PCRM claims

[thegronc]

While anyone on this board and anyone who follows dietary research knows these guys are a front for the Ornish/vegan clan, one ridiculous claim they insist on is that meats have as high a GI as many carb-laden foods. I've looked through a number of GI websites, but they do not list the GI values for any meats.

Any help with specifics(imagine this-the PCRM had loads of references, but none that pertain to that claim)?

[Angeline]

They don't list GI values for meat for the simple reason meat has a value of zero.

[Pooch]

I wonder if that's a big FAT zero or a big SKINNY zero.

[Scarlet]

No, this is true. I read about this assertion that meat has as high a GI as carb foods and was really worried till I saw the website was a vegan one.

Some things never change, it seems in journalsim it's all about the source.

[acohn]

While meat may not have a GI value, it does have both a an effect on blood glucose levels and an insulemic effect, especially when combined with a carbohydrate. And ultimately, it's the insulin response that we're interested in; the GI number is only a proxy. In the only study of its kind completed to date, researchers found that "protein-rich foods and bakery products (rich in fat and refined carbohydrate) elicited insulin responses that were disproportionately higher than their glycemic responses."(1) Brand-Miller is currently conducting a study at the Univ. of Sydney on a larger array of foods.

In a recently completed study (http://www.medscimonit.com/pub/vol_9/no_2/3230.pdf), researchers found that even the low-carb Atkins Advantage bar produced a significant insulin response. The graph on p. CR87 tells the basic story, but here's a rough summary:

Maximum Insulin Responses for Test Foods (mean values ±standard error of mean, in pmol-min/L):

White Bread: 9,413.7
High-carb bar: 16,241.1
moderate-carb bar: 12,718.2
low-carb bar: 6,942.9
Chicken: 2,105.5

I took eating things away from this study:

Eating protein and carbs together, which is pretty natural, raises insulin
An insulin response to eating healthy foods is perfectly natural (http://bbs.eatprotein.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=203745#000008)
Insulin responses get unpredictable when you're dealing with weird foods, like energy bars.









(1)S Holt, JC Brand-Miller, P Petocz. "An Insulin Index of Foods: The Insulin Demand Generated by 1000-kJ Portions of Common Foods." Am. J Clin. Nutr. 1997, Vol. 66: pages 1264-1276.

[neeam]

Hi
off late I read about Insulin index that Achorn mentioned.
Meat/fish/dairy leads to higher insulin surge than what GI tells.
I read Dr. G Raven mention the same thing..

one more reason for us not to go over the limit with protein...
this stuff is more complex than we think.. I find the report useful..

http://www.mendosa.com/insulin_index.htm
neeam

[tamarian]

For more info on Dr. Bernard, the PCRM exposed

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=82314

Wa'il

[wcollier]

While meat may not have a GI value, it does have both a an effect on blood glucose levels and an insulemic effect, especially when combined with a carbohydrate.

Acohn, that's interesting. I read in Dr. Schwarzbein's book that red meat contains hidden sugar in the form of glycogen. I never really thought about it until reading your post.

Wanda

[phoenix7]

The Mendosa info is pretty sketchy. Is there anything more solid?