need help with a debate

[shandyAndy]

hi, i'm debating on a forum on how healthy meat eating is.

here is the guys last post:

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quote:
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Originally posted by Järv
fish is the main animal source mankind is evolved to eat.


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It's true the animal proteins found in fish and crustaceans is more easily broken down by the human body to add in proper muscle repair/building which is why I still eat fish. Fish is also less fatty then most other sources of meat.

I don't have a morale issue with eating red meat, poultry or pork. It's just that the animals that provide this meat have been treated with hormones and the like to make them larger and provide more meat.

Also the human body has still not evolved to properly digest red meat, small trace amounts of it remain in your colon long after digestion. This leads to nasty health problems, such is the fact why eating and excess of red meat is the leading cause of colon cancer.

And yes I'm also aware that plant have undergone a similar treatment to be larger and sweeter, etc. which is why I try to eat organic fruit and vegetables whenever possible.

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They are going with the "humans travelled and evolved along shore line" theory, i think. Any evidence i can use to tell him we are perfectly evolved to eat red meat?

Thanks for any help!

[captxray]

I don't see where this person thinks that we were only designed to eat fish! Many of our ancestors didn't live anywhere near the ocean and ate whatever they could get their grubbly hands on. That, for the large measure, in some parts of the world, meant big animals who were loaded with red meat....sloths, bison, elephants...anteaters...whatever. Another thing; the argument seems to be based upon a "fact" that red meat stays in the colon and causes colon cancer...not necessarily true. An example of how statistics can be swayed to say what you want them to say. We have no idea what the people were eating who had the residual red meat in their colons, now do we? We also equate the colon cancer with this putrifying meat...it could be caused by the fact that the people were eating high carbs, and meat...a different combination than eating meat, fat, and veggies. For example, a pepperoni pizza has lots of red meat. It may stay in the colon an extra long time because the poor intestines are working extra hard at getting rid of the phytated grain products of the pizza and waiting to get the red meat digested last, because that is what the body really needs. However, by the time the system gets around to the red meat, it has gone sour, through no fault of its own, while it waited patiently in the colon to be digested completely. "Food" for thought.

[LizB.]

I saw this program on anatomy the other night and they were showing all the different kinds of stomachs for the animal kingdom, guess what, the herbivores have very complex and large stomachs for breaking down all the vegetation, and the carnivores have simple sack stomachs, like us.

Did this person ever read Neanderthin?

I am not sure about the colon, but I do know that there is a difference of opinion about coloc cancer, I learned in a human biology class that white flour is what gets stuck in the colon and causes problems because it is basically indigestable.

LizB.

[JimR-OCDS]

Just reading this older thread and I've have nothing else to do so I thought I'd reply, even though the originator probably is finished with his debate.

Anyway, if you were lost in the wilderness and ate only fish, you would starve to death.

In the North American wilderness, the average man would use about 4700 calories per day.

Fish only gives you 240 calories per pound of flesh. You need a really big fish to get enough calories to make it up to 4700. Just trying to catch the fish would more likely burn more calories than what it gave you back.

So, anyone who makes the argument that humans were really meant to eat only fish, and not meat, is all wet.

[MichaelG]

Since I started a paleo diet I've been getting a lot more exercise, and I find that my bowel 'transit time' is getting a lot quicker, and elimination is quicker and cleaner than when I ate lots of bread and pasta. I bet you all wanted to know that!

However it occurs to me that because I am eliminating more efficiently all that red meat is going through quicker, not slower, which seems to knock the bowel cancer concerns

[JimR-OCDS]

The link between colon cancer and eating meat is outdated information.

The most recent studies have found no link between eating meat and colon cancer, but did find links that eating processed meat, such as cold cuts from the deli, "may"(the key word here) cause colon cancer.

You can find the info on this at zoneperfect.com, or at Dr Atkins site.


In all studies that you get from the general media, beware of keywords such as, "may cause, or may prevent." It pretty much leans towards, the relm of junk science.

[Zuleikaa]

Then why does man have canines? Those teeth were developed for eating meat. Since human evolution takes so long to adopt biological changes I would say humans were originally developed to eat and tear at meat.

[black57]

check out http://www.westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/native_americans.html


I am doing Atkins and I thoroughly believe in the health benefits of removing large amounts of carbs from the diet. But this is a very powerful statement just in case no one has ever read it. :doah:

Black57

[sunkist]

Since I'm 1/4 Cherokee Indian - I can attest to the fact that people of our ethnicity need more fat, protein & less carbs. In fact right now most Indians who are living on reservations are suffering from major symptoms of Syndrome X including all the sociological and psychological side effects of the Standard American Diet. They have diabetes, heart disease, hypoglycemia, alcoholism, suicide - in record number. I for one want to go back to the way both sides of my ancestors ate - Cherokee & Swedish - both of whom ate alot of protein. My Swedish Grandparents lived off of a lake and ate fish all year round.

I love the Weston Price website - I may not agree with the cow dairy products for my own genetic makeup - but for others it is beneficial - and the rest of their info is great. Especially about the bone & teeth structure of the healthier native people who ate their traditional diet.

[captxray]

I don't agree that dairy products are good for any ethinic, or racial group, period! Not even human dairy products, after about the age of three years. I think people might look healthy and even seem quite healthy eating dairy products, but I bet, population-wise, we'd still see more auto-immune disorders showing up with the population that ate them. My ancestors were Danish vikings, nobles in England, as well as farmers, and Welsh farmers and miners. They were pioneers in America, coming across on the Oregon trail to the West. Still, I don't think dairy or grain did them any good. I used to tell that to my dad, who died at the young age 86 years, last year. My grandmother died at a mere 94. I used to tell Dad that garden that he grew corn and potatoes and beans in was going to kill him before his time, one day. I was right! He fell over a "Killer Potato" bush while he was fertilizing it and started an internal bleeding that didn't stop. See? Potatoes got him! Proof-positive!

Well, some people are affected and others aren't, I guess. My family is not a good example of dying young from auto-immune disorders and eating all the wrong foods...they did, of course (ate the wrong foods, I mean). Actually, my grandfather died at age 82 from cancer, my dad had a rare form of leukemia, that would probably have not ever killed him because he was so old, anyway...my uncle died of an auto-immune disorder, one uncle was shot to death and another had a car accident. My da'd sister died in the Egypt Air disaster over the Atlantic Ocean a few years back. My grandmother just kind of ran out of gas at age 94. Some had strong, resistant constitutions and others didn't, and others...who knows?

[sunkist]

Hi CaptnXray
My Fathers Grandfather on his Mom's side actually had a Viking Burial where when he died - they put his body on a pyre on the deck of his boat - set fire to the pyre under his body then set the ship out into the lake and let the whole thing burn and sink to the bottom. Pretty cool.

My own grandmothers(mom's side) mother & father (both Swedish) lived to about 87-89 and she lived to be 86. My own grandfather (mom's side)died young from cancer but he also had some wounds from world war II that worsened his condition

My own grandfather (dad's side) was 100% Cherokee and lived to be about 70 which is pretty young to die - and my own grandmother (100% Swedish) died at age 93.

Both my parents died around the age of 60-62 because of smoking. My dad from throat cancer, my mom from emphysema. I never smoked except for a period of one week back when I was 17. But that was it and I never smoked again.

[captxray]

Wow! What a cool (HOT!) way to go out...sailing off into the sunset on a Viking funeral pyre! What a great idea! OOOOPS! Environmentalists would have a cow! Pollution...garbage in the water and at the bottom of the lake...not to mention unhealthy fumes for the birds and poisons for the fishies...all of the pollution from the burning paint of the boat, and other chemicals...oh, well, great idea, anyway, but not in today's world. After all, we're all "Health" conscious...NOT!! But, people think they are.

Have you read the latest? The State of Arkansas is going to have teachers in the schools give kids "Obesity Report Cards," from now-on at the time they get their regular report cards! This is going way too far! Think of the poor little fat kids and the ribbing they will take when the kids start to compare their report cards! What are these nuts (too kind a word...I happen to like nuts...maybe it should be "stinking, government nannie, in-your-face, better-than-you, wierdos!) thinking? I might have killed myself as a child if I were more ridiculed about my weight than I was, growing up. It was bad enough, being picked last for sports, being ridiculed because of my last name, being one of the portly kids...I couldn't help it. My parents made me eat everything on my plate ("think of the poor starving children in China")and I happened to be allergic to corn, wheat, and potatoes...My body got fat because of it!! And, blaming MacDonald's for being fat is just too much. Incidentally, they are going to start offering Adult "Nutritious" Happy Meals, along with a pedometer and a weight chart, etc...It will be some sort of salad...Now, who will buy that crap? Oh, a few will, but people go there to get the high calories, high fats, high carbohydrates...that's what put them on the map. What a dismal failure this is destined to be because of the "food police," who supposedly know better than the rest of us. I'll bet they never even think of putting a low carb, high protein meal together...like a couple of burger patties, a big salad with olive oil dressing and no sugar and an apple, or an orange or a plum...you can bet that won't happen!!

[captxray]

Considering the original thread of this, how about Mickey D's giving us a "Fish Platter." Now, there's something lower in Omega 6 transfatty acids, lower in calories, high in protein...as long as they don't fry it in batter...they could deep-fry the fish (flounder or haddock)without batter, in palm oil, and some great seasonings, give us a nice salad, made with brocolli, celery, almonds, pumpkin seeds, romaine lettuce and cucumbers, with an ocassional carrot slice and some great dressing made with lemon juice, olive oil and italian seaonings. Top that off with some frozen strawberries, mixed with frozen bananas, for the desert. Won't happen! Most people wouldn't even go into Mickey D's if they smelled the fish cooking!

[black57]

Read this article then tell me what you have concluded.

http://www.westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/native_americans.html

[captxray]

Very interesting. Now, try to convince "modern Americans" of it's value....go on! I dare ya' People are so caught up in the fast food craze and "modern" "healthy" foods, they simply won't believe this...I do, but most people I talk to give me a very confused look and invariably say, "I couldn't do that! I can't give up my chocolate...or bread...or pizza...you know the mantra. Sad.