omega6/3 balance

[Whitememph]

recently read a Sears book where he recommends a very low
intake of omega 6, round 3mg/wk! with high intake of omega 3
in the form of fish in the diet and fish oil capsules. what do
ppl think of this? thanx any comment

[Alf Christ]

On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:06:58 +1100, "whiteMemphis"
<loom@alphalink.com.au> wrote:

>recently read a Sears book where he recommends a very low
>intake of omega 6, round 3mg/wk! with high intake of omega 3
>in the form of fish in the diet and fish oil capsules. what
>do ppl think of this? thanx any comment

With 3 mg a week, you will suffer by severe essential oil
deficiency rather quick. You will first get skin diseases
looking like excema then it will continue to develope in
other ways.

[Marcio Wat]

Alf Christophersen <alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no> wrote:

>On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:06:58 +1100, "whiteMemphis"
><loom@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
>
>>recently read a Sears book where he recommends a very low
>>intake of omega 6, round 3mg/wk! with high intake of omega 3
>>in the form of fish in the diet and fish oil capsules. what
>>do ppl think of this? thanx any comment
>
>With 3 mg a week, you will suffer by severe essential oil
>deficiency rather quick. You will first get skin diseases
>looking like excema then it will continue to develope in
>other ways.

I'm pretty sure that the poster misinterpreted what he read.
Sears diet relies heavily on consumption of olive oil which
is about 8% LA, so it's not possible to have such a low
intake of omega-6.

--
Marcio Watanabe

[Moosh:)]

On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:53:30 +0100, Alf Christophersen
<alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no> wrote:

>On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:06:58 +1100, "whiteMemphis"
><loom@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
>
>>recently read a Sears book where he recommends a very low
>>intake of omega 6, round 3mg/wk! with high intake of omega 3
>>in the form of fish in the diet and fish oil capsules. what
>>do ppl think of this? thanx any comment
>
>With 3 mg a week, you will suffer by severe essential oil
>deficiency rather quick. You will first get skin diseases
>looking like excema then it will continue to develope in
>other ways.

Have you a reference for this, Alf? I read that you won't have
problems so long as you get 3mg per annum of linoleic acid.

Moosh:)

[Brandon Be]

"Moosh:)" <ZZ@ZZ.ZZ> wrote in message
news:eklo5v0b7it7mq546tqfe2n00hdg6l9nop@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:53:30 +0100, Alf Christophersen
> <alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:06:58 +1100, "whiteMemphis"
> ><loom@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
> >
> >>recently read a Sears book where he recommends a very low
> >>intake of
omega 6,
> >>round 3mg/wk! with high intake of omega 3 in the form of
> >>fish in the
diet
> >>and fish oil capsules. what do ppl think of this? thanx
> >>any comment
> >
> >With 3 mg a week, you will suffer by severe essential oil
> >deficiency rather quick. You will first get skin diseases
> >looking like excema then it will continue to develope in
> >other ways.
>
> Have you a reference for this, Alf? I read that you won't
> have problems so long as you get 3mg per annum of
> linoleic acid.

I find that rather implausible, but it's not really a testable
hypothesis for humans, because no one consumes that little LA.
Almost all foods contain at least a little bit, so unless
you're living on gelatin, it's virtually impossible to avoid
getting at least a few hundred mg per day on an eucaloric
diet. You'd probably have to plan pretty carefully to get
below 3g per day.

[Moosh:)]

On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:10:53 GMT, "Brandon Berg"
<bberg@cesmail.net> wrote:

>
>"Moosh:)" <ZZ@ZZ.ZZ> wrote in message
>news:eklo5v0b7it7mq546tqfe2n00hdg6l9nop@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:53:30 +0100, Alf Christophersen
>> <alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:06:58 +1100, "whiteMemphis"
>> ><loom@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
>> >
>> >>recently read a Sears book where he recommends a very low
>> >>intake of
>omega 6,
>> >>round 3mg/wk! with high intake of omega 3 in the form of
>> >>fish in the
>diet
>> >>and fish oil capsules. what do ppl think of this? thanx
>> >>any comment
>> >
>> >With 3 mg a week, you will suffer by severe essential oil
>> >deficiency rather quick. You will first get skin diseases
>> >looking like excema then it will continue to develope in
>> >other ways.
>>
>> Have you a reference for this, Alf? I read that you won't
>> have problems so long as you get 3mg per annum of
>> linoleic acid.
>
>I find that rather implausible, but it's not really a
>testable hypothesis for humans, because no one consumes that
>little LA. Almost all foods contain at least a little bit, so
>unless you're living on gelatin, it's virtually impossible to
>avoid getting at least a few hundred mg per day on an
>eucaloric diet. You'd probably have to plan pretty carefully
>to get below 3g per day.

Yep. so it's a rather academic argument. They have apparently
measured linoleic acid stores and then given none for a year
and found that half the stores were still there. But they
probably snuck a little under the tent flap :)

Moosh:)

[Brad Shepp]

Dr. Willett mentioned this in his book "Eat,Drink, and Be
Healthy". His research shows it has no merit.

"whiteMemphis" <loom@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message
news:<3e5ab3de$1@news.alphalink.com.au>...
> recently read a Sears book where he recommends a very low
> intake of omega 6, round 3mg/wk! with high intake of omega 3
> in the form of fish in the diet and fish oil capsules. what
> do ppl think of this? thanx any comment

[Alf Christ]

On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 05:52:39 GMT, "Moosh:)" <ZZ@ZZ.ZZ> wrote:

>Have you a reference for this, Alf? I read that you won't
>have problems so long as you get 3mg per annum of
>linoleic acid.

The RDA was a while ago 5 g daily.

[Alf Christ]

On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:10:53 GMT, "Brandon Berg"
<bberg@cesmail.net> wrote:

>I find that rather implausible, but it's not really a
>testable hypothesis for humans, because no one consumes that
>little LA. Almost all foods contain at least a little bit, so
>unless you're living on gelatin, it's virtually impossible to
>avoid getting at least a few hundred mg per day on an
>eucaloric diet. You'd probably have to plan pretty carefully
>to get below 3g per day.

There are plenty of references on essential oil
deficiencies. And it has been very common in developing
countries, like India.

A former coworker of me (now retired) worked on that topic for
almost all his time as a nutrition researcher.

Once key diagnostics is exchange of omega-6 acids by omega-9
in cell membranes (omega-9 is the monounsatured fats that man
can produce by its own liver, but is also a main ingredient
in olive oil. By giving C-13 marked saturated fats in diet, a
fraction of it will end up as omega-9, and the more of it,
the less omega-6 and omega-3 is in diet because these will
compete with omega-9 fats in order to be elongated and
desaturated (in omega-9 acids, the omega6 and omega3
desaturated links are lacking)

[Moosh:)]

On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:56:24 +0100, Alf Christophersen
<alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no> wrote:

>On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 05:52:39 GMT, "Moosh:)" <ZZ@ZZ.ZZ> wrote:
>
>>Have you a reference for this, Alf? I read that you won't
>>have problems so long as you get 3mg per annum of
>>linoleic acid.
>
>The RDA was a while ago 5 g daily.

Recommended to avoid deficiency symptoms, or recommended to
skew unhealthy body fat ratios in the overfed, underexercised
Westerners?

With a varied, wholefood, eucaloric diet, and moderate
regular exercise, you don't need to worry about any of this
nonsense :)

Moosh:)

[Moosh:)]

On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:56:25 +0100, Alf Christophersen
<alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no> wrote:

>On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:10:53 GMT, "Brandon Berg"
><bberg@cesmail.net> wrote:
>
>>I find that rather implausible, but it's not really a
>>testable hypothesis for humans, because no one consumes that
>>little LA. Almost all foods contain at least a little bit,
>>so unless you're living on gelatin, it's virtually
>>impossible to avoid getting at least a few hundred mg per
>>day on an eucaloric diet. You'd probably have to plan pretty
>>carefully to get below 3g per day.
>
>There are plenty of references on essential oil
>deficiencies. And it has been very common in developing
>countries, like India.

More details? What were the deficiency symptoms, and what was
the cause of this deficiency?

Moosh:)

[Alf Christ]

On Sun, 02 Mar 2003 12:59:31 GMT, "Moosh:)" <ZZ@ZZ.ZZ> wrote:

>With a varied, wholefood, eucaloric diet, and moderate
>regular exercise, you don't need to worry about any of this
>nonsense :)

Nonsense in only 1/3 of worlds population (but who uses more
than 95% of all food available in world) In starving
populations (today about 50% of all populations), these are
real matters :-(

[Alf Christ]

On Sun, 02 Mar 2003 13:00:07 GMT, "Moosh:)" <ZZ@ZZ.ZZ> wrote:

>More details? What were the deficiency symptoms, and what was
>the cause of this deficiency?

It is many years since I talked about these matters with my
colleague, but skin diseases are symptomatic. And it comes
from diet extremely high in carbohydrates and virtually free
of fats, as with poor people in India living more or less on
tubers. Adding some fat in diet rich in omega-6 or applying
lard on the sores almost immediately relieves the symptoms.

[Moosh:)]

On Sun, 02 Mar 2003 17:14:54 +0100, Alf Christophersen
<alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no> wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Mar 2003 12:59:31 GMT, "Moosh:)" <ZZ@ZZ.ZZ> wrote:
>
>>With a varied, wholefood, eucaloric diet, and moderate
>>regular exercise, you don't need to worry about any of this
>>nonsense :)
>
>Nonsense in only 1/3 of worlds population (but who uses more
>than 95% of all food available in world) In starving
>populations (today about 50% of all populations), these are
>real matters :-(

Quite likely.

Makes the whingers from the First World look stupid IMHO.

Moosh:)

[Moosh:)]

On Sun, 02 Mar 2003 17:14:53 +0100, Alf Christophersen
<alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no> wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Mar 2003 13:00:07 GMT, "Moosh:)" <ZZ@ZZ.ZZ> wrote:
>
>>More details? What were the deficiency symptoms, and what
>>was the cause of this deficiency?
>
>It is many years since I talked about these matters with my
>colleague, but skin diseases are symptomatic. And it comes
>from diet extremely high in carbohydrates and virtually free
>of fats, as with poor people in India living more or less on
>tubers. Adding some fat in diet rich in omega-6 or applying
>lard on the sores almost immediately relieves the symptoms.

Umm, are you sure this isn't protein deficiency? And maybe
some vitamins?

Moosh:)

[Alf Christ]

On Sat, 08 Mar 2003 10:02:13 GMT, "Moosh:)" <ZZ@ZZ.ZZ> wrote:

>Umm, are you sure this isn't protein deficiency? And maybe
>some vitamins?

Protein deficiency??? What the heck are you babbling about??

[Moosh:)]

On Sat, 08 Mar 2003 19:26:04 +0100, Alf Christophersen
<alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no> wrote:

>On Sat, 08 Mar 2003 10:02:13 GMT, "Moosh:)" <ZZ@ZZ.ZZ> wrote:
>
>>Umm, are you sure this isn't protein deficiency? And maybe
>>some vitamins?
>
>Protein deficiency??? What the heck are you babbling about??

You are attributing the skin problems of starving Indians to
fat lack. Might these symptoms not be due to protein
deficiency (and energy deficiency) ? Sounds more likely to me.

Moosh:)

[Alf Christ]

On Mon, 10 Mar 2003 03:50:45 GMT, "Moosh:)" <ZZ@ZZ.ZZ> wrote:

>You are attributing the skin problems of starving
>Indians to fat lack. Might these symptoms not be due to
>protein deficiency (and energy deficiency) ? Sounds more
>likely to me.

Well, just smearing PUFA on the skin relieves the problems in
many cases, and giving them PUFA orally do the same. Giving
more protein do nothing.

Maybe you should read Shiles & Young's books on nutrition in
human health and diseases. Or do a search on essential fatty
acid deficiency.