Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Countdowns, Buddies & Challenges
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #256   ^
Old Wed, Jul-22-09, 09:35
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
Posts: 26,917
 
Plan: Muscle Centric
Stats: 238/153/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuleikaa
Great post, Demi!!!
I immediately thought of you when I first read it!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #257   ^
Old Wed, Jul-22-09, 09:38
Wifezilla's Avatar
Wifezilla Wifezilla is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,367
 
Plan: I'm a Barry Girl
Stats: 250/208/190 Female 72
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Colorado
Default

Hummm...wonder is the new Universal Health Care plan will include prescriptions to Canaria...LOL
Reply With Quote
  #258   ^
Old Wed, Jul-22-09, 09:55
amandawald amandawald is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,737
 
Plan: Ray Peat (not low-carb)
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 164cm
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: Brit in Europe
Default

Maybe I'll be able to convince my DH to either have his D levels tested, or just to take this supplement. He had his kneecap smashed in a cycling accident two years ago and has already lost cartilage as a result. He really needs to hang on to what he's got left!!! I think he also did something to his other knee at some point in ancient history, too, at least, I know he has a scar on the other knee as well!

No signs of osteoarthritis yet, but the docs told him it was on the cards.

amanda
Reply With Quote
  #259   ^
Old Thu, Jul-23-09, 03:57
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
Default

VITAMIN D
and cholesterol The importance of the sun DR DAVID GRIMES
Haven't had a chance to read this yet but it looks an interesting site.
Reply With Quote
  #260   ^
Old Fri, Jul-24-09, 02:17
amandawald amandawald is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,737
 
Plan: Ray Peat (not low-carb)
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 164cm
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: Brit in Europe
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutchinson
VITAMIN D
and cholesterol The importance of the sun DR DAVID GRIMES
Haven't had a chance to read this yet but it looks an interesting site.


Just had a squint at it - it does indeed look interesting. I don't see any mention of supplementation anywhere, though.

amanda
Reply With Quote
  #261   ^
Old Sat, Jul-25-09, 06:43
Jayppers's Avatar
Jayppers Jayppers is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 651
 
Plan: Mostly carnivory
Stats: 145/145/145 Male 5'11'' (feet and inches)
BF:
Progress: -20%
Location: Ohio
Lightbulb More MP Debunking Ramblings

One of the claims from Trevor Marshall and the MP camp is that exogenous 25-D from foods and supplements is directly immunosuppressive via it's ability to directly bind to and deactivate the VDR (an integral nuclear receptor involved in cathelicidin (potent human endogenous antimicrobial agent) gene expression). They support this claim with in-silico computer simulations (which are not an accurate representation of what is taking place in-vivo, or even in-vitro for that matter.

In a previous post in the last version of this thread (towards the end) I provided an M.D.'s explanation as to how this claim is incorrect in that there are tight controlling intracellular mechanisms that control conversion & chaperoning of the substrate 25-D and the 1,25OHD active metabolite to the VDR.

Here is a short paper from 2006 that discusses how vitamin D works as a human/mammalian defensin ("Defensin is a generic name reserved for an endogenously synthesized antimicrobial agent") and is integral to the human innate immune system (the branch that targets intracellular pathogens involved in Lyme, Tuberculosis, Chlamydia pneumoniae, mycobacteria, etc.).

Below is an excerpt from the paper that illustrates that in-vitro, limited amounts of the substrate 25-D (which can be obtained exogenously from food and supplements and I believe more indirectly from adequate UV ray exposure) handicap innate immune system components (in this case monocytes & macrophages) from producing the cathelicidin antimicrobial peptide (CAMP) and subsequently killing the mycobacterium tuberculosis.

Quote:
Vitamin D as a defensin

These data predict that a decrement in the extracellular content of 25-D may be a limiting factor for effective mycobacterium tuberculosis killing. To test this hypothesis Liu and colleagues examined human monocyte-macrophage cathelicidin expression and mycobacterial killing in cells incubated with vitamin D (25-D)-deficient serum from sunlight-deprived African Americans and from a group of vitamin D-sufficient Caucasians. The 25-D-insufficient serum was much less capable of supporting cathelicidin gene expression and bacterial killing than was vitamin D-sufficient serum. However, the significantly diminished cathelicidin and antimicrobial effect of vitamin D-deficient serum on macrophage function could be rescued by restoring the extracellular 25-D levels to normal.
If the hypothesis supported by the MP camp is correct, would we not expect to see reduced CAMP gene expression and reduced mycobaterium killing with the D-sufficient serum? Instead we see the exact opposite; That serum with sufficient (or greater) supplies of 25-D substrate enhances the immune cells' ability to create CAMP and destroy the pathogen, and serum with lower or insufficient supply handicaps the immune cells in battling the pathogen. The 25-D is clearly not binding directly to the VDR and deactivating it, as illustrated by the increased expression of CAMP and pathogen killing, which is dependent on the activated 1,25OHD metabolite, not the 25-D substrate.

This seems pretty straight forward if you're framiliar with the details of the science.
Hutchinson / Zule, et al - would you agree with this conclusion of mine?

Last edited by Jayppers : Sat, Jul-25-09 at 09:11.
Reply With Quote
  #262   ^
Old Sat, Jul-25-09, 07:06
Wifezilla's Avatar
Wifezilla Wifezilla is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,367
 
Plan: I'm a Barry Girl
Stats: 250/208/190 Female 72
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Colorado
Default

Makes sense to me.
Reply With Quote
  #263   ^
Old Sat, Jul-25-09, 11:06
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
Default

Re Jayper's and Marshall Protocol. I agree that the regulation of calcidiol/calcitriol is a complex balancing act. There are several mechanism's that we know of (and there may be more that we have not yet discovered) by which the production on calcitriol is up and down regulated. It is far more complicated than a simple on off switch. That is why we have to look at what actually happens in practice and not what we (or Marshall) think may be the case.


Vitamin D Rounds - July, 2009 here is a good round up of this months latest vitamin D research. Nephropal also has a section on Vitamin D and the Evolution of Man and Primates and points to the immunosuppressive action of vitamin D that so concerns Marshall.
"Vitamin D has a suppressive effect on the immune system. Thus, when the immune system is presented with a foreign pathogen, an inflammatory response is activated. However, an over response would not only entail damage to the pathogen but also to the host itself. And as a result, monocytes activate Vitamin D (1,25 OH Vitamin D by 1-alpha hydroxylase) which then causes a "check and balance" on the immune response by suppressing CAMP gene expression. This limits damage to this host while combating a foreign pathogen. It is primate specific and has been perfectly conserved for 55 million years."

I'm sure most of you are bored to tears with me making the point that you need more vitamin D than simply sufficient to meet your daily needs. I believe you need a reserve of D3 to ensure there is always sufficient to power this control/regulation mechanism. You need Vitamin D to upregulate the CAMP genes and similarly you need vitamin D to suppress them.

Last edited by Hutchinson : Sat, Jul-25-09 at 11:25.
Reply With Quote
  #264   ^
Old Sat, Jul-25-09, 19:25
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Finding the Pieces
Posts: 17,049
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/308.0/185 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Maryland, US
Default

Quote:
I'm sure most of you are bored to tears with me making the point that you need more vitamin D than simply sufficient to meet your daily needs. I believe you need a reserve of D3 to ensure there is always sufficient to power this control/regulation mechanism. You need Vitamin D to upregulate the CAMP genes and similarly you need vitamin D to suppress them.


Hutchinson, I agree with you. I think this lack of vitamin D/lack of control is tied to autoimmune diseases...people with these conditions have been shown to have vitamin D deficiency. At the same time. many of these, such as RA can then be cured or alleviated with vitamin D therapy.
Reply With Quote
  #265   ^
Old Mon, Jul-27-09, 00:36
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
Posts: 26,917
 
Plan: Muscle Centric
Stats: 238/153/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: UK
Default

From The Globe and Mail:


Quote:
Health agency to test link between flu, vitamin D

By screening infected blood, researchers hoping to find new ways to fight the virus


Martin Mittelstaedt

From Monday's Globe and Mail
Jul. 26, 2009

In an effort to discover new ways to fight the swine flu, the Public Health Agency of Canada intends to test the blood of people contracting the ailment to check their vitamin D levels.

The agency is taking the unconventional action to try to find out whether those with mild cases of the flu have more of the sunshine vitamin circulating in their bodies than those who develop severe or even deadly reactions to the H1N1 virus.

If researchers determine that the vitamin protects against the swine flu, it will give health authorities another line of attack against the pandemic, besides such common-sense approaches as large-scale vaccinations and hand-washing campaigns.

A finding of a link to the vitamin would mean that people could reduce the odds of being harmed by the new flu bug by simply popping a low-cost supplement that is widely available at almost every drugstore.

Scientists have long been wondering about a possible connection between vitamin D and influenza because of the striking observations in both the northern and southern hemispheres that flu is mostly a wintertime ailment. This is the period each year when sunshine isn't intense enough to allow people to make the vitamin the natural way – in naked skin exposed to ultraviolet light – causing levels of the nutrient to plunge among those not taking supplements.

The public health agency confirmed the vitamin D research in an e-mail to The Globe in response to questions about the testing.

“Epidemiological evidence suggests a role for vitamin D in seasonal influenza,” the agency said, adding that the low amounts of the nutrient in the winter “appear to correlate with the occurrence of seasonal influenza.”

The annual pattern of influenza – bad in winter and rare in summer – is the reason many health experts are worried that the swine flu epidemic, now running at relatively modest infection rates, will go into overdrive starting in the fall.

The federal health agency cautioned that a causal relationship between not having a lot of vitamin D and the risks posed by the flu remains to be proved, but is said the approach may offer promise in reducing the severity of infections.

A number of university and hospital researchers, in conjunction with the agency, started investigating the possible role of vitamin D and the severity of flu symptoms last year, well before the current outbreak began in Mexico this spring.

But the agency said it has adapted this continuing study to the H1N1 outbreak. As part of the research, the investigators will also look at whether a person's genetic makeup has something to do with the intensity of the flu they experience.

Although not much is known about the ability of vitamin D to mitigate the effects of the swine flu, the agency is citing one tantalizing piece of research suggesting the approach is more than a long shot and actually holds promise in combatting the new pandemic.

In the 1940s, researchers experimenting with mice found that those receiving diets low in vitamin D were more susceptible to an experimental swine-flu infection than those that received adequate amounts of the nutrient, according to the e-mail from the agency.

The reason vitamin D might be able to fight the flu isn't known, but the prevailing hypothesis is that the nutrient is able to strengthen the immune system, allowing those infected to better fight off their illness. Vitamin D has been found, for instance, to offer some protection against tuberculosis.

“The evidence is almost overwhelming that vitamin D appears to be making the immune system attack foreign entities better,” said Reinhold Vieth, a professor in the department of nutritional sciences at the University of Toronto.

He said the agency's research on H1N1 severity and vitamin D levels “bodes really well” for figuring out whether the nutrient can be used to help combat the virus.

The agency said that the way the nutrient might protect against the flu “is not fully understood,” but it said new research “suggests that vitamin D induces the production of antimicrobial substances in the body that possess neutralizing activity against a variety of infectious agents, including the influenza virus.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...article1231852/
Reply With Quote
  #266   ^
Old Tue, Jul-28-09, 09:25
Jayppers's Avatar
Jayppers Jayppers is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 651
 
Plan: Mostly carnivory
Stats: 145/145/145 Male 5'11'' (feet and inches)
BF:
Progress: -20%
Location: Ohio
Default

Cool... would love to see the results of that.
Reply With Quote
  #267   ^
Old Tue, Jul-28-09, 09:34
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayppers
Cool... would love to see the results of that.
H1N1 The vitamin d council just in case anyone here hasn't prepared their vitamin d reserves for this circumstance.
Reply With Quote
  #268   ^
Old Tue, Jul-28-09, 11:06
Jayppers's Avatar
Jayppers Jayppers is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 651
 
Plan: Mostly carnivory
Stats: 145/145/145 Male 5'11'' (feet and inches)
BF:
Progress: -20%
Location: Ohio
Default

Thanks, H... Will be sure to place an order tonight. Can never be too prepared!
Reply With Quote
  #269   ^
Old Wed, Jul-29-09, 06:04
Jayppers's Avatar
Jayppers Jayppers is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 651
 
Plan: Mostly carnivory
Stats: 145/145/145 Male 5'11'' (feet and inches)
BF:
Progress: -20%
Location: Ohio
Default

----------- UNDER CONSTRUCTION -------------
Reply With Quote
  #270   ^
Old Wed, Jul-29-09, 10:43
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
Posts: 26,917
 
Plan: Muscle Centric
Stats: 238/153/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: UK
Default

From The Brisbane Times:

Quote:
The D Generation



An array of health problems could be linked to a deficiency in vitamin D, writes Paula Goodyer.

In a country as dazzled by sunlight as Australia, the idea that a GP should check your vitamin D levels seems bizarre. Yet that is what some doctors are now suggesting – that along with routine checks for blood pressure and cholesterol, we have a test for vitamin D deficiency, says Rebecca Mason.

Vitamin D deficiency was once something most younger adults did not have to worry about – at least if they were light-skinned. It was considered mainly a problem of housebound, sick or elderly people with little exposure to sunlight, of women who wear concealing clothes and people with dark skin.

But studies across all ages in different parts of Australia, including sunny Queensland and Perth, have found that some younger adults have mild to moderate deficiencies, especially if they live in cities, says Mason, professor of physiology at the Bosch Institute, University of Sydney.

The cause of what she calls an epidemic of vitamin D insufficiency is a combination of two things. One is that health experts have raised the bar of how much vitamin D is enough. The other is probably changes in the way we live that have reduced our exposure to sunlight, our main source of vitamin D.

We are not only savvier about skin protection, but we also have longer working hours; lunch breaks spent at our desks and long commutes in the confines of cars and buses – all conspiring to keep us from the sun.

Vitamin D, which is really a building block for a hormone, is best known for its link to bone health – without it you cannot absorb enough calcium. But the other reason why vitamin D is a hot topic is the evidence linking the lack of it to a surprisingly mixed bag of health problems. The tally so far: multiple sclerosis, Type 1 diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, muscle weakness, high blood pressure, memory loss – and even weight gain. But the strongest evidence so far is for cancer, Mason says.

"The most consistent evidence links insufficient vitamin D to colon cancer," she says. "There’s evidence for breast, prostate, and ovarian cancer and melanoma too, but it’s limited."

As for how vitamin D might help protect against cancer, some studies have shown it helps slow the proliferation of cancer cells. It may also improve the immune system’s defence against some cancers and may reduce the growth of blood vessels that nourish cancer cells, she says.

More intriguing still is the idea that sunlight, the bringer of skin cancer, might also help prevent the disease, according to preliminary research at the Bosch Institute. The theory is that vitamin D compounds that accumulate in skin when it is exposed to sunlight may help reduce UV damage to the DNA of skin cells, Mason explains.

But for people who already have some forms of cancer, including colon or oesophageal cancer, healthy levels of vitamin D may influence their survival. Some studies show that the more vitamin D, the better the outcome, the professor says.

That is why the NSW Breast Cancer Institute is investigating the vitamin D levels of women newly diagnosed with breast cancer, says Kellie Bilinski, a dietitian and the project leader of the institute’s vitamin D research program.

Where you live, and therefore how much sunlight you get, might also influence your risk of some diseases. Overseas studies suggest that women living furthest from the equator are more at risk of breast cancer, Bilinski says. A study by the Breast Cancer Institute is trying to find out if the latitude where a woman lives in Australia affects her chances of developing the disease.

As for multiple sclerosis, the risk is seven times higher if you live in Tasmania than if you live in tropical areas of Queensland, says Associate Professor Bruce Taylor of Hobart’s Menzies Research Institute. To understand the sunlight-MS connection it helps to know that MS is an auto-immune disease – one where the immune system mistakenly attacks the body’s own tissues. Researchers now believe that having sufficient vitamin D may help prevent MS by making the immune system less trigger-happy.

"This may also mean that vitamin D has a role to play in other auto-immune disease such as Crohns disease, rheumatoid arthritis and Type 1 diabetes," Taylor says.

So how do you get enough vitamin D from sunlight without boosting your risk of skin cancer?

"It’s a fine line between usefulness and damage," says Mason. "There’s some evidence that small amounts of UV damage are relatively easily repaired in most people and that short exposures to UV sunlight are also more efficient at producing vitamin D. So the recommendation for UV exposure is little and often. It’s certainly not frying your skin, which is very damaging and not particularly useful for making vitamin D either. Vitamin D compounds in skin can actually be destroyed by too much UV exposure."

The time of day spent in the sun matters too, she adds, recalling a couple who were regular walkers, but walked separately at different times of the day, and had different vitamin D levels as a result. The woman walked about midday in winter and her levels were healthy. The man walked in the early morning and evening and was mildly deficient.

In winter, the advice for those in NSW and Victoria is to expose 15 per cent of your body surface – meaning either hands, face and arms, or legs for about 15 minutes as close to noon as possible, and minus sunscreen. In summer, it is to expose the same areas for six to eight minutes either just before 11am or just after 3pm, again without sunscreen because sunscreen reduces vitamin D production.

"This exposure isn’t enough to cause redness in summer, but it’s enough to cause DNA damage from UV radiation and raise the risk of skin cancer, so it’s a trade-off," Mason says.

‘‘But this is only the recommendation for light-skinned people - melanin, the pigment that makes skin dark, makes it harder to produce vitamin D, so dark-skinned people need three to six times more exposure, depending on how dark your skin is."

But if vitamin D looks so promising, why don’t health authorities recommend we all take a supplement and then see if levels of colon cancer and MS drop? Because we still need more answers about the long-term safety of taking vitamin D supplements, says Taylor. But it is worth getting a test to check your level, especially if there is a family history of MS, he adds.

"If the levels are inadequate, your GP can recommend the right supplement. GPs, especially in Tasmania, are becoming better informed about vitamin D and are measuring patients’ levels more often," Mason says.

Weight gain may also be linked to vitamin D. Results of a small study at the University of Minnesota reported in June that adding vitamin D to a kilojoule-controlled diet increased weight loss in people, most of whom had low levels of the vitamin. But the researchers stressed that more research was needed to be sure that vitamin D had any role in weight loss.

Earlier research, including a large study from the Harvard School of Public Health, suggests that obesity boosts the risk of being low in vitamin D – which may be partly due to being less active outdoors, says Mason.

It could be that fat tissue acts as a ‘‘sink’’ for vitamin D which is only released when a person loses weight, according to other studies from Boston University School of Medicine.

This, Mason adds, could have given our hunter gatherer ancestors an advantage. "Food, like sunshine, was plentiful in summer, so people put on weight and some of the vitamin D they made would have been stored in that fat,’’ she says.

‘‘In winter, food was less plentiful, so they would have lost weight, releasing fuel for energy – along with vitamin D at a time of the year when there was less sunshine. But these days, losing fat, and releasing stored vitamin D, is a difficult process."

Source: The Sydney Morning Herald

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nat...1mg.html?page=1
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 13:37.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.