exact. This was almost 11 years ago and I still remember that number. I was given a prescription (that I ended up never filling). In the drug store, that day, I saw Protein Power by Drs. Mary Dan and Michael Eades and started skimming through it. I decided to buy it instead of the expensive drug (I had no insurance). I read their work and it made sense. I also read Atkins and modified PP with that. Within 4 weeks my FBS was under 175. A few more weeks later and it was under 150. Within a couple of months I had a normal FBS and haven't looked back since.

Now my FBS is usually around 90 and my BS hasn't gone above 110 in over a decade. Why, because I gained some knowledge, accepted it as my previous dietary choices of the past (oh and I was a vegetarian so not exactly what most would call unhealthy), which though not candy or refined carbs for many years, but still carbs which = sugar and changed it. In doing this I cured myself of a debilitating disease along with several others that also went bye bye.

The ADA even admits that carbs cause an increase in blood sugar but still recommends a high carb diet, so I should listen to them why???? How has anyone who follows the ADA or any other low fat/high carb conventional medical wisdom fared in comparison to me? Can they claim what I can? Have they reclaimed their health? Or are they still on drugs or perhaps insulin?



I agree with you about the ADA. They spew garbage.

But you cannot simply reverse diabetes with diet.

You can affect it, but not reverse it.
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  #1040   ^
Old Mon, Aug-03-09, 23:21
lowcrbgirl's Avatar
lowcrbgirl lowcrbgirl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 160
 
Plan: PP/Atkins/IF Maintenance
Stats: 195/138/140 Female 66"
BF:33%/20%
Progress: 104%
Location: Seattle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twixcookie
I agree with you about the ADA. They spew garbage.

But you cannot simply reverse diabetes with diet.

You can affect it, but not reverse it.


Well I guess I must have pulled off the impossible then. Boy I am amazing!!!!!!

I don't know how to make this any clearer than my post...I had a FBS of almost 300 that IS indeed diabetic. I have not been diabetic for over a decade now. I REVERSED IT WITH DIET!!!!! WHY CAN YOU JUST NOT ADMIT IT? If you would do that, you may just find that you could to.
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  #1041   ^
Old Mon, Aug-03-09, 23:25
twixcookie twixcookie is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 159
 
Plan: Low on food chain
Stats: 200/200/110 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress:
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Who diagnosed you as a diabetic, and did they put you on any medications, or did they let you walk out of the hospital with a BS of 298?

So you opted to not take a drug, and prescribed your own thing?

It is good that what you did worked.

But what you did was manage your diabetes, not cure it.
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  #1042   ^
Old Mon, Aug-03-09, 23:41
lowcrbgirl's Avatar
lowcrbgirl lowcrbgirl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 160
 
Plan: PP/Atkins/IF Maintenance
Stats: 195/138/140 Female 66"
BF:33%/20%
Progress: 104%
Location: Seattle
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by twixcookie
Who diagnosed you as a diabetic, and did they put you on any medications, or did they let you walk out of the hospital with a BS of 298?


If you read my previous post, it's in there.

Quote:
So you opted to not take a drug, and prescribed your own thing?

It is good that what you did worked.

But what you did was manage your diabetes, not cure it.


Yup, and damn glad I did. Damn glad I was smart enough to. Otherwise my health would be worse instead of GREAT and Big Pharma would be richer. Yup, think I like the cure better than the conventional wisdom.

So according to your wisdom, if I had cancer and then treated it and went more than a decade free I wouldn't have cured it but only managed it? Or if I had a rash and then treated it then went over a decade with out the rash I wouldn't have cured it but only managed it?

And now that I have said that let me make this clear...I'M A LOW CARB CRAZY FOOL, is that what you want to hear? Yes, I'm a low carb crazy fool who told big pharma where to stick their drugs and snubbed conventional medical wisdom and took a chance on something that actually made sense. Yes, I'm a low carb crazy fool who though in her 40's is healthier than most people half my age these days. Yes I'm a low carb crazy fool who looks more than a decade younger than she is. Yes I'm a low carb crazy fool with the energy of a 2 year old but I know what I know and how to use it. Yes, I'm a low carb crazy fool who what did she get for not following, as you would have probably considered a wise doctors advise, her health back and I am disease free because I am a low carb crazy fool.

If conventional medicine is wise then yes I am a fool. But I am a healthy fool that laughs at them.

Any other low carb crazy fools out there that aren't afraid to admit it?

Last edited by lowcrbgirl : Tue, Aug-04-09 at 00:05.
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  #1043   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-09, 02:17
dmkorn dmkorn is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 401
 
Plan: Why Diet & Exercise Fail
Stats: 230/180/180 Male 5'11
BF:
Progress:
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I believe type II diabetes can be reversed if enough anti-inflammatory foods are eaten. A low carbohydrate diet with tons of fruits and vegetables could help. The inflammation in our modern diet seems to be caused by lack of certain vitamins and minerals, and amino-acids. We are removing 90% of the wheat germ from our staple grain, and this is the part that contains all the amino acids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowcrbgirl
Well I guess I must have pulled off the impossible then. Boy I am amazing!!!!!!

I don't know how to make this any clearer than my post...I had a FBS of almost 300 that IS indeed diabetic. I have not been diabetic for over a decade now. I REVERSED IT WITH DIET!!!!! WHY CAN YOU JUST NOT ADMIT IT? If you would do that, you may just find that you could to.
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  #1044   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-09, 02:18
dmkorn dmkorn is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 401
 
Plan: Why Diet & Exercise Fail
Stats: 230/180/180 Male 5'11
BF:
Progress:
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Tell us a little about your diet. Where you just eating regular meats? Grass fed? Were you eating lots of fruits and vegetables?


Quote:
Originally Posted by lowcrbgirl
It isn't just preventable but as long as it isn't type I it can be reveresable.

My case in point....when I ended up in the hospital ER very ill I had a blood sample drawn (this was after more than 24 hours of not only not eating but my body ejecting things from both end in very violent ways) and my sugar came up as 298 to be exact. This was almost 11 years ago and I still remember that number. I was given a prescription (that I ended up never filling). In the drug store, that day, I saw Protein Power by Drs. Mary Dan and Michael Eades and started skimming through it. I decided to buy it instead of the expensive drug (I had no insurance). I read their work and it made sense. I also read Atkins and modified PP with that. Within 4 weeks my FBS was under 175. A few more weeks later and it was under 150. Within a couple of months I had a normal FBS and haven't looked back since.

Now my FBS is usually around 90 and my BS hasn't gone above 110 in over a decade. Why, because I gained some knowledge, accepted it as my previous dietary choices of the past (oh and I was a vegetarian so not exactly what most would call unhealthy), which though not candy or refined carbs for many years, but still carbs which = sugar and changed it. In doing this I cured myself of a debilitating disease along with several others that also went bye bye.

The ADA even admits that carbs cause an increase in blood sugar but still recommends a high carb diet, so I should listen to them why???? How has anyone who follows the ADA or any other low fat/high carb conventional medical wisdom fared in comparison to me? Can they claim what I can? Have they reclaimed their health? Or are they still on drugs or perhaps insulin?
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  #1045   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-09, 05:44
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,498
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by twixcookie
I am diabetic and I work in medicine. You can check my information out. Your blood sugar can rise within an hour to two hours after a meal and that is normal. For a diabetic, if they are not within normal limits, it is not good.

"An hour or two after a meal". You mean, my blood sugar dropped due to the insulin which was stimulated by protein, then it went back up to normal after an hour or two, as insulin went back down to normal, as it should?

So you're a diabetic and you work in medicine. I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you can fix your diabetes. I've given you information as well and you can check it out too. It seems you don't want to hear it because you "work in medicine" and know better than to listen to internet gurus.

"Work in medicine and diabetic". Just like a fat nutritionist. Or a plumber's home with leaky pipes. Or a mechanic's car with bald tires. Or an accountant with an incorrect tax return. Or a shoemaker with holes in his shoes. I think I don't want to take your advice any time soon.
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  #1046   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-09, 06:28
tiredangel tiredangel is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,110
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 235/175/150 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 71%
Default

Hahaha, I am 40 and was carded last week. Granted, this place cards up to 30, but still! I had to laugh. And I disagree that fruit is anti-inflammatory. In fact, saying eating LOTS of fruits and vegetables is just not great advice.

If everyone went a few weeks of eating JUST fresh, unprocessed meat and water, then started adding in vegetables to see what they could eat, I bet a lot of people would find great relief from their blood sugar issues. But no doctor or nutritionist would dare suggest that.
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  #1047   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-09, 08:35
funkycampe funkycampe is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 145
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein/Atkins comb
Stats: 237/181/125 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Washington state coast
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by twixcookie
You don't seem to understand diabetes.
There are ranges that are appropriate for everyone.
Most people are within normal limits. The values you put out are not normal ranges.

I don't know what you read on there, but it seems you found some funky stuff, so you discredit the whole site. The man who founded the site is a very well educated man and has devoted a lot of his life to diabetic research.
He is very active in the Bay area and has been on national TV.
You will always find some odd stuff on websites, but it is like you found something, so you ran off to discredit it.


I understand diabetes very well.

You previously mentioned that we should all visit Blood Sugar 101 and read her book. She says:



Quote:
Post-Meal Blood Sugar (Postprandial)

Independent of what they eat, the blood sugar of a truly normal person is:

Under 120 mg/dl (6.6 mmol/L) one or two hours after a meal.

Most normal people are under 100 mg/dl (5.5 mmol/L) two hours after eating.


She further says:

Quote:
The main findings here, for those of you who don't have the high speed internet connection needed to listen to this presentation, are that in normal people the fasting blood glucose stays flat in the low 80 mg/dl (4.4 mmol/L) range throughout the night. After a high carb meal, normal people's blood sugar rises to about 125 mg/dl for a brief period, with the peak blood sugar being measured at 45 minutes after eating and then drops back under 100 mg/dl.


If a person without diabetes only has blood glucose levels over 120 under certain circumstances, to a max of 125, and then only for a very short period of time, what makes you think it's healthy and OK for a diabetic's blood sugar levels to be above that? Why would you think it doesn't cause damage?

Blood Sugar 101 further goes onto say that healthy blood sugar targets are:
Fasting: 100
1 hour PP: 140
2 hour PP: 120

What values did I advocate that are out of normal ranges? I said that damage is definitely caused by readings of over 140 and that new research is showing that damage can even occur with readings of over 120. This perfectly fits with what she says at Blood Sugar 101.

The tudiabetes website is linked to Diabetes Living magazine which advocates eating 6-8 servings of carbs daily, limiting fats to very small amounts of olive oil, and other things that just don't fit into low-carb eating plans...basically ADA guidelines. Nope, I'm not impressed.
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  #1048   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-09, 08:58
funkycampe funkycampe is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 145
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein/Atkins comb
Stats: 237/181/125 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Washington state coast
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmkorn
I believe type II diabetes can be reversed if enough anti-inflammatory foods are eaten. A low carbohydrate diet with tons of fruits and vegetables could help. The inflammation in our modern diet seems to be caused by lack of certain vitamins and minerals, and amino-acids. We are removing 90% of the wheat germ from our staple grain, and this is the part that contains all the amino acids.


You should read "Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution". So should TwixCookie.

By going low-carb, eating only 6 grams carb at breakfast, 12 grams at both lunch and dinner, for a total of 30 grams carb daily, he totally reversed diabetic complications including abysmal cholesteral/triglycerides, frozen shoulder, damaged kidneys, Charcot foot, and maybe a few others I'm forgetting (it's been awhile since I read the book).

He does not eat any fruit at all. He does eat low-carb vegetables, meats, and does not limit fats. He did this in the early 1970s and has been healthy since. As he is a Type 1, he obviously still needs insulin but his advice works extremely well for Type 2's as well. Even insulin-dependent Type 2's have been able to go off insulin and even most, if not all, oral meds by following his plan.

Personally, any kind of starch (bread, potato, rice, beans) raises my blood sugar the most. I get the highest spikes that take the longest to come down when eating any of these.

The second kind of food that causes high, extended spikes are fruits. I can eat a small amount of berries without much of a rise (just a handful) but even half of a small apple causes a very bad reaction for me and can push me over 200.

In addition to watching the carbs, I also need to watch the caloric intake. If I eat much over about 700 calories in a single meal, even if it's low-carb, my blood glucose can sky-rocket to 180/190. Bernstein calls this the "chinese food effect". If I opt to eat a bigger meal, I need to plan for a walk afterwards as this helps bring the glucose levels down more quickly.

I care not if diabetes is cured or managed. That's just semantics. I do care if it's controlled. Bernstein was told it was impossible to reverse the damage his body had from diabetes but he did, indeed, heal the damage and has remained free of those problems for another 40 years while living a healthy and active life.

Anyway, I put my trust in Bernstein as he has proved it with his own results as well as those of thousands of people who have followed his plan. If you do a websearch for his website, you'll find excerpts of his book available to read online. You might learn something.
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  #1049   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-09, 12:56
DTris DTris is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 271
 
Plan: Based on Barry Groves
Stats: 275/252/210 Male 6 feet
BF:
Progress: 35%
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Dr Kwasniewski also treats type I and type 2 diabetes through his optimal diet.
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  #1050   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-09, 17:58
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,498
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTris
Dr Kwasniewski also treats type I and type 2 diabetes through his optimal diet.

So does Atkins with his, and the Drs Eades with theirs.
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