I met Bear twice and he looks exactly like he says he does. Exactly. Very toned muscle wise, not to big though like a body builder but very defined and he looked maybe his in 40's let along 60 something when I met him. Very smooth skin on his arms and legs with just a little bit of wrinkling in the face but that's about it.

Bear was very kind and gracious when I met him and he was extremely supportive the first time I tried the diet. I say diet because at that time I was still attached to the "some veggies are good" myth and tried to replace the crappy things I ate as a kid with "low-carb" substitutes.

40 days and counting so far on an all meat diet. The last time I was this dedicated at something I had to scrape up tickets for an entire run of bay area Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia Band shows

Rob..when you started this time how long before you eat this much fat without getting ill...I know I need more fat and cal's but my gag reflex is getting in the way

I do my best to try! If you need some "reason" or "excuse" to consume vegetation, I would suggest you look no further than the food pyramid put out by the USDA. That is all many people need to justify their dietary habits. They will feel so much better knowing they are eating a "balanced diet" when following such good advice. No need to look any further... really. It's all there for you... in pretty colors too. And, it's backed by the United States Government. If that is not reassuring, I don't know what is.

But I will go on following a different way... trying my best to "ignore everything else"... everything else except the way I feel after trying things out for myself. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes... if you are interested.

Oh... and Lisa...just curious. Do you always just do only what you have been told and try and find a "link" for everything else?

Relax dude. I didn't insult your mother or anything. Why are people on this board so uppity? You have a right to believe what you do, and so do I. One of us is right.

Ok, here's a test. Wake up in the morning and get your fasting insulin tested. Then, go eat a half pound steak. Then come back in two hours, and get your insulin tested again.

Just try it.

I have tried like, every diet. All meat, all vegetable, all fruit, juice fasting, South Beach, Atkins, high fiber, low fiber, high fat, low fat, 30/40/30, Body for life, low GI.... Who are you to say I've never tried anything as extreme as you? Sure, not for the length of time you've done your diet, but I've been consistent and dedicated and my health has suffered for it.

However, if you have been following an all-meat diet for that long, then clearly it is possible to get enough nutrition from it (though I can't see how). So, I stand corrected in that point. Nevertheless, the fact that you are healthy, having eaten this way, does not imply that all people who eat this way will be healthy.

What is your fasting adrenaline and cortisol?

Again though, glad to hear it works for you. Eating lots of meat doesn't make me personally feel very well (red meat, anyway. I think I have gallstones or allergies or something. Lamb especially will knock me flat). Eating too much white meat makes me totally hyper. Too many calories. I have a very slow metabolism. When you eat enough protein, some of it will be converted into carbohydrate. Prove me wrong on that point. The process also causes adrenaline to rise.

http://www.warriordiet.com/ <--- this guy also believes he has found the secret to longevity, and his solution is totally different to yours. He eats carbs, and he still looks young and fit for his age.

Calorie restrictive dieters also believe that their diet results in life extenstion.
The are probably right. They eat carbs.

My point is that, your diet might not work for everyone and you have no evidence to support many of your claims. You say that eating protein won't cause a rise in insulin? Go test it on yourself, and let's see. Why would medical journals make something like that up? Where did you ever read that eating protein does NOT raise insulin?

And no, I'm not going to go read this whole thread, I'm a busy dude. Eating too much meat also DOES make me sick. Eating 5000 cals a day would kill me.

Look, dude. I don't want to fight. I'm a wuss. And I admit I may be wrong. However, I firmly believe that an all-meat diet might not be great for all people and might not be the most healthy or pleasant option. I also believe it might be hard to get out of once you are in. So, all I'm doing is cautioning people. Fools rush in. I've tried diets which have all but killed me because they were supposed to be super healthy. Juice fasting. That was the worst. Just BE CAREFUL. That said, if they want to try the carnivourous approach, they will do it.

Now I've had my 2c.
You will probably not hear from me again.
And again, I genuinely am pleased you've found a way of eating that keeps you healthy. I would go carnivourous in an instant if it had the same effect on me. I'm so tired of being sick.

And, furthermore, 5000 cals in a day with 20% cals from protein is 250g of protein which IS a high protein diet.

I should point out that this diet is very similar to the homo optimus diet:
http://homodiet.netfirms.com/
without the carbs. Which I have also tried. Never stopped being hungry on that one! (and I was eating way fewer carbs than they prescribe)

Was that your intention?... or do you think being "consistent and dedicated" is not healthy?Perhaps you DO need to try and be more "consistent and dedicated"... instead of being such a "busy dude". From reading your post, it sounds like you have been grasping at every "diet" you can find... for about 5 minutes... then wondering why nothing works. Perhaps if you just slowed down and tried to read, reason, and come to some understanding... then gave something a bit longer to work. I think you should heed your own warning and "BE CAREFUL" yourself. Good luck.

i have 2 concerns/questions

i had blood tests taken today and it showed my sodium to be too low! I havent been adding any salt to anything as you suggested Bear. Is it ok for my sodium to be too low?

Second concern..White Blood Count is high, and so is my son's (he is doing low carb). I asked WHY it would be high and was told probably because of a viral infection of some sort. i am not SICK that i know of! Has anyone else had elevated WBC?? Why are mine and my sons elevated? Should this be a concern?

It's a myth. Protein doesn't rise blood sugar above the baseline. There is a study on type II diabetics which shows that feeding close to 100 gr of protein in one meal (don't remember the correct number) have no impact on blood sugar levels.
If you are starving and your blood sugar is below normal level protein will put it back to normal but never above.
On the old proteinpower board there was a good post by a biochemist who explained how gluconeogenesis with no/very low carb diet works. Basically no carbs not to worry about protein being turn into sugar.

That's the summary of the study I was talking about:

"Indeed, in 1915, Dr. Janney [1] reported that 3.5 g glucose can be obtained from 6.25 g of ingested meat or beef protein. Thus, theoretically for every 100 g of protein ingested, 56 g of glucose can be produced. For other proteins this varies between 50 and 84 grams. Thus when developing a dietary regimen for diabetic patients, dietitians were taught to count not only carbohydrate, but also to count 56% of the protein as carbohydrate. The rationale behind this recommendation was that carbohydrates raised blood glucose, proteins are converted to glucose, therefore, dietary proteins will raise blood glucose.

However, in 1924, Dr. MacLean [2] reported that when a man with diabetes, and a fasting blood glucose of 280 mg/dl, ingested 250 g of meat, which is the equivalent of 50 grams of protein, and which should result in the production of ~25 g of glucose, there was no change in blood glucose over the 5 hours of the study. When the same subject ingested 25 g of glucose, there was a very large increase in blood glucose; indeed, it increased up to 600 mg/dl."

So as you see no gluconeogenesis. Protein turning into sugar is a myth but backed in 1915 and still alive.

Hi Karenmarie,

I am a concerned that you would ask these questions over the internet, rather than of your doctor.

Low sodium can indeed cause major problems. I presume yours was not too low, or your doctor would have you in hospital by now on a saline IV drip.

But please, discuss these questions with your doctor.

Rosebud

Mayo? I have a problem with mayo which is a salty concoction of unsat vegetable oil, emulsified with something, perhaps egg yolk but perhaps some other emulsifying compound, and usually contains some lemon juice- and sugar. It might be the sugar which attracts you. You may need to 'limit' this, but nothing else would be limited, except perhaps liver....

I used to like the stuff, but have not been able to tolerate the sticky salty quality for years and making your own seems way more trouble than it is worth. My wife likes the S&W brand which at least uses egg yolks. European mayo has too much sugar. I would not use much mayo. The other things don't matter in quantity.

Quantity is not important so long as you eat enough to feel satisfied. If you don't eat enough, you will not be happy with your routine. Think about eating, don't worry about losing fat- so long as you eat the right things, and avoid carbs you are going to lose no matter what it is, or how much or how little that you eat. The more you worry about what you eat, the less able you will be to adopt the path. Relax, eat, and have fun.

Odd you can't find it, I seem to recall telling about the double off-pump bypass I had in 2000. The blockage was present from my teens, and caused classic angina when I began ballet training in my early 20's. I thought it was just my intercostal muscles hurting, due to the sudden experience of very heavy breathing. It passed, and did not return until much later after a period of low activity, followed by renewed strenuous exercise- it passed then too. The heart's coronaries lose the ability to form new arterial pathways (anastomosis) by the mid 20's.... in some people, earlier than that. My cardiologist remarked on the extent of my 'natural bypass' which he said confirmed that the blockage was very old indeed. The blockage, over 90% was in the (left) descending artery, the single, critical feeder for the ventricles, the most important muscle group in the heart. I had another, minor narrowing of ~60% in the right circumflex, not considered operable alone, but they still fixed it while attending to the other. The damage was there, as it is in everyone (shown by autopsies on kids- as young as 13), by the end of my teen years, and only became a real problem after I had put on about 35 pounds of muscle in a few years starting in '90. The added mass required more oxygen than my compromised heart could provide, even though it had grown 5% larger than average. I have had a slightly grey complexion all my adult life. It was gone forever when I came out of surgery. I healed up so fast I was able to do incline dumbbell presses three weeks post-op. The new arterial connections add extra blood supply to my heart, and the result is more endurance and strength than ever before in my entire life.

People are so 'uppity' because we don't take well to ignorance and arrogance masquerading as royalty.

Everyone I have ever heard about on a similar or identical path was (and is) healthy. We all have the same body- whether you like that truth or not. This regime works, it works well and it works for everyone.

Adrenalin is rapidly inactivated, it has an average blood half-life of about 50-100 milliseconds, and is only released by stress/fear- it is very short acting.

Cortisol is a catabolic hormone released to break down tissues and aid recovery from injury. It is not present unless you have suffered damage, or severe stress, it is present after a heavy workout, but quickly passes.

Of course I have been extensively tested, as have others who followed this regime. Your claim is complete nonsense. I will here state categorically that you have NEVER tried anything even close to this dietary regime- for any period of time let alone for long enough to become keto-adapted. What you have said so far, and your adamant insistence on your very conventional dietary fantasies is proof positive of that.

Why indeed would people who publish in medical journals 'make things up'? For money, my naive fellow, and for fame and position, but usually for the gift of grants to 'show' a certain claim is 'true'. Much of what appears in in those sacred-to-you journals is bogus- like the drug-testing (think vioxx) of late, and the iniquities are increasingly exposed, but of course- you are much too busy to read that- as well as our thread, aren't you?

I am truly sorry for you, you will never find the proper diet the way you ra re going. You admit you're having a great deal if difficulty with nutrition, and yet you refuse to read what has been said about diet in our thread. You appear fixed and so rigid in your diet-fantasy world that no amount of truth will persuade you.

Of course you won't read the thread (arrogance anyone?), it would expose you to too way much of the truth, and you obviously cannot handle that sort of stress, it could raise your cortisol and might even cause you to melt down into a tiny, sticky puddle. Just joking of course.... You do know what a joke is, don't you? I mean, you do appear to be one.

Sodium will fall while you are eliminating excess intake, as soon as you have adjusted to the lower intake it will stabilise at a normal level. White blood cells indicate some sort of immune system activity, like a cold, which may not be obvious. Do you always worry so much about literally everything? It must be very hard on you. Back off a bit and relax- life is supposed to be fun. Fear is not fun.

Being consistent and dedicated is not healthy if you are doing the wrong thing. I have an obsessive personality, so when I try a thing, I do it 120%. I have tried diets long enough for them to mess me up. Do you have any idea how much dedication it takes to stay on a vegetable juice diet? It's MUCH harder to do than an all- meat diet. Some of the diets I did indeed drop quickly, but only after it became apparent they were doing more harm than good (when your vision starts blurring, you know it's time to give up). The meat-only thing, I tried for quite a while (although I did cheat occasionally - typically once a month if I think back- very hard for me to sustain indefinitely), mainly because I was diagnosed with candida and felt that this would be a good way to starve the blighters into oblivion. I still eat mostly meat and fat, with a smattering of low carb veggies and some nuts and seeds. My bowels work much better now than during my all-meat phase. I can't tolerate carbs. Before I did the all-meat thing, I could tolerate carbs. They didn't make me feel good, but they didn't make me sick either. Now they make me sick. I'm not happy about that.

I have, as a matter of fact, read a lot and reasoned and come to my own understanding. And my understanding is that most of what I read in the bear's first post is simply not true. There is a simple way to settle the insulin thing:

Measure fasting insulin, go eat a steak, then measure insulin again in two hours.
Go and do it. If your insulin does not increase, I'd like to know because then indeed a great many journals are full of lies. But, why would they lie?

Ellis in his book posted a result of a study where there was no insulin response from eating chicken. I don't remember if he stated how much of a chicken has been eaten. But based on a study I've posted here if no blood sugar change from eating 50 gr of protein in one meal it may mean no insulin increase.

If you mean blood glucose I have done that. Last night with some flounder and tonight I have steak and will do it again.

BG prior to eating flounder and 6 hours after lunch was 89, BG 1 hour after eating flounder 92 Flounder was baked w/ coconut oil and some thai seasoning

BTW I am type 2

What does it take to stop the mindless prattle and nonsense about protein turning into glucose?

I will once more state unequivocally that everything in my opening post is the truth, the whole truth and nothing whatsoever BUT the truth. You may not agree, I am sure you don't. But that does not change anything.

Many people hold the damndest falsehoods to be gospel, so I am not surprised you don't understand what you read- but just because you can't understand, or it doesn't fit in with what YOU think is true, does not mean it is not true, the obvious alternative viewpoint is that it is you who are wrong.

I have no interest in lies, conjecture and false beliefs, What I write is based on careful investigation, tested research (much is bogus) and 47 years of real-world experience, plus the result of interaction with literally hundreds of people in many places- over that considerable time span.

I don't appreciate constant harping about something as nonsensical as 'eat a steak and your glucose and or insulin (they are locked together) will rise'. It won't, and others have also just told you so- so why are you acting as if you cannot read plain English?

What is your purpose here if you don't want to, or cannot learn about your mistaken ideas?

Get a life.

I stopped drinking alcohol two days ago (I know, too soon to tell), and the menu I posted yesterday had but 2 grams of carbs from the peanut butter (the jar is now gone, and I won't buy more). The only other carbs come from what little there are in the eggs and heavy cream. I've been eating 4 eggs for breakfast, and consuming maybe 4 Tbsp of heavy cream a day.

Not that I am doubing you, it's just hard to believe this could be causing my inability to lose any pounds or inches (measured with the "jeans-o-meter").

Be that as it may, I have dropped the peanut butter as of today.

This morning I was up 3 pounds since last week.

My lab tests recently said my cortisol, DHEA, estradiol, and progesterone were way out of range on the low side. I take no medications -- no BC pills, no HRT. Do you think that these hormones being out of balance is causing my problems? Do you think that if I get them in balance (unfortunately through meds for a time), it will help?

Sorry for being a pest. I want this to work. I know it will work. It's just not working in my case. There has to be a reason.

Oh, I use Fitday only infrequently to judge, for example, what 80% fat looks like. I'm aware of the measure of food (like I can spot a 6 oz steak just by looking), but do not weigh and measure everything I eat.

Oh, and you mentioned that my hunger could be "a response to ongoing ingestion of vegetation." I haven't had a vegetable in weeks. Even when I was eating veggies, I didn't eat much -- so much less, in fact, that people were always telling me I wasn't eating enough veggies.

So, what do you think of the hormones in this equation?

No, Dean. I do my research and decide for myself based on multiple references rather than rely on some internet stranger to tell me how to eat.

Yes cause we are all brainless and have to rely on others to tell us how to eat?? I for one can make my own decisions. Did it prior to The Bear and will continue too. Many others have too. Just read the Meat and Egg thread.

What's your BF at the moment? I'm male but I noticed that to stay under 10% BF (I just like it that way) even on meat/fat only diet I need to watch my calories and never feel really full. No real hunger but slight feeling of undereating (which I find pleasent) does a trick for me.

Those 3 pounds may mean your body is fat-loading. It means that you didn't eat enough fat before. Muscle of fat-adapted person can store fat for energy.
So lower fat for few days and see what's going on.

Dude, if an all-meat diet makes me as grumpy as you...

You act like this is a religion or something.

Look, I'm not here to argue, just to state my views, so cheers, goodbye and good-luck.

Maybe I'll do the "eat meat and check insulin" test on myself. It'll be an interesting experiment. But then I have to get up early to get my fasting insulin tested... hmmm
Maybe next week...

Can I ask one question though? A bit gross, but I'm curious:
How do your bowels work? That was my biggest problem on an all meat diet. Wasn't pretty. Ugliest stool I ever saw.

This thread makes for great reading....

Yakumo, theBear has stated several times that if you up fat, you shouldn't have any BM problems. Did you eat enough fat while you were on an "all-meat" diet? I seem to remember a couple times where you stated you had trouble getting into ketosis. That usually means you didn't eat enough fat. I have tried this meat diet (high fat, adequate protein, very low in carbs) for nearly a month -- I go to bathroom a lot less due to the low residue of the meat, but have had no consitipation problems.

BTW I want to add that before this experiment, I always thought it was the fiber that helped the BM go smoothly, but as I'm seeing for myself now, fiber is a bit overrated. Before doing this, I was someone who ate a lot of fiber from veggies every day. It was easy for me to eat a lb of romaine a day.

This thread prompted me to read further from Stefansson, which Bear has quoted a few times. I had read references multiple times to Stefansson, though never tracked down the details...

http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson1.htm
comes from a quick google that I read through that I found interesting. Describes some of his living/eating with the Inuit, and the 2nd page describes his year long study with Belvue. It made for some interesting reading, and fits with what Bear has been describing.

I found the point that Stefansson mentions that on a normal day he was eating around 1.5lbs of lean meat during the study. (I realize Bear has mentioned about not monitoring how much - but I have to limit myself as while I'm not usually hungry between meals, once I do start eating, I tend to go overboard - more out of habit. Hell, I can 2lb of steak or such (fatty or otherwise) at a sitting if I let myself LOL)

When I eat fatty meat/eggs only and drink a lot of water I have regular BM with no problems. When I add cheeses and cream it gets a little irregular but still no major problems.
If BM gets too loose it means I eat too much fat.
I don't stick to meat only diet all the time but my BM are most regular when I eat nothing but meat/fats/eggs.

Bear,
How do you go out to restaurants? Do you? Do you just order rare steak?

I'm definitely interested in this, but I'm about to move to an amazing city for restaurants. Just wondering what your approach is there.

I have read this thread, so I apologize if I missed anything.

I ran into a Chippiwa from N. Minnesota and he said they still eat that way up there. I was really fascinated to talk with him. He's my neice's new boyfriend so hopefully I'll get a chance to ask him more questions. I'd be interested to know if their pregnant women have a different diet.

Meg,
what do you season your sliced heart with?

When did this thread get moved to the War Zone? I always thought that forum was intended for people who are opposed to low-carb eating to post. Bear is totally a proponent of low-carb eating, to the point of no-carb eating.

I agree this thread has gotten downright mean at times, and also believe that it is due in part to Bear's directness, which sometimes borders on rudeness.

However. He is telling us what works for him and why.

I guess it doesn't matter where this is posted, as long as I can find it. It just seems like a bit of a slap in the face to move it to the War Zone.

Whatever. I'll keep reading and learning. AND, deciding for myself.