Atkins Diet vs Carbs

[Norm45]

I just heard on CNN that a person needs 100 g Carbs to avoid
losing muscle mass. Any comments.

[Irv Finkle]

Norm45@Earthlink.com wrote:
>
> I just heard on CNN that a person needs 100 g Carbs to avoid
> losing muscle mass. Any comments.

I don't count the carbs, but I watch what I eat and do keep my
carbs low. You should see all the muscle mass I lost around my
beltline! :-)

Truthfully, I don't know how you would measure muscle mass,
but I haven't, AFAIK, lost any that I started with.
--
Diagnosed Type II Diabetes March 5 2001 Beating it with diet
and exercise!
297/215/210 (to be revised lower) 58"/43"(!)/44" (already
lower too!)
--------------------
Visit my FINALLY UPDATED website at
http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv/
--------------------
Irv Finkleman, Grampa/Ex-Navy/Old Fart/Ham Radio VE6BP
Calgary, Alberta, Canada

[Jerry Wils]

<Norm45@Earthlink.com> wrote in message
news:j2r1uuojnf7s4m3inmupn4bb1fj6dasrsb@4ax.com...
> I just heard on CNN that a person needs 100 g Carbs to avoid
> losing muscle mass. Any comments.
>

That is erroneous information. The latest Duke research shows
that those who eat a low-carb diet (Atkins plan) lose less
muscle mass than those eating low-fat.

--
Jerry Wilson (Reply to jerry@wilstar.net)
http://LowCarbDiet.us

[Julie Bove]

<Norm45@Earthlink.com> wrote in message
news:j2r1uuojnf7s4m3inmupn4bb1fj6dasrsb@4ax.com...
> I just heard on CNN that a person needs 100 g Carbs to avoid
> losing muscle mass. Any comments.

That's a rather specious statement. Rather like saying a
person must eat 2,000 calories a day to maintain their body
weight. Certainly either statement would or possibly could
apply to some people. I say *could* because I don't think
anyone knows for sure how many carbs we must eat. But I do
think the amount would vary from person to person simply
because we are not all the same size and do not have the same
metabolism.

--
Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ Julie Bove, posting
from new account

[Eric Bohlm]

Norm45@Earthlink.com wrote in
news:j2r1uuojnf7s4m3inmupn4bb1fj6dasrsb@4ax.com:

> I just heard on CNN that a person needs 100 g Carbs to avoid
> losing muscle mass. Any comments.

That's a sound bite that's been stripped of all possible
context. Think about it for a moment. How could the figure be
identical for all people regardless of size, age, total
caloric intake, activity level, etc? It's just like the notion
that everybody, under all circumstances, requires 8 glasses of
water a day.

The media seem completely incompetent at presenting
information related to nutrition. Everything is oversimplified
and melodramatized. I think the root cause is sexism;
nutrition is regarded as "women's page" material and women
aren't considered capable of understanding anything but the
superficial.

[Jmmbear]

In article <j2r1uuojnf7s4m3inmupn4bb1fj6dasrsb@4ax.com>,
Norm45@Earthlink.com writes:

>I just heard on CNN that a person needs 100 g Carbs to avoid
>losing muscle mass. Any comments.
>
>

Well, didnt have much muscle mass before, but after lowcarb
and exercise Ihave gained some. So not loosing any here. As
always YMMV and this is JMO Jeanne Type 2 Diagnosed 05/28/02
189/163/120

[Frank Roy]

Norm45@Earthlink.com wrote:
>
> I just heard on CNN that a person needs 100 g Carbs to avoid
> losing muscle mass. Any comments.
The muscle mass can be lost if one is not consuming a balance
of carbs, protein, and fats. The key is the process whereby
the body scavenges muscle tissue (gluconeogenesis) to obtain
glucose. If one is consuming an adequate amount of the
essential amino acids such as found in meat, the carbs
themselves are not essential.

"Glucocorticoids promote peripheral tissue protein
degradation, delivery of amino acid carbon to liver, and
gluconeogenesis. Associated with these actions,
glucocorticoids stimulate adipocyte lipolysis, leading to the
availability of fatty acids to provide energy in support of
hepatic gluconeogenesis and skeletal muscle proteolysis. ...
During starvation, after the utilization of hepatic glycogen,
protein carbon becomes the major source for glucose
homeostasis. The increased degradation of protein to supply
amino acids for gluconeogenesis in tissues such as skeletal
muscle occurs as a consequence of the decrease in plasma
insulin levels and the elevation in glucocorticoids."

Frank Roy

[Wsm311]

>> I just heard on CNN that a person needs 100 g Carbs to
>> avoid losing muscle mass. Any comments.

The diabetic educator told our class that we all had to eat at
least 100 carbs a day or our brains wouldn't work. I asked her
how many carbs SHE eats. After a bit she said less than 100
;-) Hmmmmmm........

Wendy Peace and Carrots Farm Vermont
http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/
http://www.heathershikinghiatus.homestead.com/

[Quentin Gr]

This post not CC'd by email On 25 Nov 2002 01:46:06 GMT,
wsm311@aol.comnolard (WSM311) wrote:

>The diabetic educator told our class that we all had to eat
>at least 100 carbs a day or our brains wouldn't work. I asked
>her how many carbs SHE eats. After a bit she said less than
>100 ;-) Hmmmmmm........
>
>
>Wendy

G'day G'day Wendy,

Did she have a mischievous grin?

Certain minerals, amino acids and fatty acids are called
essential because they are necessary for health and they can't
be synthesized from other compounds. It is a bit of a weird
definition because with some things eg the fatty acids one
could start with one compound or another. Alpha linolenic acid
is probably called an essential fatty acid though people
probably could get along using some other fatty acid in the
same omega-3 sequence eg EPA or DHA.

The situation with carbohydrate isn't so simple. It is only
recently that people have attempted to put a minimum figure on
the intake of glucose for instance.

--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the
blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

[J.C. Hartm]

It is generally accepted (which doesnt mean that it is true)
that the average brain needs the equivalent of 100g of glucose
per day to function.

The fault with the "100g of carbs per day" old wive's tale is
that it ignores the fact that our bodies store glycogen and
that the liver makes glucose from amino acids via
gluconeogenesis. The brain prefers glucose, but will even use
ketones if insufficient glucose is available.

Jim

[Guy]

On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:20:10 -0600, "J.C. Hartmann"
<jch@meadecom.com> wrote:

>It is generally accepted (which doesnt mean that it is true)
>that the average brain needs the equivalent of 100g of
>glucose per day to function.
>
>The fault with the "100g of carbs per day" old wive's tale is
>that it ignores the fact that our bodies store glycogen and
>that the liver makes glucose from amino acids via
>gluconeogenesis. The brain prefers glucose, but will even use
>ketones if insufficient glucose is available.
>
>Jim

Could a brain malfunction and convince us we are OK.
Just kidding.

Guy

[Quentin Gr]

This post not CC'd by email On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:47:29
-0600, Guy <gswil@intertex.net> wrote:

>Could a brain malfunction and convince us we are OK.
>Just kidding.
>
> Guy

Sort of like reading a philosophy book that convinces you all
information found in text is false.

What would you then believe?

--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the
blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

[Mirzabah]

"J.C. Hartmann" <jch@meadecom.com> wrote in message
news:<3DE3D77A.9040306@meadecom.com>...
> ... The brain prefers glucose, but will even use ketones if
> insufficient glucose is available.

In other words, if you are literally starving ;)

[Jerry Wils]

"Mirzabah" <ng@mirzabah.com> wrote in message
news:2ed222a6.0211262132.56fd5c17@posting.google.com...
> "J.C. Hartmann" <jch@meadecom.com> wrote in message
news:<3DE3D77A.9040306@meadecom.com>...
> > ... The brain prefers glucose, but will even use ketones
> > if insufficient glucose is available.
>
> In other words, if you are literally starving ;)

No, not starving, just carbohydrate deficient. You can still
eat "high off the hog" but limit the carbs and your brain will
buzz right along on ketones.

Jerry

[Evelyn Ruu]

"Jerry Wilson" <wilstar@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:x18F9.906$pc.176764@news.iquest.net...
>
> "Mirzabah" <ng@mirzabah.com> wrote in message
> news:2ed222a6.0211262132.56fd5c17@posting.google.com...
> > "J.C. Hartmann" <jch@meadecom.com> wrote in message
> news:<3DE3D77A.9040306@meadecom.com>...
> > > ... The brain prefers glucose, but will even use ketones
> > > if insufficient glucose is available.
> >
> > In other words, if you are literally starving ;)
>
> No, not starving, just carbohydrate deficient. You can still
> eat "high off the hog" but limit the carbs and your brain
> will buzz right along on ketones.
>
> Jerry

I have been low carbing for a couple of months now, and in the
process of preparing for the holiday I noticed how much more
energy I have, and how much better I feel, and how much
clearer my thinking is. I am so much more organized! Just for
this alone I am totally grateful and will continue eating this
way as long as I have to, even if it is for the rest of my
life. My IBS problem has nearly ceased. My fibromyalgia and
muscle pains are nearly stopped completely. My arthritic knees
are better than they have been in years. Just about everything
is better, even my sinuses, which are usually screaming at
this time of year! These results are nearly miraculous for me!

Hey can you REALLY argue with using heavy cream in your tea
and eating eggs every day for breakfast and still losing
weight comfortably without extreme hunger or a sense of
deprivation? I have been on diets, I assure you. I tried them
ALL. This way works for me in a way that I can live with long
term. I am sticking with it.

Regards, Evelyn

[Ron]

--------------060204050903090001000308 Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

You people who do not live in the USA....must read Dr Atkins
book. The man has dedicated his life to this subject.

> Designed to catapult your body into a state of fat meltdown,
> Dr. Atkins's diet has taken America by storm. It targets
> insulin, the hormone that regulates blood sugar levels. The
> bodies of most overeaters are continually in a state of
> hyperinsulinism; their bodies are so adept at releasing
> insulin to help convert excess carbohydrates to fat that
> there's always too much of the hormone circulating through
> the body. This puts the body into a bind; it always wants to
> store fat. Even when people with hyperinsulinism try to lose
> weight--especially when they cut fat but increase
> carbohydrate consumption--their efforts will fail. This is
> why Dr. Atkins refers to insulin as "the fat-producing
> hormone."
>
> Dr. Atkins's diet is extremely low in carbohydrates, which
> helps to regulate insulin production and decrease
> circulating insulin; less insulin soon results in less
> fat storage and fewer food cravings. The diet is far
> from torturous, though--those who've tried it attest
> that hunger is not a part of this plan. Ninety percent
> of Dr. Atkins's patients--more than 25,000 of them--have
> experienced dramatic weight loss. The book includes
> recipes for such luscious, low-carb dishes as lobster
> soup, zabaglione, sea bass, and blueberry ice cream.
>
Ron ..........

Evelyn Ruut wrote:

>"Jerry Wilson" <wilstar@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:x18F9.906$pc.176764@news.iquest.net...
>
>
>>"Mirzabah" <ng@mirzabah.com> wrote in message
>>news:2ed222a6.0211262132.56fd5c17@posting.google.com...
>>
>>
>>>"J.C. Hartmann" <jch@meadecom.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>news:<3DE3D77A.9040306@meadecom.com>...
>>
>>
>>>>... The brain prefers glucose, but will even use ketones
>>>>if insufficient glucose is available.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>In other words, if you are literally starving ;)
>>>
>>>
>>No, not starving, just carbohydrate deficient. You can still
>>eat "high off the hog" but limit the carbs and your brain
>>will buzz right along on ketones.
>>
>>Jerry
>>
>>
>
>
>I have been low carbing for a couple of months now, and in
>the process of preparing for the holiday I noticed how much
>more energy I have, and how much better I feel, and how much
>clearer my thinking is. I am so much more organized! Just for
>this alone I am totally grateful and will continue eating
>this way as long as I have to, even if it is for the rest of
>my life. My IBS problem has nearly ceased. My fibromyalgia
>and muscle pains are nearly stopped completely. My arthritic
>knees are better than they have been in years. Just about
>everything is better, even my sinuses, which are usually
>screaming at this time of year! These results are nearly
>miraculous for me!
>
>Hey can you REALLY argue with using heavy cream in your tea
>and eating eggs every day for breakfast and still losing
>weight comfortably without extreme hunger or a sense of
>deprivation? I have been on diets, I assure you. I tried them
>ALL. This way works for me in a way that I can live with long
>term. I am sticking with it.
>
>Regards, Evelyn
>
>
>
>
>
>

--------------060204050903090001000308 Content-Type:
text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01
Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta
http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title>
</head> <body> You people who do not live in the USA....must
read Dr Atkins book. The man has dedicated his life to this
subject.<br> <blockquote type="cite"> <span
class="small"></span><span class="serif">Designed to catapult
your body into a state of fat meltdown, Dr. Atkins's diet has
taken America by storm. It targets insulin, the hormone that
regulates blood sugar levels. The bodies of most overeaters
are continually in a state of hyperinsulinism; their bodies
are so adept at releasing insulin to help convert excess
carbohydrates to fat that there's always too much of the
hormone circulating through the body. This puts the body into
a bind; it always wants to store fat. Even when people with
hyperinsulinism try to lose weight--especially when they cut
fat but increase carbohydrate consumption--their efforts will
fail. This is why Dr. Atkins refers to insulin as "the
fat-producing hormone."
<p> Dr. Atkins's diet is extremely low in carbohydrates,
which helps to regulate insulin production and decrease
circulating insulin; less insulin soon results in less
fat storage and fewer food cravings. The diet is far
from torturous, though--those who've tried it attest
that hunger is <i>not</i> a part of this plan. Ninety
percent of Dr. Atkins's patients--more than 25,000 of
them--have experienced dramatic weight loss. The book
includes recipes for such luscious, low-carb dishes as
lobster soup, zabaglione, sea bass, and blueberry ice
cream.</p> </span></blockquote> Ron ..........<br> <br>
Evelyn Ruut wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mi-
dHxdF9.110996$Em.34351860@twister.nyroc.rr.com"> <pre
wrap="">"Jerry Wilson" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:wilstar@yahoo.com">&lt;wilstar@yahoo.com&g-
t;</a> wrote in message <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="news:x18F9.906$pc.176764@news.iquest.net">news:x1-
8F9.906$pc.176764@news.iquest.net</a>... </pre>
<blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">"Mirzabah" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ng@mirzabah.-
com">&lt;ng@mirzabah.com&gt;</a> wrote in message <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:2ed222a6.02112-
62132.56fd5c17@posting.google.com">news:2ed222a6.021126-
2132.56fd5c17@posting.google.com</a>... </pre>
<blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">"J.C. Hartmann" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jch@meadecom-
.com">&lt;jch@meadecom.com&gt;</a> wrote in message
</pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">news:<a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:3DE3D77A.904-
0306@meadecom.com">&lt;3DE3D77A.9040306@meadecom.com&gt-
;</a>... </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <blockquote
type="cite"> <pre wrap="">... The brain prefers glucose,
but will even use ketones if insufficient glucose is
available. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">In other
words, if you are literally starving ;) </pre>
</blockquote> <pre wrap="">No, not starving, just
carbohydrate deficient. You can still eat "high off the
hog" but limit the carbs and your brain will buzz right
along on ketones.

Jerry </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!---->

I have been low carbing for a couple of months now, and in the
process of preparing for the holiday I noticed how much more
energy I have, and how much better I feel, and how much
clearer my thinking is. I am so much more organized! Just for
this alone I am totally grateful and will continue eating this
way as long as I have to, even if it is for the rest of my
life. My IBS problem has nearly ceased. My fibromyalgia and
muscle pains are nearly stopped completely. My arthritic knees
are better than they have been in years. Just about everything
is better, even my sinuses, which are usually screaming at
this time of year! These results are nearly miraculous for me!

Hey can you REALLY argue with using heavy cream in your tea
and eating eggs every day for breakfast and still losing
weight comfortably without extreme hunger or a sense of
deprivation? I have been on diets, I assure you. I tried them
ALL. This way works for me in a way that I can live with long
term. I am sticking with it.

Regards, Evelyn

</pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html>

--------------060204050903090001000308--

[Mack]

On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:47:29 -0600, Guy <gswil@intertex.net>
cast the following madness into the void:

>On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:20:10 -0600, "J.C. Hartmann"
><jch@meadecom.com> wrote:
>
>>It is generally accepted (which doesnt mean that it is true)
>>that the average brain needs the equivalent of 100g of
>>glucose per day to function.
>>
>>The fault with the "100g of carbs per day" old wive's tale
>>is that it ignores the fact that our bodies store glycogen
>>and that the liver makes glucose from amino acids via
>>gluconeogenesis. The brain prefers glucose, but will even
>>use ketones if insufficient glucose is available.
>>
>>Jim
>
>Could a brain malfunction and convince us we are OK.
>Just kidding.
>
> Guy

the answer to that question Guy is yes. Take for example the
new diabetic, type 1 or 2 who feels severe hypo symptoms
when first bring their BG down to normal numbers. The body
became acclimated to high numbers and needs to acclimate to
normal numbers.

another example would be the drug addict when first trying to
live without drugs and the life style that went along with
getting those drugs.

These are just 2 obvious situations where the brain and body
are not functioning properly.

Mack Type 1 since 1975 Minimed 508 Insulin Pump
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.us.zerolimit.net
(irc server webpage for our chat room) #diabeticnet is the
name of our IRC chat on zerolimit.net
http://www.zerolimit.net/files/zl-mirc.exe
http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/misc/webtv.html
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ircle/ <--Ircle Mac IRC software

[Mack]

On 26 Nov 2002 21:32:03 -0800, ng@mirzabah.com (Mirzabah) cast
the following madness into the void:

>"J.C. Hartmann" <jch@meadecom.com> wrote in message
>news:<3DE3D77A.9040306@meadecom.com>...
>> ... The brain prefers glucose, but will even use ketones if
>> insufficient glucose is available.
>
>In other words, if you are literally starving ;)

under what conditions does the body produce ketones? in a
diabetic, what conditions are present when the body
produces ketones.

Mack Type 1 since 1975 Minimed 508 Insulin Pump
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.us.zerolimit.net
(irc server webpage for our chat room) #diabeticnet is the
name of our IRC chat on zerolimit.net
http://www.zerolimit.net/files/zl-mirc.exe
http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/misc/webtv.html
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ircle/ <--Ircle Mac IRC software