Actually not an unreasonable discussion so far overall. But they keep goring my personal oxen. Next up is talking about how weight loss is due to lower insulin, not ketones. Maybe so--I maintained a 20 pound weight loss for something over 10 years, often dipping down another ten pounds and then bouncing back up to that initial 20 pound loss. Since going more ketogenic, I'm down another ten pounds, that's lasted several years, long enough to say okay, this is a real thing. It could be the insulin or something else--but if by the time my insulin is low enough to sustain this further weight loss, I'm in a much higher state of ketosis--I might not need to be ketotic, but the diet that brings my insulin sufficiently low makes me more ketotic, so I'd need to be in ketosis but not for the ketones, by that logic. Which I'm fine with as a theory, but unless I go hog-wild on some exogenous ketone experiment, I don't think you can rule out the ketones as a factor in somebody like me.