SSRI's Natural alternative to Celexa ... etc ?

[Gus]

I've been taking Celexa, but would rather accomplish this
through natural or dietary means. I know there are many types
of food that aid in this but what I'm looking for is something
definitive that helps.

Maybe someone has experience with this and can help ?

[Priscilla]

Gus <dpsanter@netscape.net> quoth:
>I've been taking Celexa, but would rather accomplish this
>through natural or dietary means. I know there are many types
>of food that aid in this but what I'm looking for is
>something definitive that helps.

>Maybe someone has experience with this and can help ?

I don't know of any foods that will do what the SSRIs do. Why
do you have an objection to taking meds?

Priscilla
--
"I would listen to Priscilla. Her advice is excellent!"

-- Frankenmel (Sharon) on alt.support.menopause

[Jim Chinni]

dpsanter@netscape.net (Gus) wrote in part:

>I've been taking Celexa, but would rather accomplish this
>through natural or dietary means. I know there are many types
>of food that aid in this but what I'm looking for is
>something definitive that helps.
>
>Maybe someone has experience with this and can help ?

High dose of exercise each day.

There's SOME evidence that restricting carbohydrates and
adding fish oil (long-chain omega-3s) may help.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

[Paul Chefu]

On 30 Jan 2003 07:29:21 -0800, dpsanter@netscape.net
(Gus) wrote:

>I've been taking Celexa, but would rather accomplish this
>through natural or dietary means. I know there are many types
>of food that aid in this but what I'm looking for is
>something definitive that helps.
>
>Maybe someone has experience with this and can help ?

I've tried to alleviate my depression by non-drug means - St.
John's Wort, SAMe and fish oil, but to no avail. SSRIs gave me
big problems, but I switched to Wellbutrin which has proven to
be effective and free of side effects. It can take some trial
and error to find the right AD for any given person. While I
understand your reluctance to take medication, the evidence
for any of the supplements I tried is relatively weak, while
the drugs are known to be effective.

One thing you might want to consider is Cognitive Behavior
Therapy. Used either alone or as an adjunct to medication it
has been clinically proven. Take a look at
http://www.cognitive-behavior-therapy.org/

I investigated it, but I'm a "better living through chemistry"
kind of guy, so I didn't follow up. If you can find a
psychologist who specializes in it, it could be the thing
you're looking for.

Paul

[Tintinet]

dpsanter@netscape.net (Gus) wrote in message
news:<fe34aa0b.0301300729.458f3a94@posting.google.com>...
> I've been taking Celexa, but would rather accomplish this
> through natural or dietary means. I know there are many
> types of food that aid in this but what I'm looking for is
> something definitive that helps.
>
> Maybe someone has experience with this and can help ?

Foods associated with better mood include garlic and fatty
fish. Herbs used to treat mild depression include St. John's
Wort, although some studies have shown it not to be effective,
there are those who have found faults in the study. SAMe is
also used to treat depression. 5-HTP may help with depression.
Idebenone is supposed to increase brain serotonin levels.

[Gym Bob]

Be very careful of natural supplements that influence your
emotional state. Try things on a low dosage basis and be
patient. possibly a multi-supplement attack would be best.
Long term yeast (candida) problems can give anxiety and
depression problems from malnutrition related issues.

L-trytophan would be the best but banned in the USA if you are
not a baby or a pet. L-phenylalinine...natural upper
DL-phenylalinine is claimed to be better St John's Wart
General health Exercise Lots of Vitamin B complex with Vit C
complex lecithin. many other supplements and techniques are
good. research...research....research.....

Do not feel a failure if you cannot make this work. Many
researchers believe this is an inborn/genetic thing and can
only be "Eased" but not "cured"

I could not find my own cure for anxiety and went to
medications after fighting it for 45 years. It has taught me
the difference of what being "normal" feels like.

Best of luck to you.

"Gus" <dpsanter@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:fe34aa0b.0301300729.458f3a94@posting.google.com...
> I've been taking Celexa, but would rather accomplish this
> through natural or dietary means. I know there are many
> types of food that aid in this but what I'm looking for is
> something definitive that helps.
>
> Maybe someone has experience with this and can help ?

[Gus]

"Gym Bob" <NoneAtAll@notspam.com> wrote in message
news:<ebl_9.666$fw7.59346062@mantis.golden.net>...
> Be very careful of natural supplements that influence your
> emotional state. Try things on a low dosage basis and be
> patient. possibly a multi-supplement attack would be best.
> Long term yeast (candida) problems can give anxiety and
> depression problems from malnutrition related issues.
>
> L-trytophan would be the best but banned in the USA if you
> are not a baby or a pet. L-phenylalinine...natural upper
> DL-phenylalinine is claimed to be better St John's Wart
> General health Exercise Lots of Vitamin B complex with Vit C
> complex lecithin. many other supplements and techniques are
> good. research...research....research.....
>
> Do not feel a failure if you cannot make this work. Many
> researchers believe this is an inborn/genetic thing and can
> only be "Eased" but not "cured"
>
> I could not find my own cure for anxiety and went to
> medications after fighting it for 45 years. It has taught me
> the difference of what being "normal" feels like.
>
> Best of luck to you.
>
> "Gus" <dpsanter@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:fe34aa0b.0301300729.458f3a94@posting.google.com...
> > I've been taking Celexa, but would rather accomplish this
> > through natural or dietary means. I know there are many
> > types of food that aid in this but what I'm looking for is
> > something definitive that helps.
> >
> > Maybe someone has experience with this and can help ?

One of the reasons I would like to get off the Med is $, can
be expensive. The other is unknown long term affects, and I
just feel something natural would be better.

I realize some of the things mentioned here are effecticve to
different degrees however what I was looking for is something
that was proven to work.

[Gym Bob]

If it is expense you are worried about the meds are probably
cheaper and less hassle.

As far a "proven" to work...depending on your definitition or
"proven"......if you are a follower of the "standard medical"
philosophy there is NO proven results.

"Gus" <dpsanter@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:fe34aa0b.0301311231.442d51c@posting.google.com...
> "Gym Bob" <NoneAtAll@notspam.com> wrote in message
news:<ebl_9.666$fw7.59346062@mantis.golden.net>...
> > Be very careful of natural supplements that influence your
> > emotional
state.
> > Try things on a low dosage basis and be patient.
> > possibly a
multi-supplement
> > attack would be best. Long term yeast (candida) problems
> > can give anxiety and depression
problems
> > from malnutrition related issues.
> >
> > L-trytophan would be the best but banned in the USA if you
> > are not a
baby or
> > a pet. L-phenylalinine...natural upper DL-phenylalinine is
> > claimed to be better St John's Wart General health
> > Exercise Lots of Vitamin B complex with Vit C complex
> > lecithin. many other supplements and techniques are good.
> > research...research....research.....
> >
> > Do not feel a failure if you cannot make this work. Many
> > researchers
believe
> > this is an inborn/genetic thing and can only be "Eased"
> > but not "cured"
> >
> > I could not find my own cure for anxiety and went to
> > medications after fighting it for 45 years. It has taught
> > me the difference of what being "normal" feels like.
> >
> > Best of luck to you.
> >
> > "Gus" <dpsanter@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > news:fe34aa0b.0301300729.458f3a94@posting.google.com...
> > > I've been taking Celexa, but would rather accomplish
> > > this through natural or dietary means. I know there are
> > > many types of food that aid in this but what I'm looking
> > > for is something definitive that helps.
> > >
> > > Maybe someone has experience with this and can help ?
>
>
>
> One of the reasons I would like to get off the Med is $, can
> be expensive. The other is unknown long term affects, and I
> just feel something natural
would
> be better.
>
> I realize some of the things mentioned here are effecticve
> to different
degrees
> however what I was looking for is something that was proven
> to work.

[Sandy]

On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:04:42 -0500, "Gym Bob"
<NoneAtAll@notspam.com> wrote:

>If it is expense you are worried about the meds are probably
>cheaper and less hassle.
>
>As far a "proven" to work...depending on your definitition or
>"proven"......if you are a follower of the "standard medical"
>philosophy there is NO proven results.

That's a philosophical argument and has nothing specific to do
with "standard medicine"

Sandy

[Alpha Male]

"Gus" <dpsanter@netscape.net> wrote

> >
> > "Gus" <dpsanter@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > news:fe34aa0b.0301300729.458f3a94@posting.google.com...
> > > I've been taking Celexa, but would rather accomplish
> > > this through natural or dietary means. I know there are
> > > many types of food that aid in this but what I'm looking
> > > for is something definitive that helps.
> > >
> > > Maybe someone has experience with this and can help ?
>
>
>
> One of the reasons I would like to get off the Med is $, can
> be expensive. The other is unknown long term affects, and I
> just feel something natural
would
> be better.
>
> I realize some of the things mentioned here are effecticve
> to different
degrees
> however what I was looking for is something that was proven
> to work.

One problem is getting the funding for any non-drug
(unpatentable/unprofitable). Even if it is proven, the
Pharma Cartel will fund "studies" to prove it's actually a
very dangerous substance. There's a few books at library,
such as "Natural Alternatives to Prozac", Nature's Prozac,
maybe others.

Interesting, one author claimed 90% of prescriptions for
(moderate/mild) depression in Germany were St John's Wort, yet
here in US it seems everyone is afflicted with Deep
depression, requiring Extra Strength drugs.
-------------------------------------------------------

Barron's Promotes Myth of Biological Depression and Drugs
as the Cure.

Barron's is a publication for investors. The cover story on
pages 25-26 of the May 20, 2002 issue is about how sales of
antidepressant drugs are affecting pharmaceutical firm stock
prices. <snip> the article includes a number of prominent
psychiatric myths. In particular, Mr. Palmer says "Depression
is caused by an imbalance of chemicals in the brain." He says
this as if it were a known and unquestioned fact. Of course,
as is typical of those who assert this claim, he doesn't state
which chemicals are imbalanced or in which direction they are
imbalanced (too much or too little). There are theories about
too little serotonin or norepinephrine, but they remain
unproved, and there are good reasons for doubting them - one
of which Mr. Palmer mentions in his article, namely, that
SSRIs increase the level of serotonin in the brain almost
immediately but have no effect on "depression" for three to
six weeks (if ever).

The truth is this: There still is no convincing evidence
sorrow or despondency or "depression" is ever caused by an
imbalance of chemicals in the brain or any other biological
cause. Mr. Palmer says antidepressant drugs really work, that
"only since the wildly successful introduction of Prozac in
1987 has a broad-based treatment been available. ...if you
know anyone who has been treated with antidepressants - or if
you've used them yourself - you can attest to their
effectiveness." Yet he also - inconsistently - admits the
following:

"Ironically, clinicians still don't understand exactly how
these drugs work. For while they increase the levels of
serotonin in the brain very quickly, they can take three
to six weeks to kick in and start lifting depression. ...
What more, it's a common finding that between 30% and 50%
of patients taking any one of the new antidepressants
fails to get any benefit from that particular drug. They
must try a second and maybe even a third, before they find
one that works".

If you have talked with many people who have taken these
antidepressant drugs, you have probably heard stories from
them about trying one supposedly antidepressant drug after
another and getting no relief from any of them. Furthermore,
people who say they benefit also say they start to feel better
only very slowly over a long period of time.

There are no tests to determine if in fact there are any
chemical imbalances in the brain causing depression nor
which brain chemicals are imbalanced or in which way they
might be imbalanced, nor are there any tests that will
predict which supposedly antidepressant drug will work for
any particular person.

It's all guesswork, which is why people have to try one drug
after another in hopes of finding one that works, despite
fantasy claims you will hear about the "science of
psychopharmacology." Why would a person supposedly get
relief from depression after trying several different
antidepressant drugs?

Answer: People will feel better over time with or without
"treatment," and each trial of an "antidepressant" drug takes
three to six weeks. So by the time the third drug is tried, a
person has been on supposedly antidepressant drugs for perhaps
three months and will be trying the third drug for another
month and a half.

Most people begin to feel less despondent in three or four
months with or without any sort of "treatment," but if a
person happens to be taking a particular drug when he starts
to feel better two or three or four months later, he may
falsely give credit to the drug. This, and the placebo
effect, are the "mechanisms of action" of supposedly
antidepressant drugs. It's the same as the mechanism of
action of penicillin on the common cold: Penicillin has no
effect on the common cold, but a common cold will go away on
its own without treatment in two weeks. Therefore, a shot of
penicillin will cure a common cold in two weeks. The
"mechanism of action" of antidepressants is similar. There is
no such thing as an antidepressant drug.

[Alpha Male]

"Gus" <dpsanter@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:fe34aa0b.0301311231.442d51c@posting.google.com...
>
> One of the reasons I would like to get off the Med is $, can
> be expensive. The other is unknown long term affects, and I
> just feel something natural
would
> be better.
>
> I realize some of the things mentioned here are effecticve
> to different
degrees
> however what I was looking for is something that was proven
> to work.

--------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
----------
Down in the Dumps? Chill with a Sugar Pill

Shankar Vedantam; The Washington Post Wednesday, May 8, 2002

Placebos seem as good as anti-depressants

WASHINGTON After thousands of studies, hundreds of millions of
prescriptions and tens of billions of dollars in sales, two
things are certain about pills that treat depression:
Anti-depressants like Prozac, Paxil and Zoloft work. And so do
sugar pills. . A new analysis has found that in the majority
of trials conducted by drug companies in recent decades, sugar
pills have done as well as - or better than -
anti-depressants. Companies have had to conduct numerous
trials to get two that show a positive result for the drug
they are testing, the Food and Drug Administration's minimum
for approval. . **What's more, the sugar pills, or placebos,
cause profound changes in the same areas of the brain affected
by the medicines,**

according to research published last week. One researcher has
ruefully concluded that a higher percentage of depressed
patients gets better on placebos today than 20 years ago. .
Placebos - or dud pills - have long been used to help
scientists separate the "real" effectiveness of medicines from
the "illusory" feelings of patients. The placebo effect - the
phenomenon of patients feeling better after they have been
treated with dud pills - is seen throughout the field of
medicine. But new research suggests that the placebo may play
an extraordinary role in the treatment of depression - where
how people feel spells the difference between sickness and
health. . The new research may shed light on findings such as
those from a trial last month that compared the herbal remedy
St. John's wort against Zoloft. St. John's wort fully cured 24
percent of the depressed people who received it, and Zoloft
cured 25 percent - but the placebo fully cured 32 percent. The
research was published in the Journal of the American Medical
Association. . The confounding and controversial findings do
not mean that anti-depressants do not work. But clinicians and
researchers say the results do suggest that people may be
overestimating the power of the drugs and that the medicines'
greatest benefits may come from the care and concern shown to
patients during a clinical trial - a context that does not
exist for millions of patients using the drugs in the real
world. . "The drugs work, and I prescribe them, but they are
not what they are cracked up to be," said Wayne Blackmon, a
Washington psychiatrist whose practice largely comprises
patients who suffer from depression. . "I know from clinical
experience the drugs alone don't do the job." . Still, drugs
may have become the reflexive treatment for the vast majority
of Americans receiving medical attention for depression. As
the number of doctor visits for depression rose from 14
million in 1987 to almost 25 million last year, medication was
prescribed for nine in 10 patients, according to research
published last week. . It is not clear how many patients
received medicine in a context of therapy, although research
has indicated that combining medicine with psychotherapy
produces the best results. . But Randall Stafford, the
Stanford University physician who conducted the study on
doctor visits, found that less than one-third of them in 2001
were to psychiatrists and two-thirds of them were to primary
care physicians. The
psychiatrists are more likely to situate the medicine in a
larger context of therapy, while the primary care
physicians are less knowledgeable about therapy, more
pressed for time and less likely to offer patients the
attention they would receive in a clinical trial,
according to the study, published in the Primary Care
Companion to the Journal of Clinical
ppsychiatry. . The average participant in an eight-week
trial spends about 20 hours being examined by top experts
and highly trained caregivers, said a Seattle
pppsychiatrist, Arif Khan, who studied the placebo effect in
trials submitted to the Food and Drug Administration.
Participants - including those being given sugar pills -
are asked detailed questions about how they are feeling,
and their every psychological change is closely noted. .
In comparison, Khan noted, the average patient with
depression sees a doctor perhaps 20 minutes a month. .
His analysis of 96 anti-depressant trials between 1979
and 1996 showed that in 52 percent of them, the effect of
the anti-depressant could not be distinguished from that
of the placebo. Khan, who expects his research to be
published later this year, said that the makers of Prozac
had had to run five trials to obtain two that were
positive, and that the makers of Paxil and Zoloft had had
to run even more. . He analyzed trials that were made
public in the medical literature, which tend to show
positive results, and those that were not. . "It speaks
to the difficulty we have in classifying and identifying
the disorders we deal with," said Thomas Laughren, who
heads the group of scientists at the Food and Drug
Administration, which evaluates the medicines. .
**"Psychiatric diagnosis is descriptive. We don't really
understand
ppppsychiatric disorders at a biological level."** . Patients
with similar symptoms, he explained, may have different
problems with their brain chemistry. Scientists do not
understand the neural mechanisms of depression - or why
medicines like Prozac and Paxil work. . "We like to think
we give people treatments and they get better," said
Andrew Leuchter, a professor of psychiatry at the
University of California, Los Angeles. "We have this
fallacy of success, but we don't know in any individual
why they get better. Undoubtedly one of those factors is
the time we spend with people and the connectedness that
gives patients." . In January, Leuchter published a study
in the American Journal of Psychiatry in which he tracked
some of the brain changes associated with drugs such as
Prozac and Effexor, which are called selective serotonin
reuptake inhibitors. **When Leuchter compared the brain
changes in patients on placebos, he was amazed to find
that many of them had changes in the same parts of the
brain that are thought to control important facets of
mood.** . Patients who got better on placebos showed
heightened activity in the prefrontal lobe, and that
activity continued to rise during the eight weeks of the
study. Those who responded to medicine initially showed a
decline in prefrontal brain activity, then a rise that
eventually tapered off. Thirty-eight percent of patients
responded to the placebo, and 52 percent to the
medicines. . Once the trial was over and the patients who
had been given placebos were told as much, they quickly
deteriorated. People's belief in the power of
anti-depressants may explain why they do well on
placebos. Patients in trials are not told which they are
receiving. . Likewise, sea changes in the treatment of
depression - including the reduction in the stigma
attached to mental illness, the widespread use of
anti-depressants and the immense marketing efforts by
their manufacturers - may explain why Timothy Walsh, a
psychiatrist at Columbia University, recently found that
the placebo effect has grown in recent years. He found
that greater percentages of people tended to get better
on placebos during trials of anti-depressants in 2000
than in 1981. . Some observers assert that the medicine
itself works because of the placebo effect, but most
psychiatrists believe the drugs do have an effect of
their own. Drugs are a "placebo-plus" treatment, said
Helen Mayberg, head of neuropsychiatry at the Rotman
Research Institute at the University of Toronto.

http://www.iht.com/articles/57010.html

[Nick]

If that's the way you feel when you take 5 HTP, serotonin may
not be your problem. Ever consider that?

Gus <dpsanter@netscape.net> quoth:
>I've been taking Celexa, but would rather accomplish this
>through natural or dietary means. I know there are many types
>of food that aid in this but what I'm looking for is
>something definitive that helps.

>Maybe someone has experience with this and can help ?

I don't know of any foods that will do what the SSRIs do. Why
do you have an objection to taking meds?

Priscilla
--
"I would listen to Priscilla. Her advice is excellent!"

-- Frankenmel (Sharon) on alt.support.menopause

[Gym Bob]

Interesting site that may right up your alley,

Metabolic pathways discovered. ADD surveys to complete. Some
user feedbacks.

http://www.mindfixers.com/index.html

"Gus" <dpsanter@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:fe34aa0b.0301300729.458f3a94@posting.google.com...
> I've been taking Celexa, but would rather accomplish this
> through natural or dietary means. I know there are many
> types of food that aid in this but what I'm looking for is
> something definitive that helps.
>
> Maybe someone has experience with this and can help ?

[Brad Shepp]

Gus,

Aint no such a thing. St. John's Wort, and all of the
herbals, are hardly any more "natural" than cyanide (found in
cherry pits). The herbals can have tremendous variation in
potency. Fish oil may help, and probably won't hurt you. I
eat one tin of sardines in olive oil daily. But you'd still
need your meds. Also, regular exercise can improve mood and
relieve anxiety.

Re: cost - have you checked on the internet whether you can
order online cheaper? Also, you may be able to get a higher
dose and cut it in half to save money.

dpsanter@netscape.net (Gus) wrote in message
news:<fe34aa0b.0301311231.442d51c@posting.google.com>...
> "Gym Bob" <NoneAtAll@notspam.com> wrote in message
> news:<ebl_9.666$fw7.59346062@mantis.golden.net>...
> > Be very careful of natural supplements that influence your
> > emotional state. Try things on a low dosage basis and be
> > patient. possibly a multi-supplement attack would be best.
> > Long term yeast (candida) problems can give anxiety and
> > depression problems from malnutrition related issues.
> >
> > L-trytophan would be the best but banned in the USA if you
> > are not a baby or a pet. L-phenylalinine...natural upper
> > DL-phenylalinine is claimed to be better St John's Wart
> > General health Exercise Lots of Vitamin B complex with Vit
> > C complex lecithin. many other supplements and techniques
> > are good. research...research....research.....
> >
> > Do not feel a failure if you cannot make this work. Many
> > researchers believe this is an inborn/genetic thing and
> > can only be "Eased" but not "cured"
> >
> > I could not find my own cure for anxiety and went to
> > medications after fighting it for 45 years. It has taught
> > me the difference of what being "normal" feels like.
> >
> > Best of luck to you.
> >
> > "Gus" <dpsanter@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > news:fe34aa0b.0301300729.458f3a94@posting.google.com...
> > > I've been taking Celexa, but would rather accomplish
> > > this through natural or dietary means. I know there are
> > > many types of food that aid in this but what I'm looking
> > > for is something definitive that helps.
> > >
> > > Maybe someone has experience with this and can help ?
>
>
>
> One of the reasons I would like to get off the Med is $, can
> be expensive. The other is unknown long term affects, and I
> just feel something natural would be better.
>
> I realize some of the things mentioned here are effecticve
> to different degrees however what I was looking for is
> something that was proven to work.