My doctor & the Atkins' Diet

[Nutri-nut]

I went to my doctor's office today and while there, asked about the Atkins' Diet (I'm trying to lose weight). I was told that every single one of their patients who has tried the diet has, indeed, lost weight; however, EVERY single one of them had an increase in cholesterol (plus they gained all the weight back when they went off the diet).

I asked about those who swear their cholesterol was lowered after being on the diet (or maintaining the "Atkins way") and was told that they must have either already had a good cholesterol level or it's genetic.

Those who prescribe to this diet seem to rave about it for two reasons: They lost weight, which is good. And their cholesterol level is good even though they are indulging in foods that are typically on the no-no list for those trying to lower their cholesterol and/or triglyceride levels.

There are two points to be made. One, just because a person loses weight doesn't mean they have done so in a healthy manner (i.e., Fen Phen). Second, some people are genetically "blessed" with the ability to eat pretty much what they want and not be effected by the high fat/cholesterol content. This is obvious if you consider those individuals who do eat these kinds of unhealthy foods yet maintain normal cholesterol levels as opposed to those who do NOT eat unhealthy foods yet STILL cannot maintain a healthy cholesterol level without the aid of medication.

I don't think Atkins proponents seriously comprehend the role of genetics. And because of this, they insist fatty and cholesterol laden foods are not the culprits of obesity nor high cholesterol and triglyceride levels because eating unhealthy foods hasn't effected them in a negative manner. This is dangerous because many people out there (and I've read some messages from some of those right here) believe it will be OK for them, eat the no-no food, and end up in a worse cardiovascular situation.

This is the bottom line why Atkins can be dangerous: Those predisposed genetically to good health "no matter what" are not the model for those who are not so predisposed. And when a philosophy insists that good health advice (reduce high fat and cholesterol foods) is untrue, it puts people in danger when they disregard common sense and PROVEN facts for a plan that works for only a few.

If you are one of those blessed individuals who can eat all the foods we're told not to and still be healthy, more power to you. But please stop spreading the lie that this works for everyone and insist that if it doesn't, it must mean the person isn't "following" the plan correctly.

[pokey one]

Wondered where you had disappeared to.

Sorry to see the same tired, overused theories--only this time alleging the credibility of a dr. to support them.

How nice of the doctor to share mainstream (malpractice-safe) opinions. Saying it doesn't make it so. Did the dr. supply the facts upon which the opinion was based? "EVERY single one" could be 1 or 1,000--pretty vague, doncha think? Even doctors disagree about the best eating plans (Atkins, Schwarzbein, Eades, Heller, Berenstein--they're all medical doctors, too!).

Actually, cholesterol may rise for awhile (the good HDL version, that is) on low carb. But the good news is that the bad cholesterol, LDL, drops and so does the triglyceride level. What matters is that the proportions change for the better. I know several people for whom this is true, and they did not start with good levels, but they have good levels now.

Just stating that "EVERY single one of them had an increase in cholesterol" means very little, if anything at all, without knowing the HDL/LDL/triglyceride piece of the puzzle.

But please stop spreading the lie that this works for everyone and insist that if it doesn't, it must mean the person isn't "following" the plan correctly.

No plan works for everyone. Individuals tweak their way of eating to suit them and their health needs, body condition, exercise levels, and tastes. I've never see an experienced LCer ever state that this plan works for everyone.

Plenty of folks on this forum are proof positive that LCing does work. Where are the studies that prove it doesn't work? Oh, that's right, THERE AREN'T ANY! No matter how hard nutrition experts have tried to refute that low carbing works, the results keep turning up to prove that it does, much to their consternation! Biochemistry is biochemistry.

Who can argue (with a straight face, that is) that avoiding highly refined foods (white flour, potato chips, table sugar, white rice, etc.), using healthy fats (trans-fat-free olive oil, nuts, etc.), eating low GI fruits and eating LOTS of nutrient-dense vegetables is unhealthy? Oh yeah, and adequate amounts of protein.

BTW, it's not a diet--anyone who goes back to the way they used to eat will gain back their former weight--that's how they got there in the first place. Low carbing is a healthy way of eating for life. There's no going back!

[Nutri-nut]

My, you guys sure get defensive....and arrogant.

I do not believe that a majority opinion is the standard for truth. Having said that, I also don't believe that alternative thinking necessarily indicates truth either.

There is plenty of research that shows high fat/cholesterol diets are HARMFUL. You can deny and/or ignore it, but it won't go away.

And, yes, Atkins' proponents post their articles and studies that support their theory.

So where does that leave us?

Somewhere in between, perhaps.

And let's not ignore the role GENETICS plays in how a person's body reacts to food.

You said: "But the good news is that the bad cholesterol, LDL, drops and so does triglyceride levels." Not for everyone! I just stated that ALL of the patients my doctor has seen who have been on the Atkins diet (and lost weight) have had an INCREASE in their cholesterol and triglyceride levels. He was not referring to the "good" cholesterol level as those patients who saw the jump had to take medication to REDUCE it. You do not take medication to reduce good cholesterol.

The fact that you continue to state that this is a "healthy way to eat for life" proves how dangerous Atkins' propopents are. You sound cultic. And I'm sure NOTHING will change your mind. You believe what you WANT to believe because you like what you are doing.

End of story.

[pokey one]

Arrogant? Hardly. Knowledgeable? Definitely. Cult? Not very likely.

There is plenty of research that shows high fat/cholesterol diets are HARMFUL. You can deny and/or ignore it, but it won't go away.

Name one. Wait--of course, it has to be low carb, too, or it is absolutely irrelevant to any discussion of low carbing.

Of course, high fat/cholesterol/carbohydrate diets are harmful! No argument there. Otherwise we could all eat cake, ice cream, and potato chips with no worries.

Can't have it both ways.

[wcollier]

Hmmmmm..... would your doctor happen to be Neal Barnard? ;)

[lkonzelman]

You are giving this person too much power. There is no data to back this up.

My suggestion is to ignore this post. Have a good night all.

[Rosebud]

There is plenty of research that shows high fat/cholesterol diets are HARMFUL.
Yes, that is true.

But all of that research has the high fat/cholesterol diet combined with high carbs - as in starches and sugars.

However research showing that a diet high in fat and cholesterol but low in carbs is harmful, does not exist.

:rose:Rosebud:rose:

[Lisa N]

EVERY single one of them had an increase in cholesterol

Guess none of their patients were involved in the Duke study where ALL of the patients showed a decrease, not only in total cholesterol, but also in triglycerides and LDL with an increase in HDL. They must also have some pretty good memories (or very few patients) if they can remember which ones ever followed a low carb diet, what their lab results were and how many of them gained the weight back. You might also want to ask your doctor how long these patients were on low carb and how fast they were losing weight. When your body metabolises fat, it has to get into your bloodstream to be moved to the cells where the metabolism takes place. It's actually not that unusual for cholesterol to go up temporarily when weight loss using any method is fast, but it returns to pre-dieting levels (or lower) when weight loss slows down, at least on low carb. Those that continue to have an elevated cholesterol have something else going on which could include a sensitivity to arachidonic acid in which case, it's still not the fat that's causing a problem, it's a totally unrelated substance that they are sensitive to.


plus they gained all the weight back when they went off the diet

Hmmm...ask you doctor what happens when his patients go off the low fat diet. It's not exactly astounding medical knowledge that if you go off ANY diet and return to your old eating habits, the weight will come back. Hello! If you go back to eating the way that made you fat in the first place, you'll only get fat again. In other words, if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got.


Second, some people are genetically "blessed" with the ability to eat pretty much what they want and not be effected by the high fat/cholesterol content.

Really?? Then please ask your doctor to explain how I could have high cholesterol on a low fat diet (229 with triglycerides in the 300's) and have a much better cholesterol eating like this (177 with triglycerides of 125).


I don't think Atkins proponents seriously comprehend the role of genetics

Actually, I think we understand it better than those who created the infamous food pyramid. Man did not evolve eating significant amounts of grains and processed carbs. Man evolved his big brain eating primarily meat and fats along with whatever seeds, nuts, berries and vegetable matter he could gather and store during the months when they were not available. Grains have only be cultivated and part of the human diet in any significant way for the last 10,000 years or so...merely a blip on our evolutionary journey and not nearly enough time evolution-wise for our genes to adapt to such a diet. Interestingly enough, the Egyptians ate a diet very similar to the recommended food pyramid, so you'd expect them to be slim with a low incidence of heart disease, right? Yet when the mummies are examined, they find a high rate of tooth decay, obesity and arteries plugged with heart disease.

please stop spreading the lie that this works for everyone and insist that if it doesn't, it must mean the person isn't "following" the plan correctly.


I don't think you'll find many people here who claim that this works for everyone, including me, but I will say that I believe that every diabetic should be on this plan if they wish to live longer, unless, of course, they happen to enjoy taking pills, injecting insulin and eventually developing complications from diabetes. There are a few (very few) who don't do well on a low carb regime and there are some who should not follow it at all, such as those with kidney disease. There are also some lucky people who seem to be able to eat all the carbs that they like and remain slim, although remaining healthy would be up for debate. Slim people have heart attacks and strokes too. They also develop RA (linked to grains) leaky gut syndrome (linked to grains) and IBS (also linked to grains). But I also doubt that you'll find many medical professionals who won't agree that we would all be a lot healthier if we cut out most of the highly processed carbs, corn syrup, sugar and hydrogenated fats that most of the world is consuming and stuck to less processed foods in their natural state, ate more veggies and elimiated junk food (which can only loosely be defined as food) which would be what maintainance on low carb is all about.


eating unhealthy foods hasn't effected them in a negative manner

Not only has it not affected me in an unhealthy manner, and a lot of other people here, too, it was eating the foods that were thought to be "healthy" that was affecting me in a negative manner with high blood sugar, high blood pressure and high cholesterol. Only when I stopped eating them or cut back on them drastically, did things return to normal levels again.

[Lisa N]

Originally posted by Nutri-nut
You do not take medication to reduce good cholesterol.

Guess you haven't read about the recommendation that those with normal cholesterol levels but other "risk" factors such as family history or being overweight, take cholesterol-lowering statin drugs.

BTW...fats don't make triglycerides go up, sugar and processed carbs do...oh...and alcoholism.

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by Nutri-nut
I was told that every single one of their patients who has tried the diet has, indeed, lost weight; however, EVERY single one of them had an increase in cholesterol (plus they gained all the weight back when they went off the diet).

I asked about those who swear their cholesterol was lowered after being on the diet (or maintaining the "Atkins way") and was told that they must have either already had a good cholesterol level or it's genetic.

There are two points to be made. One, just because a person loses weight doesn't mean they have done so in a healthy manner (i.e., Fen Phen). Second, some people are genetically "blessed" with the ability to eat pretty much what they want and not be effected by the high fat/cholesterol content.

I don't think Atkins proponents seriously comprehend the role of genetics. And because of this, they insist fatty and cholesterol laden foods are not the culprits of obesity nor high cholesterol and triglyceride levels because eating unhealthy foods hasn't effected them in a negative manner.

Haven't you heard that while all generalizations may not be bad they certainly aren't good and can be quite harmful ? They also cannot be proven, otherwise you'd be bombarding us with the proof instead of making sweeping generalizations about something that clearly has you upset and has undermined your ability argue rationally.

Nat

[PoofieD]

My, you guys sure get defensive....and arrogant.

I do not believe that a majority opinion is the standard for truth. Having said that, I also don't believe that alternative thinking necessarily indicates truth either.




What exactly is it that your doing here??
I don't get it.
YOU DON'T have to do this!
Nobody here is forcing it on you!
But we ARE not going to be following you or your Dr..
what is it exactly that offends you about US and our chosen way of eating?
What is it with you that you dont' find a board with YOUR views being expressed and be there posting there about being positive instead of antagonzing others??
what does it get you?
WE aren't listening to you. You aren't God for us.
Okay?
Live your life, Live well and prosper.. but find something positive for yourself.

[deb_o]

BTW- high cholesterol runs in both sides of my family. Before going on Atkins, my number was in the high 200's. It did go up a bit at first, but now is below 200. Genetics? I don't think so!

[pegm]

My husband's cholesterol was climbing despite being on Lipitor. Also, after age 40, he also had gained a lot of weight -- most of it in his stomach. He was diligently following low fat eating -- very lean meats, no added fats, etc. and was snacking on fat free pretzels and other fat free sweets (candies, etc.), but his cholesterol and weight continued to worsen. He was always hungry, always eating, and never satisfied. He had no energy.

His doctor did not really support his going on Atkins, but he tried it anyway and lost 40 pounds and was off the cholesterol meds after 4 months. Here he is one year later, still 40 pounds lighter, and still off the cholesterol meds. His last test was the best ever -- the doctor was very impressed!

I am not saying that it works that way for everyone, but I do know that my husband's cholesterol improved greatly on Atkins -- so much so that he no longer needs medication. He also has maintained the weight -- he eats lots of veggies and fruits, some whole grain bread and pasta, and, yes, he does eat eggs, some steak and uses mayo and full fat dressings. So, please don't say that Atkins does not work for anyone -- it did work for my husband.

[jessea]

Nutri-Nut, since you are calling yourself a nutrition nut, let's hear some things from you:

What nutritionally based books have you read?

What do you consider a healthy way of eating?

Do you have any scientific and/or medical background?

Just curious. Since you like to debate, let's hear what you are basing your arguments on.

-Jess

[wcollier]

Originally posted by PoofieD
What exactly is it that your doing here??
I don't get it.


Hi Poofie:

NutriNut is on a mission. Every study she has posted on this board has been from Neal Barnard's radically vegetarian PCRM site. And she accuses us of arrogance....

She hasn't even read one LC book on which to base her opinions.

Wanda

[Lisa N]

The funny thing is we have Vegetarian low carbers here and a forum for those who wish to follow low carb in a vegetarian way. Low carbing and being vegetarian or vegan aren't necessarily mutually exclusive of each other.
I personally happen to enjoy being an omnivore, but if meat isn't your thing you can still be a successful low carber.
I do find myself wondering what would motivate someone to obviously spend so much time and effort focusing on proving a way of eating to be unhealthy and to come to a forum that supports low carb to specifically argue against it in the face of so many people who are obviously doing well/thriving on this WOL.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and is free to express it in a respectful way, but I don't go around preaching low carb to my low fat friends, co-workers and family. If they ask, fine, but I'm not trying to convert anyone. This works well for me and for a lot of other people too. If you can lose weight, feel good and stay healthy on low fat...go for it, but that doesn't make the rest of us wrong, especially when a lot of us have already tried that route and found that it's not the way for us.

[wcollier]

Lisa, thanks for bringing this up b/c I started thinking about it after I posted.

I was a vegetarian for 17 years, and not once did I tell anyone else how they should live their lives. Now I am an onmivore and still don't tell others how they should live their lives.

It's about respecting individuality.

Wanda

[Alina]

I do find myself wondering what would motivate someone to obviously spend so much time and effort focusing on proving a way of eating to be unhealthy and to come to a forum that supports low carb to specifically argue against it in the face of so many people who are obviously doing well/thriving on this WOL.

I keep wondering why some people have this urgent need to tell others how they should live their lives?
There are so many ways to hurt/try to hurt someone.
I've recently moved from Sweden to Germany where my husband got a great job but so far I haven't found any "real work", with salary..you know what I mean. I always worked before.
I take care of the household, reed tons of books, learn german, travel...etc. I have a life.
To the point: I am frequently harrassed by "working" people, asking stupid question, trying to hurt me, trying to tell me how miserable my life is.
"Oh, what do you do all day?"
"Since you have sooo much spare time, could you bake my favourite swedish cakes for me?" *true*
"Don't you feel useless not having a job?"

And now someone wants to put me down about lowcarbing.
The answer is: Get of my life, find your own!

Alina

[tigersue]

Okay so your doctor tells you one thing,
My doctor said, Go LC, he told me to research, find what was best for me and let him know. When I went to see him 4 months later I lost 17 more pounds, the fastest I ever lost, my Insulin level was 9, and my cholesterol levels were great.
Tanya

[dannysk]

This is from an educational website, basic metabolism course, unrelated to weight or diets. Reading it carefully you will discover that carbs (insulin) are responsible for high production of cholesterol..

http://www.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/cholesterol.html#introduction

Since the intracellular level of cAMP is regulated by hormonal stimuli, regulation of cholesterol biosynthesis is hormonally controlled. Insulin leads to a decrease in cAMP, which in turn activates cholesterol synthesis. Alternatively, glucagon and epinephrine, which increase the level of cAMP, inhibit cholesterol synthesis.
The ability of insulin to stimulate, and glucagon to inhibit, HMG-CoA reductase activity is consistent with the effects of these hormones on other metabolic pathways. The basic function of these two hormones is to control the availability and delivery of energy to all cells of the body.
Long-term control of HMG-CoA reductase activity is exerted primarily through control over the synthesis and degradation of the enzyme. When levels of cholesterol are high, the level of expression of the HMG-CoA reductase gene is reduced. Conversely, reduced levels of cholesterol activate expression of the gene. Insulin also brings about long-term regulation of cholesterol metabolism by increasing the level of HMG-CoA reductase synthesis. The rate of HMG-CoA turn-over is also regulated by the supply of cholesterol. When cholesterol is abundant, the rate of HMG-CoA reductase degradation increases.



danny

[HerbNurse]

It's so sad that some people purposely set out to be just down right nasty. I agree with Ikonzelman no need for us to give this person that much power as they are obviously misinformed to say the least.

HN

[LadyBug555]

and just call her NUT!

Yes I get discouraged but I did get discouraged also after two years paying out the wallet and starving on Weight Watchers while I lost 25 lbs. I got off of it and gained back 18 in three months!
My husband has a BIG family with a BIG history of heart disease. He has lost 5 of his 9 siblings. He had been on Blood Pressure and Cholesterol meds for three years. The numbers did NOT go down, all the meds did was make him tired and tax his liver. The CARDIOLOGIST said "thumbs up" on the Atkins diet for the reasons of Cholesterol and BP. And guess what? After only a few months, the numbers are G R E A T and he has been OFF his meds with a 20 lb. weight loss as a bonus.
So butt out Buckwheat and go eat your wild hickory nuts.

[doreen T]

Just a reminder to all to please remember the "No Flames" rule. While it's fine to debate and point out the flaws in another person's arguments pro or con, it's not acceptable to resort to direct personal insults.

Please review the Sticky thread at the top of this forum, titled "The War Zone. Please read before posting here.", and also the Forum Rules, which you can find from the Quick Links column to the right of the page.

thanks,

Doreen

[freydis]

All I know is this:

I have the paperwork from my last three lipid profiles. One was from January of 2002, before I began Atkins (in March). One is from September of 2002 and another from November 2002.

My January paperwork is the worst lipid profile of the three. By September, my triglycerides had dropped over 150 points. Since I am a heart patient, this was a critical improvement - see the book Syndrome X for explanation.

By November, my whole profile was even better than before and my doctor had joined me on the Atkins diet.

First hand experience, while it may only apply to myself, is proof enough that the diet works for me.

[Nebbia]

I've tried the whole grain low fat route and in one year I lost 26 pounds it's true, but then I started gaining again. I then decided to try Atkins not only have I started to lose again but in the 5 weeks I've been on it I have had no symptons of IBS and my blood pressure has come down. For the first time in 40 years I have gone 5 weeks without some kind of abdominal discomfort. I am quite happy for you to follow the WOE of your choice, but I have never felt so well and no way would I go off the Atkins. If we low carbers are so convinced in the low carb way there is a reason. Go and rant on a nutri nut board I for one am not interested.

[Nutri-nut]

A couple of points:

Blood pressure and cholesterol levels can be lowered by losing weight. So it is not accurate to claim that the reduction in these levels is due to eating lower carbs. It's a result of losing weight.

I have been doing research on low-carb eating and am reading "Atkins for Life."

I have been eating low-carb for several weeks now. The weight is not falling off, but I do feel better overall. I had blood drawn Friday to check my cholesterol, so that should be interesting. I will report back with the results.

Gaining weight back after dieting is not unique to any specific type of "diet" plan. It happens because people start eating more calories than they are burning.

I am NOT "putting down" eating low carb. I'm doing it myself (unless it proves more harmful in time). What concerns me is the cultic attitude of some who aren't even OPEN to discussion or considering ALL the information and research. I am researching and reading, so I am keeping my mind open. Are you?

And....I have studied biology, and I know that genetics plays a HUGE role in how our bodies metabolize food. To deny that is simply ignorance.

[Nebbia]

It isn't the dieters who deny a genetic link, it's the medics. I don't know in the USA but in Britain one hears, 'If a family is overweight they eat too much'. 'It is nothing to do with metabolism, it's over-eating'. 'It doen't matter how little you THINK you eat, you must eat LESS to lose weight'. 'It's a matter of arithmetic, you must consume more calories than you eat to lose weight'. I could go on but do not want to bore you!
I know that I don't process carbohydates like my brother does. At 60 he the same size that he was at 20 and has a diet very high in carbohydrates. I take after my paternal grandmother.
We low carbers know that genetics are involved but we also know that low carbohydrate, with unlimited fat and protein works for us. I do not consider myself a fanatic, after 40 years of battling with my weight I know what works for me. I get annoyed when I'm told that the way I eat, which keeps me well, and my weight down is not healthy. It has been proved that millions on diets like that Atkins are much healthier.

[Nutri-nut]

I don't know which medics you are referring to, but the latest studies indicate a link between genetics and weight. It's the reason why my tooth-pick friend can consume more calories than I do, not exercise, and yet stay very thin while I eat much less than she does, exercise, and am not half as thin as she is. Obviously, it's not SOLELY an issue of "eating more calories than you burn."

I may agree that a low carb diet helps reduce weight (although it's not doing much for me right now); however, to suggest that eating fat is actually good for you is another story. I have read studies and reports that say just the opposite. Furthermore, no long-term studies have been done on those who eat low-carb, high protein and high fat diets. So we do not know what the long-term effects are.

If you are losing or maintaining your weight and have good blood pressure, cholesterol, and lipid levels, then whatever you are doing IS healthy. However, that doesn't mean it will be a healthy way of life for everyone else. That is my main argument with some on this board. There seems to be this attitude that it's a fact that healthy eating for everyone includes a diet of high fat/protein and low carbs.

[Nebbia]

You just have to read through the post on any low carb forum to see that people are doing fine for long periods on low carb. I have read about people who have been on the diet for 18 years and are healthy. As I have said to you before, some people stay well on the whole food vegetarian path and others do well on Atkins. A greek doctor many hundreds of years ago said 'one man's meat is another man's poison'. Nobody seems to be trying to force their ideas on anyone except you. I think it is a fact that you can find scientific studies to back up nearly anything. The medics I refer to are the mainstream British medical opinion. However even the British have had their ground breakers and I refer you to a book first written in 1958 by Dr Richard Markarness 'Eat Fat and Grow Slim'. It is on line. He opened the first Obesity clinic in England and also did some of the first research in how the food we eat can affect the mind. Ref. 'Not All in the Mind'. I agree that loosing weight can cause the blood pressure to go down, but first of all you have to use it and the fact remains, for the first time in 40 years, many spent on a low fat, whole food vegetarian diet, I do not suffer from any symptoms of IBS.

[Nutri-nut]

Reading about the long-term experiences of some dieters on a web site isn't scientific.

And I'm not sure how you can claim I'm trying to force my views on anyone.

Whatever.

[JudyAnn]

I may agree that a low carb diet helps reduce weight (although it's not doing much for me right now); however, to suggest that eating fat is actually good for you is another story. I have read studies and reports that say just the opposite.

Here's some info that you may find interesting.

http://www.westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/know_your_fats.html

[Pat S.]

Hello Nutri-nut,
I have a new Dr. who was a Chemist before he became an Internist and moved to our little Coastal town. He did research on dieting of all kinds but was drawn to Low-Carb. In his years of research he found the best and only way to stay healthy with lowered Cholesterol was the Lowcarb WOL. I feel very fortunate to have found him. Pat S.

[Nutri-nut]

Judy - I use butter and olive oil, but I also use canola oil as I had read that this oil is preferable. I'm surprised coconut oil is on the "good" list. I've always heard it's one of the worst fats for you along with palm kernal oil.

Pat - If low-carb is the only way to "stay healthy and lower cholesterol," why did my bad cholesterol go up and the good go down???

[Lisa N]

You might find this quote from Protein Power by Dan and Mary Eades, MD to be helpful:

I’ve been on the plan for awhile and feel better than I ever have. I’ve lost weight, my blood pressure is down and my sugar levels are now normal. My most recent lab tests show that my cholesterol and LDL went up. What am I doing wrong?


First of all, be aware that you are not doing anything wrong. The most consistent finding after people go on our program is that triglycerides drop and HDL, the "good" cholesterol increases. This indicates that your insulin levels have dropped and you have stopped converting excess amounts of sugar into fats as trigylcerides. Cholesterol is a number that is composed of both good and bad fractions, therefore we don’t tend to track it nearly as close as more specific levels of HDL, triglycerides and LDL. LDL cholesterol is made up of different particles that vary from person to person. Depending on the type of particles that predominate, one is said to have either pattern A or pattern B. With pattern A, the LDL is light, fluffy, and relatively large. This pattern is actually thought to be beneficial. With pattern B, the molecule is heavy, dense, and relatively small. This pattern is thought to be detrimental. Pattern B is a partial consequence of excessively elevated triglycerides. When triglycerides go down after the Protein Power Plan has been adopted, a phenomenon called the "beta shift" occurs where LDL is transformed into pattern A. So, paradoxically, even though the level of LDL appears to increase, the type of LDL that is being formed is usually much healthier. The difficult part is that the lab testing to determine your levels of LDL "A" and LDL "B" can only be done in a research laboratory with electrophoresis methods. While we cannot be 100% certain that this is what happened in your case, the research strongly supports this view.

The most important thing is to look at the overall picture. With the Protein Power approach we look at the triglyceride/HDL ratio as one of the best measurements of risk for heart disease. An upper limit of 5 is considered desirable, with anything over that indicating an increased risk. Some measures to help bring down your cholesterol and LDL levels are: stay on the plan (some people panic and feel that the plan is causing the opposite effect), take a "no-flush" niacin 500 mg 2-3 capsules per day, increase your fiber intake with perhaps psyllium seed powder-1-2 TBS mixed in water per day.


If you haven't read Protein Power, you might want to pick up a copy of the book or borrow it from the Library; they do an excellent job of explaining things like the above as well as an excellent job of explaining the complex hormone changes that occur in our bodies when we eat and how they all work together or against each other depending on how you are eating.

[dfletcher]

this is a LC website. You obviously have way to much time onyour hands if you can write a 10 page essay on the subject.

Get a life, preferable one somewhere away from here!

[Nutri-nut]

Lisa, Thanks for the information. I feel better after having read your message.

As for DFletcher's response, I have no clue who this person is responding to. It doesn't seem to have any relevance to the thread at all.

?????

[Lisa N]

Originally posted by dfletcher
this is a LC website. You obviously have way to much time onyour hands if you can write a 10 page essay on the subject.

Get a life, preferable one somewhere away from here!

Diane...

While healthy, polite debate regarding the merits of low carb is welcomed in this part of the forum (the War Zone was created specifically for this purpose), we encourage people to debate without resorting to insults or flames. One warning has already been given earlier in this thread. Disagreement is fine, but please do so respectfully. Thanks! :)

[Aprilellen]

Nutra nut just go back to the rock that you crawled out from under and eat what you want we like this way of life it is helping us we dont want to be you or think like you we do have a freedom of choice in this country!!! Aprilellen