I also see the inclusion of shakes and bars in their suggested meal plans as an implicit suggestion that to do Atkins properly you need to use them.

So many people either do not have the time or inclination to read through the whole book before starting and are likely to turn to the menus as a quick start plan and are therefore prone to think that Atkins products are an inherent part of the way of eating!

A good update to add to this thread. Jimmy Moore is posting Livin LaVida Classic podcasts since Apple only keeps 300 in iTunes. He has rebroadcast his first interview with Dr. Westman in 2007, and a long interview from 2010 when NANY was published. Many answers here from the author himself on the fact there was no influence from AN company on what was written, how certain recommendations about foundation vegetables came about, the whole net carb discussion, the optional bars, his and Dr. Phinney's clinical studies, the fact the authors take no royalties, the science behind saturated fats in the diets, etc, etc. Jimmy had lots of good questions from his long time LC/ Atkins listeners who were suspicious of the "New Atkins" so it is a good podcast to put with this discussion.

http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/...c-westman/22286

I just thought I'd chime in here. I don't lose well doing net carbs. Actually, I hardly lose at all. What I notice the most when I stick to 20 or less total carbs is the inches melting off very quickly. When I'm overweight, I have the classic "apple" shape. Most of it goes to my middle. An example of how fast my stomach deflates when I strictly count total carbs: 2 weeks ago I got serious again. Within 6 days a pair of jeans I couldn't wear because they were so tight on my waist I couldn't sit down in them (and breathe at the same time) were perfectly comfortable. I will also say that the scale does NOT reflect the changes in my body. I look like I've lost 10 pounds in the last week. In reality, it was less than half that. I only get those quickly melting inches when I count total carbs.

I do very much limit my veggies which is hard for me because I'm the kind of person who can sit down and eat two pounds of veggies for dinner. I love them. But, excess vegetables really slow down my weight loss so I have to limit them. I have a salad almost every day for lunch, but the salad is mostly lettuce and cucumbers, with the occasional few extras.