moving your back during rows/deads

[Mike]

Hi all,

I've been working out for a while now - things are going
pretty well (mostly thanks to the google archives of this
group), but I was browsing exrx.net today, and noticed a few
things. The first was that in the seated cable rows, the
demo indicates a LOT of back movement, while I've always
done the straight-back cable rows. Is one typically
preferred over the other?

I read on a bit more, and found the "Dangerous Exercises"
essay on the same site:
http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/DangerousExercises.html

It seems to discuss even doing straight-leg deadlifts with
spinal flexion and extension - another exercise where I
thought I was meant to keep my back straight. Have I missed
something?

cheers, Mike

[Sgt Robo]

people generally do squats, the various forms of deadlifts,
and the various forms of rowing exercises wrong.

they almost always use a belt to try to compensate for weak
abdominal development.

the exercises themselves are fine. It's the dopes performing
the exercise, usually.

"Mike" <michael.owen@hushmail.com> wrote in message
news:567f0a34.0212220915.2d88a7d6@posting.google.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I've been working out for a while now - things are going
> pretty well (mostly thanks to the google archives of this
> group), but I was browsing exrx.net today, and noticed a few
> things. The first was that in the seated cable rows, the
> demo indicates a LOT of back movement, while I've always
> done the straight-back cable rows. Is one typically
> preferred over the other?
>
> I read on a bit more, and found the "Dangerous Exercises"
> essay on the same site:
> http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/DangerousExercises.html
>
> It seems to discuss even doing straight-leg deadlifts with
> spinal flexion and extension - another exercise where I
> thought I was meant to keep my back straight. Have I missed
> something?
>
> cheers, Mike

[Cjf.]

Mike wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been working out for a while now - things are going
> pretty well (mostly thanks to the google archives of this
> group), but I was browsing exrx.net today, and noticed a few
> things. The first was that in the seated cable rows, the
> demo indicates a LOT of back movement, while I've always
> done the straight-back cable rows. Is one typically
> preferred over the other?

You mean you keep your back stationary. Using the lower
back as they show is proper form. You can do them their way
or yours. Your way is fine too, just won't work the lower
back as much.

> I read on a bit more, and found the "Dangerous Exercises"
> essay on the same site:
> http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/DangerousExercises.html
>
> It seems to discuss even doing straight-leg deadlifts with
> spinal flexion and extension - another exercise where I
> thought I was meant to keep my back straight. Have I missed
> something?

They mean don't round the back on SLDLs. You seem to be
doing that.

> cheers, Mike

Jeff out ...

[Spodosauru]

It must be wayyyyyy past my bed time...I read the title of
this thread as "moving your bowels during rows"

[Rita]

On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 15:18:48 GMT, "CJF."
<jeff.finlayson@hsv1-boeing.com> wrote:

>Mike wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've been working out for a while now - things are going
>> pretty well (mostly thanks to the google archives of this
>> group), but I was browsing exrx.net today, and noticed a
>> few things. The first was that in the seated cable rows,
>> the demo indicates a LOT of back movement, while I've
>> always done the straight-back cable rows. Is one typically
>> preferred over the other?
>
>You mean you keep your back stationary. Using the lower
>back as they show is proper form. You can do them their way
>or yours. Your way is fine too, just won't work the lower
>back as much.
>
Interesting. I am no expert at all, but my trainer taught me
to let the backward movement come from my shoulders, not my
arms, and to retract my shoulders until I could "pinch a
penny" between my shoulder blades. Upper back strength and
shoulder strength are one of my weak ponts, so perhaps that
is why. At any rate, I notice I do this differently than
most in the gym who seem to pull the cable back and forth at
much greater speed. I do these VERY slowly as taught. The
trainer explained this as the difference between simply
moving weight around and exhausting the specific muscles one
wants to improve.

Any comments?

[Kirk Roy]

Rita <spamcatcher@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> Interesting. I am no expert at all, but my trainer taught me
> to let the backward movement come from my shoulders, not my
> arms, and to retract my shoulders until I could "pinch a
> penny" between my shoulder blades. Upper back strength and
> shoulder strength are one of my weak ponts, so perhaps that
> is why. At any rate, I notice I do this differently than
> most in the gym who seem to pull the cable back and forth at
> much greater speed. I do these VERY slowly as taught. The
> trainer explained this as the difference between simply
> moving weight around and exhausting the specific muscles one
> wants to improve.

I didn't realize that 'exhausting' muscles was a goal for
working out. Lifting slowly because you're using a lot of
tension is one thing (advocated by Tsatsouline) but simply
moving the weight slowly and purposefully wanting to exhaust
your muscles sound like bad ideas to me.

What are your goals in working out?

Kirk

[Rita]

On 23 Dec 2002 18:16:05 GMT, Kirk Roy <kirk@nova.org> wrote:

>Rita <spamcatcher@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>> Interesting. I am no expert at all, but my trainer taught
>> me to let the backward movement come from my shoulders, not
>> my arms, and to retract my shoulders until I could "pinch a
>> penny" between my shoulder blades. Upper back strength and
>> shoulder strength are one of my weak ponts, so perhaps that
>> is why. At any rate, I notice I do this differently than
>> most in the gym who seem to pull the cable back and forth
>> at much greater speed. I do these VERY slowly as taught.
>> The trainer explained this as the difference between simply
>> moving weight around and exhausting the specific muscles
>> one wants to improve.
>
>I didn't realize that 'exhausting' muscles was a goal for
>working out. Lifting slowly because you're using a lot of
>tension is one thing (advocated by Tsatsouline) but simply
>moving the weight slowly and purposefully wanting to exhaust
>your muscles sound like bad ideas to me.
>
>What are your goals in working out?
>
To become stronger. I am an elderly person. I had lost much
muscle mass, and am slowly rebuilding it. My delts are one of
my weakest body parts. Getting better, but much easier for me
to do lower body exercises than upper body.

[Kirk Roy]

Rita <spamcatcher@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> To become stronger. I am an elderly person.

I would think that exhausting the muscles would be a negative
for an elderly person as exhaustion is more likely to lead to
form problems and injuries. However, I am far from an expert.
I tried to get my Mom started lifting but she didn't like
doing it so...

> I had lost much muscle mass, and am slowly rebuilding it.

That's great!

Kirk

[Cjf.]

Rita wrote:
>"CJF." <jeff.finlayson@hsv1-boeing.com> wrote:
> >Mike wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I've been working out for a while now - things are going
> >> pretty well (mostly thanks to the google archives of this
> >> group), but I was browsing exrx.net today, and noticed a
> >> few things. The first was that in the seated cable rows,
> >> the demo indicates a LOT of back movement, while I've
> >> always done the straight-back cable rows. Is one
> >> typically preferred over the other?
> >
> >You mean you keep your back stationary. Using the lower
> >back as they show is proper form. You can do them their way
> >or yours. Your way is fine too, just won't work the lower
> >back as much.
> >
> Interesting. I am no expert at all, but my trainer taught
> me to let the backward movement come from my shoulders,
> not my arms, and to retract my shoulders until I could
> "pinch a penny" between my shoulder blades. Upper back
> strength and shoulder strength are one of my weak ponts,
> so perhaps that is why.

This is correct. I was talking about leaning back during the
lift,
i.e. using the lower back in the row.

> At any rate, I notice I do this differently than most in the
> gym who seem to pull the cable back and forth at much
> greater speed. I do these VERY slowly as taught. The trainer
> explained this as the difference between simply moving
> weight around and exhausting the specific muscles one wants
> to improve.
>
> Any comments?

Speed is OK as long as you are under control and not cheating.
Lifting very slow isn't natural to man. It won't improve
strength. That certainly won't improve power (strength-speed).
In what way did the trainer mean 'improve'?

Jeff out ...

[Rita]

On 23 Dec 2002 19:39:24 GMT, Kirk Roy <kirk@nova.org> wrote:

>Rita <spamcatcher@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>> To become stronger. I am an elderly person.
>
>I would think that exhausting the muscles would be a negative
>for an elderly person as exhaustion is more likely to lead to
>form problems and injuries. However, I am far from an expert.
>I tried to get my Mom started lifting but she didn't like
>doing it so...
>
>> I had lost much muscle mass, and am slowly rebuilding it.
>
>That's great!
>
It really is great. Overall, my trainer (and I think a trainer
is necessary for old people) did a great job guiding me slowly
so I never suffered from sore muscles or had injuries. Now I
am on my own. I am quite amazed at the muscles I have now that
were not there before. There is much I have yet to learn and
so reading this group prompts me to ask questions on things I
have wondered about. I see there is a lot of room for
different methods:)