Low Metabolism

[girlygirl]

HI folks,

I am 34 and have been without my thyroid for 9 years. I had papillary cancer and had it removed. I'm currently taking synthroid .175 and glucopage 500 mg. My thyroid levels are fine and healthy. However, I have continued to gain weight since I ran my first marathon last summer in June of 2002.

I had "thrown in the towel" when someone told me about a doctor at UCLA who was an endrocrinologist speciallizing in nutrition. Well, I went to see him and explained that I was following low carb, high protien, high fat and working out regularly 5 days a week. My workouts include boxing, running, wieght training, and pilates.

He put me on a machine and figured out that I'm burning 1268 calories a day. The average woman my size, 5'2", 34 years old, burns about 2500 to 3000 with my activity level. He suggested I go on Meridia, add more protein, lower fat and count calories. He also suggested 4 months of a supervised liquid high protein diet.

Are any of you familiar with this? I'm not a big fan of diet pills and counting calories sounds like a lot of work. However, I've continued to gain weight for no reason. At 34, actively dating, a liquid diet sounds a bit extreme.

I'd love any advice.

Warmly,

Girly girl.

[wimsey619]

Meridia is an appetite suppressant. Generally, people have found that eating Atkins, low carb, higher protein, it suppresses your appetite naturally.

As far as calories or a liquid diet ... I personally would not do a liquid diet unless you were extremely obese. Then I might consider it. I don't think you are obese. Overweight for your height, possibly, but not obese.

Calories for hypothyroid generally have to be on the low side. For me and others I've talked to. You might be different. I find that if I stay in the 1200-1400 range, I lose. 1400-1600, I maintain. Above that I gain.

My carbs are generally in the 30 area or below to lose. 40-50 I maintain. Above 50 I gain.

I take Levoxyl. I used to take Synthroid. I take a lot of vitamin supplements.

Everything has to be tweaked for your own body.

I think the idea behind Meridia is that if you do a liquid diet you are going to be hungry and the Meridia would suppress that hunger.

I would give a low carb diet a try before I would do that. Keep in mind that hypothyroid loses slower.

I've also read a lot of things that say that doing too much exercise is actually counterproductive for hypothyroids because it puts too much stress on your body and you release too much insulin and increases hunger and throws your body into a survival mode and it hangs onto fat.

I've read a lot that says 20-30 minutes three or four times a week of cardio and 20-30 minutes three times a week of weight resistance is much better for hypos.

Again, this is just stuff I've read and might be different for every individual.

I walk three or four times a week for about half an hour each time. I'm going to try weights after the first of the year.

I lose a little than sit for a while at a weight, than lose again.

I've lost about 55 pounds since early September.

I take CLA, GLA, Tyrosine, Carnitine, Chromium, CoQ10, Atkins Basic #3.

Virginia

[girlygirl]

Thanks Virginia,

Thank you for sharing your wisdom with me.

Yes, I agree with you. The liquid diet sounds obsessive to me too. I've been low carbing for a few years however, never watching calories. I think that running the marathon may have been what tilted my body into storage mode.

I take "super food" which is a green powder form multivitamin, calcium/magnesium, EFA, CLA, Synthroid, Glucopage, Prevacid (acid reflux), and organic iodine. Prior to the marathon I never needed Prevacid or Glucopage so what you say makes sense with the too much exercise and insulin levels.

I'm now going to start counting calories and see how that works.

Thanks for your post and CONGRATS on your wieght loss!

Warmly,

Girly

[wimsey619]

I know counting calories seems like a lot of work, but I actually don't count them. I have just fallen into the habit of eating a certain way and in general my calories stay around 1200-1400 naturally. I have to really pig out to get that high. In fact, I have to make an effort to get over 1200.

I hope you're doing okay after your cancer removal. I had breast cancer in '96. It had moved to two lymph nodes. I had lumpectomy, chemo, and radiation.

I know it doesn't make sense to a lot of people about too much exercise and hypo, but I've seen a correlation from listening to a verbal history from a lot of people. And indeed, your marathon might have been the straw that pushed you over the edge.

Good luck.

Virginia

[girlygirl]

Hi Virginia,


thanks for asking about my tyroid cancer. Yes, I'm feeling fine with the exception of my scale frustration. I went through exactly what you did and hope you are doing fine too.

Like my mom says "don't sweat the small stuff, and it's all small stuff."

My doctor says because I only burn 1268 calories a day, in order to lose wieght I must be consuming between 800-1000 calories. That's fairly difficult but, I'm logging it all in fitday.com. I'm sticking to fish and chicken protein and zuccini type veggies because they are lower calorie. I snack on nuts and cheese to get the fat.

Hugs,

Girly

[Thyroid_M]

If you went to a doctor in Los Angeles, then you must visit my doctor in Torrance, Dr. Kent Holtorf.

If you are on just Synthroid, I can tell you right now that is the cause of your stagnant metabolism and difficulty losing weight. Synthroid consists of only T4, and you need T3 to affect your energy levels & metabolism. Because your thyroid gland produces more T4 than T3, and because your body naturally converts T4 to T3, many doctors do not prescribe T3 medication. This is a shame, because T4 replaced by medication does NOT convert to T3. T3 is so important, because it is the hormone that regulates energy level & metabolim.

My mom was on Synthroid for 20 years, and I finally made her visit Dr. Holtorf in L.A. She lives on the east coast, but he is so amazing that I flew her in myself. He was able to tell, just by looking at her feet and her neck, that she was undermedicated for her hypothyroidism. He took blood tests, and began her on a new medication May of 2002. Since then, she has lost 32 pounds by doing nothing except changing her medication. Her hair is growing back in, her energy level is up, and her weight is down, just by adding T3 to her system.

I swear by this Doctor - and highly recommend him to ANYONE. If you are in this area, though, then you really have to at least visit him. If you want more information about this doctor, or any other thyroid question, drop me a line at thyroid~justice.com [thyroid AT justice.com] or you can check out my new website [still in progress!] at http://diagnosis.4t.com.

In the meantime, his information is:

Dr. Kent Holtorf, M.D.
The Hormone and Longevity Medical Center
Diplomate A.B.A.A.M.
______________________

23441 Madison St, Suite 215,
Skypark Building B
Torrance, CA 90505

Work: 310-541-7115

www.hormoneandlongevitycenter.com

I have referred many people to him in similar situations, and all have had life-changing experiences visiting with him.

Margie

[girlygirl]

Hi Margie,

Thank you so much! I just called his office and scheduled a visit for February 18th. They didn't have anything sooner and I'm on a waiting list if something comes up.

I tried emailing you but, it was bounced back. Feel free to email me at girlygirlnxtdr~yahoo.com

I'm so frustrated grasping for straws and am excited to have a new straw!

Hugs,

Girly

[girlygirl]

Margie,

Just got called they have a cancellation for tomorrow morning. I'm going in at 11:00.

I'll keep you posted on the progress. :)

I'm exstatic.

Warmly,

Girly

[BaileyWS]

Glad you are going to a new doc.

I can second the T3 advice. I'm on Levoxyl (t4) AND Cytomel (T3) also. I could feel a marked difference when I switched.

I, too, had my thyroid removed. I had a tennis-ball sized goiter on the one side and a small sac of papillary cancer on the other.

No further iodine treatment for me, but I do want to keep my TSH levels as close to 0 as possible because we don't want more thyroid cells growing.

Today I saw my family doctor (she will handle the routine thyroid stuff now) and she said that my numbers were in the normal range. I had to ask to suppress, but she readily agreed to up my Levoxyl ... I hope that will make weight loss a bit easier as well as give me a bit more energy all-around.

"Normal" is a wide range ... so even though you're in the normal range, it may not be "normal" for you. That's why a good doctor who knows the thyroid is mandatory.

I'm lucky that my family doctor, too, had thyroid cancer, so she is very current on these things.

She told me a new medication was available that mixed the T3 & T4. It was a 1xday med, but it had to be refrigerated. Since the levoxyl and cytomel was working for me, I decided to stick with them.

[girlygirl]

Wendy,

Thank you! I'm glad you are feeling better.

I had my endrocrinologist change me to Armour. He doesn't believe the T3, T4 theory but said he'd do it for 60 days to appease me.

In the meantime, I saw Margie's doctor. He had lot's of lab work done and I go back in 3 weeks for results. I really like him and feel hopeful. I'm sure he will end up changing my perscription so we'll see...

Hugs,

girly

[girlygirl]

Margie et all,

I had my second visit with Dr. H. He went over my lab results line by line. I took a friend with me because I get overwhelmed at times. She was premed and is naturally very analytical.

It turns out I was high T4, and virtually no T3. My estogen was high, my testosterone and progesterone were almost non exhistant. 40 is normal and I was .07. My cholesterol and blood pressure were good but, I was low iron (odd for high protein) and my adrenals were low. He said we would focus on my hormones and thyroid initially and it way heal the other stuff on it's own. He prescribed higher T3, testosteron and progesterone replacement, and iron. I will go back in 6 weeks for a follow up.

It just feel so good to have hope again. 30 lbs in one year is a lot for someone who works out like a maniac and monitors my food intake religiously. My girlfriend said everything he said made perfect sense and she felt very comfortable with his diagnosis.

Hugs,

Girly girl

[Thyroid_M]

Girly Girl,

I'm so glad to hear your update on your second visit with Dr. H, but more importantly, I'm glad to hear that you guys found areas that could be involved in your lethargy & weight situation. I'm also glad that you brought someone with you who is experienced, and that you both felt comfortable with what he had to tell you. I think finding a doctor who can listen and respond adequately and in a way you are comfortable with is the most important part of any health problem you might face.

I hope that he has given you some medication to address the issues you guys found off of your blood work ups, and that you start to feel better in the next few weeks before your next appointment. By the way - if that is going to be in 6 weeks, that's awful close to my appointment with him!

Margie

[girlygirl]

HI Margie,

Thank you again for your referral! I'm feel very confident in Dr. H and looking forward to fitting into my clothes this summer.

Yes, my appointment is the day before yours. :)

Hugs,

Girly Girl

[Jaggedpeac]

This is very interesting to me to see that there are options. I've been on synthroid for 28 years with weight gradually eeeking up. I've never been able to lose, not on WW or any of the other diets. I have lost on Atkins before so am back at it. I am very intersted in the info about the T3. No dr has ever mentioned anything else but synthroid. Is this why I can't lose?? Is this the reason my energy level is never as high as I think it should be? Is this why my skin is dry and creepy?? I wonder. I'm going to see if there's an endriconologist in our area, LA is a bit far to travel. Maybe my stats are all messed up too.

[diamondgal]

i just had to reply, i read all of thyroid_m posts, and i have changed dr. ... i could never lose, i even gained on akins he said from my labs i was UNDER TREATED for years, even after surgery , i am now on amour, going slow, as not to upset the heart, since i have not had t3 for so long. i am so mad i was cheated out of 8years of my life plus i have 30-40 lbs to lose . i would not mind the weight if i had the pleasure of eating the food to justify the gain!!!!!!

[unreg]

Hi all-
I found your thread of messages a few weeks ago and decided to make an appt with Dr. Holtorf as soon as I could because I was quickly becoming discouraged by the response of multiple doctors I had been going to. When I went to see my internist for my annual exam, she discovered a golf ball size csyt on my ovary. I then told her that in the last 3-6 months I had been experiencing memory loss or poor recall, irregular periods, numbness in my arms and legs that would wake me up from sleep, and that I had gained about 15lbs in less than 2 months even though I have been working out more now than ever before in my life, watching what ate and even drinking more water....she said "these things sometimes happen and we don't know why." Annual blood tests showed "normal" tsh. Went to go get a second opinion and had to pressure that doctor to do some kind of further testing of any kind to see what else it might be since we had ruled out thyroid. So I had an MRI, and Echo and some other stuff. They found mitral valve prolapses with regurgitation...and after a few other tests found out that it wasn't serious...HOWEVER...back to the original syptoms, the MVP had nothing to do with it. So, I still had this hunch it was something thyroid related and although everyone I talked to (chiropracter, acupunturist and 2 internist) told me that it couldn't be thyroid...I still followed my hunch and made the appt with Dr. Holtorf. I had my visit on 09-08-04 and cannot wait to see if the blood tests reveal that I am not crazy. Girly girl, I am SO anxious to see how you are feeling now and what changes you have noticed. Specifically I have the most strange and uncomfortable bloating/weight gain in my waist area and even upper belly...which is so strange for me. It's making me depressed as I have grown out of pretty much all of my clothes in less that 3 months. I pray that you are doing well and noticing wonderful and encouraging changes since your visit with Dr. Holtof. Please keep me posted!!

[girlygirl]

Hi Sharig,

I'm so sorry to hear about your frustrations with your health. I have been seeing Dr. Holtorf a few times a year and am very happy to report I'd doing very well. I love my compound thyroid meds and admitably, am no longer perfect with my diet. I am good during the week, and then allow myself wine and dessert with dinner on the weekends. I have been eating some bread on the weekends too, in small amounts. Like today I had a half of turkey sandwich on a whole grain bread with a bowl of veggie soup and some tea. Before Holtorf, this would have caused me extreme bloating to the point of discomfort and needing to unbutton my pants and take off my shoes. Today, there was zero affect.

I had my annual with my Dr. at UCLA last month. He couldn't believe that I had lost 20lbs and my bodyfat is 17%. It was at 47% when I saw him initially before meeting Holtorf. They also did an exam, for my body age, based on my cholesteral, heart beat, treadmill, bodyfat, blood pressure, estrogen, etc... I'm chronologicallly 36 but my body is 26.

I will say a prayer for you. Also, the diet I follow primarily is "LA Shape Diet" written by David Heber, my doctor at UCLA.

Best wishes, and thanks for sharing your story. Please keep me posted and let me know if I can help you in any way. Girly girl nxt dr at yahoo dot com

[Thyroid_M]

Shariq,

I'm excited to hear that you have seen Dr. H - You will be amazed at the help he will be able to give you! By the time I had seen Dr H, I had practically given up. I KNEW I had a problem with my thyroid, because of my family history and my symptoms. I couldn't find a doctor who saw it. When multiple doctors had told me that my BLOOD TESTS told me that I was "normal", I started to question myself. I mean, a blood test is a quantifiable assessment of data - right? Dr H was my last hope, and I went to see him with the prompting of my husband. It was incredible, having a doctor not only listen to my complaints, but in some way, validate them. He was able to see the entire picture - not dismiss each complaint individually!! For instance, the doctor before Dr H told me that I was losing my hair because I wore it in a ponytail too often, that I was gaining weight because I was on the pill, and that I was cold and sluggish because I was depressed!! None of which were correct, obviously. Dr. H was able to take them all together.

Ultimately, I'm very excited for you because I know you are about to have your symptoms and complaints in some way validated. Dr H will listen and offer constructive suggestions to make you feel better. And that he did. I have put on the weight that I initially lost, but I am admittedly not eating all THAT well. [I know that if I had the time to go back to WW full time, I'd see results.] I am not losing my hair, I am not always cold or sluggish, I don't get a cold at the drop of a pin, and I'm happy. The winter I started meds was the FIRST winter that I didn't get a cold that lasted for weeks and took me out of work!

I have more information on my story and Dr H at my site. If you are interested in checking any of that out go to http://diagnosis.4t.com. In the meantime, chin up! And keep us posted on your results - I'm on pins & needles!!

Margie :agree:

[jaykay]

Margie, that's really interesting what you say about catching colds. In the last year I've had flu, two major chest infections, about three colds and viral meningitis. And its the last year I've had hypo symptoms. In fact, it was me keep catching things, when normally I'm really fit and healthy that started me on the track of hassling the docs to test me for hypo.
Glad you've found a doc that's sorting things out for you - that's my next step.
Take care, Jay

[girlygirl]

Hi Jay,

Regarding the colds and flu's. I was a vegetarian for four years. All four of those years I had a cold. Once I began eating meet again, my colds went away. I'm wondering if you have too much mucos (diary products and soy can cause this) or if you are not eating enough protein.

It's hard to imagine, since you are a low carb person. However, it could be a factor. I know when get a cold, I double up on my soups, and protein and it goes away faster.

I wish you luck in finding the right doctor. If you go to the aboutthyroid.com site there is a listing of good endrocrinologists that other tyroid patients have recommended all over the country.

Warmly,

Athena

[Thyroid_M]

Jay,

I was a vegetarian for . . . 10 years? 1993 til 2000 religiously, 2000 - 2003 on and off. Anyways, I had no problem with colds whatsoever until 1997, around the same time I noticed weight gain and hair loss. For me, I don't think my diet impacted my sensitivity to colds as much as my undiagnosed hypothyroidism.

Starting at around that time, every winter I carried a big box of tissues with my to class. My nose was always red. I felt miserable. Every August, I worried about my impending colds. I was never like that before. And my husband used to flip out when we would go on vacation and I would inevitably get sick. He would tell me - it's all in your mind! Get over it! Every holiday or vacation you get sick - stop it!! And it was true; every time I rode in a plane I was guaranteed to catch someone else's cold with all the recirculated air. 100%.

I didn't even think that was a symptom of hypothyroidism - I just thought that was me. When I started thyroid meds, I didn't expect to lose that sensitivity to getting colds. When New Years rolled around that year and I realized that I hadn't gotten a winter-time cold AND I didn't get sick after either of my holiday trips - I was floored. It was the first time. And since I started my meds? I've only gotten a winter cold once - and it was because it was going around. It lasted just as long as everyone else's did - not the entire winter!

Like Girly said, Mary Shomon's site has a wonderful listing of doctors that are recommended by patients in their area. It is the Top Doc Directory at www.thyroid.about.com. It is fabulous, because it isn't just doctors who advertise as specialists or good or anything - it is doctors who have earned that reputation by their patients. And they are only there because they were recommended by a patient. I highly recommend you check that out!!

If you are going to see a doc, I would recommend that you bring some information with you. You should have a general familiarity with the symptoms of hypothyroidism, and you should go equipped with a journal of your morning body temperature. Also, a journal of your heart rate would help. For more information on that [and for an explanation as to why these would be helpful] you can check out the "What To Do Now" section on my site.

Margie

[jaykay]

Hi Athena and Margie, thanks for all the support. I don't think its lack of protein, as you say, we low-carbers eat a lot of it. My hubby is very sensitive to dairy, he gets sinus infections if he eats a lot of it. I'm not too bad, I really think the awful year I've had it related to hypothyroid.
My doc doesn't understand about the basal temperature test, I took my temps in last time and she said 'not to worry they're low, our metabolism slows down at night' Yes I know that, but not down to 96.6.
Still, at least she did the T3 and T4 tests, which showed up low T3. Maybe I can talk her into Armour. If not, I'm going to ask for a referral to an endo, apparently there's a good one not too far from here.
Thanks for the support, hope everyone else is winning too!
Take care, Jay

[Thyroid_M]

Jay,

FYI - many doctors out there believe low body temperature is enough of a symptom to diagnose hypothyroidism. In fact, my doctor [Dr. H!] believes that it is the single best thing to look at to determine hypothyroidism. That is because there is thyroid present in every single cell of your body - therefore, there can't truly be one single test to determine how your body absorbs the hormone. Although a multitude of tests can give you an idea - sometimes the body's temperature alone is the best gauge.

See:

Dr. Broda Barnes
Hypo-Thyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness
pg: 42-48

"The body thermostat of a thyroid-deficient person may call for more heat, but thyroid hormone is essential for the oxidation or burning of fuel in the body, and in the thyroid-deficient person body temperature falls below normal because of inadequate oxidation" pg. 42

" I could report in 'The Journal of the American Medical Association' on a study with one thousand college students whose basal temperatures were taken and who also received basal metabolism tests. The study indicated that a subnormal body temperature is a better index of hypothyroidism and the need for thyroid treatment than the basal metabolic rate." pg. 43

"Thus, it seemed that axillary, or underarm, terperature might serve as a simple guid to determining low thyroid function and the need for thyroid therapy . . .A temperature below 97.8 indicates hypothyroidism" pg. 46

"When no other reason can be found, no clear-cut diagnosis made, to explain the presence of symptoms or a whole complex of symptoms, it is worthwile taking a thermometer to bed with you . . . A reading below the normal range of 97.8 to 98.2 strongly suggests low thyroid function." pg. 48

Or, see:

Dr. Wilson
http://www.wilsonssyndrome.com/IdentifyingTheProblems.htm

"Under periods of stress (such as childbirth, divorce, or death of a loved one) the metabolism can slow down as a coping mechanism. That's a normal response the body uses to conserve energy. After the stress has passed, the metabolism is supposed to return to normal but sometimes it doesn't. The metabolism can remain persistently slow, as demonstrated by a low body temperature, even though the stress has passed. This condition is known as Wilson's Thyroid Syndrome (WTS) because it causes low-thyroid-like symptoms and because it often responds characteristically well to a special thyroid medicine treatment, even though thyroid blood tests are often normal (You can use the links at the top left of this page to find out more about WTS). When the metabolism slows down it can adversely affect all other bodily functions . . ."

Another doctor well known for his position on low body temperatures and their significance for hypothyroidism is Dr. Lowe. Although I can't find a ready quote for you from his site [I will be looking!] his site can be accessed at www.drlowe.com

Armed with this information, perhaps you can get more response from your doctors when you point to your extremely low body temperature!!

Margie :yum:

[jaykay]

That's brilliant Margie, thanks!.My doc is going to get so much to read tomorrow! We'll see what she says. I have a horrible feeling it will be 'carry on with the thyroxine' but maybe I'm wrong and she's really enlightened. Fingers crossed, Jay

[unreg]

Margie and Athena-
Quick question for you...of all the 28 blood tests he ordered, he didn't check off:

anti-tsh antibody
anti-t3 antibody
anti-t4 antibody
Thyroid stim immunoglob

I thought those were important to check too?
Shereen

[Da Rosa]

Hmmmm.... Wilsons syndrome, eh?! Thats sounds very possible... I have had alot of stressfull periods, I still do. Ill take that up with my doc tomorrow. Thanks alot Margie!

[Thyroid_M]

Da Rosa - Let us know how the doctor's visit went!

Shariq - I'm not an expert on tests, but I know what Dr. H has shared with me and what I've gleaned through books. The tests that you've mentioned? I'm not familiar with them. Now, the plain old TSH test, T3/Free T3 Tests, T4/Free T4 tests, are something different than what you've mentioned. Those tests are helpful.

If Dr. H ordered some tests over others, then I suspect he has a feeling for what is wrong with you already and is just looking for tests to confirm it. And, since I've never heard of those test, there is a possibility that they are out of date tests.

SO - how did the visit with him go?????

[unreg]

Margie-
The tests I mentioned were on the lab request sheet, but they weren't checked. I had just heard about those anitbody tests from other websites, and I was just concerned because he didn't order them. I just had my TSH tested in July and he saw the results...and they were 1.77(normal) so, I wasn't sure why he had them re-ordered. But, you know what. If he finds something he can treat, I don't care what he orders! :-) The visit was fast an furious. He was nice, but also matter of fact and pretty speedy. He explained things very fast and just slightly over my head. I guess I was expecting someone to kind of do a "there there...you aren't crazy I understand how hard this has been for you, good job for being so persistent blah blah blah." But I can get over it if he can help me to feel better. I'm sure he spends all day seeing patients just like me, but I've been jumping doctor to doctor looking for someone to show some compassion as well as believe in me, and he was doctor number 5. Please dont get me wrong, I feel super lucky to have been led to him, and like I said, if he can help me feel better, it's all good!
The hard part is going to be waiting another 2 weeks for the lab work to come back. I have a question though, you may not have had this symptom, but I am soooooo bloated in my whole midsection and have gained 19lbs since May. My stomach is just squishy and weird feeling. Do you have any idea if this will go away and if so how long will it take?
Thanks again for all your help and your listening ear. Right now I am just feeling so strange. Very irritated for NO REASON, tired (today I went to Pilates and I just wanted to take a nap about half way through and my back was aching, which it never ever hurt before in class), bloated and just mad at myself for feeling like I'm complaining about nothing and I should be more of a grateful person. Ay ya yai....anyway...again, thank you for your ear, I am thankful to have found everyone on this site because it is very encouraging to speak to people who have some idea of what I am talking about.
I will keep you posted on the results (beginning of Oct)
Love!
Shereen

[cbcb]

a new medication was available that mixed the T3 & T4. It was a 1xday med, but it had to be refrigerated.

Does anyone know what this med might be called, or for that matter how anyone's experience with it has gone?

[unreg]

Hi all!
Just wanted to send an update. Although Margie has already heard this news before ;-)
I got my labs faxed to me for my appt with Dr. Holtorf and I was freaking out thinking I was some sort of head case because everything was within the normal ranges!! When I talked to him though he said he thought my free testosterone was too low (<.5 showing too low to calculate) and my cortisol total serum was too low (4.3 and I think he said he would like it to be between 8-16). My TSH was 2.296 (and he said he would like to see if we can get it under 1.0) and that my free T3 was 4.55 just slightly high which made him think that I was thyroid resistance. At any rate, I got all my pills on Thursday of last week and it's been 3 days since I've been taking them (thyroid, Iron, Cortisol, testosterone, inostitol and buluoke (don't ask me what the last two are for because I haven't the slightest). So far I don't feel any changes, but I have my eyes wide open to notice any and all changes that are coming my way!
:-)
Shereen

[girlygirl]

Shereen,

I'm so glad you are feeling better. I want you to also read two books. One is the "cortisol connection" and the other is "The owl is the bakers daughter" they are about the bodies resistance to metabolising do to stress.

This is why you got cortisol from Dr. H. This is a hormone in the brain that tells the body to burn fat or not to. If the body thinks you are starving, it will store fat. They've put people in the hospital on 500 calorie diets and they continue to gain weight. It's wild but helps you understand the mind/body connection. Also, the body builds muscle with testosterone so if you are not manufacturing it, all the exercise in the world won't help you build muscle.

The levels you have, based on these tests are amazing...thank God you went to see Dr. H.

Congrats! I know you are on your way to recovery...!!

Hugs,

Atheba

[unreg]

I've been taking my medication for a week now, and I am not noticing anything significant yet. I was hoping the bloating in my stomach would have started to shrink...but nothing yet. I am so frustrated with the weight gain!! In March I was wearing a size 6 and now I am looking stuffed into a size 10. How long will it take for the body to start letting go of the water (I hope its water) and fat (which it probably is more fat than anything else now) Like I said, I have my eyes open for changes....but I get really discouraged really fast..anyone have any motivation to keep me in good spirits?
-Shereen

[doloresrod]

Hi Shereen, What was the dose of the thyroid medicine that your doctor prescribed? If he put you on a low dosage then you may not see a difference until your medication is adjusted to the right dose. I know when I was put on Armour thyroid, I started out on a low dose and not until I was on 1 1/2 grains did I notice a difference and that was like 4-6 weeks later. Not to discourage you because from being a couch potato a year ago and now walking 3 miles a day believe me you will definitely notice a difference when you are on the right dose. Plus I am 27 pounds lighter. My endo. just added a compound T4 to my medicine about 7-8 weeks ago because my Free T4 was still not where it should be and that has helped a lot because I was at a stall to lose weight and when I started that the weight started coming off again.
You will definitely be noticing a difference. Hang in there!!

Dolores

[Natrushka]

Shareen, Dolores is right - you may not feel well until you hit the optimal dose. I started out very low and felt OK after a few weeks but it wasn't until 4-5 weeks later with inceases in meds that I started to feel like 'the old me'. If you've been on a particular dose for longer than two weeks and you're not noticing improvements I would call and talk to my doctor asking for an increase in meds. Make sure you go up slowly, you don't want to go hyper (not fun!). Hang in there, once your levels are optimized and you get your FTs up and TSH down below 1 you'll probably have an easier time losing the weight.

Nat

[unreg]

I am on 1/4 grain right now, and I go up to a1/2 grain starting tomorrow. Thank you for your encouragement...I guess I thought I would start noticing the difference immediately....I have a fear in the back of my mind that nothing is going to change...Thanks again though!!!

[Natrushka]

Shereen, 1/4 grain is very very low, most doses start at 1/2 grain unless you have a history of heart problems. I doubt you'd notice much of anything on 1/4.

Are you splitting your dose? You might find if you take 1/4 in the morning and the other 1/4 in the afternoon - roughly 6 hours appart you'll feel better longer (just taking one dose can leave you dragging later on since the T3 in the Armour only lasts 8 hours or so).

Nat

[unreg]

Nat-
I start the 1/2 grain tomorrow, I think Dr. Holtorf is trying to work me up to it? Also, I don't think I can split my pill since it's is a capsule made at a compounding pharmacy (not an actual pill) hopefully then next week will be better since I will be on the 1/2 grain. Did you have any bloating before you started on medication? Particularly in the waist area?

[Natrushka]

Sheree, if its compounded then there is no need to split - it's time released and that is a good thing.

Bloating? Ha, I hadn't been able to wear my rings for months. Mine was mostly in my hands and feet. It has lessened somewhat but not completely. Be happy you're on something with T3 in it, this takes care of the bloating a lot faster and better than just T4.

[tigger64]

Hi Shereen!

I have been reading this thread and am very interested in what you are taking for low cortisol. Is it Cortef (SP?)? I have been told that my morning cortisol is low and all other times are at the lowest end of normal. When I asked about taking natural cortisol, I was told how horrible that was because it causes your adrenals to stop producing cortisol and how horrible that was. However, a book I read--Thyroid Power--indicated that low levels of natural cortisol--5 mg? maybe--was the way to go cause it allowed the adrenals to rest.

I also have the lower squishy tummy. I am hoping I get treated for both low thyroid and low cortisol, cause I have heard that if you treat the thyroid without addressing adrenal fatigue, you actually will feel worse. Any info that you can provide will certainly be appreciated.

Tig :)

[unreg]

Tig-
I am on 10mg of natural cortisol 1x per day. It has only been a week and I don't feel anything very different.I'm not sure what I am supposed to be noticing though...
:-)
Shereen

[tigger64]

Thanks for responding! Please keep us updated on how you are doing!

Tig :)

[unreg]

Does anyone know why/how thyroid causes bloating? I understand about the weight gain because it regulates metabolism, but what about the bloating, and why does it seem to congregate around the midsection? Does anyone know?

[Natrushka]

Does anyone know why/how thyroid causes bloating? I understand about the weight gain because it regulates metabolism, but what about the bloating, and why does it seem to congregate around the midsection? Does anyone know? Your thyroid dose regulate metabolism, but metabolism includes the workings of every cell in your body. This is why hypoT often includes symptoms of high cholesterol; lipid metabolism is being compromised. Other hormones are also often out of balance because your thyroid is out of balance and your metabolism is messed up, the biggest one in women is estrogen. Symptoms of hypothyroidism are often mistaken to be those of PMS; swollen breasts, bloating, food cravings, mood swings, cyclical migraine headaches, lack of sexual desire, short cycles, heavy bleeding cycles, etc.

If your T3 is very low and you're female very often you also have estrogen dominance, which feels just like severe PMS. This explains why using a drug like Armour, which contains both T4 and T3, relieves bloating and weight gain more effectively than just a T4 med (like synthroid or eltroxin).

I am not sure if it always accumulates around the midsection, but if your cortisol was also high (another hormone that is greatly effected by thyroid - low thyroid often equates with high cortisol, as does high estrogen) then this would make sense - cortisol tends to cause fat to accumulate around the midsection.

HTH
Nat

[unreg]

actually my t3 was borderline high and my tsh was 2.297 so I am on t3/t4 but I am also taking cortisol because apparently that is too low. I am just confused. I am starting to get depressed about it...I am so unhappy at this weight and I feel like I've been working out really hard with reverse results for so many months...why bother working at all...ya know?

[Da Rosa]

Your thyroid dose regulate metabolism, but metabolism includes the workings of every cell in your body. This is why hypoT often includes symptoms of high cholesterol; lipid metabolism is being compromised. Other hormones are also often out of balance because your thyroid is out of balance and your metabolism is messed up, the biggest one in women is estrogen. Symptoms of hypothyroidism are often mistaken to be those of PMS; swollen breasts, bloating, food cravings, mood swings, cyclical migraine headaches, lack of sexual desire, short cycles, heavy bleeding cycles, etc.

If your T3 is very low and you're female very often you also have estrogen dominance, which feels just like severe PMS. This explains why using a drug like Armour, which contains both T4 and T3, relieves bloating and weight gain more effectively than just a T4 med (like synthroid or eltroxin).


Hi, Im also hypo (hashi I think) and also mingt have PCOS. Havent had my TOM in a year, TSH in a little high 2.5, FT4 at the midle range 14 and FT3 at the bottom range 3,1, some other hormones are out of wak and my doc found some ovarian cysts on the sonogram. But, my estrogen is very low... what/why would that be and is here anthing I could do about all of these in the meantime?

[Natrushka]

actually my t3 was borderline high and my tsh was 2.297 so I am on t3/t4 but I am also taking cortisol because apparently that is too low. Shereen, I understand complete about being frustrated. You're not alone!

When you say your T3 was high was that a total or your FT3? If it's just your Totel T3 it could still be that your FT3 is not high enough, which would explain why you feel as you do. Also, if you're only a natural med you could need more T4, the ratio in the pig thyroid is not the same as the ratio our bodies make and many people need to add in some sythetic T4 to compensate.

If your cortisol is low it's probably an indication of an adrenal issue and it will come around; it just doesn't happen overnight. I suspect that once this is corrected and your TSH comes down to 1 ish you'll notice a difference.

Hang in there,
Nat

[Natrushka]

Hi, Im also hypo (hashi I think) and also mingt have PCOS. Havent had my TOM in a year, TSH in a little high 2.5, FT4 at the midle range 14 and FT3 at the bottom range 3,1, some other hormones are out of wak and my doc found some ovarian cysts on the sonogram. But, my estrogen is very low... what/why would that be and is here anthing I could do about all of these in the meantime?

Hi Da Rose. Has your doctor increased your meds based on these tests? Your Fts really need to come up, they are too low w/in the range (your high TSH indicates this as well)

Are you taking Selenium? It can really help with symptoms, especially if you're dealing with Hashi's. Se is vital in the conversion of T4 to T3, and you really need to get your T3 higher. You should probably start out with 200mcg of selenium for a month and then cut back to 100mcg. Going over 200mcg for extended period of time can result in toxidity and it actually harmful for thyroid conversion and production. The selenium also counteracts the antibodies that are doing all the damage to your thyroid.

I am not well versed in PCOS but I can tell you that the two, PCOS and hypoT do often show up together, as does Type II diabetes. Following a LC WOE helps both PCOS and Diabetes so you're on the right track. Sorry I can't help more.

Nat

[cbcb]

actually my t3 was borderline high and my tsh was 2.297 so I am on t3/t4 but I am also taking cortisol because apparently that is too low. I am just confused. I am starting to get depressed about it...I am so unhappy at this weight and I feel like I've been working out really hard with reverse results for so many months...why bother working at all...ya know?

Well, excess cortisol can cause weight gain... and working out also causes cortisol release.

You can get your cortisol levels checked - important to do a round-the-clock test vs. one-time... most docs do a '24 hr urinary cortisol' vs. a 3-4x/day saliva test. But some alternative docs do the latter, and you can also order those tests yourself without a doc online.

[Natrushka]

Well, excess cortisol can cause weight gain... and working out also causes cortisol release.

You can get your cortisol levels checked - important to do a round-the-clock test vs. one-time... most docs do a '24 hr urinary cortisol' vs. a 3-4x/day saliva test. But some alternative docs do the latter, and you can also order those tests yourself without a doc online. cbcb, you're right about excess cortisol causing weight gain, especially around the middle. However, Sheree's cortisol has been tested and it's too low.

actually my t3 was borderline high and my tsh was 2.297 so I am on t3/t4 but I am also taking cortisol because apparently that is too low.

[Da Rosa]

Hi Da Rose. Has your doctor increased your meds based on these tests? Your Fts really need to come up, they are too low w/in the range (your high TSH indicates this as well)

Im acctually not on aany treatment right now and Iv got my very first endo apointment in november. What bothers me is that I wont get to check for antibodys, insulin resistanse levels or progestrogen. I know I should but the nurse said Ill just have to take that up with him then to then do another set of test.


Are you taking Selenium? It can really help with symptoms, especially if you're dealing with Hashi's. Se is vital in the conversion of T4 to T3, and you really need to get your T3 higher. You should probably start out with 200mcg of selenium for a month and then cut back to 100mcg. Going over 200mcg for extended period of time can result in toxidity and it actually harmful for thyroid conversion and production. The selenium also counteracts the antibodies that are doing all the damage to your thyroid.

Acctually Im not taking selenium, but I am taking CLA or Omega 3. Ill start the selenuim right away. I got a question though, on the swedush thyroid threds they keep mentioning that one should do a test for lack of vitamin B12. Do they mean that one isnt eating enough of that or that the body doesnt use it properly, what do you think?


I am not well versed in PCOS but I can tell you that the two, PCOS and hypoT do often show up together, as does Type II diabetes. Following a LC WOE helps both PCOS and Diabetes so you're on the right track. Sorry I can't help more.

Nat

Ooh no, got another bit of info for ya, hypothyroid AND diabetes of both sorts goes in the family.... and Im not really lowcarbing right now. Just semi, kinda like maintainanse. I wasnt doing vell at all, still gaing and it was just stressing me out. To much calories on so little food? But Im slowly going back... without the stress and obsessing.

Thaank you so much! Im so glad to hear there is something I could do about this, b/c I have gained a crazy amout of weight (10 kilos=22lb (?) in 2 months) and Im sick of feeling foggyminded, bad bad memory, lack of consentration. This all affects my life, but mostly my school preformanse big time! I cant wait to get to talk to my endo and take all that Iv learned about hypo with him.

Again, muuchas gracias!

[Natrushka]

I got a question though, on the swedush thyroid threds they keep mentioning that one should do a test for lack of vitamin B12. Do they mean that one isnt eating enough of that or that the body doesnt use it properly, what do you think?


Hi again, Da Rosa. Sounds like you've been through thyroid hell. I hope things get straighted up for you when you do get in to see the specialist. Be sure you take a firm stand; don't let them tell you 'its all in your head!". I found that when I took my husband with me to the doctors it went a lot better; having someone who can thinking clearly and say "this person is not normal anymore; something is very wrong' really helped get the point across. It was also good for moral support.

Re the B12 deficiency test; B12 deficiency is something that can take years to show up, but it's happening in the mean time. It's something they test when you say you're tired, fatigued, are often confused, are short of breath and suffer from things like diarrhea and loss of appetite - some of the symptoms are similar to hypoT. Having a thyroid disease can also lower B12 in the body, so it's a test that makes sense. My blood work actually came back slightly low, so I'm taking 1000mcg of B12 now, sublingually - just to be safe.

Cheers,
Nat

[Da Rosa]

Hi Nat! I dont know if its b/c Im back LCing or if its the selenium, but I have felt much better these last two days. Thank ouy so much for that tip. Oh, and I havent had any of my typical constipations and/or diarea either. Any conection there ya think?

Anyway, again thank you!

[Natrushka]

Hi Nat! I dont know if its b/c Im back LCing or if its the selenium, but I have felt much better these last two days. Thank ouy so much for that tip. Oh, and I havent had any of my typical constipations and/or diarea either. Any conection there ya think?
If you've got Hashi's then yes, it probably would have an effect. The selenium can knock out up to 63% of the antibodies, and the symptoms that they produce - remember it's not your thyroid that is messed up, it's the antibodies that have hijacked it.

Glad it helped :)
Nat

[Da Rosa]

So torn and confused!

I had my meeting with the endo today. He said I do not have any type of hypothyrid and that my fts arent at the high range doesnt matter if my TSH isnt elevated and that the T3 treatments are a "flaky" theorie. He also said to not take L-tyrosin and thet it causes stess instead of decreasing it (it sais 'anti-stress' on the bottle)!

These are the new results:

S-Kortisol: 380........................................... nmol/L
S-Tyrotropin TSH: 1.5......................0.4-4.7 mU/L
S-Trijodtyronin frit (Free T3): 3.7.....3.0-6.5 pmol/L
S-Tyroxin, fritt, FT: 14........................12-23 pmol/L
S-Androstendion: *12.......................3.2-9.9nmol/L
S-Foll.stim.horm,FSH: 6.1.............................IU/L
S-Luteiniser hormon: 7,3.............................IU/L
S-DHEA-sulfat: 5.6............................2.0-11 umol/L
S-Prolaktin: 5.9.....................................<18 ug/L
S-Sexhormbind glob: 25.>19 years:25-105 nmol/L
S-Testosteron,S-T: 1.2....prepubertet:<0.7 nmol/L

He also said that my FSH/LH are good and that the previos one also was. Ok, the ones I have now are better but then he said that the ratio 'count' only applies when the FSH is lower than the LH. (I think this was what he said?!)

But he does think that I have PCOS due to some other numers, so he wants me to come back in a month to check if Im insulin resistant and then he wants me to start taking Metoformin. NoBimbo, anything missing here?

I was crying the whole time, as usual... just fustrated with the fact that he totaly rejected what I knew about the free T3s and such. They are still low and... I dont know, what do you think?

ps. I got my peripd today after not having had it in more than a year!

[Natrushka]

He said I do not have any type of hypothyrid and that my fts arent at the high range doesnt matter if my TSH isnt elevated and that the T3 treatments are a "flaky" theorie.

S-Tyrotropin TSH: 1.5......................0.4-4.7 mU/L
S-Trijodtyronin frit (Free T3): 3.7.....3.0-6.5 pmol/L
S-Tyroxin, fritt, FT: 14........................12-23 pmol/L

S-DHEA-sulfat: 5.6............................2.0-11 umol/L

I was crying the whole time, as usual... just fustrated with the fact that he totaly rejected what I knew about the free T3s and such. They are still low and... I dont know, what do you think?

I think you need a new doctor, Da Rosa, this one is plain old stupid. Your TSH is meaningless; your FTs are LOW (both T4 and T3 are low). Are you able to find someone else to treat you? This endo doesn't know thyroid, which is not suprising, many of them don't.

Your DHEA looks low to me, but I will leave that to someone more qualified than I (Wanda, help!). I believe these hormones are like thyroid, where you fall in the range matters and yours looks low to my untrained eye.

I really hope you can get to see someone else.
Nat

[wcollier]

Da Rosa, parts of your story sound similar to mine, minus the PCOS. I stopped ovulating for several months and so I got FSH and LH tests done to find them normal. Then I ended up getting saliva tests done (which are more accurate at testing the free hormones, not bound hormones) and my estrogen levels were sky high.

My TSH was initially 2.05 with low normal FT3 and FT4 like you as well. My doc went with thyroid replacement and now I belive that after 8 years of struggling with my health that I'm finally onto something. Don't give up. Nat's right (as usual). Find another Doc who will treat you. Here's a link to help you: http://www.thyroid-info.com/topdrs/

Nat, I'm no expert on DHEA, but I can relay my experience. I'm not sure how I feel about DHEA-S blood tests. Mine showed my blood test levels equivalent to a 70-79 year old. :eek: It didn't use a specific lab range based by age for some reason. But my saliva tests (testing the free hormone, not bound hormone) showed normal levels.

I think the reference ranges for DHEA-S are skewed, just like so many of the other lab tests so it's hard to sort out what's normal and what isn't. I've also heard that DHEA should be tested by age group, not lumping everyone together since DHEA declines with age. Women also need less of it.

BUT, if DHEA is low, it's a fairly good indicator of adrenal fatigue. I just don't know how the results are interpreted on a blood test that doesn't really have adequate reference ranges. I'd be more inclined to get a 4 point cortisol saliva test to determine adrenal function.

Wanda

[Da Rosa]

I just weighed myself for the first time in 10 days: 178.5 lb :eek:..........Thats a pound per day!

Wanda- Yes, we have a very similar story. Im so glad its all working for you. I could bring you up as an example when I talk to him the next time. :thup:

I posted what happend in a swedish mailthread and asked for good doctors in stockholm, I got alot of responses and support as well as here. There is a woman whom will acctually come with me the next time, as moral support and to push my doc a little more. If that doesnt work Ill get another.

What I did do is call this phoneline where they help you with all kinds of question about what rights you have, how and what to do. They said the first step would be to talk to the headchefe in the klinik and talk this over with him, also about the change of doctors.

I havent been dieting (2000 cals.30-80 carbs) but maan, I cant believe I could gain this much!

[Natrushka]

Da Rosa, it's sad that we have to go to such lengths to get help but it's good that you're standing up for yourself. Please keep us posted!

Nat

[amandaj777]

Hello Everyone!

I suffer with Hashimoto's Thyroiditis. I was diagnosed in August by Dr. Tenanbaum from Dr. Holtorfs center. My journey has been very long.

Although I'm still being attended to by Dr. T, I have yet to be successfully treated for my thyroid with any type of Thyroid replacement thus far. My adrenals are part of the problem. Tired adrenals sometimes cannot handle the stress of a metabolism booster from thyroid meds. Dr. T has had me on T4/T3 combination and just T4 but the symptoms get worse so I've had to stop taking any medication for the thyroid. I've had success with the cortisol he put me on as far as helping me out of my terrible fatigue which was the most difficult. I used a 15 mg. dose for about 3 months and now he has weaned me off. So far so good with the tiredness not returning but I'm not 100%.

But as far as the weight gain, Girly, I hear ya. Nothing I do helps as far as that goes. I work out religiously and have been for years. I don't over do it either. I've spent literally thousands of dollars on nutritional supplements and expert nutritionist visits. I've dieted on Atkins (worked for a year then it all came back) Now I'm on the Maker's Diet by Jordin Rubin. Love it, but hard to find much of the foods without shopping in 3 markets.

I have another appointment in March to see Dr. T again. Hopefully, he can prescribe something to get me on the road to losing the weight now and help me get this thyroid healthy. I am 22-25 lbs overweight. For now I'm on testosterone (very low by the tests) and progesterone cream (this I've been on for many years when I tested myself with a saliva test and found I had none) and a product called EsClear to reduce bad estrogen. Vitatmin C, Selenium, L-tyrosine, B6, B5, codliver oil, Primal Defense, and a magnesium/calcium/zinc/potassium supplement. I've been able to narrow it down to these essentials for my body.

I also eat a high protein, grass-fed beef, organic chicken and good fats like flax meal. Mostly fish (cod, tuna, sardines). Lots of green leafy veggies and I try to juice on the weekends. I have read many good books on hypothyroid too. I am getting better, but slowly. I am hopeful that God will lead me to the right help. I will not ever give up trying. I am a 48 year old woman who loves life! I have a happy marriage, wonderful kids and a great job.

[cbcb]

But as far as the weight gain, Girly, I hear ya. Nothing I do helps as far as that goes. I work out religiously and have been for years. I don't over do it either.

Bravo on all you've attempted.. sometimes the weight loss thing just defies conventional wisdom about what 'should' work! :P

Anyhow, the only .02 I wanted to pitch in was about keeping good tabs on your levels... I have low normal estrogen myself, so was thinking of the need to not suppress yours too far. Also, FWIW, I tried natural progesterone cream and it only made me gain a little weight and feel ick. I think that whole axis of progesterone/estrogen is really finicky.

Sometimes of course when the adrenals are stresses, cortisol goes too high rather than too low. I found it useless to have done a 24 hr urinary cortisol at an endocrinologist's.. it showed me normal.. because it takes the cortisol values from a day's urine output. But a 4x/day salivary test for cortisol illuminated what was really going on... I had way low levels in the a.m. (hence my a.m. tiredness) and way high levels in the p.m. (hence the night owl). I've felt better since taking a little phosphatidyl serine supplement in the afternoon, which helps to blunt cortisol rise.

So if you still have cortisol issues and don't know about the through-the-day production of the hormone in your body, might be helpful to try at least a 2x/day salivary test, a 4x is better. The former's $60-80 and the latter more like $140. Bunch of places online to get them like BodyBalance.com ... and also at some docs' - the more progressive/slightly alternative docs', that is.

[amandaj777]

Hi CBCB-your right about checking levels. It is tough to get accurate readings but I did do saliva tests and I get tested each time I go to Dr. T by blood tests but during my research have noticed that most health care professionals in the area of adrenals recommend rest and to try and curb stress as the most important way to treat adrenal exhaustion in addition to certain adrenal supporting nutritional supplements like B6, B5, Vitamin C, Magnesium, etc.

The cortisol I was given is a bio-identical hormone given to "jump-start" the adrenals into producing enough cortisol on their own. It did the trick for me. Some doctors will keep a patient on the cortisol along with thyroid. This approach did not work for me. My theory based on working with Dr. T, and another doctor I work with is that the excess "bad estrogens" have been the culprit since I began feeling bad at age 38. It is possible that the bad estrogen, along with the major stress from my past, and foods that I have become allergic to such as wheat are the reason my body is attacking it's own organs, namely my thyroid. Hashimoto's is an autoimmune disease. Whatever foreign substance is entering into my body is what is making this happen. I really feel this is what is happening. There are other reasons why I've come to this conclusion but it would take hours to explain all the stuff I've been through to rule it out. I just hope this helps someone else to not have to suffer like I have.

My other doctor whom I will not disclose says that my liver needs to be cleaned of the bad estrogen. Toxins all around us, food, etc can wreak havoc on a woman in her pre-menopausal years. Dr. Lee's book, "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Pre-Menopause" confirms much of this. This book has been like my Bible to me and has been the most sensible of everything I've read. The EsClear is my liver detoxify supplement. I've just started it. So I will keep posting my progress. I will know when I get my next period how things are going. I usually get very tired 10 days before, very tender breasts and extremely bloated. Terrible water retention. If those symptoms subside even a little, I will be one step closer to the answer.

[cbcb]

Best wishes with sorting it out - I know it can be a long process but as you know step by step's the way to answers.

In case this is of use... went looking to see if mercury (the dental amalgam issue) ties back to estrogen at all... ran across this blog/article from a woman who mentioned having high estrogen and thyroiditis symptoms:

(much more at the link)
...I first found out that there was a problem with my estrogen levels when I told my doctor that it was time to retest my thyroid function as I was starting to experience early acute thyroiditis symptoms again...
http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/hormones/estrogen.html

[unreg]

Hi all-
I haven't updated in a while...and I'm at my witt's end right now.
I have been on T3/T4 and now I am just on T3...and I still feel like I have seen 0 results. I am constantly moody and angry, my period is still wacko...and despite counting every calorie and upping my cardio duration and intensity I have not lost a single pound since I put on the 25lbs a year ago! I am scared to think what would happen if I stopped working out. As it is I am wearing a 12/14 when I used to wear a 4/6. I don't even feel like me anymore! Everyone is telling me to either see a nutritionist, or that it's stress or that I put on muscle or eat more protein, or eat less carbs or don't eat soy...blah blah blah. Why doesn't anyone believe me when I tell them that those are not the issues causing this...and why after all this time and money is nothing seeming to work....

Very frustrated and depressed.
Shereen

[Natrushka]

You should not be on just a T3 med, Shareen - just as T4 only med isn't enough - you need both hormones.

Shareen, you probably just need a better doctor :)

Nat

[Nancy LC]

Wow, I'd never seen this thread before. The first posting is so interesting. Having half the caloric metabolism she should have it just shows how terrible hypothyroidism is, even when we're supposedly normal.

I am so worried that my metabolism will never come back, even once my thyroid levels truly get straightened out.

[unreg]

Nat-
My Doctor is Dr. Holtorf...he is a specialist...he put me on t4/t3 first, but I wasn't seeing any change and I was starting to feel chest pain so he switched me...

[tigger64]

Have you had adrenals checked? If you address thyroid w/o addressing adrenal issues, you will feel worse and, I think, not see alot of results. Just an idea. You probably have already checked into this.

Tig

[fridayeyes]

Here's the thing with metabolism - once your meds are optimal, you have to FEED it to get it back. This means slowly raising your calories byt 100-200 per week until you start to GAIN. And not just a lb, etiher - you need to gain 4 or 5 to make sure it's not just water fluctuation. After that, you can start to cycle calories, dipping below your new 'maintenance' level for several days, then spiking several hundred above to prevent your body from crashing it again.

Cheers,

Friday

[unreg]

Tig-
What tests should I do to test my adrenals?
Where can I find more info on this aspect?
Shereen

[Natrushka]

If someone is having issues with chest pain you don't take them off T4 and give them only T3!!! :eek:

[amandaj777]

Hi everyone,

I have tried the EsClear prescribed by Dr. Lam (drlam.com) and found the results to be very good. I've been able to lose about 70-80% of my terrible, terrible, symptoms of pms including bloat, very tender breasts, severe mood swings, depression, anxiety, foggy head, poor concentration and fatigue. My periods are more normal now. I was skipping some and then bleeding heavy when I got one.

I have Hashi's as decribed in previous threads. I believe what CBCB has posted about Estrogen Dominance and what it can do to effect thyroid function. (read her post with the link). I am still tired but not as bad. I have not gained anymore weight since seeing Dr. Tenanbaum (Dr. Holtorf's office) since Aug. of 2004. My diet is basically the same but I sometimes crave potato chips bad (Dr. Lam says that is a sign of adrenal exhaustian). Dr. Lam continues to insist that if I reduce bad estrogen, take Onco-C, Panthree (B's), EsClear and my regular dose of progesterone, I will continue to improve. He also switched me to his Estrogen dominance diet (See drlam.com) and it is basically what I've been eating anyway. So far, so good. Dr. Lam is so awesome, you can email him any question and he will get back to you - free!

I find that if I don't relax and sleep enough on the weekends after working my full time job, then I go back to work on Monday morning tired and stay tired all week. If I sleep in both Sat. and Sunday at least 11 hours each night, I feel fantastic all day long and get a lot done. If I overdo it then I suffer again. So the moral of this story is get a lot of rest and stay far away from stress. It helps me most.

Dr. Lam said to me that my body is not able to handle the medications I tried for thyroid. This frightened me and I said to him, if I don't take medicine for my thyroid, will I put my health in further danger. He said the chances are very slim. So far his advice has been working for me consistantly. I don't believe this is advice for everyone and that if you are on meds, don't stop taking them. Be certain you have exhausted everything else first. I have. I simply could not take anything..Armour, T3/T4, T4, nothing worked....it all put me basically in a coma! So I have no choice. I will go back to Dr. Holtorfs in July for a check up but I will not take any meds at that point unless something drastic happens between now and then.

I believe my problem is stress, tired adrenals and estrogen dominance causing the thyroid to be screwed up. Maybe I'm wrong, but so far what I'm doing is helping the most. My prayers are with all of you.

Psalm 107:20 He sent forth His word and healed them and delivered them from the pit.

[wcollier]

Hi Amanda:

I'm a bit surprised by Dr. Lam's statements. I REALLY, REALLY like him, but I think I have to disagree with him on this one. Your body isn't able to tolerate thyroid hormone if you have adrenal insufficiency. It's very common, especially for people with autoimmune disease. You may need to take something like Isocort or Cortef to help replace the cortisol that your body isn't producing.

Have you seen Dr. Rind's (http://www.drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp)site? You may find it very helpful. He treats both thyroid and adrenals, which is very helpful for people who have a difficult time tolerating thyroid hormones alone.

I don't want you to think I'm "strong-arming" you, we all make our own decisions. The best decisions I like to make are "informed" ones, looking at a problem from all angles. Maybe this information will be useful, maybe it won't. Either way, I really hope you're able to get better. Being chronically unwell and frustrated all the time isn't a bed of roses.

Take care,
Wanda

[amandaj777]

Hi Wanda,

Thanks for the reply and the link. I will look at it. I think I miscommunicated somehow because Dr. Lam is the one who said my adrenals need rest and certain nutrients before treatment of thyroid and his regime I am on now is specifically targeting them first with the goal of treating the thyroid as soon as the adrenals are better. The stimulating effect of the thyroid medication to get the metabolism going is just too strong for my adrenals. Dr. Tenanbaum (my regular doc) gave me low doses of cortisol for a period of 3 months which literally kick started my adrenals which literally lifted me out of my severe fatigue and now I just get tired but not like it was.

Dr. Lam uses high doses of Vitamin C as his major adrenal healing treatment, but really stresses that it takes a long time to heal them because it requires much rest, good diet, stay away from stress and supplementation. He isn't at all against thyroid meds, but treats each person as a unique body chemistry that requires unique treatment and when a person has exhausted regular doctors and their treatments. I did take Isocort for a while but it stopped working. I went to a professional nutritionist who had me on that and thyrosol for the thyroid. It worked for a while and then everything snowballed into a nightmare. That's when I met Dr. Lam. He has been treating me over the phone for free. He is a Godsend for me as I have completely run out of money to take care of this. I can't even go to a regular doctor now and get my blood tests as I am still paying off last years treatments at Dr. T's office and my mom for all the meds she paid for that didn't work.

[wcollier]

Hi Amanda:

Sorry I misunderstood. OMG, I can't believe what a gem Dr. Lam is. Wow, in my PMS state, it almost makes me feel like crying. I can't imagine how grateful you must be.

I totally understand what you've been through. Was it the Isocort you were taking for 3 months? I took it for 10 days, but had to stop b/c it gave me urgent diarrhea. I'm now on a low dose of Cortef and I just started Synthroid alone. We think the T3 from my Armour was too stimulating for me to tolerate so we'll see how it goes with just the Synthroid. *crossing fingers* If that doesn't work, I'll be back at square one again. I'm really dreading the thought, if you know what I mean.

Have you read Dr. Schwarzbein's 2nd book? You might find it interesting if you can get it from the library. Her 2nd book (not the 1st one or the 3rd one) deals mostly with the adrenals. Much of what Dr. Lam says is repeated in her book. Something to think about if you're the "reading" type.

Anyway, I sincerely hope you get some relief. It sounds like it's been a long time coming.

Wanda

[sevens0777]

I am new to the group and have been doing much research on estrogen dominance, since I fit the profile very well. I was wondering, were might I be able to purchase EsClear and PBalance?