Oh my goodness, I'm embarrassed for that lady, I would NEVER tell anyone how to raise their children! the nerve of her

If it's the one thing I learnt working in a supermarket is the most scariest thing in the world is a 'Mother'. They don't need reason to attack, they will pounce even if smiled at.
I must implore evryone who reads this, if you see a mother and her children out in public - just run goddamit! Save yourself!

I don't think that lady was brave, just niave and silly. She has no right to lecture anyone about the evils of aspartame! It's people's own private business what they put in their bodies.


With the whole - overweight lady losing credibility as a nutrionist thing, I've lived my whole life as a fat person, and it's just a discrimination we have to live with. I just ignore it now, I don't dwell on it.

It gets bad though, when you say to someone 'Look out there is a car coming and could hit you, they stop and think 'I dunno if this guy is truthful, afterall he is fat!'.
And when I give customers advice they go "Hmmm logically I can understand that, but could I speak to someone much less fat, I'd fell more compfortable about that!" I'm like "certaintly, here is one of the skinny junior people, enjoy".

But I hate it when you go to the store and but something (let's say paint) and you say "Can I have a number 2 red ?" and they go "Are you sure, I mean, you are fat, what the hell would you know ?" I'm like "call me fiancee, she's not fat and she'll confirm it"!

So you see as fat as I am, I do sometimes navigate this skinny world, and it's not so bad, occasionally some nice skinny folk will say hello sometimes.

Zajack, you put it perfectly. Thank you.

ummm...I have to say that I've rethought this issue.

After some serious contemplation...I've realized that "yes" relating the nutritionist's weight to her knowledge was unfair and prejudicial (although certainly not intended that way nor even perceived, I dont think). The woman may, in fact, have metabolic issues that cause her to be obese...or perhaps she's already lost 100 pounds and is "in progress".

The bottom line is that we dont know her story. There are people on this forum who are still morbidly obese but have tremendous knowledge and have experienced great successes...she could have been one of them. Anyway...My suspicion would still be that she simply doesnt eat properly to maintain a healthy weight...not because the other considerations cant be true...simply because they're usually not.

Another emotional trigger is a defensive prejudice against "nutritionists" in general because they almost universally subscibe to the food pyramid & low/cal, low/fat diet for weight loss while bashing low-carb. It's a defensive response for many of us....we instantly get our guard up when we hear "certified nutritionist."

So while remarking on weight was pehaps completely irrelevant to the basic issue (and perhaps an unfair judgement~which I too may very well have made in the same situation, spirit)...it doesnt negate the overall rudeness factor of the encounter and I still believe the woman was out of line.

"If it's the one thing I learnt working in a supermarket is the most scariest thing in the world is a 'Mother'. They don't need reason to attack, they will pounce even if smiled at.
I must implore evryone who reads this, if you see a mother and her children out in public - just run goddamit! Save yourself!"

Hmmm, LCDave - I see you've seen me and family on one of our visits to Melbourne! LOL!

Seriously, kids in public with low blood sugar are not fun. If you are not prepared then a sugary treat is often the quickest way to prevent a meltdown. I'm the first to admit my children eat a crap diet and that it is my fault. But I am working on it, slowly, slowly.

So while remarking on weight was pehaps completely irrelevant to the basic issue (and perhaps an unfair judgement~which I too may very well have made in the same situation, spirit)...it doesnt negate the overall rudeness factor of the encounter and I still believe the woman was out of line.

I am happy to make allowances for the fact that there are factors that I am unaware of contributing to the weight of the buttinsky. I would clarify, that this woman was not simply overweight. She was extremely obese. Obviously many of us can eat a very healthy diet and still not be thin, and I wouldn't say that anyone who's a certified nutritionist, or for that matter a trainer or athlete, must be thin in order to have credibility. I used to work with a woman who looked like she was about 30 pounds overweight, but she ran marathons and could certainly run circles around me. Incidentally, we took my daughter to a CN a couple of years ago so we could get some assistance with teaching her about food choices and portions and so forth, and the CN that we took her to was a comfortably built woman. Although I disagreed (mentally) with some of what she said about percentages and # of servings per day with respect to the food pyramid, much of what she said did help my daughter immensely in learning to eat healthier. My general problem with CN's is their tendency to want to tell ALL of us how we should eat, when their way is not for everyone; but they honestly believe they are gastronomic prophets and that drives me bananas.

I would venture to say that I do believe it is next to impossible to be eating a healthy, balanced diet and be *as* obese as this particular woman was. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I am also having another thought and I'm not sure it's going to come out here the way I'm seeing it in my head. I am not thin. I'm nowhere near as big as I was, and I don't think most people would look at me now and think, "wow, she needs to lose some weight," but I'm still a good hour-and-a-half-glass. However, I do feel that I have become far more educated on healthy eating, the composition of diets, and so forth, than your average joe. Not a CN (thank God) but sort of a secular guru of nutrition. That said, I would never venture to impose my opinion on anyone who hasn't asked for it. Partly because I'm simply not that arrogant, and partly because I do feel that they would glance at me and think, "uh, excuse me, talk to me about this when you're a bit healthier yourself." And IMO they would be justified. If you can't practice what you're preaching, the best thing to do is shut up. To me it's not that different from the "MISSIONARIES" who ring your doorbell on Saturday morning. I appreciate that you have the strength of your convictions, but for Pete's sake. I already go to church, and just because it's not YOUR church, doesn't mean it's a bad church.

Not that I agree with the woman butting in (which I don't) and ignoring the whole "weight of the messenger" issue entirely, here's a question for everyone to ponder ...

You're in that line, and you see a mom slapping her kid. What do you do? Do you turn and look away, or do you step up and say something?

How about verbal abuse? What if she's swearing a blue streak and calling the kid a worthless piece of sh**?

How many of us would come to that kid's defense, or would we "Mind our own business" and just trust that her hitting or name-calling is her own choice of parenting style?

If this woman was all hopped up on her newest internet e-mail "lesson" on artificial sweeteners, she may just have felt in her own mind that she was intervening in a situation of equal importance.

Just for the record, I've been guilty of turning the other way when I SHOULD have spoken up, AND I've been the recipient of unwelcome intrusion in a store when I wouldn't give in to my son's whining for a candy bar.

Where does a person draw the line? IS there a line?

I have sort of a stupid question,

Keep in mind I have no back-up for this reasoning, so maybe you guys can help me out I never give my kids diet pop, because I heard somewhere that diet pop (aspartame) turns to formaldehyde in digestion. Yes I am aware of the irony. I drink it, why can't the kids? Bottom line is I am more concerned for them than for me. Does anyone know the health concerns behind aspartame consumption in children versus adults ? I guess I always was concerned I would do some sort of neurological damage or something. No...my kids do not drink pop everyday, but I'd like to know which is better. I know I'm in the war zone, but please be gentle

Leanna

After asking my question this is what I found:

"My son likes to drink soft drinks. I allow him one per day. I always
buy the caffeine-free variety, but I'm wondering what your opinion is
on artificial sweeteners and kids. Which is "less evil," artificial
sweeteners or sugar?"

Dr. Greene's answer: "The best research on NutraSweet (aspartame) has
not shown any conclusive problems. In the body, it breaks down into
two amino acids that are naturally a part of the diet. Sugar is loaded
with calories and it puts stress on the body's mechanisms for
regulating energy levels...If choosing between the two soda
possibilities, I would opt for the artificially sweetened soda."

Dr. Donald Hensrud of the Mayo Clinic had this to say in an August 2005 column
(http://www.medicaledge.org/newspape...august14.html):

"There seems to be a lingering perception that nonnutritive sweeteners
are bad for you. But research hasn’t shown any significant health
concerns. In 1977, the FDA proposed a ban on saccharin because of a
suspected link to cancer in rats. It turned out that the research was
flawed. There’s no credible evidence that saccharin or other
nonnutritive sweeteners cause cancer."

He does, however, include the following precautions:

- "People with phenylketonuria (PKU), a rare genetic metabolism
disorder, should avoid aspartame because of possible health risks."
- "Even though data shows nonnutritive sweeteners are safe, it may be
prudent to limit how often you give them to children. These sweeteners
have been part of our food supply for only a relatively short time.
Children are more susceptible to any potential effects, and research
hasn’t specifically focused on their effects on children."

The FDA Consumer magazine, in its May-June 2005 issue, simply
recommends chossing "diet soda, low-fat or fat-free milk, water,
flavored water, or 100 percent fruit juice" as alternatives to regular
soda (http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2005/305_eat.html).

So while the final choice is yours, it seems that given the
association between regular soda and tooth decay/obesity and the lack
of scientific evidence that artifical sweeteners are harmful, diet
soda may be a better option for your child provided it continues to be
consumed in moderation.

You may also wish to check out the following links:

"Do Artificial Sweeteners Present Health Risks?" on JunkScience.com, a
website created by FoxNews.com columnist Steven J. Milloy
< http://www.junkscience.com/may03/wsj-sweeteners.htm >

"Soda Consumption Puts Kids At Risk For Obesity, Diabetes,
Osteoporosis, And Cavities"
< http://www.publichealthadvocacy.org...0Sheet11.04.pdf >

"Sugar Substitute" on Wikipedia
< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_substitute >

Anyways, I guess I answered my own question...I think I'll get the diet variety from now on...yeah I know...just a little reading....sorry.

Leanna

I hear ya. I once chanced upon a very young child left outside a store along, crying his eyes out, at night! Man, I did not know what to do. Apparently the parent left the kid outside alone. In retrospect I should have taken the kid inside and turned him over to the store manager.

Slapping, spanking, shouting, abusiveness... I wouldn't respond to in a store, but if it were a neighbor, I might put in a call to CPS, I suppose it would depend on the health of the child. Really, really tough call. You want to help the kids, but there are an awful lots of parents that are just bad and without a clue but they're not going to physically harm their kids.

So does tomato juice, in much high quantities (of formaldehyde). The body can handle those amounts just fine. It's not like you are drinking straight formaldehyde.

You're in that line, and you see a mom slapping her kid. What do you do? Do you turn and look away, or do you step up and say something?

How about verbal abuse? What if she's swearing a blue streak and calling the kid a worthless piece of sh**?

This is a fair question. My response is this: The *vast* majority of sane, functional adult Americans would agree that slapping your child across the face, or swearing at them in this manner, is physical and verbal abuse. That's a pretty easy go-by IMO. If it's something that the mom would probably not do if she saw a policeperson standing next to her, then there you go. That said, it's still very tricky, because unless you can acquire said policeperson before the parent leaves the store, you might just make things worse for the child by intervening.

However, even the most zealous die-hard sugar defending, aspartame hating nutritionist in the world, is well aware that there are many different schools of thought when it comes to what's healthy and what's not. To me, that is what makes the line of distinction between intervention, and butting in. It's not hard to find 10 adults who agree that swearing at your child is verbal abuse. Take those same 10 adults and quiz them on what they permit their children to eat for treats or snack foods. You'll get 10 different answers, and each one will likely be well thought out and passionate.

This is a pretty meaningless warning. The amount of phenylalanine contained in aspartame sweetened foods and beverages is trivially small and pales in comparison with the phenylalanine in unlabeled natural foods. Those with PKU have to avoid the following foods, none of which have warnings attached to them, but all have high amounts of phenylalanine: meat, fish, poultry, eggs, cheese, milk, dried beans, peas etc.

Leanna, here's another link to a recent discussion on Aspartame.
Aspartame is broken down into three different molecules; Aspartic acid, phenylalanine and methanol. It's that methanol molecule that is further transformed into formaldehyde within the body, although in very tiny amounts. It's the phenylalanine molecule that people with PKU can't handle.
Keep in mind that 1 gram of Aspartame has the sweetness of 200 grams of sugar (about 1 cup!) and I have to agree with Dr. Eades that most people would be far better off having 1 gram of Aspartame (even though average consumption is about 1/3 of that) than 200 grams of sugar.

Thanks guys,

I don't know why that had me so concerned...thanks for illuminating

Leanna