Or she could research the info herself instead of swallowing Big Pharma's propaganda. http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=299421

By the way, whoa, my Dad had numbers very close to yours and had a triple bypass three years ago. Low readings aren't then end all and it's pretty clear that there is more to it than that.

Yes yes.... pharma propaganda. I don't want to sound too arrogant but I'm not into all this conspiracy theory stuff =/

Sorry about your dad, but Low cholesterol can indicative of bad health...

Though Believe me, I am faaaarrrrr from being in bad health lol. All tests that I've had done show that I am extremely healthy. I talk to hundreds of people with cholesterol levels the same as me and have had them for upto 15 years.

please watch this http://tinyurl.com/nq46j

"very young and healthy cardiovascular system"
"15 years younger than average"

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_relea...o-cra011206.php

Anyway this thread really isn't about me, I think that you shouldn't totally buy into this whole cholesterol myth stuff. Especially as the data is not conclusive yet.

Cathy,

Thanks for the clarification on the wine vs. vinegar thing. I like the vinegar thing because of reading threads around here about how beneficial it is. That's pretty interesting about the wine though, and like I said, the AA is implicated in arthritis flare-ups too, not just the cholesterol thing, so it's a very helpful piece of information - thank you for posting it. I use red wine when cooking the LC Beef Bourguignon that I make, and I hadn't thought of using as a steak marinade. I'll try it next time I'm marinating some beef.

As for the cholesterol numbers, sorry to hear that ...I know I'd be conflicted and concerned if I were in the same situation.

And Egnue, when I say that we don't really worry about eggs or red meat, perhaps I could be more specific. We'll eat steak about once a week, and we eat eggs just about everyday. Not for any particular reason, just want more variety in our dinner meals. I'm not a huge beef eater...I'm a person who loves fish. But I do like a nice steak every now and then, and my husband and I don't see the need to restrict our intake. But like I said earlier, we did put a lot of effort into adding in some of the so-called "good" fats to balance things out a bit.

As for everyone else - re: big pharma or whatever...it's similar to how a lot of diabetics don't get any information about the effect of carbs on their blood sugars...and the standard diabetic diet isn't good enough to help the situation. People are left to find it in a book and try it out for themselves. I don't know what to think when it comes to the "cholesterol myth".

Good luck to everyone trying to lower triglycerides and increase HDL in the meantime.

Some of you might be interested in "The New 8-Week Cholesterol Cure" by Robert E. Kowalski.

Make sure you get the latest version (2002) as it has some important updates, including a section on low-carb eating, a chapter called, "A Simple Proposal for Weight Control". There's even a chapter called, "Listening to Your Inner Carnivore".

There's lots more things in this book that could be helpful too, as he lays out the different types of supplements that are proven to help the situation. More things than I remembered, such as phytosterols.

Here's a few quotes from the introduction to his newly updated book:

"...we can, in good health, enjoy foods that were previously forbidden. Nuts. Rich caesar salads. An amazing plant substance that can block the body's absorption of cholesterol from foods, allowing us to once again enjoy eggs and shrimp and other cholesterol-rich favourites. New types of incredibly delicious beef have come onto the market. No more counting fat grams. No more food deprivation. "

and a few sentences later:

"Weren't all fats bad? Didn't Mr. Pritikin and Dr. Ornish advocate a near-vegetarian diet for anyone wanting to protect his or her heart? Sadly, advice can turn into dogma. Followers of certain beliefs enter what can only be called cults that allow no progress or change. "

"I originally wrote that egg yolks were out of my diet forever. Now they are back, and I can enjoy them without guilt. Once I believed that all fat must be restricted. Now I know that some fats are actually good for your heart, while others do absolutely no harm".

Anyway, it's just this paperback that I picked up a couple of years ago...and I thought Cathy and Gen might be interested. Cost me about $8. If you do buy it, be sure to read the introduction which explains the many changes in the field of "good heart health nutrition" and the new discoveries about certain supplements and how they can help.

I think I'll need to read it again myself, just to make sure my husband is getting the supplements that will help, especially now that he's sworn off the Vytorin.

Sara

Geez. Makes ya wonder WTH we ever did before all this cholesterol testing gave us something more to worry about.

Gee... isn't the whole Atkins thing that you are NOT what you eat. Your body processes every morsel. WHATEVER you eat, it's ground up and disolved and is NEVER injected directly into the bloodstream. Getting into ketosis actually makes you start BURNING fat.

My cardiologist said high cholesterol was MUCH more heredity than diet. Higher HDL levels and LOWER triglycerides ARE the diet though. (well, HDL I think is exercise too).

Gen, higher triglycerides would imply eating off plan IMHO

(cathy.. I wonder if your earlier, higher trigly... were due to LC ice cream?? I wonder if sugar alcohols DO affect your triglycerides even though they don't give you an insulin spike.....just thinking out loud).

Hmmmm.... I am REALLY in favor of the 3D cat scan. ALL these tests are aimed at preventing arterial disease, and the arterial scan actually checks directly in the major arteries.

I WISH you could just listen to Doctor's advice, but WHICH DOCTOR! ....and I WISH the medical community would get their act in gear and change the dang food pyramid that ENDORSES so many dang carbs.

Don't know if any of that helped.. but those are my thoughts.

Mike

Cutting saturated fat will lead to lower HDL, and that is not a good thing.



If you read the studies themselves, and not the abstracts, you'll often find that the statistics cited do not match the conclusions!!!

Mike,

I actually think that the triglycerides came down because of the niacin I've been taking. But you are right, that I haven't been eating LC ice cream as much in the last few months.

I wish my doctor would want the artery scan, or LDL particle size tests done. Perhaps I need to find another doctor.

Also, for anyone interested, here is some information on LDL particle size.

This first is a study that showed smaller LDL particle size was associated with higher risk of myocardial infarction (MI).

Here is a web site for a company that does this kind of testing.


Last night I ordered 'The Cholesterol Myth's: Exposing the Fallacy that Saturated Fat and Cholesterol Cause Heart Disease' by Uffe Ravnskov MD, PhD, and 'Know Your Fats : The Complete Primer for Understanding the Nutrition of Fats, Oils and Cholesterol' by Mary G. Enig. I had been wanting to read The Cholesterol Myth for some time, but had not ordered it. Last night I decided it was time.

Cathy,

My cholesterol numbers and history are about identical to yours. I have been doing Atkins for over two years, and have never cheated. I have very high LDL, although my HDL has improved and triglycerides have improved, too. My total is over 300 now!

Although many people believe that a high total number doesn't matter, and that even a high LDL doesn't matter, I am somewhat concerned about it. The evidence seems contradictory to me, and I am no scientist, so it's hard for me to evaluate.

I tried to get the test for LDL particle size, but my doctor has never heard of it, and it's not available here. Our medical community is associated with a big research hospital and medical school, so this was surprising.

Anyway, here's where I'm at right now: my doctors at first recommended statin drugs. I don't want to take them, so we discussed it. Eventually, they decided that, because I don't have heart disease risk factors other than family history and high cholesterol, my decision not to take statins is a reasonable one. They ran a program that inputs the various risk factors and determined that my risk for a heart attack was still very low, even with the high cholesterol. That was good to know.

I don't know if this helps you or not. I am still looking for a better answer!
Beth

Hi Beth,

Thanks, that does help me a lot. I don't have any other risk factors, no family history (except high cholesterol) of cardiovascular disease.

I am a scientist, so I plan on reading as many scientific articles as I can. Not that I always understand them completely myself.

I read Protein Power and Protein Power Lifeplan, and thought the Dr's Eades did a very good job at explaining how cholesterol works in the body, and why we need good fats (including saturated) in our diet. I am hoping though to get more information from different sources, to improve my own understanding.

I was feeling pretty stressed out last night, but I am feeling much better today, after a good nights sleep.

I have both of those books. The Cholesterol myths is a bit of an easier read than Mary Enig's book. I'm currently reading 'Nutrition and Physical Degeneration' by Weston A. Price right now.

And as far as doctors are concerned, why SHOULD they concern themselves with all these cutting-edge CT scans or small particle LDL testing, when the current dogma is already so firmly established and accepted by the general public that all you need is a simple bloodtest and a mathematical formula? Do you honestly think that BIG pharma, who've been completely instrumental in setting up the cholesterol campaign, really have the best interests of the health and well-being of the general public? How about the healthcare insurance industry? Who's interests do THEY serve?

Qmass I have had my blood tested by LabCorp in 2 different states and they both broke down the cholesterol into small LDL and all the rest.

Thanks! Maybe what I need to do is to contact the testing company directly and then coordinate it with my doctor, rather than leaving it up to my doctor to order it for me.

This is the route I'll probably pursue, as well.
Here's a lab that provides full comprehensive testing.
http://www.lab-safe.com/lab-tests/test/136/
It's a bit pricy ($219), but I think is much more informative (includes measured LDL and HDL subfractionation, apolipoprotein (a), LDL particle size, homocystine and C-reactive protein) than regular cholesterol testing.

I don't know about you, but I'm not content with being put on a potentially dangerous drug based merely on the fact that I'm overweight and my total cholesterol profile happens to be over a certain number. To me, the risks greatly overshadow the perceived benefits.