Hello -

I'm throwing this out there just in case anyone has any answers for me.

I've been low-carbing for nearly 4 years straight now - no breaks. At first I lost a bit of weight - not much but a bit. I eat high fat because it's the only sustainable way for me to low-carb.

I started off at 65 kilos, then went down, up down - then down to 60 kilos where I stayed for awhile. Then I gradually started gaining - up to 65 - my start weight, for awhile, then over the past year I have gone up to 67, 68. None of my clothes fit me - it is definitely fat I am gaining and I am getting very depressed.

I eat around 30g of carb from vegetables, sometimes much less. I eat high fat dairy but have been trying to quit it although it's near to impossible as I get hungry and tired without it. Protein is kept moderate.

I did do a year stint of close to zero carbs and gained back to 65 kilos. Anything I try now seems to result in a gain or no loss.

Any advice anyone? Anybody have the same thing happen? I feel as if I am completely resistant to weight loss now - much more than when I started. I feel as if I've made the wrong decision with going low-carb as this shouldn't be happening to me. I avoid processed foods and gave up all AS a long time ago - which didn't do squat.

Eat a half a pound of fatty meat, three times a day. Add in a piece of fruit, or a potato. Fatty meat = bacon, 80/20 ground chuck, 70/30 hamburger. All the tea or coffee you want. Plus one alcoholic beverage per day. A low carb serving of a vegetable such as spinach.
This is the Pennington diet in Good Calories, Bad Calories by Taubes. If after a month, you do not lose weight, give up the drink. Then, the piece of fruit. Then, cut the meat to .3 lbs per meal. If you still do not lose weight, maybe you cannot. According to Pennington, some people had to go very low carb to lose weight on .5 lbs per meal, maybe you do to. The dairy may have too many carbs for you. You should not be hungry on a half pound of fatty meat per meal.

Good luck!

I experienced exactly what you are describing Loops. I was going to suggest that you may be experiencing perimenopause but I guess you are not. What I ended up doing after 2 years worth of tweaks was include intermittent fasting to my diet. The way I do it is I do not eat until after 2:00 PM. IAfter 2:00 PM I eat a max of 2 meals. My fast breaking meal is usually quite big with ample fat and protein. I sometimes have 1 or 2 servings of lc fruit and/or vegetables. But, that is an option. My vegetables are nutrient dense such as jacino kale, collard greens, brocolli pumpkin,bell peppers etc. I have increased my fats including saturated fats.All of the 30 lbs that I had lost and regained, has once again been lost. I do not consider myself as eating too much food but eating too often. By reducing my LC meal frequencies I have inabled myself to lose again.

I did not suddenly begin doing this. I had to work myself up to the 20 hour fast. Difficult at first but it is now natural.

After a stall of 3 solid years, in the last 30 days I've lost all the 14 lbs I gained when I threw my hands up in disgust and frustration and took a break, and I've lost 4 lbs off the weight I stalled at. I'm hoping it will keep going well. 30 days isn't long enough to say, but at least I'm encouraged.

Loops, this isn't a popular answer around here, but I'm having the first results in *3 years* by upping my carbs to around 100 (gluten free, soy free, dairy free) and watching calories.

When I was vlc, I needed a *lot* of fat to keep from being hungry and I never did feel all that satisfied. Now my blood sugars are tremendously more stable and I'm generally not having trouble keeping my calories controlled.

So that's my suggestion. Try higher, but still very controlled carbs and figure out what your daily protein should be (I use the Eades' guidelines) and then let your fat do what it will. Artichokes, sweet potatos, cassava, spaghetti squash, plantains, and stone fruits (like peaches and plums) are all nutritious controlled ways to up your carbs without going all out.

I don't think its that low carb isn't the answer, I just think for a group of us low carb isn't the *whole* answer. Keeping insulin low and controlled, giving up grains, that's very important. I think that some of us just need to expand our definition of 'low'.

Lots of literature out there sends a constant message -- LC'ers, you're going to die, you can't do that constantly and lose weight. But lots of us have lost and are losing. Loops, you might want to post typical daily menus and let the folks who have been doing this a while look to see what might be causing the stall/backward momentum. I know I've been guilty of "carb creep" during my LC journey -- when I realize what I'm doing, I go back to induction and re-focus.

I'm sure many of our veterans have other ideas, too.

Think it might be possible you have become allergic to dairy. This kind of sounds like a food allergy symptom to me. Our bodies often make us crave and if we aren't careful eat what we are allergic to.

Try going dairy free for a while (and yes as you are stating here that will be hard the first several days but you can do it).

Have you made any changes like in exercise, not exercising etc...? Have you introduced foods that you didn't eat while you were loosing and early in maintenance? Is there anything else you could be allergic to? Do you have yeast overgrowth that maybe you didn't have before????

I would start with dairy and then consider other things from there.

It also happened to me. I spent over 7 years low carbing, lost 20 kilos and put 15 back again. I now follow a food combining plan similar to Hays or Montiacs and I've lost 9 kilos again.

I'm really happy for you Bats. This actually ties in a bit with the recent blog post by Matt Stone that I mentioned yesterday over in the War Zone, where he claims that too long on too low carbs stresses the adrenals and thus further lowers the metabolism, among his comments: "Adrenal fatigue is certainly a danger for low-carbers who have weak adrenals to begin with. Because low carb diets stimulate the adrenals more, adrenal-related things like allergies and asthma often disappear in short order while energy skyrockets. Then, when the adrenals start to wear out, you have the opposite experience. "

And he then seems to say that he tries not to go below 100g in carbs per day. I'm not totally in that mindset yet. Maybe I have not been stalled long enough. But it certainly is "food for thought" - and perhaps, if what he says has any merit, the extra carbs are allowing your adrenals to function better and thus your metabolism too.

I admire both of you, Bats AND Loops, for sticking with this program even through such a long stall. The first time I went on low carb, back in the 1997-2001 time frame, I hit a 2 1/2 year stall even though I still had over 100 pounds to lose, and after 2 1/2 years I just gave up and fell face-down into the carbs again - with the expected consequences. <sigh>

Oh thanks you guys are great -

lots of ideas for me to think about. The dairy thing has been a never-ending battle to be honest and near impossible for me to ditch for even a week. I'm not totally convinced it's simply a sensitivity though because if I manage to get pork fat crispies I don't crave it - which makes me think it's just the fat I crave.

So basically here are the ideas as I see them:

Possible dairy sensitivity
Carbs too low
Protein too high
Carbs too high
Calories too high

Well the one thing I am totally not prepared to do is drop the calories. I don't stuff myself but I'm not willing to go hungry either - tis not a long-term solution for me.

Anyway once more many thanks - other people's experiences are very valuable.

If you think you're craving fat, ditch the dairy and add fat!

Merpig -

the only reason I stick to this is because I love the food - lots of dairy!!! Which says it all I think. I do eat other things. I suppose I never thought it would be the dairy because I lost down to 60 kilos eating lots of it - but maybe things have changed.

Things just haven't been the same since I tried to go zero carb so maybe there is something to what Matt is saying. However having recovered from bulimia (purge free for the entire 4 years low-carbing) I am a little wary of pushing carbs very high at all.

I am sure regarding the dairy I come up with a lot of excuses - some of them are valid. For instance I like most of my fats to be animal fats but am not fond of tallow or lard much unless I render it myself - which requires preparation and clearing up - butter is just THERE to use. Maybe butter wouldn't be a problem though?

I tend to panic when my carbs get too high - somehow it doesn't feel right. But maybe that is my 'control my body' mindset that comes back. It's something I have to work on.

Up carbs quit dairy apart from butter -

how does that sound??? I think I could cope with more vegetables. If you give up dairy do you have to give up butter too??

Maybe I should start my own challenge thread for this though to get some specific support.

Loops, do you exercise? If so, did you start your exercise program after you lost weight (and then started gaining)? I'm not suggesting that your weight is muscle - there are a lot of people on this forum that have reported gaining weight (fat) while exercising on LC. In my experience, when I do any significant exercise on induction level carbs, I don't gain, but I also don't lose. If you are exercising (and even if you aren't), why not try upping your carbs a bit and see if that loosens things up?

Been exercising the whole time. Tennis, swimming, weight lifting. Got injured though whilst VLCing - too much really - muscles not long enough to recover on no carbs. Then I did weight-lifting and swimming.

I definitely think it's fat I have gained. Looking at photos of myself I look fatter in the face and arms and - well pretty much everywhere.

I'm betting myself it's just the dairy but that is a tough one because this WOE needs to be enjoyable for me to stay with it.

But it is true I have been scared of raising carbs as well - maybe that is not doing me any favours either. I really need to do a leap of faith kinda thing here.