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  #61   ^
Old Mon, Jul-13-15, 10:10
Sissy1958's Avatar
Sissy1958 Sissy1958 is offline
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Posts: 50
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 223/192.8/150 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 41%
Location: Virginia
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Welcome Desert Mo Good Luck on your new woe/wol! I have a box of the bars as an emergency back up when I am running late or got lazy the night before and didn't get my stuff together for my breakfast before work. This doesn't happen often because I don't want to rely on such a sweet nonfilling thing to get me through the morning. I feel so much better with a good meal that wont lead me to cravings or snacks that I really don't need. After reading the book it surprised me when I looked at the ingredients how they could be for all phases plus I don't see how they come up with the "net carbs" for some of these products (very deceiving ...to sell merchandise I guess. Oh well, I really try to stay away from the processed "stuff"...
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  #62   ^
Old Mon, Jul-13-15, 11:46
Desert Mo's Avatar
Desert Mo Desert Mo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,790
 
Plan: ZC Carnivore
Stats: 170/150/135 Female 5'2"
BF:
Progress: 57%
Location: rural Arkansas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inflammabl
I used Atkins bars on induction and lost 12 pounds in two weeks. Most of the arguments against Atkins bars are based on food morality. Yes, some people might not tolerate them but only just some. Are you one of them? No one knows beforehand.



Some of us are die-hard original Atkins 1972 followers. In the 1972 original Atkins book (Diet Revolution, pub. 1972), Atkins was very clear about staying away from processed foods. That would include the so-called Atkins bars of today. Likely those who just looooove the bars love convenience foods & likely in their pasts reveled in junk food. Or else they just like bars. I don't. Never have. 70 years old & doing just fine on the origiinal Atkins 1972 approach, as I did when I was in my 20s & lost over 50 pounds quickly on it. Had I never touched processed foods & lived later mostly on healthy carbs (vegetarian), I probably wouldn't need Atkins again, although I'm now a believer it's a way of life, not just a diet for losing weight ... because diets are things to eventually go off of & that's been my mistake. ~~ desert mo
PS: so-called "food morality" isn't a factor for many of us ... we ain't bigots, just food careful ... or diehard Atkins original 1972 fans, as I am. :-)
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  #63   ^
Old Tue, Jul-14-15, 07:49
Mayflowers's Avatar
Mayflowers Mayflowers is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 591
 
Plan: Atkins/LC
Stats: 205/150/150 Female 5'5"
BF:35
Progress: 100%
Location: Jersey Girl
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I don't eat any artificial sweeteners, they give me anxiety attacks...so Atkins products are out for me.
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  #64   ^
Old Tue, Jul-14-15, 07:53
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Apparently Garfield hasn't lost his popularity over the years.
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  #65   ^
Old Tue, Jul-14-15, 09:44
AnneChoco's Avatar
AnneChoco AnneChoco is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 170
 
Plan: Atkins> LCHF >Carnivore
Stats: 200/183.5/150 Female 5'8" inches
BF:
Progress: 33%
Location: Pennsylvania
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I have to comment here, just another experience to consider. As a younger woman, this particular week in the month has been particularly full of cravings. I really wanted to dig into an Atkins bar I had lying around from when I first started. I haven't had any in at least a month or two. When I want something with chocolate, I've just made chocolate fat bombs and them instead (coconut oil, nuts, stevia, cocoa powder puréed and poured into single serving molds, so much fat they have to be kept in the fridge or they become more like Nutella, which works too!)

I gave in yesterday and started to eat an Atkins bar. I. Couldn't. Finish. It. It just didn't taste good to me anymore. And it didn't make my stomach feel good either. I was surprised, because when I started, I could have one a day with only a little bit of stomach discomfort. This morning I had a minor IBS flare up. I will stick to my own cooking from now on....

It's amazing to see how my tastes are changing in such a small period of time. I'm not knocking the bars, they did help me when I first started out. But I think that with most foods, we should make sure they agree with us, and most times that can only be found out after a time of omission and reinstatement. Thanks to all who helped me to try this for myself!
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  #66   ^
Old Wed, Jul-15-15, 10:23
Mayflowers's Avatar
Mayflowers Mayflowers is offline
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Posts: 591
 
Plan: Atkins/LC
Stats: 205/150/150 Female 5'5"
BF:35
Progress: 100%
Location: Jersey Girl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
Apparently Garfield hasn't lost his popularity over the years.

Ok FINE. It took me all morning on my stupid Mac to try to make a 100 x 100 pixel pic. At least I'm incognito in this one. I'm kind of an INFJ
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  #67   ^
Old Wed, Jul-15-15, 10:32
Mayflowers's Avatar
Mayflowers Mayflowers is offline
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Posts: 591
 
Plan: Atkins/LC
Stats: 205/150/150 Female 5'5"
BF:35
Progress: 100%
Location: Jersey Girl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnneChoco
I'm not knocking the bars, they did help me when I first started out. But I think that with most foods,


They helped me too in the beginning until I started getting anxiety attacks from them. I never used sucralose so much as I did with going low carb Atkins style. I had to stop the bars and shakes and it took a few weeks to get it out of my system. Now I have to bite the bullet. Well there's no magic pill for me.

Last edited by Mayflowers : Wed, Jul-15-15 at 10:41.
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  #68   ^
Old Wed, Jul-15-15, 11:32
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,371
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: Upstate SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Mo
Atkins was very clear about staying away from processed foods.

Processed grains? Sure. Processed protein and fat......? Like grass fed Elk sausage? I don't know about that. I'd like to see the quote. To me, the admonition comes across like "Stay away from chemicals." In other words, it's not factually correct but I can guess what is meant.

Quote:
That would include the so-called Atkins bars of today.

How do we know this?

Quote:
Likely those who just looooove the bars love convenience foods & likely in their pasts reveled in junk food.

I think we would find 99% of people who lost weight on Atkins got overweight eating convenience foods & and junk food so I'm not sure why this is relevant. It's not the convenience that did them in. It was the junk and Atkins is clear that the carbs are the junk. Not "processing".

Quote:
Or else they just like bars. I don't. Never have. 70 years old & doing just fine on the origiinal Atkins 1972 approach, as I did when I was in my 20s & lost over 50 pounds quickly on it. Had I never touched processed foods & lived later mostly on healthy carbs (vegetarian),

I gained most of my weight when I became a vegetarian. I'm not sure why you think being a vegetarian is more healthy than our WOE.

Quote:
I probably wouldn't need Atkins again, although I'm now a believer it's a way of life, not just a diet for losing weight ... because diets are things to eventually go off of & that's been my mistake. ~~ desert mo
PS: so-called "food morality" isn't a factor for many of us ... we ain't bigots, just food careful ... or diehard Atkins original 1972 fans, as I am. :-)

Ah. It was the "food morality" thing that is winding people up. Eh. It's something to think about I think. When I was a veggie, my friends were food moralists. I'm sure breatharians are food moralists. I suppose there's something human about assigning a higher meaning to what we put inside ourselves. Maybe the feeling "we are what we eat" will never die.
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  #69   ^
Old Thu, Jul-16-15, 03:11
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,521
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Related to this thread, Dr William Davis just updated his list of "approved sweeteners". The type of sweeteners used in Atkins products and most commercial drinks are ones now suspected of disrupting gut flora, and he also mentions that all even natural ones can be overly sweet and cause cravings. He lists some sweeteners that may be used on occasion for homemade treats, and the Quest Bars mentioned earlier use inulin, but 99% of commercial diet products are processed foods made with chemicals, inc. sucralose (Splenda) that may hinder weight loss.

http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2015/...afe-sweeteners/

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Jul-16-15 at 03:18.
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  #70   ^
Old Thu, Jul-16-15, 06:07
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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http://www.nature.com/nature/journa...hor-information

I don't have access to the study that showed changes in gut bacteria with splenda and other sweeteners. But I find this comment interesting;


Quote:
Bernadene Magnuson said:
The data in this study do not support the general statement that ?artificial sweeteners? induce glucose intolerance and thus cause obesity by altering the gut microbiome?.

The extensive research conducted on aspartame and sucralose has clearly demonstrated that these compounds do not affect the gut microbiota (1,2). Aspartame is completely digested into amino acids and methanol, which are absorbed in the small intestine. Neither aspartame nor its digestion products ever reach the colon; thus aspartame itself cannot affect gut microbiota. Sucralose is not digested, and passes unchanged to the large intestine; however numerous studies show pure sucralose cannot be metabolized by microflora.

So how is it possible that these 2 sweeteners reportedly altered the gut microbiota in this study? The answer ? inappropriate statistics and huge changes in overall diet composition.

Firstly, to achieve statistical significance, the authors combined all 3 different sweetener groups (n=20/group) together into one group (n=60) and compared against the combined control groups to obtain 1 statistically significant p value! So 6 groups of 20 became 2 groups of 60, making it impossible to determine which, if any, individual sweetener had a significant effect.

Secondly, the notable impact on intake of mouse chow, by adding extremely high doses of sweetener to drinking water, was ignored. Doses and food intake can only be estimated as data were reported for just 4 of the 20 mice per group and for only 3 days of the 11-week study. Doses of the sweeteners were up to 1000 times the acceptable daily intake (ADI), and consumption of mouse chow dropped by 50% in some groups in just 72 hr. Mouse chow contains fiber, protein, fat, fermentable carbohydrates and a host of other components that have repeatedly been shown to affect both gut microbiota and glycemic indices. Clearly, these dramatic changes in diet would result in changes in microbiota, and glycemic responses. Other dietary factors were similarly not considered in the human studies.

Lastly, these conclusions do not agree with the results of the extensive testing of these sweeteners required for approval, including human clinical studies conducted in healthy and diabetic participants for periods of several weeks to months, on parameters including glycemic indices and insulin (1,2). These studies must include control groups, baseline measurements, blinding, crossover designs, and appropriate statistics to ensure no effects on these parameters with continual exposure of sweeteners, at maximum expected uses.

Thus this study provides no evidence that aspartame or sucralose alters gut microbiota or glycemic response. In contrast, the observation that saccharin at high doses alters gut microbiota was known in the 80s, and contributed to the establishment of the ADI for saccharin (3). Therefore, extrapolation of findings of effects of saccharin on the gut microbiome to all artificial sweeteners has no scientific basis and overlooks well-established differences in chemistry and metabolism.

Also not mentioned are the numerous studies demonstrating that use of low calorie sweeteners, including aspartame and sucralose, are beneficial in weight loss and weight loss maintenance programs (4,5).

The allegations that ?artificial sweeteners? contribute to glucose intolerance and obesity based on studies in this report, are unfounded and should be withdrawn.

References

1. Opinion of the Scientific Committee on Food on sucralose. Available at http://ec.europa.eu/food/fs/sc/scf/outcome_en.html.

2. Aspartame (WHO Food Additives Series 15) available at http://www.inchem.org/documents/jec...ono/v15je03.htm

3. Saccharin (WHO Food Additives Series 17) available at http://www.inchem.org/documents/jec...ono/v17je25.htm

4. Miller PE, Perez V. Low-calorie sweeteners and body weight and composition: a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials and prospective cohort studies, Am J Clin Nutr. 2014 Sep;100(3):765-77

5. Catenacci VA, Pan Z, Thomas JG, Ogden LG, Roberts SA, Wyatt HR, Wing RR, Hill JO. Low/No calorie sweetened beverage consumption in the National Weight Control Registry. Obesity (Silver Spring). 2014 Oct;22(10):2244-51.


A quick google shows Bernadene Magnuson does consulting for Coca-Cola, something called the Stevia Institute, etc.

I was sorry that stevia wasn't included in this study. How you expose animals to a sweetener is a game-changer, so stevia's healthy aura may be at least partly due to the study design. Various sweeteners have differing bitter compounds, some will find one sweetener bitter, another not. I don't like stevia, because of this. I can add aspartame or splenda to plain heavy cream with a little vanilla, and it will taste pleasing. Stevia or sodium cyclamate will make it too bitter. But if these are added with cocoa, their bitterness disappears in the more complex flavour.

Quote:
and consumption of mouse chow dropped by 50% in some groups in just 72 hr.


If I understand her here, she's suggesting that a massive dose of saccharin could decrease appetite. If she's right--then the fecal transplant would be from mice that were semi-starved to germ-free mice that were fully fed. I have no idea whether she's right, can't look at the study myself, but that's a really interesting idea. And it makes a certain sense that a mouse that's been semi-starved, by whatever means, would have a gut biome conducive of poor glucose tolerance.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?artic...se-Intolerance/


Quote:
In a cohort of 381 non-diabetic volunteers who answered diet questionnaires, those who regularly consumed artificial sweeteners—particularly those who consumed the highest amounts—showed higher fasting glucose levels, poorer glucose tolerance, and different gut microbe profiles compared to those who did not consume such sweeteners. The difference between the two populations remained even after correcting for body mass index.

Further, the team exposed seven young, healthy volunteers who did not have a history of artificial sweetener consumption to one week of the FDA’s maximum acceptable daily saccharin intake, and continuously monitored their glucose levels. Four of the seven volunteers showed a poorer glycemic response at the end of the week compared to their baseline responses. Those who showed no metabolic response to the sweetener had no change in their gut microbiomes, while those who exhibited the worst glycemic responses at the end of the week showed a different gut microbiota profile after sweetener exposure. Fecal transplants from two artificial sweetener-responder volunteers into germ-free mice resulted in a similar gut microbe profile and glucose intolerance as did transplants from saccharin-consuming mice. But the same transplants from two non-responder volunteers had no such effect in germ-free mice.


Personally, I'm not ready to go to town with the idea that non-caloric artificial sweeteners disrupt the gut biome independently of behaviour-related effects on diet.
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  #71   ^
Old Thu, Jul-16-15, 08:57
Mayflowers's Avatar
Mayflowers Mayflowers is offline
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Posts: 591
 
Plan: Atkins/LC
Stats: 205/150/150 Female 5'5"
BF:35
Progress: 100%
Location: Jersey Girl
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All these people who are not losing on Atkins. So many post on the website saying they started to lose weight and now its stalled and not coming off. Well the REASON is because of Sucralose and aspartame and saccharine. As soon as I stopped the sucralose, my weight started dropping again. I'm wondering when people will figure this out. Atkins bars and shakes stop weight loss. And they're remark about "only 3 per day" is crap. Even 1 a day will IMO stop weight loss
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  #72   ^
Old Thu, Jul-16-15, 09:15
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,521
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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teaser, you can start with the studies here...I certainly didn't look them all up http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...nfuse-body.aspx but have at it
Anyone is free to lambast Dr. Mercola all they want but he has been sounding the alarm a long time, and in a recent interview, indicated there would be some very big news about these sweeteners next year.

In a previous "discussion" on the safety of sweetners, I placed the Purdue study by Susan Swithers and Duke and NCSU study by Susan Schiffman here, and people tore them apart as badly designed, so I'll just add these articles from the Boston Globe and Science News.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/lifesty...PmhO/story.html

https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/sc...cial-sweeteners

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18800291

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Jul-16-15 at 09:23.
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  #73   ^
Old Thu, Jul-16-15, 10:47
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Lol, I'm not really ready to lambast any studies. I don't think sweeteners are not a problem, I just think the evidence points at them not being a universal problem. You can make a rodent overweight or sick through a protocol where artificial sweeteners are added to their routine. But it matters how you go about it. Personally, I've found that splenda in tea or coffee has no obvious effect on me. Added to peanuts/nuts mixed with butter and cocoa--suddenly it tastes a bit too much like raw cookie dough, and I end up in a bit of a bind.



There's possible direct effects of sweeteners. And then there's the effect sweeteners might have on consumption of actual food. Even when it's not added to the food. Which is more appealing--pizza washed down with water, or pizza washed down with diet soda? I used to have a plain bagel and a diet coke every day on the way home from high school. It was a good bagel, but probably wouldn't have had the same appeal if I'd washed it down with plain water.

I don't doubt personal results, where people cut out sweeteners and start losing weight on atkins where they were stalled before. But there are plenty of anecdotes from people who weren't stalled by artificial sweeteners.
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  #74   ^
Old Thu, Jul-16-15, 14:20
Mayflowers's Avatar
Mayflowers Mayflowers is offline
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Posts: 591
 
Plan: Atkins/LC
Stats: 205/150/150 Female 5'5"
BF:35
Progress: 100%
Location: Jersey Girl
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Well maybe not everyone experiences weight stall from sweeteners but I do and a ton of people posting on Atkins website. And it should be obvious that something 'artificial' can't be healthy!
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  #75   ^
Old Thu, Jul-16-15, 14:35
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Not really. No more than it's obvious that something natural must be healthy.
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