[Montignac] really want to return!!

[daneo52]

the only diet that seems to have worked for me for the last couple of years is low carb. but i hate the food on atkins plan, i like carbs for breakfast. so i tried montignac last year and was amazed how quickly and easily i made goal. i still drank lots of wine and coffee, and ate huge portions. i got careless and had sugar binges, then got back on, and cylced like this for the rest of the year. now one year later, i am a few kgs more than i started with no muscle tone left, and the method doesnt seem to work for me anymore. even if i stay strict, the scales will not budge. i am so frustrated and angry with myself. why did i not stay true to the one plan that worked so well and made me feel so good.
can someone please help me? my regular day on montignac is a bowl of oatmeal and a fat free cappuccino, lunch and dinner are meats, olive oil, and vegetables, with whole milk yogurt or cheese for dessert and snacks.
i am thinking i should give up coffee, which is harder for me than when i gave up smoking. will be worth it though if it helps.
is there anything wrong with my daily diet?
do you count your calories?

[Megan200]

Hi there,
Thanks for the warning - I always wondered if this system would make us hypersensitive to starch & sugar, because our bodies get accustomed to not having to process it.

So my suggestion is that the oatmeal eaten without a lot of other foods might be the problem.

I had gestational diabetes and had to test my blood sugar after every meal. When I was first trying to get my numbers under control, I found that oatmeal would make my blood sugar go right up - especially if I added blueberries or other fruit.

I then read the advice at www.Mendoza.com & what he said about the overall glycemic load of a meal made sense. I now occaisionally will have oatmeal, but my breakfasts are always a combination of food.

I only eat oatmeal if I've eaten protien or vegetables (e.g. left over dinner from the night before, or a handful of mini-carrots). I vary the breakfasts I have - an omelette with cheese & piles of vegetables if I have time, or toast with peanut butter & celery stick and an apple, if I'm in a hurry. I make sure I get enough complex carbohydrates, by eating them with lunch and dinner.

Also, is your oatmeal the fast cooking kind? My mother has a different book & her's says oatmeal has to be slow cooking to be low GI.

I think it's very important to eat enough food (regardless of calories). When I stalled temporarily I found that eating a lot of very low GI food (raw vegetables, protein and fat) really got my metabolism going.

Good luck in getting back on track & please keep us updated. It's scary to think that the system might stop working for us, if we stray off it too much. I hope that proves not to be the case.

[daneo52]

yes, please learn from me !!! do not be a yo yo. be consistent. i truly believe now my body is totally resistant to change, and i am super sensitive to sugars now! watch out for this. i get cystic acne and really bad mood swings, and a drugged feeling when i do eat simple carbs now. i think my body detoxed when i quit eating sugar.
i am very interested in what you said about the oatmeal. montignac says to eat carbs with no fats or protein. i have the slow cook kind. i love it because it keeps me full for hours on end. but i wonder if this is what is stalling me. toast with peanut butter would be only for maintenance right? .
i have been straying and looking to the zone, the idea of eating balanced, and not seperating everything sounds more sensical and healthy. lowering the glycemic load. but according to montignac, having carbs with fat will send it straight to fat storage. anyway, as you can see, i am very confused. i dont know whether to stick it out with montignac or try something new. but i know i will never be a "cheater" again. i feel very unhealthy right now, and i hate that.

[daneo52]

congratulations on your success! you sound like me with the same goal! would you mind posting some sample menus and calorie limits you used to get to your goal?
thanks so much!!

[daneo52]

i have decided to have rye toast with fat free cream cheese for breakfasts now and see how those goes. the protein should help in the mornings, while still being level one. along with meat or fish and tons of vegetables for dinners, and cutting out cheeses for awhile. i am going to stick to this for one month, and not weigh myself, then see. thanks for reading.

[Spang]

Hi there!

I'm a strong believer in Montignac - come on, give him another try!

I think the website that Megan200 was referring to was this http://www.mendosa.com/gi.htm

For some reason, the previous link looked like something else!

I'd have to agree with Megan200, I'd suspect the oatmeal, slow or quick. I've been on a stall for a while now, but am quite happy about it for the moment!

I never have counted calories... but I did modify the Montignac plan to rely more on the Glycemic Load (as it details in the website up there) rather than Glycemic Index. You could try to do that to see if it helps for a while.


Its so nice to see people visiting the Montignac forum again, I was getting very lonley for a while!
Spang

[daneo52]

i am happy to see some people here too. this is such a great diet, but i guess in america people follow somersizing. i can help but believe she stole it from him. i have bought some of her books for recipes though. i believe sugarbusters copied him also.
thanks for the tip on oatmeal. do any of you eat muesli? i am in switzerland, so the muesli here is awesome. but it all has dried fruit or nuts, so i have never bought any, though montignac seems to say it is okay.
do you drink coffee?
thanks for the mendosa link.
hope to keep posting with you!

[Spang]

Hi there

My rule of thumb for muesli - try to avoid any with sugar added. I think that is the really bad part. Use no sugar at all, if you must add a little fructose instead, or some raisins / the right fresh fruit. I'm English, but live in America, and sometimes have granola for breakfast with either plain yogurt and fruit or some milk. Your rye toast and fat free cream cheese sound fine to me.

As you seem quite attached to your oatmeal - I'd suggest cutting it out for now - going to phase 1 of the plan again, and then reintroduce it at a later date.

You may also want to consider adding a sprinkle of brewer's yeast to your breakfast. I'm never one to recommend taking dietary supplements, but I think this one is a good idea. It helps to reduce the bodies intollerance to glucose, so it might help you kick start again. I think marmite works well too, if you know what that is (it's an English spread made from yeast - you either love it or hate it!)

I drink coffee religiously, so I know how hard it would be to give up. However, I always have esspresso based coffee drinks (normally cappuccino). I never have filter/drip or the freeze dried type. I know that Montignac tells us to avoid filter and freeze dried, and says that if we must espresso is ok. I tend to use low fat milk in it too.

I've often suspected that various popular plans, especially in the US, are "based" on Montignac... However, I have been planning to get a book that the mendoza site recommends, it is written by the Dr. in Australia that conducted all the research into documenting GI and GLs that can be found on the Mendoza site.

It is called the New Glucose Revolution...
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1569245061/ref=cm_wl_ovu-pg.1-pos.9/103-1937263-7869465?v=glance&coliid=IXHVNMFKSTJ75&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER

good luck - and keep posting!

[daneo52]

i do use espresso-a gorgeous latte every morning. i am going to try to cut it half and half caffeinated.
i am hanging my head in shame now, i just found out this whole time i was eating fast cooking oats! i thought because they didnt come in microwave package with lots of sugar, they were the good kind! i was at a health store and saw the slow cooking kind, and realized they are very different. anyway, i am giving it up til i start making progress anyway.
i could only find one quarter fat cream cheese, do you suppose this is okay? also the only bread that seemed correct was totally flat and heavy, i bought some whole grain toast bread. it does have a little oil, but i hope it will be okay. it was really a nice breakfast.
sometimes i feel montignac is inconsistent. all the other plans have such strict rules, i never know for sure what is acceptable with this one.
will run back to the store and get some brewers yeast. i have heard before it is good for energy and the skin too...
by the way, i am saving up to go to london this summer! have been before, but for less than a week, and that just isnt enough time!

[Megan200]

Hi again - I'm glad the mystery of the oatmeal has been discovered! I've also ate a lot of things with high GI by accident when I first started (raisins,low fat soup stock with starch & sugar as key ingredients). I hope that this solves the problem & you are able to start to losing quickly again.

I've got a lot to do today & this weekend, but I'd love to keep talking. I wish I had known about this forum when I first started - I still have a ton of questions.

Although I don't have time to write down meal ideas right now, I will say that I really don't go out of my way to avoid fat. (I used to before I started Montignac).

I look forward to talking more.

Megan

[daneo52]

i really enjoy eating fat with this diet. the first time i did, it was so scary, i had always been a no-fat girl. now i really enjoy nice cheeses on occassion.
do you make any of your own desserts? i find that they tend to make me really hungry, so i try my best to avoid them. a shop here sells montignac products that i have always wanted to buy, but they are extremely expensive!
now lets see if these pounds start flying off without this oatmeal!

[mkm]

Just some additional ideas: Are you eating enough protein? I would also suggest to cut down the full fat yoghurt a bit. If I remember it correctly, the book says something about the fat in hard cheese is not "absorbed" by the body the same way as other fats are.

An idea about the oatmeal: We have some special oat here in my country with fiber added to it. It actually makes the oat meal tastes "better" and fives you some extra fibers to keep you full longer. I guess it gives a lower GI as well.

Good luck and keep on going!

--Maria - who started at Montignac, is now on Aktins, but will return to Montignac when she is at her goal weight.

[daneo52]

i do not think i can buy special oatmeal here. i had a really hard time finding the big oats. i cannot find fat free cheeses here either. i am going to try to cut back on all the dairy fats and saturated fats. i have read that fats from vegetables and fish burn off alot better than the others.
i have a problem with portion control as well. when i first started, i could lose very well eating enormous portions, but now i need to learn to cut back.
i just reread the book with a highlighter. there really are alot of details.
how are you doing with atkins? i really wish i had been able to stick with it, as it works really fast, i just feel better with carbs. in sweden, i bet you have lots of fabulous fish!

[mkm]

Originally posted by daneo52
i do not think i can buy special oatmeal here.
Maybe you could add some fibers yourself? Wheat germs?

how are you doing with atkins?
I'm doing more than fine! I skipped the induction phase since I already had lost quite a lot of weight thanks to Montignac. I went straight to Ongoing Weight Loss and the only thing I really miss is the bread for breakfast, but I keep myself fuller on egg&bacon and am not hungry until lunch. I keep myslef around 30-40 grams of carb/day and for me it's more than enough.

in sweden, i bet you have lots of fabulous fish!
Well, I live in the northest part and fresh fish is really rare... Lukcy me to be a "meat person" :)

One thing I have very hard to find is sugar free products. The stores here hav e fat free food, lactose free milk, "gluten"(??) free bread/pasta - but sugar free does not exist! Have tried to surf the net and maybe do some on-line shopping but it costs a fortune to have it sent to Sweden.

--Maria

[Spang]

In my opinion, just because 1 plan works faster than another, does not necessarily mean that it will work better in the long term, and with better effects to your overall health.

I know it is very "hot" subject, but I don't think atkins is worth the effort, health wise. (I've been told horrors by my flat mate, about the long term effects on the liver when on Atkins - she is a pharmecutical biologist, so I trust her, rather than sensational reports in the news!)

Have you tried looking for diabetic related food? That will probably be sugar free, if it is not advertised in the other health food areas at shops. I guess I'm lucky living in SF, as they have several excellent resources for sugar free / organic food. I've even found ice cream that contains fructose instead of any of the other "bad" sugars.

Montignac talks less about nneding fat free / low fat foods - I've always been fine with cheese of any type, and I drink fat free milk just out of personal preference (and a lot of it!)

try and see if you can get acceptable alternatives to things like bread - eat rye, pasta - get soy / quinoa / wholewheat pasta, rice - eat brown basmatic or wild rice. eat a little of these with a lot of vegetables / protein.

i found that if i needed to snack during the day - raw nuts are good (i.e. not roasted / salted etc) - or "good" fruit.

Montiganc isn't called the father of all these plans for nothing ;)

Good luck on whatever plan you are using!

Spang

[mkm]

Originally posted by Spang
Have you tried looking for diabetic related food?

Thanks for the suggestion, and I have. There are no such shelves in our groceries here any more. I was happy today, to find sugarfree peanut butter at a little local Oriental grocery shop. Made my day! :) I'm entering every shop I can see selling food nowadays, to see if maybe they have some sugar free things. My hint for today was a shop located where lots of seniors lives, but no catch there either. The food market in Sweden are ruled by two big companies and no matter what shop you enter - they sell the same stuff. It's too bad really, but the truth. That's why I try to visit those special shops instead (I live in a small city, too...).

Montignac talks less about nneding fat free / low fat foods - I've always been fine with cheese of any type, and I drink fat free milk just out of personal preference (and a lot of it!)

And this is the way I have interpreted him as well. He talks about low fat food in the morning, no fat in the evening etc. I also drank fat free milk while doing Montignac.


try and see if you can get acceptable alternatives to things like bread - eat rye, pasta - get soy / quinoa / wholewheat pasta, rice - eat brown basmatic or wild rice. eat a little of these with a lot of vegetables / protein.


I'm sorry, but this did not work for me - I stalled and even started to gain weight. I realized that if I would continue to loose weight I had to reduce the carbs even more. It was than I started to surf for other - more low carb oriented - diets. I am pretty sure I can eat like that during maintance, but not as long as I want to loose weight. I may be too impatience, but I do want to see some result of my tryings. I'm loosing about 0.75 kg/week (1,5 pounds?) which I think is a pretty good rate. I'm the kind of person that if I start doing something - I do it to 200%! I think we all are different and different plans works on different people.


Good luck on whatever plan you are using!


Thank you! And I still think that Montignac is the way to live for the rest of my life! It's a great theory and I believe in it! I just adjusted it a bit during weight loss! :)

Regards

--Maria

[Spang]

Hi Maria

I'm sorry to hear none of my suggestions helped you :(

It must be very frustrating for you to have such a limited choice of foods available. I do take it for granted that I have a wide variety of food available close at hand in the US, and in the UK as well.

It sounds like you have very realistic goals on what you expect your average weekly weight loss to be. Assuming you want to lose weight healthily, of course!

But - as your triumph in the sugar free peanut butter shows - its the small successes that keep you going on a day to day basis.
:clap:
Spang

[Megan200]

Hi Daneo - I just wanted to check in & see how you are doing. Have you had any results yet?

[daneo52]

hello! well i have lost a pound, but i think the real triumph is that i have stayed legal and am feeling good and balanced. i was having eggs for breakfast for a few days after i found it was hard for me to control my toast in the mornings. the jam on it was all natural, but so sweet, and i know montignac says that having bread with some oil in it is not allowed. anyway, it was so tasty, i kept going back for more slices. not so good. i enjoyed eggs with lots of grilled mushrooms for awhile, then noted i get nauseous if i do this more than a couple days in a row. do not know why. i really need carby breakfasts. but overly sweet tastes always cause me to overeat.
i am making myself some all natural muesli and plan to eat that now with some yogurt.
i think the best change i have made is adding some protein to every meal. i am going to start adding some beans to my dinners now.
i think i would have lost more weight, but my husband and i have been under a lot of stress with his work situation, and we have been drinking lots of wine each night to wind down. i promised to stop this tonight.
i have been weaning myself down on espresso strength in my morning coffees. it helps that i just read that schwarzbein calls caffeine metabolically aging. true or not, i do not know, but i think of it and it helps me cut back.
i just love this diet so much, and the first time my weight loss was so fast, this time so incredibly slow. but i am trying to see it as a good thing, because this time it will be permanent.
another thing i am doing is looking at this as a life change, not a quick diet. so if i do have something off plan, i will keep on going, not think i blew it and eat junk food for weeks like i did before. this is quite a step for me, though it seems so logical.
i am also starting to exercise again. i do cardio intervals, and am considering buying the super slow training book. i want to do callanetics twice a week. it is so boring, but really really works! i also want to start yoga, tae bo, and belly dancing. this will really make me feel good to be regularly active.
do you exercise?
thanks for asking about me! hope i did not give too long an answer!

[Spang]

yoga rocks!

I started yoga at tha same time I started montignac - it helps so much.

can't remember if i've mentioned it or not - but you could try a sprinkle of brewer's yeast on your toast!

spang

[daneo52]

i am still plugging away. i have not lost any more weight, but have not been able stay on the plan entirely. yesterday, we found out my husband will be able to keep his job, so this takes alot of stress away. i have always been a stress eater. plus we have been going to alot of dinners, where huge plates of white rice were served, and there is no polite way not to eat it, here in switzerland, people do not diet, and think the whole concept is pretty weird. they eat tons of potatoes, beer, and cheese and are slim as rails. they always tell me just to eat smaller portions if my weight creeps up, and make me feel like i am just being difficult.
i feel pretty sad to still be so heavy. i had to go out and buy new clothes. but i hope in time if i stick with it, it will happen. it is healthy, and cant go wrong with that!
my friend is discouraging me, saying that the same diet cannot work twice. i hope this is not true!
hope everyone else is doing well.

[Spang]

Without offending your discouraging friends - ignore them!

I'm so glad to hear your husband will be able to keep his job, and your lives will be less stressful as a result.

Don't get sad because of your plateau, or lack of apparent progress. Look at it as a challenge and something to look forward too! Have the attitude that you can and will disprove all your friends who think you are crazy for trying to improve your diet! There is nothing better than looking someone in the eye, smiling, and saying, "I told you so!" ;)

Where on earth is your friend getting information about the same diet not working twice? Is your DNA or metabolism changing between diets so that different foods mean different things? Of course not!

I'm English, so I know all about being polite and eating everything on one's plate (a throwback to the days of rationing). There is nothing polite in forcing yourself to eat foods that you don't want to. If you really feel bad about making a stand for your diet choices, say that you are allergic to the food (i.e. potatoes, rice, beer etc). or have a very little bit of them in comparison to the rest of your meal.

But most of all, please please PLEASE don't feel bad about yourself because other people may laugh at you trying to better yourself.

We are all here to support you however we can.

Spang

[daneo52]

thanks for the encouraging post! my husband and i are leaving for holidays now. he is from austria and they have perfect montignac food there, fresh grainy breads, fresh skim milk, wonderful salads with pumpkin seed oil, and grilled meats and veggies. i will forgo the cakes and pastries, but do intend to thorougly enjoy a coffee each day. i have started to like the taste of coffee without sweetener, and i can really tell what is good coffee now without it masked by chemicals.
my friend who told me that no diet will work twice is a ctually an anti-diet counselor. she used to diet, and has tried everyone, even interesting ice cream diets that make no sense, now trains people on how bad diets are. one thing is that i really dont see montignac as a diet as it does not involving obsessive counting or hunger, just making a few healthy choices with respect to gi and combination. i honestly eat quite a bit of food. i hate to be hungry, i get very cranky. even though i do really hope to lose some weight eventually.
i sat at a bookstore today and read his diet for women book. he seems to recommend whole milk with protein lipid breakfasts in one part, and then stresses the importance of having skim milk to balance the fat. which do you think is correct?
.

[Spang]

I hope you both have a great holiday! Get some good rest and relaxation, and some nice food too.

I know how you feel about getting cranky when you are hungry, I have suffered a lot after I made the switch to Montignac and having 3 meals a day (I used to skip breakfast). I find that a handy supply of things like nuts, some fresh fruit, celery / carrots, or some 70% + cocoa solid chocolate to snack on if I feel the crankyness approach helps a lot.

I can now see where your friend is coming from, as she is an anti diet campaigner. However, in Montignac's 1st book, he is very much an anti diet campaigner too. He strongly disagrees with yo yo dieting, as you always end up worse than you started eventually. This sounds like what your friend is saying too. In my humble opinion, Montignac is not a diet. It is a change in eating habits for good. I like to think I will always be following the Montiganc plan to some extent. This sounds like what you are planning too.

I know you feel annoyed or sad that you are at a plateau. I've just been looking at my stats, and I've been at a plateau for what I realize is about 2 months at least.

I put this down to 3 main things:-
1) I'm getting very close to my goal weight - based on my body mass index. It is always those last 5 - 10 lbs that are the goign to be the hardest to get rid of.
2) I've kicked up my yoga practise to at least 2 sessions a week, which is really helping to tone / build my muscles. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to become body builder size at all - but I have very poor arm strength, and pretty flabby abs too ;) So I see some of the plateau as muscle gain weighing more than fat loss.
3) I've been slipping into Phase 2 of the Montignac, possibly out of boredom with Phase 1. When I started Montiganc, I was very good at only drinking water throughout the day, with some green tea occassionally - and my morning coffee. But i've moved over to drinking more and more fruit juices - which probably cantain WAY too much sugars...

Looking at your stats - youa re very close to your goal weight already. You may be suffering from my 1st point too. It just takes a little more time for those last few bits to go!

Its so good to hear you've weened yourself off sweetner in your coffee. That took me a while to do as well, and it does make a world of difference in the taste. Actually, I've found that many of the foods and drinks I used to consume frequently are now unbearably sweet and tasteless now.

Your final point about the skim milk vs whole milk. I've not read Montgnac's book adapted for women, but one of my main complaints about the Montignac book is that it does tend to be slightly contradictory.

Personally, I drink a lot of milk (in fact, I have a lot of any dairy products - I like to try and get my calcium for other health reasons). I always go for skim milk (fat free) to drink or put on muesli, and semi skim (2%) in my coffee. In America, we have whole milk, 2% milk (semi - skim) and fat free (skim). This is more for personal preference rather than interpretation of the Montignac recommendations. Although I do avoid whole milk to try and cut down a little on the saturated fats.

I had a quick look at the GI list on the mendoza site.

Full fat milk has a GI of 24 and a G load of 3 (an average of 5 readings)
Skim milk has a GI of about 30, and a G load of 4.

So both of them are technically "ok".

Sorry to be vague on that one. I think it would be ok to follow preference on this one.

I'm getting a new book soon, it's not Montignac, but one that was recommended by the mendoza site (http://www.mendosa.com/gidigest.htm). When that arrives, I'll see if it helps to clarify which milk is best.

Sorry for the long post!

Spang

[daneo52]

thanks for the milk tips. here we have whole milk that tastes like pure cream that almost everyone drinks, but only with coffee, i have never seen anyone in europe have a glass of milk, and then lowfat is 2.7%, and skim milk is so rarely bought, that it can only be found in UHT, which is the kind that has been processed so you can keep it in your closet for months. the taste is not very good. i drink gallons of fresh skim milk whenever i go to countries that have it.
i wonder if i am just being nitpicky over which milk to use. i do have the somersize books, to me she almost directly copied montignac, and her recipes are to die for. she says to use whole cream for protein lipid meals. according to her, if you have one little slip, like regular milk with this meal-something illegal, then the whole meal will be stored as fat. her rules are very precise and must be followed. i find montignac is a bit more relaxed, but maybe that is just because i cannot interpret his rules properly. suzanne says to freely eat cheese and cream, which i dont think is a very good thing. she also encourages to have only a few carb meals a week til you have lost weight, which i do not like.
have you heard of the fat fallayc book? i have just read and liked it. similar to montignac. the author went to france, lost alot of weight eating fatty foods, and wrote a book about it. he says to eat very small meals, absolutely no chemicals of any kind, only natural foods, to prepare things beautifully, and eat super slowly, really appreciating and savoring the food. he encourages full fat products, like whole milk and cheese. it reminded me of the way i ate in france, and i got thin as a rail. he does say that if you are sensitive to the croissants and sugars after years of overeating sugar or dieting, then you should eat only healthy carbs for 2 months to heal you pancreas. sounds like montignac.
anyway, will write again in 2 weeks!

[daneo52]

thanks for the milk tips. here we have whole milk that tastes like pure cream that almost everyone drinks, but only with coffee, i have never seen anyone in europe have a glass of milk, and then lowfat is 2.7%, and skim milk is so rarely bought, that it can only be found in UHT, which is the kind that has been processed so you can keep it in your closet for months. the taste is not very good. i drink gallons of fresh skim milk whenever i go to countries that have it.
i wonder if i am just being nitpicky over which milk to use. i do have the somersize books, to me she almost directly copied montignac, and her recipes are to die for. she says to use whole cream for protein lipid meals. according to her, if you have one little slip, like regular milk with this meal-something illegal, then the whole meal will be stored as fat. her rules are very precise and must be followed. i find montignac is a bit more relaxed, but maybe that is just because i cannot interpret his rules properly. suzanne says to freely eat cheese and cream, which i dont think is a very good thing. she also encourages to have only a few carb meals a week til you have lost weight, which i do not like.
have you heard of the fat fallayc book? i have just read and liked it. similar to montignac. the author went to france, lost alot of weight eating fatty foods, and wrote a book about it. he says to eat very small meals, absolutely no chemicals of any kind, only natural foods, to prepare things beautifully, and eat super slowly, really appreciating and savoring the food. he encourages full fat products, like whole milk and cheese. it reminded me of the way i ate in france, and i got thin as a rail. he does say that if you are sensitive to the croissants and sugars after years of overeating sugar or dieting, then you should eat only healthy carbs for 2 months to heal you pancreas. sounds like montignac.
anyway, will write again in 2 weeks!