Blood type and evolution

[shandyAndy]

Hi
This one is for the paleo experts out there. Do you think dr adamo's blood type theory is a scam? He reckons blood types evolved as our diet change, although he says blood types may have changed as long a go as 6 million years, the consequences of food choices ever since and ariculture have set people up to be gentically set for certain foods. He reckons one vegetarian tribe in africa have their own unique a blood type and that nearly all american indians were o. I'd be interested to know if this is bull **** and if so, why do we have different blood types?

Thanks for any help guys

[shandyAndy]

oh yeah. A good quick explanation of his theory is found if you load up amazon.com and look at his blood type encyclopedia. The peek of the first chapter pretty much explains it..Thanks by the way to anyone who replies, i do appreciate it. :D

[Janeydi]

he has before, which I find interesting...I can't quite understand the closed minds about it considering how folks here feel about people who are closeminded about low-carbing...hmmm...none of us have all the answers and I like to explore all possibilities.

I found that his recommendations for me were right on the money. I just couldn't lose weight following that plan as he doesn't limit carbs, per se. I know some people that fit his theory pretty well, and others that don't.

I've often wondered why a low-carb plan doesn't work for everyone, and I've come to the conclusion that genetics has a lot to do with it. I think that the blood type theory is just one way to separate groups. It might also be something totally different than blood types, but I think he is on to something.. that people whose genetic lines originated from different areas of the world, under different environmental/dietary conditions, have differing biological makeups. Did that make sense? ;)

He has a very active forum at his website (www.dadamo.com I think) that you can visit. He has some very devoted/knowledgeable followers. Reminds me of this forum. I haven't been there in probably a year, so if it's dead now, I apologize!

He's also not the only blood-type theorist...I saw 2 other books on the same topic at my local health food store last week.

Amy

[Janeydi]

check this out...

http://www.mercola.com/2002/dec/18/metabolic_typing.htm

I just got this this morning...good timing!

Amy

[kjturner]

I followed ER4YT for blood type A for 18 months...faithfully. I became diabetic eating that way. He says A's can't tolerate/digest animal proteins well. He does mention there are a few exceptions, and gives a general idea of what 'markers' indicate you are the exception. Well, my secretor status knocked out the first marker for an "O-like A" so I began the full A-type diet. Lots of veggies/fruits/high complex-high fiber starches/soy products/chicken & fish and rarely red meats. (But I 'craved' beef the whole time!) After discovering I was diabetic I embarked on the LC way of life. I went to a chiropractor/kineseologist who also believed in the ER4YT way of living and had him test me on lots of different foods. Well, in spite of at least one of my markers indicating I was NOT an O-like A, I obviously am. A's shouldn't be able to tolerate red meat--I not only tolerate it, I do better on it. If my blood sugar runs high I eat beef or bison--brings it right down (especially if I smother it in sauteed mushrooms) I was also tested on some things A's (and others) can't tolerate and I can't (such as liquid milk and concentrated tomato products) I can tolerate fermented milk products and a small fresh tomato occasionally. There are some other things. But I had my blood analyzed recently (I watched) and I could clearly see I am easily able to eat a great deal of animal protein (no 'sticky' red blood cells) So while I do agree with Dr. D'Adamo on blood type O and B (I have a friend who is a B and he was right on the money with her. She did SO much better following his advice, while I did not) I think he needs to do much more research on A's. He himself is a true A and his method works for him. I followed the forum for a long time and there were lots of other A's on there who were not doing well and didn't know why. My Dad was an A and was actually fairly typical according to Dr D's description--Dad loved veggies and rarely ate much meat. My Mom was an O and loved it--so did I. After reading his books I had concluded I was an O, before I even had my blood typed. Imagine my confusion when I learned I was an A. What was really wrong with me was that even as eating as an O, I was still eating too many carbs. I was (at that time) reactive hypoglycemic (precursor to diabetes, but docs didn't know that at the time--still don't even today) The *last* thing I needed to do was embark on a high-complex carb diet. Live and learn. I am still learning. So today I do a combination of LC/HP by way of Dr.Bernstein/Dr. Atkins modified by A-type/kineseologist tested food avoidances and a more 'alkaline' lifestyle (I drink lots of 'green' drink and add pH drops to my beverages to help keep me a little more alkaline)
...Summary, yes I think there is *something* to the blood type thing, but I wouldn't plunge into it wholeheartedly unless you are a B or an O.
...Sorry for the long post, but I feel very strongly about this. I'll be most happy to answer any ER4YT questions. I do feel it is a valid theory--giving up milk and nightshades was one of the best things I EVER did!

[Mefisto]

I'm A myself and got almost diabetic while on a vegetarian high complex carb low fat diet. For me even the dairy doesn't seem to do a trick I need to eat meat and sometimes lots of it to feel good.

[PaleoDeano]

I too am an A, and I too (for a much shorter time : about 3 - 6 months) was trying to follow the blood type diet. At the same time I began checking out the "low carb" diets, mainly paleo types (only meat, eggs, fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds). I actually tried to do a combo of type A diet with paleo diet. Of course, the only meat I could eat was mainly fish. This was a REAL challenge... and very quickly failed. I began to feel quite strange, and thought it was because I was lacking any grains in my diet, so I started eating bread again. I then started thinking more and more about at least trying red meat. A friend of mine who is also an A (and a strict blood type diet follower) "warned" me that I would have a lot of digestive problems trying to digest red meat. I was a quasi-vegetarian for many years and rarely ever ate red meat (in fact it disgusted me), so I was inclined to believe her. (Of course, I was a high carb (grain)/sugar addict and felt lowsy all the time!). But, I could not ignore the powerful cravings I was having for hamburgers when I was trying the combo blood type/paleo diet. So, after a month of junking out, I went back to a paleo diet, but this time ignoring the entire blood type theories, and began eating lots of red meat (especially wild meat, like Bison and Deer). I immediately noticed just how good I felt. I also realized that it was the grains that were giving me digestion problems! So, I was "converted" to a strict paleo diet (no grains, beans, potatoes, milk, refined sugars), and started dropping both pounds and body fat like crazy. I lost 20 lbs of body fat in less than two months on this diet, eating all the fruits I wanted (even high-glycemic fruits like watermelon, pineapple, bananas, etc). I began to experiment and found that I could consume up to 20 bananas a day for one solid week and continue to (slowly) lose more weight and body fat! It was mind blowing. I thought I would have to limit my carbs, but now I know it is only dairy, grains and legumes that one needs to chuck, because, naturally those foods have only been around for a mere 5,000 to 10,000 years. And that is not long enough to make even the slightest dent in our genetic makeup. Of course, I did find that the more I restricted carbs (and the more red meat I consumed) the faster the lbs (and fat) melted off. Red meat and non-starchy vegetable matter is what my ancestors thrived on, and my genes love it... no matter my blood type.

[tamarian]

Originally posted by PaleoDeano
Of course, I did find that the more I restricted carbs (and the more red meat I consumed) the faster the lbs (and fat) melted off. Red meat and non-starchy vegetable matter is what my ancestors thrived on, and my genes love it... no matter my blood type.

Welcome aborad PaleoDeano,

You've certainly done well for yourself :thup:

From my personal experience, I really do find red meat very effective, and I do well when I eat more of it. I just thought it was a coincedence, and no different that eating chicken or fish, but maybe not.

Wa'il

[cbcb]

I am also a red meat (done rare) fan. Who has a theory about why they feel better on red meat... why do so much better on red meat than fish?

The closest I could figure out to why red meat gives me nearly instant energy is its high level of carnitine, which is grouped with amino acids but isn't strictly one, which is involved in cell energy exchange, and which is fragile in terms of how much heat processing it can stand up to.

I started reading about all I could when I noticed that serious fatigue tends to lift *entirely* within a few minutes of eating a rare steak. Well-done steak doesn't do it. Iron supplements and B12 supplements don't do it. Nothing else does it.

Anyone else?

(By the way, who does MUCH better in weight loss if they have a LOT of red meat and low carbs, vs. 4 oz. to 6 oz. a day of red meat and low carbs? Anybody?)

[Janeydi]

I used to do well on mostly steaks and green veggies. But now I can be almost done with a large rare steak with spinach or other greens and actually be starving. You know that feeling? Like almost hungrier that when I started. Now obviously, my stomach is not empty, but it is a craving, none the less. If I add about 15g of starchy carb (which is hard to do on paleo) that shaky/craving goes away. A couple of Bran-a-Crisp crackers does it.

I don't get it.

I screwed up my body by going high complex carb/ultra low fat. Did that for about 4 years before the light went on. Then I went on low carb, lost 15 lbs right away and felt TONS better. Now, I've stayed there for a couple of years. I'd like to lose another 10 at least, maybe 15-20, but I can't seem to find the right mix to make that happen, and still feel good. If I don't add the carbs (and I hate grains/potatoes) I don't feel well, no energy, that still hungry feeling...but if I do eat them, I don't lose.

I don't eat near as much steak as I used to, don't crave it so much anymore. I eat much more chicken. Really don't like fish.

This WOL sures takes a lot of tweaking, for me, anyway. Finding the right mix is a challenge!

Good luck to you!

Amy

[Karen]

All this beef talk is very interesting!

Beef is one of my favourite meats but I recently had to give it up because I noticed that whenever I ate it, it didn't satisfy me. I was left with a gnawing feeling in my stomach that made me want to eat more. :( So, out went the beef.

I was thinking that it may be because most commercial beef is grain fed, but then all commercially produced meats are so that theory doesn't jive.

Janeydi, have you ever tried eating more frequent but smaller meals that include protein and vegetables? Or, add a little locally grown fruit to your meals? It sounds like your blood sugar may be out of sync.

Karen

[Janeydi]

Great minds think alike, Karen!

Yes, in fact I've been trying to eat smaller, more frequent meals.

Have you heard of Dr. Mercola? His web site put me on to a book called "The Metabolic Typing Diet". That was where I got the idea for the 15g of carbs with the steak. According to his book, I'm a mixed type (which really surprised me) and need some carbs regularly. That 15g does seem to be a magic # for me.

I try not to eat fruit with anything, seem to digest it better, although I could probably eat it 1/2 hr before everything else.

I just keep trying different things. As long as I feel well and don't gain weight, I figure I'm ahead of the game.

Thanks Karen,

Amy

[PaleoDeano]

Since my earlier post (where I talk about eating lots of fruit), I have found that it is FAT that I need. There is a VERY good book called "Life Without Bread" that gets into the cellular level about low carb diets. The authors advocate eating only 6 bread units a day of carbs (72 grams). And they also advocate eating plenty of FAT (saturated fat as well - they say the heart muscle uses saturated fat as it's primary energy source). Bacon and Eggs fried in lots of Butter, and Chicken Skins are Heart Smart!

This book blames excess insulin for many modern illnesses. This book is so scientific and has years of actual clinical trials on many patients of these two doctors (the authors), that I thought I would try it out. I have been eating lots of butter and even cheese (no milk though - just want to get the FAT from dairy). I have been eating lots of meat (especially red meat), and very low carb (only one piece of fruit per day, salads, green veggies - no grains, legumes, starch, sugar). This book points out how many nutrients are in meat - far more than veggies.

I do agree with the concept of eating smaller portions of food every four or five hours. I have heard that if you go longer without food, your body will stop using (body) fat for energy and begin breaking down muscle. But, even when I eat lots of meat (not small portions) I still lose weight (and body fat). But, smaller portions more often is better.

I think the reason I was eating so much fruit before is I simply craved sugar for energy (because I was restricting fat - being fat phobic like so many people have become). Eating lots of fruit led me to many sugar cravings/binges, which I now don't have, since I am much more satiated and have so much more sustained energy eating lots of fat.

One thing is for sure... almost everybody's metabolism has been totally messed up by all the carbs that are found in modern diets. Just think how many carbs you ate as a child! It makes me cringe just to imagine what my pancreas has gone through! And the effects of all that excess insulin running around my body!

It is probably going to take some time for my body to fully get into better metabolic functioning. I am willing to continue striving to eat mainly animal products (including plenty of fat - even saturated), and small amounts of nuts, veggies, and very small amounts of fruit (and no grains, legumes, starch, sugar). I think the longer I do this, the healthier I will become.

Actually my theory on the best diet would be one that consisted of mainly wild game meat and fish (for the fat). This diet would have a much healthier balance of omega 6/9 essential fatty acids, as well as more/better nutrients, and less toxic substances than factory raised domestic animals.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Saccharine]

if others are becoming healthier this way, Kudos to them. i can't speak for everyone, of course, but i cannot see the validity of this diet, when there are SO many more complex protien markers than just ABO and the Rh factor. there are just SO MANY! why is it that those protiens are not accounted for?
according to the blood-type diet, i should be eating mostly vegetarian. well, im on the Atkins, and am doing wonderful so far.

i plan to check this diet out further though- its so interesing! good luck!

[neanderpal]

Ok..here is what i can add to this topic. According to ER4YT I am a blood type O and therefore a meat eater. According to The Metabolic Typing Test ..I am a Protein Eater...they match up great for me. so there is SOMETHING to it. Those of you A's who didn't do well eating vegetarian..have you taken the Metabolic Typing Test..it is on this forum..someone posted the whole test. This test shows you are either metabolically a Protein Eater..A Carb Eater...or a MIxed type. For me Type O blood and Protein Eater go hand in hand..but maybe some of you A's are MIXED eaters...maybe check it out. Just a thought. :confused:

[Jeanb]

I am a Type O non -secretor and I cannot eat any type of grain, sugar or high carb anything. I absolutely love rare beef and need about 3x more protein than my A type husband.

We follow Blood Type at my house for health purposes with Atkins thrown in for good measure.

As my husband is an A, he has already had a couple of scares with cancer. When he eats red meat he has insomnia and snores and his stomach acts up. Milk is about the same.

DH and I have totally different tastes in food as well. I love salt, savory and French spices, he prefers more Italian types of spices. He eats less than I do at meals, but he snacks more often.

He likes soy, cereals, and fruit for breakfast, I need eggs and meat to get my morning started. If I would eat cereal, I would throw up.

If he needs to lose weight, he dumps 1 piece of bread from his sandwich and lightens up on the mayo. I don't eat the bread, but I add mayo and some more greens. He lost about 20 lbs by giving up milk, cheese and ice cream his favorite foods in the world.

I think everybody has their own metobolic type and I think D'adamo is onto something really big. D'adamo has found the initial key, but every human has their own special key. With D'adamo and Atkins, I have been able to refine my family's diet so well, that none of us has had a flu, migraine, cold or any other illness for about 4 years.

Compare that to my sister who weighs about 275 lbs, diabetic, on blood pressure medication, take anti-depressants and has about 5 - 6 viruses per year. My sister is A blood, drinks 2 liters of milk per day, eats nothing but white bread, chips and coke. Any guesses on what her profession is? She is constantly telling her friends about how my family eats only "brown" foods and isn't that weird....

[iamfuscia]

d'adamo makes the claim that humans developed type A around 10,000 years ago as the result of switching over to an agrarian society (which is odd if the switch wasn't made until 10,000 years ago). i have read (on the net, so watch out) that chimps and gorillas have the same blood types as humans, with the exception of AB. gorillas are apparently mostly type O while chimps are mostly type A. i don't recall ever seeing a chimp planting an ear of corn, so this really casts a lot of doubt on his theories, for me.

[ahhaba]

This URL might help to read some more about the pros and cons of 2 reviewers plus 200 other "plans" out there.

http://www.chasefreedom.com/

[phrank]

cbcb said-

"The closest I could figure out to why red meat gives me nearly instant energy is its high level of carnitine..."

Beef is also an excellent source of creatine, and that might explain some of the vigor that you've experienced..?

phrank

[Zuleikaa]

According to the authors of the Metabolic Typing Diet it's because of the high purine levels of meat. In the book there are three metabolic types. The protein type who must have about 70% protein, the carbo type that must have about 70% carbs and the mixed type which is self-explanatory. Each type has a personalized continuum which means that for each type, some might need more or less protein and tolerate more or fewer carbs.The book explains, to me, what I have always known. It is not a one size fits all diet world. The book also says that if you don't get the proper "fuel" mix for your type, it can lead to obesity and health problems.

This explains why some people can eat countless carbs yet remain thin and healthy. They are eating properly for their type. The book does go on to say that people should stay away from processed foods and sugars but that the carb type can tolerate and be well on some.

I'm a protein type of course. But protein types can also lose energy and get depressed without some carbs. Sound familiar? I also found out that eggs are not good for protein types for breakfast. They don't satisfy and hold them like meats do. Also white meat chicken doesn't hold them either. Which explains why some people complained that they were hungrier later after having chicken caesar salad. Very interesting. I've been eating eggs for breakfast as well as chicken breast and vegetables for lunch since last fall and I could never do without 4 meals a day. Since I've switched to meat and fish, I'm only eating 2-3 times a day. Amazing how certain foods can make a difference. Of course it could also be helped by the fact that SAD has lost it's grip on me. The protein type should never eat processed wheat either. I wonder why?? Protein types also need to be wary of fruits and never drink fruit juices. It unbalances their sugar levels and can result in cravings!! Also you should never eat carbs, including fruits, without eating some protein first. It buffers the insulin reactive effects.

[IPR]

This review from Westonprice is quite interesting

http://www.westonaprice.org/book_reviews/eat_right.html

Here is a section that questions the basis of the diet

Blood type as a factor in deciding what to eat? D’Adamo bases his theories on the assumption that early man had Type O blood, and that the A, B, and AB bloodtypes came long after. He claims that these later bloodtypes are genetically predisposed towards grains and milk products, foods that came in with agriculture and the domestication of animals, while Type Os are natural meat eaters. The evidence is less than convincing. Anthropologists can point to evidence that all four blood types existed back in the hunter/gatherer Paleolithic era,1 a fact that deflates Dr. D’Adamo’s entire theoretical structure.

[iamfuscia]

also, i don't know how he could continue to make his silly claims if he bothered to examine primate blood types.

[cbcb]

D'Adamo? He has.

[jaykay]

We have different blood types, because they don't matter.
They have arisen by random mutation, as many 'variations' have. The mutations that make a difference have been selected either for, or against, by evolution, so reducing the variation again. The ones that don't matter (blood type, eye colour etc.) stay.
He may well be right that we were all O once and the others appeared later.
What he doesn't explain satifactorily is how the antigens on the outside of a red blood cell affect our metabolisms and how we need to eat.
Personally, I think its a whole load of bull****.
It preys on people who:
want to feel special
want to control their weight easily
have little scientific background
ie most of us!
I believe the reason it sometimes appears to work is that we are all very different for an assortment of reasons (that variation again) - sometimes it coincides with our blood group.
Same reason horoscopes work - you say enough vague things, some of them correspond with things going on in our lives.

Just my humble (though resonably scientific) opinion
Dr Jay!

[The Duck]

Adamo is not possible under conditions of evolution. He is easy to falsify:

If a population with a food that is especially healthy for typ A, within max. 1000 years the whole population would be type A.
He suggests that blood group develops under specific conditions. But if blood group was reactive it would change under different conditions.
Btw apes have blood groups too!
I´d say it is nonsense.

The Duck

[iamfuscia]

i feel it is safe to say that d'adamo is full of crap.