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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Apr-20-05, 06:30
arkitech arkitech is offline
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Plan: Atkins
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Default high reps vs low reps - Which is best for weight loss?

I do the majority of my weight training at home, but unfortunately I don't have a lot of heavy dumbells. I prefer dumbells over barbells because I can better target specific muscle areas. But lately I've been wondering if I need to really lift heavy in order to lose the weight or can I lose if I do extremely high reps using moderate size weights.

Any suggestions would be appreciated
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Apr-20-05, 19:03
kbfunTH's Avatar
kbfunTH kbfunTH is offline
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Posts: 1,240
 
Plan: UDS
Stats: 199/190/190 Male 69
BF:12%/11%/6%
Progress: 100%
Location: Pflugerville, TX
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Neither one necessarily, however, if done in specific ways, they both could work quite well for weight loss.

Dr. Len Schwartz's 'Heavyhands' is based around cardio type training with hand held weights.

Pavel Tsatsouline has popularized high rep kettlebell training here in the US. It can be done with light kettlebells and/or very heavy ones.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Apr-20-05, 20:28
diemde's Avatar
diemde diemde is offline
Posts: 7,547
 
Plan: lower carb
Stats: 333/199.8/172 Female 5'8"
BF:??/39.0/25
Progress: 83%
Location: Central Ohio
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It seems like I struggle with this question on a daily basis. At the moment, I'm trying to gain muscle, which for women, is pretty hard, so I'm trying to lift heavy. Ask me again in a few weeks.

In all seriousness, I think this comes down to personal choice. If you already feel strong (and those of us who have carried extra weight around for years are strong), then you might want to focus on just maintaining your current muscle mass and go with the higher reps for now.

Arnold S. in his Enc. of Body Building recommends higher reps lower weights for endomorphs, along with extra cardio. HTH!
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Apr-22-05, 00:07
lilli's Avatar
lilli lilli is offline
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Plan: My own, post Atkins
Stats: 180/131/140 Female 5'5
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Location: los angeles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diemde
In all seriousness, I think this comes down to personal choice. If you already feel strong (and those of us who have carried extra weight around for years are strong), then you might want to focus on just maintaining your current muscle mass and go with the higher reps for now.


Mmmm...my personal choice would be to lift a 10 pound dumbell in bed while watching buffy and eating carrot cake. But that's just not gonna work, ever.
And actually, to maintain muscle, you usually have to challenge your body to hold onto it...
When using resistance exercise to lose the fat, it goes down like this:
What the first poster said about lighter weights was correct. If you want to use light weights and more reps, the only (most effective!!!!) way to make it work for you is to make up a routine that is, basically, weight based cardio. Lots of reps with little rest periods. I did this type of workout last night, so i'll use that workout as an example:
-15 sets of:
-clean and jerks, 26 pound dumbell, 3 reps on each side, followed directly by:
-low (ass to ground) squats, holding 55 pound kettlebell to my chest, 5 reps.
Then, a 20-30 second rest.
Those weights are light for me. By the end of the workout, i was sweating and had gotten a great cardio workout, and used my muscles to a good extent. The possibilities of putting together a workout of that type are great. You can have a lot of fun with it, it won't take a lot of time, and you sure as hell will lose weight.
That being said,
You will NOT build a lot of muscle or become very strong by lifting light weights. You just won't. It isn't the way our bodies work. If you want to become strong and build muscle, you have to either buy some heavy weights (and learn to love the bar and squat rack,) or join a gym that has a good weight set-up. The benefits of lifting heavier and building muscle are long term and greater than what you could ever get with light weight.
But if light weights are all you got, don't worry. you will lose weight if you put together the proper workouts!
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Apr-22-05, 00:11
lilli's Avatar
lilli lilli is offline
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Plan: My own, post Atkins
Stats: 180/131/140 Female 5'5
BF:
Progress: 123%
Location: los angeles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diemde

Arnold S. in his Enc. of Body Building recommends higher reps lower weights for endomorphs, along with extra cardio. HTH!

Wow. Now I know for certain not to trust him as my governor!
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Apr-22-05, 00:33
Primate's Avatar
Primate Primate is offline
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Posts: 69
 
Plan: e-diets Atkins
Stats: 289/273/200 Male 6' 5"
BF:
Progress: 18%
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Default

High reps low weight = toning
Low reps high weight = building

Weight training on its own or any exercise for that matter will cause muscle growth and fat loss.

Exercise for weight loss?
Well cardio combined with a good diet will do the trick but weight training is essential for everyone that is physically capable of it. The reason is you loose muscle as you age and weight training will help to counteract that. But, weight training will not promote weight loss necessarily . If you train hard you might even see weight gain because you are gaining muscle. If this is the case you will need to look at inches lost and not pounds lost.

So if you follow the rule of High reps low weight = toning
Low reps high weight = building that should help you with your decision. Either way don’t start right in with high weight if you do you may risk injury. Start low and work your way up. It will take more time but it is better than tearing or seperating a muscle ouuuuuch. It is best to talk to your doc to find out what he or she thinks would be of best benefit to you. Taking advice from a board can be scary when it comes to this type of question. To much weight or exercising, if you body is not in condition to handle it, can cause serious injury. I could say I am an MD and a personal trainer but it wouldn’t be true and the same could apply to anyone posting.

Happy training and good luck. I am getting back into it after 7 years and am stoked!
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Apr-22-05, 01:03
mlk18's Avatar
mlk18 mlk18 is offline
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Posts: 1,313
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 193/143/135 Female 65"
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Progress: 86%
Location: East Coast
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High reps plus low weight = fast twitch muscle fiber or endurance gains

Low reps plus heavy weight = slow twitch muscle or strength gains

Moderate reps with heavy weight = muscle hypertophy or muscle mass

From my 18 years of experience, and the advice of my strength coach, you are better off lifting for mass if you want to burn off body fat. Muscle mass burns calories, increases your BMR and boosts metabolism. This will do more to burn excess body fat then "circuit" training or high reps will. Toning is a word created in the old days by Jack LaLane to get women into his gyms. Toning really just means innefective muscle gains.

I do 2 exercise per body part, 3 sets of 8-10 reps to positive failure. And it has been working quite well for me. Here's a website with a lot of very good information oin weight training. http://www.exrx.net/Exercise.html
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Apr-22-05, 01:27
Primate's Avatar
Primate Primate is offline
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Posts: 69
 
Plan: e-diets Atkins
Stats: 289/273/200 Male 6' 5"
BF:
Progress: 18%
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlk18
Toning is a word created in the old days by Jack LaLane to get women into his gyms. Toning really just means innefective muscle gains.


I couldn't agree with you less. Well some points I can buy but Tone or to tone or toning :

v. toned, ton·ing, tones
v. tr.
To give a particular tone or inflection to.
To soften or change the color of (a painting or photographic negative, for example).
To sound monotonously; intone.
To make firmer or stronger. Often used with up: exercises that tone up the body.

Low weights do just that. Low weights high reps also increases endurance so I agree with you there. As far as low weights high reps and muscle growth are concerned well read this http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/luis25.htm. Circuit training ,or whole body training or some call it, does infact have weight loss properties. It isn’t because of the weight only but because you put your body into a more “Cardio” state . You are maintaining a high heart rate and are in an aerobic state and in constant motion . You want intense workout doing high reps or to failure. I consider high reps 12 or more low reps 3 to 8. So high rep workouts to burn fat well you can read this http://www.topendsports.com/fitness...oss-lifting.htm So the key is a high number or sets vs just high reps. I will make it clear I am not saying high reps as in grab a 10lb dumbell and do 200 reps I am saying do several sets of around 12 reps to "tone". Do 3 sets with 1 warm up set of 8 reps. Consult with your doc and a trainer and get whats right for the results you want is going to be my recommendation.

This is just my .02 but what do I know mlk18 has "18 years of experience"...

Last edited by Primate : Fri, Apr-22-05 at 02:00.
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Apr-22-05, 09:40
diemde's Avatar
diemde diemde is offline
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Plan: lower carb
Stats: 333/199.8/172 Female 5'8"
BF:??/39.0/25
Progress: 83%
Location: Central Ohio
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Well, Arkitech, as you can see there are many views of what really works here. One other thing I wanted to mention is that I really try to pay attention to what is working and what isn't. The best way to do that is track what you are doing and then every 6 weeks or so evaluate its effectiveness. The fact that you posted the question makes me think you are probably ready to change your workout. Try something different and see how it goes. Good luck!
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Apr-22-05, 10:40
kbfunTH's Avatar
kbfunTH kbfunTH is offline
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Posts: 1,240
 
Plan: UDS
Stats: 199/190/190 Male 69
BF:12%/11%/6%
Progress: 100%
Location: Pflugerville, TX
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkitech
I do the majority of my weight training at home, but unfortunately I don't have a lot of heavy dumbells. I prefer dumbells over barbells because I can better target specific muscle areas. But lately I've been wondering if I need to really lift heavy in order to lose the weight or can I lose if I do extremely high reps using moderate size weights.

Any suggestions would be appreciated


If losing bodyweight is your primary goal, then you need not look any further than combining the right calorie intake with an activity that burns some serious calories.

Figure up your RMR, multiply that by 1.5 and end the day somewhere in the middle. For a serious calorie burn workout, do some dumbbell/kettlebell swings and use active rest between sets. Pick a rep and set range that fits your level of conditioning and go for around 10-15 minutes to start. Adjust these variables as you can. To make the swing more difficult, use two hands instead of one. A little creativity from here will go a long way for you.

One additional benefit to swings is that you will gain some functional strength throughout your entire body. For a little additional core conditioning, add in some windmills.
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Apr-22-05, 12:30
lilli's Avatar
lilli lilli is offline
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Posts: 1,079
 
Plan: My own, post Atkins
Stats: 180/131/140 Female 5'5
BF:
Progress: 123%
Location: los angeles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbfunTH
For a serious calorie burn workout, do some dumbbell/kettlebell swings and use active rest between sets. Pick a rep and set range that fits your level of conditioning and go for around 10-15 minutes to start. Adjust these variables as you can. To make the swing more difficult, use two hands instead of one. A little creativity from here will go a long way for you.

One additional benefit to swings is that you will gain some functional strength throughout your entire body. For a little additional core conditioning, add in some windmills.

I SO agree with you. It's the perfect calorie burning/strengthening workout for a beginner. So easy and effective. I have an overweight friend doing that workout with either an 18 pound or a 32; She could NEVER move that much weight doing traditional lifts- k.bells are versatile and for everyone. I loooove my kettlebells. Windmills are great too, they make my core sore for days (a feeling which i love.) you can do them with dumbells.
p.s.- aren't you other experienced lifters irked by the word "toning" used in conjunction with light weights? It annoys me so much!!!! I mean, I'm what could be called "toned" (meaning i don't have huge muscles, yet do have definition,) yet it has taken me a couple years to get this look, and at this point my squat is torturously heavy. Toning= arghhhh & weak.
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Apr-22-05, 12:58
kbfunTH's Avatar
kbfunTH kbfunTH is offline
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Posts: 1,240
 
Plan: UDS
Stats: 199/190/190 Male 69
BF:12%/11%/6%
Progress: 100%
Location: Pflugerville, TX
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I used to be irked by that word, but a few years ago, I learned what true muscle tone was and have since renewed my liking of the word. Muscle density is what everyone should be striving for (along with minimal bodyfat levels of course).

Last edited by kbfunTH : Fri, Apr-22-05 at 14:49.
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  #13   ^
Old Fri, Apr-22-05, 14:02
Bigdaddy99's Avatar
Bigdaddy99 Bigdaddy99 is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 290/225/220 Male 6'1"
BF:
Progress: 93%
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Before you start any exercise program, its necessary to define what your goals are. Do you want to build muscle, build strength (you would think they are the same but they are actually quite different), build lean muscle or just tone?

Also, based on your decision, you may find that your home gym is inadequate as far as equipment goes.
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  #14   ^
Old Fri, Apr-22-05, 17:25
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
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Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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Low-weight/ high-reps builds muscle endurance. The best way to do this is called aerobic exercise. Use no weights and exercise for long periods. Running and cycling are good for this.

High-weight/ low-reps builds muscle. If you can do more than 10 reps, increase the weight.

If you want to 'tone' your muscles, you must build them with heavy weights. Then when the fat decreases, the muscles can been seen.
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  #15   ^
Old Mon, Apr-25-05, 16:15
mlk18's Avatar
mlk18 mlk18 is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 193/143/135 Female 65"
BF:
Progress: 86%
Location: East Coast
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Hey Primate, I think you are confusing muscling toning with the sound of your pager going off. Tone can be a sound and also be a color, but neither one of them is going to build muscle any more than an innefective workout is going to. But you failed to realize the point; toning as it is used in the average american dialogue is a misnomer. And it is also a myth:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/goulet5.htm
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/berardi12.htm
http://exercise.about.com/cs/weightloss/a/toning.htm
http://www.rustyiron.net/myths.htm
http://www.stretcher.com/stories/00/000807m.cfm
http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Myths.html

So I guess you disagree with almost all exercise physiologists too. I found about 50-100 more serious weight training websites that support my opinion, but I got tired of cutting and pasting already. And I have only been on the internet for 9 years. Go figure.

Last edited by mlk18 : Mon, Apr-25-05 at 16:20.
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