I could say that I am not referring to anyone but myself too... but if I talk about what someone else said and act all superior about it then I would be lying and deceiving.

I do not consider a mouthful of wedding cake at my own wedding to be a cheat, nor would I consider an entire piece to be... for one thing I will be at my goal weight at that time and another, its not my norm to eat cake much at all, even when I was eating anything I wanted to.

I do thank you however for getting me tickled over the 'wedding chicken'...nothing wrong with it at all mind you, but the mental picture of a couple feeding eachother chicken and everyone taking pictures was just a little different.

Ladycody...I really like your comments... I agree that the word 'cheat' isn't really the best word to use when its something like your wedding or a special occasion... to me cheating is more when you keep eating high carb foods and so forth and blowing this WOE over and over again when you really don't want to....but rather than have such malice towards ones having this problem, I believe they need love and support and I am sure you feel the same way.

I had another question/thought, Eddie....do you believe that there are people who can, in fact, eat something "off plan" and yet still maintain this WOE for life? I know you worry about people being side-swiped by the sneaky side of carb addiction...but do you believe there are those who can do this?...those who are not addicted...who were simply unaware of carbs and what they do...who are now adjusting their WOE to account for that new information.

For instance...I don't actually consider myself a carb addict...I was simply (and completely) unaware of how they affected my body and what their dangers are. So, now(after a good deal of education on the topic)...I'm able to approach what I eat with a whole new eye. I dont feel like they can sneak up on me... Knowledge is my sword...and I dont fear them. (bit dramatic huh?)

You're answer might be pivotal to any hostility in this thread...


If you answer that you do believe that some people can safely indulge (while keeping their will intact) and have no problem sticking to this WOE...then many will at least understand that it is concern that motivates your zealous responses...not a mind closed to the variables discussed. Concern for those who would fail...for those who are, in fact, essentially, carb addicts (comparable to an alcoholic) or at risk of diabetes.

If you answer no...that you believe any indulgence of "off plan eating" is bad and destined to hurt or derail any indulgee (is that a word?) ...then we may simply have some folks that need to agree to disagree...

Hello Dawna.....I have never been a member of any kind of forum anywhere. I joined this forum over a year ago, but only started posting a few weeks ago. Never had anything to say and should have kept it that way!

Congratulations on your loss, it's quite an accomplishment. Hope you're finding your plan easy to follow. Good luck.

Harvey

Good point Ladycody

I was one that didn't realize what carbs could do to me.... I always knew that I gained weight really easily and couldn't eat like I seen many others eating, but I never knew that it had anything to do with a carb sensitivity... so now that I am armed with this knowledge and have proved to myself that this works for me, then I am not going to go back to eating processed carbs left and right...I really don't even know yet what my carb amount will be for maintenance, but once I discover it then thats where I plan to stay every day, regardless of what I eat.

I am not a diabetic, but I have been monitoring my blood sugar levels almost from the beginning of this WOE and I have them down to the 70's now for my fasting level....they were in the low 90's.

I wish that certain foods would just be seen as bad for us and not even produced anymore... things like white flour, sugar and hydrogenated oils... then things such as wedding cake would start being made in a healthier manner for everyone...I had even considered a low carb wedding cake...lol... but my BF has a huge family and none he knows of do low carb and we decided that it would be best to just stay traditional for them because one bite or piece of wedding cake was not gonna make or break me... I truly do not see myself as that stupid now that I have learned what my whole problem was with weight in the first place.

hmmmm....i guess it confuses some of us when you claim to be "speaking only about me, to me, for me," when you have already made statements like:



i guess the blatant use of the word "you," 6 times just in those few sentences threw us off. youre right eddie, i can see how you were only talking about yourself.


oh yeah, i just have to bring this up too:

is cheating really what exposed the nerve? i could swear there like a hundred posts on cheating with no raw nerves. it couldnt perhaps be some of your statements (see quote #2)??? nahhhh

Questions, questions, questions....musings...plannings....excuses.....cake recipes....you guys are so analytical...so thoughtful!

The three of you are just delightful...I love it and I love the three of you.

Just think....2000 views...how many people are reading our arguments and even tho not posting, they are thinking. Maybe we were able to move a few of them closer to goal.

That's all I want to do...pure and simple...move as many souls as possible....no matter what it takes! And I don't even have a book to sell.

I can't answer your question yet Ladycody...I have an answer, but.......

Eddie

BTW.....while I think about it.....there are 2000 views, how about a few more of you people getting off your duff and contributing to this conversation?
You never know...something you say might just be the spark someone else needs to get moving!

Don't be shy, nothing you can say is going to shock us.

Are you a "Cheating Lurker" and don't want to fess up? Come on...spill the beans! Tis better to give than to recieve!

Eddie

I never cheat!

I do, however, INDULGE.

The other day I had a handful of potato chips. Ate them slowly...and realized they weren't nearly as good as I remembered. So instead of being tortured by unrealistic expectations, I was able to get rid of the craving by exploring it in a controlled way.

Now, I'm coming from years of handling binge eating issues. There's still a part of my mind that considers a party a good book and a fresh pizza...but I've controlled that thought, made it realize a few seconds later that I can enjoy my book with nothing at all to eat...that I can make pizza on mushroom caps whenever I want...and do I really want to get back into the "sailing ship" jeans?

No.

After twenty years this stupid thought still pops up. But it is quickly squished. So all my effort has not been for nothing...and that is how I can have one bite of brownie...and then stop.

This has been an incredible thread, because I think this subject is do close to everyone. A while back I had put in my journal, why is it that some people succeed at this, while other fail. Unfortunately I still don't know the answer to that.

If I can make a couple of generalizations here. People that I see succeeding are people that are diligent in their choosen WOE, they are very particular about what they eat, how much they eat, etc.. The people that seem to fail, or at least have stopped doing this for awhile, it all seemed to start with ONE cheat.

From personal experience I can tell you that the worst thing that can happen on this woe or any other for that matter, is to go off plan, and not have a negative consequence. Because that may lead to a bigger cheat or more cheats. How many of us have said, oh I ate __________, and I didn't gain anything, or I even lost a pound or two. We are all human, and when we are reinforced that eating off plan doesn't result in something bad, than we are more apt to do it again.

The way I took Harvey's comments are someone who is passionate about staying on his woe, and thinks it is best that others do the same. Now I will be the first to admit that he may not have choosen all of the correct words, but IMHO, I don't think he is being malicious.

Having said all of that, I have cheated, not regularly, and not often, but I have. Although some of it is enjoyable, I do worry all the time, is this going to lead to another cheat, or a bigger cheat. I think because it is always on my mind, that I am consciencous that it could lead to something more, helps to keep me contained.

Others have posted that cheating is much like many other things in life, there are some that are going to be able to do it with no consequences, some who can't do it, and some that are in the middle. That what make it interesting, to see everyone's opinions.

I would ask one more question than what everyone else is debating, when you do cheat, does failing at this woe, ever enter into your thought process?

In response to the above post:

I have never 'cheated' since I began this WOE back in April and I have lost 45 pounds since then.

I feel that Harvey ridicules me just because I said that once I reach goal I am getting married (great guy I have is willing to wait so I'll be happy with my wedding pics)...I stated that I would at least have the bite of cake that the groom feeds the bride and Harvey has put cake comments in many of his posts ever since... I think its a little ridiculous to get on someones case over them making a conscious decision to eat cake at their own wedding... most likely I will just have that one bite because I am not tempted by that kind of thing and it is not even the kind of food that made me fat in the first place as I have never been a big sweet eater.

I mean seriously, how many here would have a wedding chicken like Harvey suggested instead of the traditional wedding cake?....especially since there will be well over 100 guests on my BF's side of the family and none I know of low carb.... why cause a stir with the family I will be marrying into over something so silly?

If you will look at his posts he mentions cake ever since I said that about my wedding and then says hes not speaking to anyone in particular...I do find it on the malicious side personally.

I want to congratulate you on you loss!

You are really doing a good job and it increases your odds of being there for a long time for your children...they are adorable by the way.... I looked at your gallery pics!

again with the generalizations. i agree with the above statement for a lot of people, but not everyone!!! thats my only point.

Lipid,

I agree with you 100%, one piece of wedding cake at your wedding isn't anything to be concerned about!! I imagine that I would do the same thing in your position. Thanks for the compliments, you are doing fantastic as well, I'm sure you will make a beautiful, glowing bride on your special day!

Eva25,

I said that I was generalizing, even in the statement that you quoted from me, I said it may lead to bigger and more cheats, not it would lead to bigger and more cheats.

I would like to ask you a question though (or anyone that feels like responding), do you feel that cheating weakens or strengthens someone's resolve to get to the end. It may just be a matter of semantic's, but maybe the people who go 'off plan', see it as an end to means. In other words, I would have a hard time sticking to the this woe, if I never ate 'xyz', but if I could have it once a month than I can do this. It might make your weight loss slower, but as far as I'm concerned as long as you get there it doesn't matter!!

Quite frankly I am fascinated by people who can go 'off plan' on a regular basis and continue to loose weight, and continue to stay 'on plan' at other times. I don't believe that I am strong enough to do that.

Good luck to everyone, and let's keep discussing this!

My cheats usually last only a day. And it happens at the end of every two weeks; I let it happen. Those are the ones where I eat carbs on purpose but just the good ones. I don't really eat the soda or sugars but I eat some good rice here and there. I like being on LC but eventually I want to learn how to eat ALL the good and healthy foods and that includes SOME carbs and I want to learn how to eat proportionally and do it right.
Those cheats that are by accident or due to loss of willpower makes me feel a little guilty but you know what? Everyone's human. So what if it pushes you back three days. I'm still exercising and drinking lots of water. I'm still making more changes than I was a few months ago.

Well 1adothis, there's no way I could go off plan regularly and feel ok about it. Even if I was able to have something off plan 4 or 5 times a week...without it having a negative impact on my weight loss...I would feel like I was cheating.

I honestly believe that it's about changing the WAY you eat. I think the objective is to focus on what you're putting into your mouth...and not just in the way of carbs. I consider low-carb treats somewhat "off plan" too ...one of my boundaries. I didnt originally...in fact I used to eat them pretty regularly. After thinking about it...I changed my approach to them. I limit myself to one every week or two For me...eating a low carb treat 4 or 5 times a week is counter productive. I want to have better eating habits. Indulging in a chocolate bar or lc ice cream every day is a poor eating habit, in my little world. (even if it was a treat that could technically fit into my carb counts and was '"allowed" by the plan)


Everyone has their own boundaries, I think. I'm very comfortable treating myself every couple of months, and I do think it makes this a WOE for me...something that will last for life. Maybe there are people out there who could do this forever without eating off plan ever again. I'm simply not one of them. I'm ok with that...I've changed the entire way I look at foods and how I approach them. That's far more important to me.

LadyCody,

I agree with you as well, I hope I didn't come across as a you can't cheat ever kind of a person. In fact I'm not really sure where I fall. I try not to cheat, but I have.

I agree that losing weight, especially if you have a lot of weight to loose, is as much about fixing the mental side of eating as well as what you are putting in your mouth.

I know that I still fight the desire to eat all of something. Before this woe, if there were cookies in the house, I would want to eat all of them. So now, I will buy a box of ice cream bars or some other low carb treat, just to see if I can just eat one a day. For the most part I have been successful doing that. IMHO if you can't fix those emotional ties, you are going to have a hard time succeeding.