Question for Sheiko followers

[Dr. Philip]

What is the rationale behind the two separate squat/bench
series described for individual workouts?

Are these meant to be done in morning/evening sessions, or as
a single workout, divided by exercises involving separate
bodyparts?

-Phil Hardwidge

[Watson Dav]

On 20 Nov 2002 19:40:05 -0800, hardwidg@interchange.ubc.ca
(Dr. Philip
R. Hardwidge) wrote:
>What is the rationale behind the two separate squat/bench
>series described for individual workouts?

Keith knows more of theory behind Sheiko's approach than I do
but I look at it as a powerlifting version of HST. It's kinda
like a cross between HST and Korte's 3x3 with a little Louie
thrown in. Every workout is full body. The intensity in terms
of 1RM isn't really that much; most of your time is spent in
the 70-80% range and you almost never lift at 90% or above.
The volume seems high in relation to most powerlifting
routines but I think the way it's set up is good for working
on technique. You don't get long sets so you can keep your
concentration.

Personally, I took Keith's suggestion and set my rest periods
to 1 minute between sets unless I REALLY needed more time.
This makes the length of the routine a little more
reasonable... but it also makes the experience that much more
hellish. The workouts are "do-able" although you'll frequently
find yourself looking for reasons to do something else. Like
ending the workout session.

>
>Are these meant to be done in morning/evening sessions, or as
>a single workout, divided by exercises involving separate
>bodyparts?

Some of Sheiko's workouts are morning/evening sessions. You
can take a look at Keith's logs to get an idea. But most of
the routines listed over at worldpowerlifting are meant to be
done in a single workout.

Yes. You squat, you bench, and then you squat again. Or
sometimes you'll bench and squat and then bench again. Or
you'll deadlift and bench and deadlift... One of the things I
liked about the routine is that you're always benching (or at
least doing bench assistance). That was something I needed.

Watson (the pencil neck) Davis

[Keith Hobm]

In article <b507ec78.0211201940.3c79f431@posting.google.com>,
hardwidg@interchange.ubc.ca (Dr. Philip R. Hardwidge) wrote:

> What is the rationale behind the two separate squat/bench
> series described for individual workouts?
>
> Are these meant to be done in morning/evening sessions, or
> as a single workout, divided by exercises involving separate
> bodyparts?
>
I personally prefer to split the workouts into different
sessions and lift in several, smaller sessions per day than do
one large one. This is also the preferred method of the
Russian coach Sheiko, but the workouts can also be done as one
workout. As a general rule many of the Russian weightlifting
coaches believe a workout should not last longer than 70
minutes due to hormonal considerations. I don't know if Sheiko
subscribes to that theory or not.

Sheiko appears to base his workouts on target repetitions
per year, with the reps going up as the lifter becomes
more adapted or 'qualified'. Only reps above 50% in the
more demanding movements are counted. It appears that a
highly qualified Sheiko athlete may do over 24,000 reps
per year. This mirrors the reps done by the Russian
weightlifters. In the 60's and 70's the average reps
increased dramatically, from around 9,000 per year up to
28,000 per year for some athletes.

Given such a high load it appears Sheiko felt it necessary
to train lifts more than once per day. There may be other
reasons. The Russian weightlifters who influenced Sheiko
trained the squat more than once per day. And Sheiko has
said (quoting a Russian weightlifting coach who was
referring to the Olympic press); "If you want to press more
- than press more."

In short, he believes in volume. He distributes the volume
using Chernyak's loading parameters which wave the load in
terms of both volume and intensity.

I suspect the reason he breaks the squats and benches into two
is to give some rest.

--
Keith Hobman

[#1]

khobman@SPAMTRAPsasktel.net (Keith Hobman) wrote in message
news:<khobman-2111020744020001@192.168.1.100>...
> In article
> <b507ec78.0211201940.3c79f431@posting.google.com>,
> hardwidg@interchange.ubc.ca (Dr. Philip R. Hardwidge) wrote:
>
> > What is the rationale behind the two separate squat/bench
> > series described for individual workouts?
> >
> > Are these meant to be done in morning/evening sessions, or
> > as a single workout, divided by exercises involving
> > separate bodyparts?
> >
> I personally prefer to split the workouts into different
> sessions and lift in several, smaller sessions per day than
> do one large one. This is also the preferred method of the
> Russian coach Sheiko, but the workouts can also be done as
> one workout. As a general rule many of the Russian
> weightlifting coaches believe a workout should not last
> longer than 70 minutes due to hormonal considerations. I
> don't know if Sheiko subscribes to that theory or not.
>
> Sheiko appears to base his workouts on target repetitions
> per year, with the reps going up as the lifter becomes more
> adapted or 'qualified'. Only reps above 50% in the more
> demanding movements are counted. It appears that a highly
> qualified Sheiko athlete may do over 24,000 reps per year.
> This mirrors the reps done by the Russian weightlifters. In
> the 60's and 70's the average reps increased dramatically,
> from around 9,000 per year up to 28,000 per year for some
> athletes.
>
> Given such a high load it appears Sheiko felt it necessary
> to train lifts more than once per day. There may be other
> reasons. The Russian weightlifters who influenced Sheiko
> trained the squat more than once per day. And Sheiko has
> said (quoting a Russian weightlifting coach who was
> referring to the Olympic press); "If you want to press more
> - than press more."
>
> In short, he believes in volume. He distributes the volume
> using Chernyak's loading parameters which wave the load in
> terms of both volume and intensity.
>
> I suspect the reason he breaks the squats and benches into
> two is to give some rest.

This routine looks interesting but it only covers the base
period. How did you train after the four weeks were up - just
increase the weight and cut back on reps? I've done 3x3 which
has a competition phase Sheiko doesn't have.

[Keith Hobm]

In article <af3ed34a.0211211640.65b755cf@posting.google.com>,
thecharmer@excite.com (#1) wrote:

> khobman@SPAMTRAPsasktel.net (Keith Hobman) wrote in message
news:<khobman-2111020744020001@192.168.1.100>...
> > In article
> > <b507ec78.0211201940.3c79f431@posting.google.com>,
> > hardwidg@interchange.ubc.ca (Dr. Philip R. Hardwidge)
> > wrote:
> >
> > > What is the rationale behind the two separate
> > > squat/bench series described for individual workouts?
> > >
> > > Are these meant to be done in morning/evening sessions,
> > > or as a single workout, divided by exercises involving
> > > separate bodyparts?
> > >
> > I personally prefer to split the workouts into different
> > sessions and lift in several, smaller sessions per day
> > than do one large one. This is also the preferred method
> > of the Russian coach Sheiko, but the workouts can also be
> > done as one workout. As a general rule many of the Russian
> > weightlifting coaches believe a workout should not last
> > longer than 70 minutes due to hormonal considerations. I
> > don't know if Sheiko subscribes to that theory or not.
> >
> > Sheiko appears to base his workouts on target repetitions
> > per year, with the reps going up as the lifter becomes
> > more adapted or 'qualified'. Only reps above 50% in the
> > more demanding movements are counted. It appears that a
> > highly qualified Sheiko athlete may do over 24,000 reps
> > per year. This mirrors the reps done by the Russian
> > weightlifters. In the 60's and 70's the average reps
> > increased dramatically, from around 9,000 per year up to
> > 28,000 per year for some athletes.
> >
> > Given such a high load it appears Sheiko felt it necessary
> > to train lifts more than once per day. There may be other
> > reasons. The Russian weightlifters who influenced Sheiko
> > trained the squat more than once per day. And Sheiko has
> > said (quoting a Russian weightlifting coach who was
> > referring to the Olympic press); "If you want to press
> > more - than press more."
> >
> > In short, he believes in volume. He distributes the volume
> > using Chernyak's loading parameters which wave the load in
> > terms of both volume and intensity.
> >
> > I suspect the reason he breaks the squats and benches into
> > two is to give some rest.
>
> This routine looks interesting but it only covers the base
> period. How did you train after the four weeks were up -
> just increase the weight and cut back on reps? I've done 3x3
> which has a competition phase Sheiko doesn't have.

The current program I am following is the Sheiko MSIC. It is a
16 week program with a 7 week precompetition period. I am
doing one competition in it in week 3 so I've changed it to a
18 week program to accommodate that. If you follow the KSH Log
I will list the entire program.

On the Worldpowerlifting site the Mor program is a sample of
precompetition period programming. Between it and the CMS/MS
you get a pretty good idea what Sheiko is all about. As well
the bench program is a complete program - both base and
competition period.

Since Sheiko follows Chernyak's loading parameters when you
have a base or precompetition period it is fairly easy to
extrapolate where he goes with his programs. During base
period the volume is up and the intensiveness is down.
During precompetition the intensiveness goes up and the
volume goes down.

As adaptation takes place and the athlete becomes 'qualified'
(in the Russian sense) there tends to be less testing and less
reps done over 85%. But this depends on the athlete as well.
Like a Westside program the Sheiko model is not intended to be
one program fits every person. The program is modified to the
individual. Sheiko comments on this by noting that some
athletes prefer not to test 6 weeks out and already know what
they will be able to lift. Others prefer to test. So its hard
to draw absolutes.

I have a copy of Boris Sheiko's book, but it is in Russian.
I've been able to translate his programs pertty good based on
what I've seen at the Worldpowerlifting site and by picking
the brain of Andrey Butenko, who I've met several times. I
would love at some point to actually get the book translated.
There was a Canadian powerlifter who knew a translator and she
started working on it, but then Steve dropped out of site a
few years back and I haven't heard or seen of him since.

--
Keith Hobman