[Montignac] Question about leaving Atkins and doing Montignac

[suelarocco]

I was on Atkins, but decided to start with Montignac Method. I just received the book from Montignac "Eat & Lose Weight for Good". It tends to be a little confusing. Since I'm used to the Atikins way of eating I'm trying to go over to Montignac and I'm not sure I'm doing it correctly. I have eggs in the morning for breakfast, lunch usually tuna with celery and mayo or chicken with celery and mayo making it into a salad. Then dinner some kind of meat with a vegetable or salad. This seems to be the same way I was eating on Atkins. Am I doing Phase 1 correctly? Or am I missing something. I haven't finished reading the whole book yet, but just what I have read it seems that what I'm eating is ok. I'm still trying to figure out how to do the glycaemic index!

Any advice one can give will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Sue

[CalicoCat]

Hi Sue,

With Montignac, eggs in the morning are only once a week. The morning is time to have, muesli, bread, fruits, milk and yoghurt. Milk and yoghurt must be 0% fat, bread must fit Montignac’s standards. Try Spangs Favorite Museli (a couples of links below)you will love it! Your other meals look fine with me. You can have whole wheat pasta, rice or barley, 3 meals a week. The real headache is to buy the right kind (never the white stuff).

Welcome aboard!

CalicoCat

[KoKo]

Also remember that in phase 1 - even though bread is allowed it is still a limited item - and it should be restricted to the morning.

Montignac also prefers the method of eating a bigger mid-day meal and a smaller evening meal.

[Spang]

My muesli recipe is beoming urban legend! I must thank the New Glucose Revolution book for that, though

Welcome to Montignac, yes - it is slightly confusing, and it will take you a little while to figure out what works for you. I blame it on a bad translations from the native French, not just in the actual text, but also in the types of food - they tend to be very European-centric in the version I have, and a lot of my American friends have no idea what foods he is talking about!

To clarify the Gylcemic Index principles, I always refer people to http://www.mendosa.com/gi.htm

Another useful resource would be the New Glucose Revolution book - which helps to clear some of the mud away! This is the basis of the info that is on the mendosa site above.

In my history with Montiganc, I spent about 4 months or so on Phase 1 - when I cut out bread, most rice, most pasta, any refined foods, and any added sugars. I cooked mainly the Montiganc recipes

Then I gradually re introduced the higher GI, but low GL (something Montiganc only briefly touches on) foods.

Hope this helps
Spang

[suelarocco]

Thank you all for you quick responses and good information. I guess I'll muddle through all this and get to a good understanding eventually. I think from being on Atkins I'm afraid
of any carbs at all, so I have to re-think and start looking at the
Gylcemic Index and go to the mendosa site for help as well.

[KoKo]

Hi Sue

I know how scary it is to go from Atkins to a plan much higher in carbs the thing to remember is that its all GOOD CARBS - its not like you are going to have a white bread and jam sandwich, or off to MacDonalds for Big Mac and SuperSize Fries - with a fake milk milkshake - Big Difference. I find on Montignac my fibre intake is so high that right away you are reducing your ECC and the carb intake is not that high anyway - yes compared to Atkins it is especially if you are looking at induction level carbs. However compared to the average NorthAmerican diet it is still low carb - I totall mine up and seem to go between 80 and 140 carbs per day not at all high!!!

Also every day you will understand the plan a litte better, a lot of it is common sense :D

[suelarocco]

What about beans? Kidney, refried or pinto beans, are they acceptable food to eat during phase 1 or are they too high in carbs?

[KoKo]

Hi Sue

I needed to check this out for someone else, thanks for reminding me :D
Kidney beans are fine - for a 2/3 cup serving

23 on the GI
Glucose Load of 6

:D

Beans Beans The Musical Fruit ;)

[Spang]

I know it is a bit daunting as it is a little confusing

Feel free to ask any questions - there are a few of us die hard Montigancers here that post regularly.

Re Pinto beans GI about 40, GL of about 10 - probably best to wait until Phase 2 Montiganc, or eat in extreme moderation with lots of lower GI food.

As far as refried beans are concerned - personally I'd stay well away - far too much saturated fat in there. However, I can't find the stats for them anywhere.

Like Koko says - Montignac isn't a carb frenzy, but it isn't super restrictive either. You can eat your heart's content on the RIGHT carbs :)

The trick is finding out what the right carbs are!

Montiganc is more about eating a balanced diet that eliminates the requirement to take daily dietary suppliments - as you should be getting all you need naturally - except for Brewer's Yeast - a little bit of that on my favorite muesli won't hurt ;)

Spang

[eva123]

Thanks for the kidney beans Sue!!

I believe that most people here moved from Atkins to Montignac or Sugar Busters which introduce many more carbs, and, as mentioned above (below..??), is a way of getting a more balanced way of eating.

I think Atkins allows you to understand certain things and you can only arrive here much more educated about how your body works....

Not many people on this Forum but you guys are definitely full of wisdom. I wish to say that your input is really helpful. Thanks

Like you said, it is many more carbs, especially for someone like me who always maintained an Induction level, never really more than 20...

With Montignac, eggs in the morning are only once a week. The morning is time to have, muesli, bread, fruits, milk and yoghurt

Interestingly, I was always having eggs on Atkins. Is this not advised on Montignac because of the proteins?

The other funny thing, is I agree more with the idea that lunch should be your bigger meal. Atkins wanted emphasis on your evening meal.

Lastly, :rose: please excuse me but I won't be a word for word follower of Montignac. I will follow the principle but it will move between Montignac and Sugar Busters. Please, don't ban me from the forum.. :blush:

Ciao :wave:

[Spang]

Ahhhhh Eva... :blush:

We don't worry about you not following Montignac to the letter! I'm not sure if anyone here does ;) I certainly don't!

You are more than welcome to join in our rants!

As for eggs in the am... yikes - I have to brush up on my "strict Montignac rules"... I've forgotten - but it is probably the difference between lipid/protein and the "other type" recommendations.

Spang

[KoKo]

I want that man to make a personal appearance here and straighten things out!!!! There's way too much confusion.

I registered at his site and got the meal plans, I figured If I paid for 1 month it would be worth it to see what the official plan would be and that it might clarify some issues that were foggy....forget it I am more confused than ever.

I can't remember anything in the book about limiting eggs, I think that comes from the website. I had to return the book to the library(no big loss :D ) but I do remember that the book discourages eating bread on the weight loss phase of the diet. The meal plan I paid to get has bread for several breakfasts in the week. The Sunday breakfast on week 3 even has bread AND butter - where the heck does that come from??? that is a definite no no combination. week 3 is still a weight loss phase.

I still love it though :D

[suelarocco]

Still finding the GI and GL a little confusing. When you say you should have low GI does that automatically bring the GL lower. What do you look for low GI or low GL or does it go hand and hand. I hope I'm not confusing things, but I'm really trying to figure this out.

As for beans I do like to make my own refried without all the fat. All I do is take pinto beans add flavoring and cook really long than mash them with some cheese. But I guess I'll wait until I'm in Phase II.

[KoKo]

Each food has a GI and a GL does that help - or did you already know? Usually a food with a low GI has a low GL but there are some exceptions - don't ask me what!!!! The GL of a food with a high GI/GL can be lowered by pairing it with a food with a much lower GL but it is advisable to wait until you are in phase 2 to do this.

I looked again at the listings for beans, the GI's are so varied even for the same kind of bean!!!! I would think even if you left the fat out that they might be risky as you say you cook them for a really long time. Generally long cooking raises the GI/GL of a food as it makes the sugars more easily accessible to the blood (that is just my non-technical explanation - don't bet any money on it) :D

[Spang]

Ok - a little GI / GL clarification

Glycemic Index is the one that Montiganc says should be under 30 for Low GI and what you should limit yourself to in Phase 1.

In phase 2, it raises to about 50 as acceptable GI.

GI is the measure of the blood glucose (and therefore insulin response) level raise compared to the same amount of carbs in pure glucose GI = 100 (normally). Sometimes you will get different quotes for GI as:-

a) some people measure GI not comparative to pure glucose - I've seen some using white bread as a comparison. This will result in a different GI value

b) the blood glucose response is different from person to person, and sometimes different if different readings are taken from the same person. To limit these differences, a more reliable GI is an average of many readings (see the lists in New Glucose Revolution or on the Mendosa site as examples).

This is why you have to find out what works for you. You may just happen to be super sensitive to a food that is considered "ok" as it is Low GI - but you might just happen to process things a little differently.

GI measures the QUALITY of foods, not the quantity of carbs. A GI value tells you only how rapidly a particular carbohydrate turns into sugar. It doesn't tell you how much of that carbohydrate is in a serving of a particular food.

This is the basis of the Montignac Method.

However - Gylcemic Load is not just how much the blood glucose levels change, but also how much of the carb there is in an average serving. It is calculated thus:-
GI of a food x its carbohydrate content in grams = GL

A Low GL is considered to be about 10, a medium one of about 20, a high one of about 30.

still with me?

A GREAT food for weight loss on this principle would be low GI and low GL.

From Mendosa site:-
The glycemic load (GL) is a relatively new way to assess the impact of carbohydrate consumption that takes the glycemic index into account, but gives a fuller picture than does glycemic index alone. A GI value tells you only how rapidly a particular carbohydrate turns into sugar. It doesn’t tell you how much of that carbohydrate is in a serving of a particular food. You need to know both things to understand a food’s effect on blood sugar. That is where glycemic load comes in. The carbohydrate in watermelon, for example, has a high GI. But there isn’t a lot of it, so watermelon’s glycemic load is relatively low. A GL of 20 or more is high, a GL of 11 to 19 inclusive is medium, and a GL of 10 or less is low.

Foods that have a low GI invariably have a low GL, while foods with an intermediate or high GI range from very low to very high GL. Therefore, you can reduce the GL of your diet by limiting foods that have both a high GI and a high carbohydrate content.


When I started Montignac, I steered VERY clear of watermelon.
Its glycemic index is pretty high, about 72. According to the calculations by the people at the University of Sydney's Human Nutrition Unit, in a serving of 120 grams it has 6 grams of available carbohydrate per serving, so its glycemic load is pretty low, 72/100*6=4.32, rounded to 4. which is very low.

I hope this all makes some sense and isn't confusing you further. The good old mendosa site has very clear explanations of both GI and GL - along with about 750 foods measured (most have averages) for GI and GL.

I'll look into the egg thing when I get home and can refer to MM book.

As far as the refried beans goes - I'd still limit it, maybe to phase 2. Cooking the beans for a long time increases the gelatinzation - the process where carbs are broken down to be more digestible - but worse for you GI and GL wise. NGR has a good explanation of this too - will try and dig it out when I get home again!

Sorry for the long reply :rolleyes:
Spang

[KoKo]

I knew there was a reason I should've said ask Spang!!!

Spang you (and your muselieu) are the best :D

[Spang]

:blush:

Thanks koko

But most of my info is just from mendosa / new glucose revolution - just like that muesli ;) I just am cursed with one of those brains that says "I remember - it was here!" (except when looking for my keys, that is!)

Looking back at my post, I realized that I contradicted myself with the values of low / medium / hi G Loads are. They should be:-

High above 20
Medium between 10 and 20
Low 10 and below

Spang

[daneo52]

montignac wants us to limit our egg breakfasts, because that would be a protein, lipid meal. we are supposed to eat mainly those meals for the rest of the day, so for balance, we should have carb breakfasts. when we do have fatty breakfasts, he recommends carb dinners to balance it out.
plus i find if i have a busy day or exercise, the carb breakfast prepares me better, i feel better.

[firstclass]

Hi there,
Dont know if you rememer me, Spang, but I started back in January full of hope, then I stopped losing and gained back some so I ran away and hid for a bit - with a large supply of cadbury's cream eggs to keep me company....
Can I come back please? I'm going to try again.

KoKo, I too registered with the site and I agree the meal suggestions are SO confusing! They conflicted so much with the book. Also I cannot have a large midday meal - as a busy teacher with barely 45 minutes for my luch break during which time I also have to prepare my afternoon's lessons I just dont have the time. I emailed the site to ask for help on this and recieved no reply whatsover!!!

I have been rereading the book and I think I have a better idea of what it entails but as to whether it will work for me I dont know.

Mind, I may drop off again at Easter - the lure of the cream eggs is fatal!

Lynn-Marie

[KoKo]

OOOoooooohhhhh I love those Easter Cream Eggs, there is something that is even better than them - the Laura Secord Easter Egg - the middle is firmer than the cadbury's and I can't even think about them they are so good. My husband used to buy one for each of us every Easter and I would eat all mine in one day - He is such a hamster - he would keep his in the fridge (they are much bigger than a Cadbury Egg) and just cut a tiny piece for himself - (well of course I was carving off peices for MYSELF when he wasn't looking) finally I asked him to please not buy them anymore as I have absolutely no willpower where they are concerned. :o

I never got a reply from Montignac either I emailed re the "Cooked Cheese" question - I ended up doing a google search and also posted questions here about and got my answer. I hope I have no trouble unsubscribing - apparantley I have to hit the unsuscribe button or I will be billed another month!!!! I am going to make sure and hit that button a few days before my month is up - just to be sure.

Darn those eggs - they should be banned ;)

[Spang]

Of course I remember you, and of course you can come back!

I hear you with the creme egg problem, I got addicted to those a while ago, but my favorites were the little mini creme eggs ;)

A normal size one was always a little too much for me, and I'd feel sick if I finished it! But a couple of those mini ones was just right!

I'm sure they are on the Montignac site meal plans - we just need ot look hard enough ;)

well... maybe not! lol

Lynn Marie - my new favorite thing is the New Glucose Revolution - it is based on the same GI principles as Montignac, and a lot less confusing - you might want to give that a try instead.

Before anyone asks - I'm not linked to this book at all - I recieve no money or compensation from them! But maybe I should... hehehe

Spang

[LKFA]

Sprag this post finally brought some clarification on some questions I had. I'm a newbie and I've been reading all this low carb stuff for 4 days now and I felt like I was still doggie paddling! One last question for you though, If we are to keep to a GI of 30 in phase 1 on MM, what is the equivalent of this in GL points? I've been wondering how we could eat all we wanted on MM of low GI's without it all adding up to be a big amount. Am I making sense? Maybe it's my old Weight Watchers thinking coming out of me.

[Spang]

Welcome to the world of Low carb, LFKA!

Your question is valid, but I'm afraid it is impossible to answer.

The reason is, there is no direct connection between GI and GL values - which I know doesn't help you figure this all out.

On Montignac phase 1 when it tells you to stay below 30 GI, you should stay under GL of about 10.

On phase 2 Montiganc when it tells you to stay under 50 GI, you should stay under about GL 20.

So the trick is, finding the foods with both low GI and GL. www.mendosa.com has a good list of foods with GI and GL listings.

Now, just to complicate things a little further, personally I put more emphasis on the GL of food than GI. So I'm not really following Montiganc any more because of this.

Re your comment about eating a lot of low GI foods, just because they are low, and therefor ok for you... not really - The GI of a food won't change regards of how much you eat. This is because it is a value that a food is given relative to another food (commonly glucose) for the SAME AMOUNT of that food. So the GI value is based only on quality and not quantity. This is pretty much where Montignac finishes, and doesn't necessarily go far enough.

The Glycemic Load (GL) is a value that is based on both quality of the carbs you are eating (i.e. Glycemic index - or who your blood sugar level is raised for x grams of the food compared to x grams of glucose) AND the quantity of carbs in the serving.

So Glycemic Load = Gylcemic Index x the amount of carbs in the food.

I would recommend the "New Glucose Revolution : The Authoritative Guide to The Glycemic Index" by Jennie Brand Miller and others. This is what I follow now, and has quite simple to understand principles. This is the source of much of the information in the mendosa site I posted above.

Hope this helps!

Spang

[LKFA]

Thanks for answering Spang. I've been reading the New GI Revolution Book. A lot of it does make sense although I can see where it contradicts considerably with MM. So, with NGR, if the GL given the figure for only 1 serving of the food? Can we eat more than one serving and still lose weight? i.e. pasta, watermelon, etc. Lastly, if you don't mind me asking, have you lost any more weight on NGR? Do you know anyone who has lost a considerable amount of weight this way? I have more than 100 lbs to lose. I'm not looking for the fastest way to lose the weight but a permanent way to lose it.

[Spang]

Again, unfortunately not. I might have been a little unclear.

If you have the NGR book, I'll refer you to page 51, where it answers the question "Does the GI value increase with the serving size?" to save me typing it out.

Are you talking about just eating a huge amount of 1 food in 1 sitting that you know is low GL? Pasta - definitely not, it is relatively high GL and high GI. Watermelon... according to Montignac, no - it is really high GI, according to NGR - ok, it has high GI but low GL.

The problem with any eating plan that is based around the blood glucose level reaction, these tyoe of changes are not the same for everyone. You have to find what works for you.

I lost the majority of my weight with Montignac fairly quickly (about 30 lbs in about 3 months) and have maintained for about 9 or 10 months first using Montiganc and then I switched to NGR. The reason for my switch is I had become dissatisfied by Montignac's explanations and ratings - I believe more in the GL than the GI!

So, to answer your question, no, I don't know anyone who has lost weight on NGR. I would not know which plan to recommend over the other. Maybe give Montignac a go for about a month and see how it goes.

Montignac and NGR are based on the same principles. To me NGR is simpler to understand and far less contradictory with itself whereas Montignac seems less well written, contradicts itself, and just makes more sense.

[dina1957]

sorry, may be off the subject, but just few quick questions:
1) is it OK to have egg whites and either low cabr bran-a-crisp bread or slow cooked oatmeal for breakfast, meaning combining carbs and protein but no fat. or may be 0 fat yougurt or cottage cheese with the same bread or oatmeal?
2) doesn't eating fruit between meals means higher GL and GI. i check my blodd sugar after a fruit, and it is fine when i eat fruit after dinner with either nuts or some cheese but fruit alone spikes my blood sugar much higher. also, fruit for desert is fine blood sugar wise.
3) is food combining really important on Montignac or may be not so restrictive.
thanks,
dina

[Spang]

1) sounds fine to me, but probably not strict Montignac. Why just egg whites (just curious).
2) when you eat anything has no impact on GI or GL. They are scientific measurements. Although certain people react differently to different foods (which is hwy GI / GL can be tricky)
3) never bothered with the food combining when i was on Montiganc (and i did it for a good 6 months, lost all my weight, now adhere to GI / GL principles only).

[Spang]

btw - where in SF are you?! I'm in SF too! At last - a local here for me!

[dina1957]

Hi Spang:
I'm in Richmond district, outer part, across the Ocean Beach. You are probably in downtown, consider your trips to Rainbow store. ;)
i do more often farmer's market and trader joe's. i can stick to low GI but GL combined is too tricky. anyway, talk to you later, PM me if you want to talk about local stuff.
Thanks a lot,
Dina