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Dana
Thu, Apr-17-03, 16:59
This is for a discussion started on the effects of the Atkins
Diet. I found this on the Welcome page of AOL and thought
someone might find it interesting...
http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/Article/58/66544.h-
tm?pagenumber=2
An excerpt:
>"I understand why people would want to slam Atkins. I have
>very big problems with diets that eliminate whole groups of
>food, as his does," Lindeman tells WebMD. "But Atkins made us
>think more about the role of insulin in weight reduction. The
>question is whether his diet is doing any harm. And recent
>studies show it significantly lowers cholesterol and
>triglycerides."
Dana
Evelyn Ruu
Thu, Apr-17-03, 16:59
"Dana" <AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote in message
news:if3u9v89ar45e19d9j9nc8lu46qh8b5uii@4ax.com...
> This is for a discussion started on the effects of the
> Atkins Diet. I found this on the Welcome page of AOL and
> thought someone might find it interesting...
>
>
http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/Article/58/66544.h-
tm?pagenumber=2
>
>
> An excerpt:
>
> >"I understand why people would want to slam Atkins. I have
> >very big
problems with diets that eliminate whole groups of food, as
his does," Lindeman tells WebMD. "But Atkins made us think
more about the role of insulin in weight reduction. The
question is whether his diet is doing any harm. And recent
studies show it significantly lowers cholesterol and
triglycerides."
>
> Dana
Dana,
I see people who have never been able to lose weight and they
are losing with Atkins. The biggest fight for many of us is
hunger. I could eat a huge meal and be starving in an hour.
With Atkins I feel satisfied longer, and my hunger seems to
be less intense, less gnawing. My doctor put me on a modified
Atkins the minute he gave me a diagnosis. So far it is
helping me a lot.
Many other health problems seem to have lessened since I am
eating this way, and my blood glucose is in the normal range,
not diabetic range. It is working for me, and working well. My
belief is that if someone can get the same results while
eating higher levels of carbohydrates than I do (I try and
stay under 60 grams a day but my Dr. says I should stay under
100) then they should do whatever works for them.
When I eat more carbs I get more hungry and my numbers go up.
To me it is simple. Carbs in, numbers go up. So my choice is
clear. I am losing weight but slowly.... just enough to keep
me encouraged. So Atkins has been my choice.
Regards, Evelyn
Jennifer
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
It's interesting that she says that his diet "eliminates whole
groups of food", when it doesn't.
Carbohydrates are lowered, but not at all eliminated.
In the on going weight loss and maintenance areas you find
many complex carbs.
Jennifer
Dana wrote:
> This is for a discussion started on the effects of the
> Atkins Diet. I found this on the Welcome page of AOL and
> thought someone might find it interesting...
>
> http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/Article/58/66544-
> .htm?pagenumber=2
>
>
> An excerpt:
>
>
>>"I understand why people would want to slam Atkins. I have
>>very big problems with diets that eliminate whole groups of
>>food, as his does," Lindeman tells WebMD. "But Atkins made
>>us think more about the role of insulin in weight reduction.
>>The question is whether his diet is doing any harm. And
>>recent studies show it significantly lowers cholesterol and
>>triglycerides."
>
>
> Dana
Ozgirl
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
"Dana" <AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote in message
news:if3u9v89ar45e19d9j9nc8lu46qh8b5uii@4ax.com...
> This is for a discussion started on the effects of the
> Atkins Diet.
I
> found this on the Welcome page of AOL and thought someone
> might find it interesting...
>
>
http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/Article/58/66544.h-
tm?pagenu mber=2
>
>
> An excerpt:
>
> >"I understand why people would want to slam Atkins. I have
> >very big
problems with diets that eliminate whole groups of food, as
his does," Lindeman tells WebMD. "But Atkins made us think
more about the role of insulin in weight reduction. The
question is whether his diet is doing any harm. And recent
studies show it significantly lowers cholesterol and
triglycerides."
I would definitely disagree about whole food groups being
eliminated. Some items in some groups are reduced or an
alternate food used. The thing about food groups anyway is
that each group provides a certain nutrient that our body
needs, it is possible to get all our nutrients from foods
without the use of supplements and still not eat more carbs
than our individual bodies are able to handle.
My diet is for blood sugar control first and foremost, the
fact that I can also gear it for weight loss and still not
miss any nutrients is a bonus. Most diabetics are handed a
diet sheet similar to the ADA diet and most end up finding
that they simply cannot control their blood sugars while
following those diets to the letter. I have been researching
foods, their nutrients and their effects on blood sugar for 25
years and I can categorically state that I can happily devise
my own personal diet and not miss out on anything vital to my
good health. With help from people like Quentin Grady who also
researches, but on a different level to myself, I can tweak my
diet from time to time to receive maximum benefit for diabetic
control and vascular health.
Dana
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:52:11 GMT, "Evelyn Ruut"
<mama-lionsox@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
>When I eat more carbs I get more hungry and my numbers go up.
>To me it is simple. Carbs in, numbers go up. So my choice is
>clear. I am losing weight but slowly.... just enough to keep
>me encouraged. So Atkins has been my choice.
>
>Regards, Evelyn
It's amazing, isn't it? You know, I have heard about Atkins
for years and its always bad stuff, now 30 something years
into it the medical community is just now saying that maybe
his diet is not that bad.
I think whatever works for you is what you should do. I'd go
on the ping pong ball diet if it worked for me. <G>
Dana
Dana
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:23:19 -0700, Jennifer
<jenniferNOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote:
>It's interesting that she says that his diet "eliminates
>whole groups of food", when it doesn't.
Well, I don't think you can have dairy products at all, right?
Doesn't he say no milk, butter, etc?
>
>Carbohydrates are lowered, but not at all eliminated.
>
>In the on going weight loss and maintenance areas you find
>many complex carbs.
It's been awhile since I read his book and I don't follow his
diet either.
Dana
Dana
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:03:00 +1000, "Ozgirl"
<someone@nothere.com> wrote:
>My diet is for blood sugar control first and foremost, the
>fact that I can also gear it for weight loss and still not
>miss any nutrients is a bonus. Most diabetics are handed a
>diet sheet similar to the ADA diet and most end up finding
>that they simply cannot control their blood sugars while
>following those diets to the letter. I have been researching
>foods, their nutrients and their effects on blood sugar for
>25 years and I can categorically state that I can happily
>devise my own personal diet and not miss out on anything
>vital to my good health. With help from people like Quentin
>Grady who also researches, but on a different level to
>myself, I can tweak my diet from time to time to receive
>maximum benefit for diabetic control and vascular health.
That's great!! I wish I had started looking into meal plans
when I was first diagnosed. :)
Dana
Julie Bove
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
"Dana" <AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote in message
news:ttmu9vov8j988au4ha1ejo86caces5hura@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:23:19 -0700, Jennifer
> <jenniferNOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >It's interesting that she says that his diet "eliminates
> >whole groups of food", when it doesn't.
>
> Well, I don't think you can have dairy products at all,
> right? Doesn't he say no milk, butter, etc?
No, he doesn't say that. I can't remember about milk, but you
are in fact SUPPOSED to eat butter! I found this odd because
the types of foods I would normally eat butter on are not
allowed. Cheese is allowed too, but he cautions you not to eat
too much of it if you have high cholesterol.
--
Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
Damsel In
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:59:45 -0400, Dana
<AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote:
>Well, I don't think you can have dairy products at all,
>right? Doesn't he say no milk, butter, etc?
You can have butter and cheese, yogurt, sour cream, and
heavy cream. No
milk.
Carol
--
Type 2, dx May 15,1995 Glucophage XR Low Carb Eating Plan
Stretching Exercises and Walking
Sushi-Boy
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
Dana: I think if someone cant control the ADA diet with
willpower or for what ever reason they have to settle for
just controlling their sugar. to me there is 2 goals every
doctor sets for a diabetic if that diabetic can not maintain
a healthy weight give them a diet that will atleast control
the sugar.
--
"Sushi-Boy" Diabetes to some it is a curse for me its a CURE.
www.diabetes.org/main/application/commercewf?origin=*.jsp&eve-
nt=link(B)
"Dana" <AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote in message
news:gofu9vsvs67o3con2i98bq5dts5591i67v@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:52:11 GMT, "Evelyn Ruut"
> <mama-lionsox@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >When I eat more carbs I get more hungry and my numbers go
> >up. To me it is simple. Carbs in, numbers go up. So my
> >choice is clear. I am losing weight but slowly.... just
> >enough to keep me encouraged. So Atkins has been my choice.
> >
> >Regards, Evelyn
> It's amazing, isn't it? You know, I have heard about Atkins
> for years and its always bad stuff, now 30 something years
> into it the medical community is just now saying that maybe
> his diet is not that bad.
>
> I think whatever works for you is what you should do. I'd go
> on the ping pong ball diet if it worked for me. <G>
>
> Dana
Jennifer
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
No, butter, milk, cheese etc. are all fine on his plan.
Jennifer
Dana wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:23:19 -0700, Jennifer
> <jenniferNOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>It's interesting that she says that his diet "eliminates
>>whole groups of food", when it doesn't.
>
>
> Well, I don't think you can have dairy products at all,
> right? Doesn't he say no milk, butter, etc?
>
>
>>Carbohydrates are lowered, but not at all eliminated.
>>
>>In the on going weight loss and maintenance areas you find
>>many complex carbs.
>
>
> It's been awhile since I read his book and I don't follow
> his diet either.
>
> Dana
Ozgirl
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
"Dana" <AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote in message
news:ttmu9vov8j988au4ha1ejo86caces5hura@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:23:19 -0700, Jennifer
> <jenniferNOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >It's interesting that she says that his diet
> >"eliminates whole
groups of
> >food", when it doesn't.
>
> Well, I don't think you can have dairy products at
> all, right?
Doesn't
> he say no milk, butter, etc?
Cheese is dairy and not a no no. Butter is not a no no. I eat
a low fat, low carb yoghurt, sardines, cheese, cottage cheese,
almonds - plenty of calcium in fact.
Ozgirl
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
"Dana" <AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote in message
news:r2nu9v435igcg6c1vuup1dnjv40jeeml0v@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:03:00 +1000, "Ozgirl"
> <someone@nothere.com> wrote:
>
> >My diet is for blood sugar control first and foremost,
> >the fact
that I
> >can also gear it for weight loss and still not miss any
> >nutrients
is a
> >bonus. Most diabetics are handed a diet sheet similar to
> >the ADA
diet
> >and most end up finding that they simply cannot control
> >their blood sugars while following those diets to the
> >letter. I have been researching foods, their nutrients and
> >their effects on blood sugar for 25 years and I can
> >categorically state that I can happily
devise
> >my own personal diet and not miss out on anything vital to
> >my good health. With help from people like Quentin Grady
> >who also
researches,
> >but on a different level to myself, I can tweak my diet
> >from time
to
> >time to receive maximum benefit for diabetic control and
> >vascular health.
>
> That's great!! I wish I had started looking into meal
> plans when I
was
> first diagnosed. :)
It was forced on me, I have only had diabetes for 3 years, had
gestational diabetes a few times but the thing that made me
have to take note of what I ate was 22 years of reactive
hypoglycemia, a common pre-cursor of diabetes. It made my life
hell until I learned what I could about it and complex carbs
and how to eat combos of carb and fat and protein etc to avoid
collapsing on the ground from normal activities let alone
exercise. I only tipped over to real diabetes when I went on a
high carb, low fat diet. Strangely very close to the current
ADA type diets. My dicky pancreas couldn't handle the high
carbs, they were complex carbs too.
Ronnie Ruf
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:59:45 -0400, Dana wrote:
> Well, I don't think you can have dairy products at all,
> right? Doesn't he say no milk, butter, etc?
Cheese is dairy
Dana
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:07:43 -0600, "Sushi-Boy"
<EatRawFishies@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Dana: I think if someone cant control the ADA diet with
>willpower or for what ever reason they have to settle for
>just controlling their sugar. to me there is 2 goals every
>doctor sets for a diabetic if that diabetic can not maintain
>a healthy weight give them a diet that will atleast control
>the sugar.
Well, I think people have to do what they can to control sugar
and then try to do something about weight. I notice that alot
of the diabetic patients I see in my doctor's office are over
weight to morbidly obese and they have been diabetic for
years. So evidently, even though losing weight would help them
it must not be a priority to the doctor.
Dana
Ozgirl
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
"Damsel in dis Dress" <damsel-in-dis-dress@att.net.invalid>
wrote in message
news:28nu9v048vn4ion1j7qdf6lep8bighavti@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:59:45 -0400, Dana
> <AuntieDana@juno.com>
wrote:
>
> >Well, I don't think you can have dairy products at
> >all, right?
Doesn't
> >he say no milk, butter, etc?
>
> You can have butter and cheese, yogurt, sour cream, and
> heavy cream.
Yes I forgot aobut cream and sour cream being low carb as I
tend to do low sat fats and higher good fats.
Dana
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 19:19:41 -0700, Jennifer
<jenniferNOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote:
>No, butter, milk, cheese etc. are all fine on his plan.
>
>Jennifer
Hmmm.. I really gotta read his book again. I wonder what that
woman was talking about 'whole food groups" then?
Dana
Dana
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 02:05:01 GMT, Damsel in dis Dress
<damsel-in-dis-dress@att.net.invalid> wrote:
>You can have butter and cheese, yogurt, sour cream, and heavy
>cream. No
>milk.
Maybe that's where I got the dairy products from... hmmm..
Dana
Julie Bove
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
"Dana" <AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote in message
news:onou9vgni7srvfcu958iap15dpb68qafra@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 19:19:41 -0700, Jennifer
> <jenniferNOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >No, butter, milk, cheese etc. are all fine on his plan.
> >
> >Jennifer
>
> Hmmm.. I really gotta read his book again. I wonder what
> that woman was talking about 'whole food groups" then?
Probably the induction phase. No fruit is allowed then. No
grains. No sugar. Very few vegetables aside from salad greens.
--
Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
Damsel In
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:30:00 -0400, Dana
<AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 19:19:41 -0700, Jennifer
><jenniferNOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>No, butter, milk, cheese etc. are all fine on his plan.
>>
>>Jennifer
>
>Hmmm.. I really gotta read his book again. I wonder what that
>woman was talking about 'whole food groups" then?
She was probably refering to grains.
Carol
--
Type 2, dx May 15,1995 Glucophage XR Low Carb Eating Plan
Stretching Exercises and Walking
Ozgirl
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
"Dana" <AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote in message
news:onou9vgni7srvfcu958iap15dpb68qafra@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 19:19:41 -0700, Jennifer
> <jenniferNOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >No, butter, milk, cheese etc. are all fine on his plan.
> >
> >Jennifer
>
> Hmmm.. I really gotta read his book again. I wonder what
> that woman was talking about 'whole food groups" then?
I don't follow Atkins, it is a bit low carb for even me but
there is a lot of criticism about the diet and often from
people who haven't actually explored it.
Ozgirl
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
"Julie Bove" <jnospambove@bestweb.net> wrote in message
> > Hmmm.. I really gotta read his book again. I wonder
> > what that
woman
> > was talking about 'whole food groups" then?
>
> Probably the induction phase. No fruit is allowed then.
> No grains.
No
> sugar. Very few vegetables aside from salad greens.
That is two weeks though I think. 2 weeks won't kill a person.
I can eat well and be full and healthy and lack nothing on
lower carb.
Julie Bove
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
"Ozgirl" <someone@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:b7npip$2tshu$1@ID-139901.news.dfncis.de...
> > Probably the induction phase. No fruit is allowed then. No
> > grains.
> No
> > sugar. Very few vegetables aside from salad greens.
>
> That is two weeks though I think. 2 weeks won't kill a
> person. I can eat well and be full and healthy and lack
> nothing on lower carb.
That may be. I can't find the book. It probably went in the
trash when my husband realized that he wouldn't be able to eat
as much fruit as he wanted while on it. What gets me is that
it is a really regimented diet and supposedly it won't work if
you eat so much as a bite of a food that is not allowed. Yet
people keep making these broad sweeping statements about it or
say they are on an Atkins-like plan. The whole premise of his
plan is to induce Ketosis. And according to him, that won't
happen if you don't follow his plan to the letter.
--
Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
Wesley Gro
Thu, Apr-17-03, 23:00
Julie Bove wrote:
> say they are on an Atkins-like plan. The whole premise of
> his plan is to induce Ketosis. And according to him, that
> won't happen if you don't follow his plan to the letter.
Ketosis for weight loss. But one can be on a diet "like"
Atkins for other reasons. People who have read his book have
told me that my diet for diabetes was a lot like Atkins. OK,
cool, but I didn't learn it from Atkins.
Evelyn Ruu
Fri, Apr-18-03, 10:58
"Ozgirl" <someone@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:b7nivn$2nuji$1@ID-139901.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "Dana" <AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote in message
> news:if3u9v89ar45e19d9j9nc8lu46qh8b5uii@4ax.com...
> > This is for a discussion started on the effects of the
> > Atkins Diet.
> I
> > found this on the Welcome page of AOL and thought someone
> > might find it interesting...
> >
> >
> http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/Article/58/66544-
> .htm?pagenu mber=2
> >
> >
> > An excerpt:
> >
> > >"I understand why people would want to slam Atkins. I
> > >have very big
> problems with diets that eliminate whole groups of food, as
> his does," Lindeman tells WebMD. "But Atkins made us think
> more about the role of insulin in weight reduction. The
> question is whether his diet is doing any harm. And recent
> studies show it significantly lowers cholesterol and
> triglycerides."
>
> I would definitely disagree about whole food groups being
> eliminated. Some items in some groups are reduced or an
> alternate food used. The thing about food groups anyway is
> that each group provides a certain nutrient that our body
> needs, it is possible to get all our nutrients from foods
> without the use of supplements and still not eat more carbs
> than our individual bodies are able to handle.
>
> My diet is for blood sugar control first and foremost, the
> fact that I can also gear it for weight loss and still not
> miss any nutrients is a bonus. Most diabetics are handed a
> diet sheet similar to the ADA diet and most end up finding
> that they simply cannot control their blood sugars while
> following those diets to the letter. I have been researching
> foods, their nutrients and their effects on blood sugar for
> 25 years and I can categorically state that I can happily
> devise my own personal diet and not miss out on anything
> vital to my good health. With help from people like Quentin
> Grady who also researches, but on a different level to
> myself, I can tweak my diet from time to time to receive
> maximum benefit for diabetic control and vascular health.
Yes! Well said, Ozgirl.
Evelyn
Evelyn Ruu
Fri, Apr-18-03, 10:58
"Dana" <AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote in message
news:onou9vgni7srvfcu958iap15dpb68qafra@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 19:19:41 -0700, Jennifer
> <jenniferNOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >No, butter, milk, cheese etc. are all fine on his plan.
> >
> >Jennifer
>
> Hmmm.. I really gotta read his book again. I wonder what
> that woman was talking about 'whole food groups" then?
>
> Dana
Dana there are a lot of misconceptions about Atkins.
I eat almost all the foods I ever did, just in different
proportions. I eat almost no bread, no rice, no white flour,
no white potatoes. But if I want to, I take a very very small
portion of them.
I cook two vegetables instead of a potato and vegetable every
night for dinner. I eat more salads and put more in them than
before. I make lots of good homemade soups with no added
noodles or rice, just lots of veggies.
Complex carbs, such as whole grain crackers like Wasa Crackers
are my "bread" I also do occasionally eat some brown rice. If
I go to the chinese buffet I will eat one or two of those tiny
sushi rolls, which do contain a bit of white rice. I think it
is worth it to get the high mineral content of the Nori
seaweed they are rolled in, and the veggies inside. Quantity
is important when dealing with these foods. These are rare
instances, when I do that, but I would hardly say that whole
food groups are eliminated.
OK....One food that is absolutely totally eliminated (for
me)has been sugar. I use splenda or equal in tea and coffee,
and drink diet sodas and I don't eat desserts made with
flour and sugar. I rarely ate dessert anyway even before I
became diabetic.
I am not losing weight as fast as if I went into full ketosis,
but I am losing weight at a rate I can live with, and the big
thing is that I can eat the foods I love and not feel hungry.
It is working for me......
Evelyn
Evelyn Ruu
Fri, Apr-18-03, 10:58
"Dana" <AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote in message
news:o6nu9vcncemtk1839o5tojftdj53jci5pf@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:07:43 -0600, "Sushi-Boy"
> <EatRawFishies@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Dana: I think if someone cant control the ADA diet with
> >willpower or for what
ever reason
> >they have to settle for just controlling their sugar. to me
> >there is 2
goals every doctor sets for a diabetic
> >if that diabetic can not maintain a healthy weight give
> >them a diet that
will atleast control the sugar.
>
> Well, I think people have to do what they can to control
> sugar and then try to do something about weight. I notice
> that alot of the diabetic patients I see in my doctor's
> office are over weight to morbidly obese and they have been
> diabetic for years. So evidently, even though losing weight
> would help them it must not be a priority to the doctor.
>
> Dana
Dana, that is a doctor I would avoid if he is too tolerant of
heavy weight....
It is well known that obesity worsens diabetes, and that in
some who have lost enough weight, they become actually like a
non-diabetic and don't need meds anymore. They are of course,
STILL diabetic, but significant weight loss can make it such
that it requires no treatment anymore.
I am longing for that day for myself!
Evelyn
Evelyn Ruu
Fri, Apr-18-03, 10:58
"Julie Bove" <jnospambove@bestweb.net> wrote in message
news:v9ur0kghk0g5a3@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>
>
> "Ozgirl" <someone@nothere.com> wrote in message
> news:b7npip$2tshu$1@ID-139901.news.dfncis.de...
>
> > > Probably the induction phase. No fruit is allowed then.
> > > No grains.
> > No
> > > sugar. Very few vegetables aside from salad greens.
> >
> > That is two weeks though I think. 2 weeks won't kill a
> > person. I can eat well and be full and healthy and lack
> > nothing on lower carb.
>
> That may be. I can't find the book. It probably went in the
> trash when
my
> husband realized that he wouldn't be able to eat as much
> fruit as he
wanted
> while on it. What gets me is that it is a really regimented
> diet and supposedly it won't work if you eat so much as a
> bite of a food that is
not
> allowed. Yet people keep making these broad sweeping
> statements about it
or
> say they are on an Atkins-like plan. The whole premise of
> his plan is to induce Ketosis. And according to him, that
> won't happen if you don't
follow
> his plan to the letter.
>
> --
> Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
Dear Julie,
That isn't quite true, but I understand why he says that. I am
losing weight albeit slower than when I went into full
ketosis. If you can go into ketosis with no problems, fine,
the weight will literally drop off you. My doctor wants me to
do a "modified" Atkins.... and as such my carbohydrates are
almost always (just a few) complex ones, or the ones from
certain fresh vegetables rather than flour and rice and
potatoes, and in very small quantities.
I think that the confusion results from the idea of whether a
diabetic person whose kidneys are healthy can go into ketosis
without it being an indication of damage. I think that if it
is an indication of damaged kidneys to see protein in the
urine, doctors may feel reluctant to bring ketosis on through
diet since they may not be able to know if it is an issue of
damage or diet induced ketosis.
It would probably be smart to know if the kidneys are truly
healthy before embarking on a low carb eating plan just for
this reason.
Regards, Evelyn
Dana
Fri, Apr-18-03, 10:58
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 23:47:17 -0500, Wesley Groleau
<wesgroleau@despammed.com> wrote:
>Ketosis for weight loss. But one can be on a diet "like"
>Atkins for other reasons. People who have read his book have
>told me that my diet for diabetes was a lot like Atkins. OK,
>cool, but I didn't learn it from Atkins.
OK, so let me say this. I was on the NutriSystem diet for over
a year and it works by Ketosis. You had to pee on a stick
every week to make sure you were "in Ketosis". After I
finished, lost the weight, I also lost my gall bladder. Later
it came out in the paper that 90% of the people on NutriSystem
diet lost their gall bladders.
Anyone else know about this?
Dana
Evelyn Ruu
Fri, Apr-18-03, 10:58
"Dana" <AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote in message
news:p1uv9vomdr336jg5d8c4j8vb8sk8vj5aq7@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 23:47:17 -0500, Wesley Groleau
> <wesgroleau@despammed.com> wrote:
>
> >Ketosis for weight loss. But one can be on a diet "like"
> >Atkins for other reasons. People who have read his book
> >have told me that my diet for diabetes was a lot like
> >Atkins. OK, cool, but I didn't learn it from Atkins.
>
> OK, so let me say this. I was on the NutriSystem diet for
> over a year and it works by Ketosis. You had to pee on a
> stick every week to make sure you were "in Ketosis". After I
> finished, lost the weight, I also lost my gall bladder.
> Later it came out in the paper that 90% of the people on
> NutriSystem diet lost their gall bladders.
>
> Anyone else know about this?
>
> Dana
I lost mine the same way. Not from Nutri-System but from
Medifast, which was just like Optifast. You drink these
protein shakes three or four times a day. No food at all. This
doesn't work that way.
Regards, Evelyn
Julie Bove
Fri, Apr-18-03, 10:58
"Dana" <AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote in message
news:p1uv9vomdr336jg5d8c4j8vb8sk8vj5aq7@4ax.com...
> OK, so let me say this. I was on the NutriSystem diet for
> over a year and it works by Ketosis. You had to pee on a
> stick every week to make sure you were "in Ketosis". After I
> finished, lost the weight, I also lost my gall bladder.
> Later it came out in the paper that 90% of the people on
> NutriSystem diet lost their gall bladders.
>
> Anyone else know about this?
I don't know about the 90% figure. I do know a couple of
people who tried
it. One couldn't stick with it. The other lost her gall
bladder. She was told it was the rapid weight loss that
caused the problem. And did she maintain that weight
loss? No. She lost it so she could take a cruise. Her
husband had told her that if she lost a certain amount of
weight, he'd take her on a cruise. And why did she want
to go on the cruise? So she could eat all the food. Sad,
but true. The other one didn't maintain her weight loss
either, although she never quite reached her goal.
--
Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
Dana
Fri, Apr-18-03, 10:58
On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:57:20 GMT, "Evelyn Ruut"
<mama-lionsox@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
>I lost mine the same way. Not from Nutri-System but from
>Medifast, which was just like Optifast. You drink these
>protein shakes three or four times a day. No food at all.
>This doesn't work that way.
Well, NutriSystem wasn't a drink, it had food, but they made
it. I'm still not sure what that mystery meat was. <G> Most of
it was edible but not real tasty. When you reached goal you
really went wild for real food and gained all the weight back.
Anyway, I don't think that's good for a body, I mean Ketosis.
Dana
My husband and I both did NutriSystem back in 1989-90 (or
around then). We both did very well, and he lost weight like
wildfire. There was no ketosis though, no peeing on a stick.
The food was interesting, some meals better than others, but
they made major modifications in it sometime later. A friend
had one of the meals and we tried it, and it was nearly
inedible, much worse. Hubby lost 70 pounds in about 4
months... very quickly. It took me almost a year to lose 70
pounds. Is that fast? For him, yes, for me, not so much; under
6 pounds per month, which is within the 1-2 pounds per week
suggested by most doctors/dieticians.
I have never heard ketosis being connected with any
gallbladder problem. Ketosis is, in fact, a pretty normal
process in which our body burns the fat we have stored. The
only way we can ever lose fat is to go into ketosis. The
difference is whether it's heavy ketosis or just a "bit" of
ketosis. Gallbladder disease is more connected with high
intake of fats and rapid weight loss, although the articles
I've read say there is still some doubt as to exactly whether
the person would have had the problem anyway. The body is a
complicated critter. :-)
While ketosis is "normal" in that sense, the ketones (the
byproducts of the use of fat) are "poisons" to the body, and
that's why you must make sure you're not dehydrated. You want
to flush them out. They don't build up to toxic levels though,
from what I understand and have read in books like the Johns
Hopkins book on diabetes, UNLESS you are a diabetic with out
of control hyperglycemia. Normally ketoacidosis is something
type 1 diabetics have to worry about although type 2s can also
be afflicted. Often it's a problem when the diabetic gets sick
and isn't hydrated enough, which is why they say to check for
ketones when you're ill. In addition, the JH book said that
people who produce insulin have a build-in protection against
burning too much fat because the insulin itself will keep the
ketone level in the body down.
My husband and I are both low carbing right now. He is doing
it to keep me company and get off the pounds he put back in
the last ten years. He did keep off the weight lost with NS
for many, many years, but then gradually started eating way
too much and drinking, and back it started to come. I, OTOH,
began gaining weight after a hysterectomy and have had
problems ever since, through several more surgeries, etc.
I am a type 2 diabetic, and my doctor believes the low carb
(i.e., Atkins) is the best diet to control BG. I am doing
Atkins of a sort, but more in the OWL category, which allows
some nuts and berries, and I plan to try a few more carbs as
I get more used to what my body is doing (yogurt, small
apples, etc.)
All in all, ketosis is not only NOT bad for the body; it's a
normal process. Unless you never want to lose any of your
weight (fat), you MUST be in ketosis. Whether you know it or
not, that's another thing, and you certainly don't have to be
in heavy ketosis. Any time you exercise in the moderate range
(60-70% of your max HR), you will be burning both stored
glucose and fatty acids, i.e., having a mild form of ketosis.
Cheryl
"Dana" <AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote in message
news:2p60avob7imh0vcflfnis4que4r4or0gte@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:57:20 GMT, "Evelyn Ruut"
> <mama-lionsox@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >I lost mine the same way. Not from Nutri-System but from
> >Medifast,
which
> >was just like Optifast. You drink these protein shakes
> >three or four
times
> >a day. No food at all. This doesn't work that way.
>
> Well, NutriSystem wasn't a drink, it had food, but they
> made it. I'm still not sure what that mystery meat was. <G>
> Most of it was edible but not real tasty. When you reached
> goal you really went wild for real food and gained all the
> weight back.
>
> Anyway, I don't think that's good for a body, I mean
> Ketosis.
>
> Dana
Priscilla
Fri, Apr-18-03, 16:59
Damsel in dis Dress
<damsel-in-dis-dress@att.net.invalid> quoth:
>On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:59:45 -0400, Dana
><AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote:
>>Well, I don't think you can have dairy products at all,
>>right? Doesn't he say no milk, butter, etc?
>You can have butter and cheese, yogurt, sour cream, and heavy
>cream. No
>milk.
Carol, I don't think this is right, is it? After induction you
can get some of your carbs from milk, can't you?
Priscilla
--
"I would listen to Priscilla. Her advice is excellent!"
-- Frankenmel (Sharon) on alt.support.menopause
Damsel In
Fri, Apr-18-03, 16:59
On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:58:22 +0000 (UTC), Priscilla H Ballou
<phb@shell01.TheWorld.com> wrote:
>Damsel in dis Dress
><damsel-in-dis-dress@att.net.invalid> quoth:
>>On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:59:45 -0400, Dana
>><AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote:
>
>>>Well, I don't think you can have dairy products at all,
>>>right? Doesn't he say no milk, butter, etc?
>
>>You can have butter and cheese, yogurt, sour cream, and
>>heavy cream. No
>>milk.
>
>Carol, I don't think this is right, is it? After induction
>you can get some of your carbs from milk, can't you?
Good catch, Priscilla. I generally think in terms of
Induction. I eat very little that isn't allowed during the
first two weeks.
Carol
--
Type 2, dx May 15,1995 Glucophage XR Low Carb Eating Plan
Stretching Exercises and Walking
Priscilla
Fri, Apr-18-03, 16:59
Wesley Groleau <wesgroleau@despammed.com> quoth:
>Julie Bove wrote:
>> say they are on an Atkins-like plan. The whole premise of
>> his plan is to induce Ketosis. And according to him, that
>> won't happen if you don't follow his plan to the letter.
>Ketosis for weight loss. But one can be on a diet "like"
>Atkins for other reasons. People who have read his book have
>told me that my diet for diabetes was a lot like Atkins. OK,
>cool, but I didn't learn it from Atkins.
Yes, the low-carb diet I eat to keep my BG in line is sort of
like "Atkins-lite." I eat to my meter, so I can squeeze in
more carbs than I might on Atkins. The low-carb newsgroup is
full of people on Atkins, and there's a lot of helpful
low-carb info in amongst the Atkins jargon.
Priscilla
--
"I would listen to Priscilla. Her advice is excellent!"
-- Frankenmel (Sharon) on alt.support.menopause
Guy F Klos
Fri, Apr-18-03, 16:59
I know two young women, both on Weight Watcher's, both with
fairly dramatic weight losses, that have both had their gall
bladders removed.
I've not really looked into it, but I've heard it isn't that
unusual in cases with rapid, dramatic weight loss (regardless
of the program), especially for women.
Guy
Dana
Fri, Apr-18-03, 23:00
On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:42:09 -0400, "Julie Bove"
<jnospambove@bestweb.net> wrote:
>And why did she want to go on the cruise? So she could eat
>all the food. Sad, but true.
Yes, sad, but makes perfect sense to me. <G>
Dana
Jenny
Fri, Apr-18-03, 23:00
Actually, my understanding is that a prolonged stint of
low fat dieting is more likely to cause gall bladder
problems. Most of the low carbers I know have their gall
bladders intact.
-- Jenny
168.5/146/145 Second Goal
169/1998 - 8/2001 and 11/10/02 - Now
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate
your need for protein * How much people really lose each
month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for
Hunger Cravings
* Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low
Carb Treats * Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? *
Curing Ketobreath
"guy f klose" <gfk@TheWorld.com> wrote in message
news:b7pq4g$6q9$1@pcls4.std.com...
> I know two young women, both on Weight Watcher's, both with
> fairly dramatic weight losses, that have both had their gall
> bladders removed.
>
> I've not really looked into it, but I've heard it isn't that
> unusual in cases with rapid, dramatic weight loss
> (regardless of the program), especially for women.
>
> Guy
Dana
Fri, Apr-18-03, 23:00
On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:22:40 -0700, "CLW"
<cherylw@lvcm.com> wrote:
>My husband and I both did NutriSystem back in 1989-90 (or
>around then). We both did very well, and he lost weight like
>wildfire.
(snip alot of interesting stuff about ketosis)
Well, my gallbladder was removed in 92, well after I stopped
going to NutriSystem. I guess I started go there in the early
80's as best I remember.
I heard that ketosis caused the problem with the gallbladder,
at least that is what I thought I heard. But, the rapid weight
loss thing happened to me as well. And I supposed before the
diet I was eating too much fat, so that could be the cause
too. All makes sense to me.
Thanks. :) Dana
I should have mentioned that I was taught that it's fat that
can contribute to gallbladder disease but that gallstones can
relate to low fat... not sure if it's correct though since I
never challenged it. Maybe someone else knows for sure or
wants to check it out further.
Cheryl
"Dana" <AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote in message
news:5t31avko8g903a2pgu3rq3f8eeb58qqbfg@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:22:40 -0700, "CLW"
> <cherylw@lvcm.com> wrote:
>
> >My husband and I both did NutriSystem back in 1989-90 (or
> >around then).
We
> >both did very well, and he lost weight like wildfire.
>
> (snip alot of interesting stuff about ketosis)
>
> Well, my gallbladder was removed in 92, well after I stopped
> going to NutriSystem. I guess I started go there in the
> early 80's as best I remember.
>
> I heard that ketosis caused the problem with the
> gallbladder, at least that is what I thought I heard. But,
> the rapid weight loss thing happened to me as well. And I
> supposed before the diet I was eating too much fat, so that
> could be the cause too. All makes sense to me.
>
> Thanks. :) Dana
Big Dave
Sat, Apr-19-03, 04:56
FYI, I lost over 115 lbs in just over 8 months on the Atkins
diet *and* I have kept it off for almost a year now. Never,
not even one time, was I hungry either in the process or
thereafter.
I was also able to put diabetes back into the box it crawled
out of. I started out with a HbA1c of 8.9. I now have a
glycosylated of 5.2 and I haven't taken any medication in over
a year. Before I started Atkins I was on high blood presssure
medication (prinivil), diabetes medication (glucophage), and
cholesterol medication (lipitor).
Cholesterol before: 265 - - after 3 months on Atkins: 79 - -
today 1 year later: 149
Triglycerides before: 780 - - after 3 months on Atkins: 91 - -
today 1 year later: 109
Blood pressure before: 195/95 - - after 3 months on Atkins:
140/80 - - today 1 year later: 120/60
I quit taking all medications after 3 months on Atkins.
If you have high blood glucose and high insulin, I strongly
advise you to try the Atkins approach.
You may well be very glad you did.
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:30:22 -0400, Dana
<AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote:
>This is for a discussion started on the effects of the Atkins
>Diet. I found this on the Welcome page of AOL and thought
>someone might find it interesting...
>
>http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/Article/58/66544.-
>htm?pagenumber=2
>
>
>An excerpt:
>
>>"I understand why people would want to slam Atkins. I have
>>very big problems with diets that eliminate whole groups of
>>food, as his does," Lindeman tells WebMD. "But Atkins made
>>us think more about the role of insulin in weight reduction.
>>The question is whether his diet is doing any harm. And
>>recent studies show it significantly lowers cholesterol and
>>triglycerides."
>
>Dana
Julie
Sat, Apr-19-03, 04:56
I don't know about anyone else but I find it extremely hard
eating fat after so many years of being told its a no no. I
watch my carbs but don't really eat cream, cheese, and nuts as
allowed on Atkins.
Julie xxx "Big Dave" <papadaveREMOVE@earthlink.net> wrote in
message news:40l1av0r1h6hi94g7g30v66a2v4jk6nmlf@4ax.com...
> FYI, I lost over 115 lbs in just over 8 months on the Atkins
> diet *and* I have kept it off for almost a year now. Never,
> not even one time, was I hungry either in the process or
> thereafter.
>
> I was also able to put diabetes back into the box it crawled
> out of. I started out with a HbA1c of 8.9. I now have a
> glycosylated of 5.2 and I haven't taken any medication in
> over a year. Before I started Atkins I was on high blood
> presssure medication (prinivil), diabetes medication
> (glucophage), and cholesterol medication (lipitor).
>
> Cholesterol before: 265 - - after 3 months on Atkins: 79 - -
> today 1 year later: 149
>
> Triglycerides before: 780 - - after 3 months on Atkins: 91 -
> - today 1 year later: 109
>
> Blood pressure before: 195/95 - - after 3 months on Atkins:
> 140/80 - - today 1 year later: 120/60
>
> I quit taking all medications after 3 months on Atkins.
>
> If you have high blood glucose and high insulin, I strongly
> advise you to try the Atkins approach.
>
> You may well be very glad you did.
>
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:30:22 -0400, Dana
> <AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote:
>
> >This is for a discussion started on the effects of the
> >Atkins Diet. I found this on the Welcome page of AOL and
> >thought someone might find it interesting...
> >
>
>http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/Article/58/66544.-
>htm?pagenumber=
2
> >
> >
> >An excerpt:
> >
> >>"I understand why people would want to slam Atkins. I have
> >>very big
problems with diets that eliminate whole groups of food, as
his does," Lindeman tells WebMD. "But Atkins made us think
more about the role of insulin in weight reduction. The
question is whether his diet is doing any harm. And recent
studies show it significantly lowers cholesterol and
triglycerides."
> >
> >Dana
Yeah, I had that problem too. It's hard to go against what
we've been told for so long. I did a lot of reading at PubMed
and finally began to get that everything we've been told
hasn't actually been right. There aren't that many studies
that prove fat is an enemy, particularly fats that aren't
saturated. I eat cheese in moderation, 3-4 ounces a day most
days, use cream in my morning shake, but eat nuts often,
particularly walnuts. I should say I eat as many as I feel I
can calorically afford. LOL! We'll see how the blood tests
are, but the research and anecdotal evidence is quite
impressive.
Cheryl
"Julie" <removethisjulie.catz@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:b7r1a5$39urr$1@ID-152305.news.dfncis.de...
> I don't know about anyone else but I find it extremely hard
> eating fat
after
> so many years of being told its a no no. I watch my carbs
> but don't
really
> eat cream, cheese, and nuts as allowed on Atkins.
>
> Julie xxx "Big Dave" <papadaveREMOVE@earthlink.net> wrote in
> message news:40l1av0r1h6hi94g7g30v66a2v4jk6nmlf@4ax.com...
> > FYI, I lost over 115 lbs in just over 8 months on the
> > Atkins diet *and* I have kept it off for almost a year
> > now. Never, not even one time, was I hungry either in the
> > process or thereafter.
> >
> > I was also able to put diabetes back into the box it
> > crawled out of. I started out with a HbA1c of 8.9. I now
> > have a glycosylated of 5.2 and I haven't taken any
> > medication in over a year. Before I started Atkins I was
> > on high blood presssure medication (prinivil), diabetes
> > medication (glucophage), and cholesterol medication
> > (lipitor).
> >
> > Cholesterol before: 265 - - after 3 months on Atkins: 79 -
> > - today 1 year later: 149
> >
> > Triglycerides before: 780 - - after 3 months on Atkins: 91
> > - - today 1 year later: 109
> >
> > Blood pressure before: 195/95 - - after 3 months on
> > Atkins: 140/80 - - today 1 year later: 120/60
> >
> > I quit taking all medications after 3 months on Atkins.
> >
> > If you have high blood glucose and high insulin, I
> > strongly advise you to try the Atkins approach.
> >
> > You may well be very glad you did.
> >
> > On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:30:22 -0400, Dana
> > <AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote:
> >
> > >This is for a discussion started on the effects of the
> > >Atkins Diet. I found this on the Welcome page of AOL and
> > >thought someone might find it interesting...
> > >
> >
>
>http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/Article/58/66544.-
>htm?pagenumber= 2
> > >
> > >
> > >An excerpt:
> > >
> > >>"I understand why people would want to slam Atkins. I
> > >>have very big
> problems with diets that eliminate whole groups of food, as
> his does," Lindeman tells WebMD. "But Atkins made us think
> more about the role of insulin in weight reduction. The
> question is whether his diet is doing any harm. And recent
> studies show it significantly lowers cholesterol and
> triglycerides."
> > >
> > >Dana
>
Colleen
Sat, Apr-19-03, 10:57
When I had my gallbladder removed (post childbirth not post
diet) the doctor said there were both calcium and/or
cholesterol stones that can cause the problem. I had the
cholesterol ones. I couldn't metabolize fats well for years. c
"CLW" <cherylw@lvcm.com> wrote in message
news:ah2oa.8231$5R6.7868@fed1read01...
> I should have mentioned that I was taught that it's fat that
> can contribute to gallbladder disease but that gallstones
> can relate to low fat... not sure if it's correct though
> since I never challenged it. Maybe someone else knows for
> sure or wants to check it out further.
>
> Cheryl
>
> "Dana" <AuntieDana@juno.com> wrote in message
> news:5t31avko8g903a2pgu3rq3f8eeb58qqbfg@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:22:40 -0700, "CLW"
> > <cherylw@lvcm.com> wrote:
> >
> > >My husband and I both did NutriSystem back in 1989-90 (or
> > >around then).
> We
> > >both did very well, and he lost weight like wildfire.
> >
> > (snip alot of interesting stuff about ketosis)
> >
> > Well, my gallbladder was removed in 92, well after I
> > stopped going to NutriSystem. I guess I started go there
> > in the early 80's as best I remember.
> >
> > I heard that ketosis caused the problem with the
> > gallbladder, at least that is what I thought I heard. But,
> > the rapid weight loss thing happened to me as well. And I
> > supposed before the diet I was eating too much fat, so
> > that could be the cause too. All makes sense to me.
> >
> > Thanks. :) Dana
>
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