have I messed up my metobolism?

[ykmaggie]

Hi all

I'm hoping someone here might be able to help me sort out this issue.

I'm wondering what the long term effects of carb restriction are on us?

4 years ago, I started with Atkins and lost 20 lbs. Ever since I've found it nearly impossible to *maintain* my weight if I don't restrict carbs to around 120 gms a day. Apparently, normal people eat around 300 gms!

How come before I started all this low carb stuff, I could lose weight with a traditional diet, and now, I can't lose weight unless I'm at 70 gms of carbs or lower?

I've seen several naturalpaths, talked to dietitions, and no one seems to know what's going on. It seems like I've doomed myself to low carb forever. At 169 lbs now, and 150 when I introduced myself to low carb, I know I've done something, and I'm not sure if it's even reversable now.

I had my hemoglobin A C 1 tested this summer, when I was eating a fair number of carbs, and it was 5, .2 below the mid point, so it seems I'm not insulin resistant. If I'm not insulin resistant, then how come I can't lose weight without pretty major carb restriction, and how come before I started all this I could??

My goal was to go to a 30/40/30 plan like Montegnac, but it looks like if I do that I won't lose weight.

I've been around and around this issue. If anyone out there has any ideas, please let me know!

Maggie

[Cyprinodon]

You wouldn't have slowed your metabolic rate by eating less carbohydrates. If it has slowed, the possibilities I can think of include aging in general, lack of weight training at an intensity fit to prevent four years of muscle loss, lack of sufficient cardio exercise, and insufficient calorie intake on low carb due to low carb's appetite control effects. Other than the aging thing, is there any possibility that any of these other things have occurred?

[HLFAN]

Hi there Maggie, very interesting thread. Can you tell us how old you are. I am one of those people who ate 300g carbs everyday. I don't know if most people do. Keep in mind until I was 30 I skiied constantly, (water, downhill and cross-country) played tennis, swam, horsebackriding, dancing etc. every single day.
However, when I hit 31 and had a baby, had to cut back alot.

So your age and activity level are very important. I work with a stringbean of a girl, about 28, eats no real food, chips, coke and pizza. Hey, it must be genetic, her whole family is skinny and eats nothing but junk.

So I'd love to hear more about you. (BTW, one nice afternoon cross-country skiing, you'll sweat off 7 lbs, I did) So excersise is key. I also think 70-100 g carbs a day is lots and would give you alot of variey. Don't give up, Nancy

:wave:

[ykmaggie]

Hi Nancy and Cinibon?

I'm 37. Hypothyroid, but apparently properly medicated.

In the winter I exercise my face off, cross country skiing several times a week. Starting in mid August, I've lost 9 pounds, most of that in the first month, then nothing since then. I've increased my carbs, but not tons. It's obvious that I need to go back to lower carbs, 70 - 100. I just don't get it at all. I should be able to lose weight on 100 plus.

The only thing I can think off is I'm in the first stages of adrenal exhaustion, where your steriod hormones are really high. My cortisol levels are WAY above the normal range. Cortisol is a glucocorticoid...I.E is raised insulin levels and is a major fat storing hormone. I also have high levels of estrogen and low levels of progersteone. There are differing opinions on this, but I have read and my naturalpath does insist, that estrogen is also a fat storage hormone.

I guess I need to return to lower carbs to get the weight off, all I'm struggling with right now is the why thing, and I need to know that I'm not messing up my metobolism with this low carb stuff. I do understand that I shouldn't go below 60 gms of carbs a day because it lowers your thyroid levels, the last thing I need! Atkins even states this in his book.

How many carbs do you guys get to eat and still lose weight?

Thanks!

Maggie

[RCFletcher]

Hi everyone,

To someone who is used to one of the very low carb plans like Atkins, 70 carbs a day is tons!

I put on weight at about 40g of carbs a day. Maintain at 20 - 40, and can only loose if I go below 20.

Sugar Busters is one of the more generous plans. You might like to try reducing your carbs even more and also as the other people have said, up the physical activity.

You could also try speeding up your metabolic rate by drinking green tea - provided you don't suffer from high blood pressure.

Good luck

Robert :wave:

[HLFAN]

Hi Maggie, how are you? Estrogen dominance is well know fact.
My Doctor mentions it all the time. Can you use Progesterone creame, you rub it on the skin once or twice a day. Are you on Hrt? (Sorry, don't know how old you are etc.)

I think only young active folks can eat 100+ carbs a day. I remember being on Low-cal, no fat etc. and part of that diet was hardly any bread etc. This way you get to eat alot more.

You are excersising alot!! Perhaps you could get your body fat measuresed at the gym and see how much muscle mass you have gained. (I assume you are going to a gym) BTW, a machine in the gym can never duplicate the stress and workout that real skiing will give you.

I finally lost a few pounds after 2 weeks stall. I increased my veg alot, cut down on cheese and added quite a bit more fat. Whoose, 2 lbs gone. I'm at 30 carbs some days, 40 on others.
I'm never hungry,I eat alot.

I have an 8 month plan, that way I don't get to fixated on instant results. Good luck, see ya soon, Nancy

:wave:

[Kristine]

Hi Maggie,

I don't think I have any good answers for you, but a comment: I don't think HbA1C is a good indicator of insulin resistance, just average blood sugar levels. If I understand it correctly, your hemoglobin only becomes glycosolated in large quantities if your blood sugar is *wildly* high, like uncontrolled diabetes. Any non-diabetic should have a normal A1C, even if they're insulin resistant. Have you had your insulin *levels* checked? That's the better indicator.

As Robert said, everyone is different in their sensitivity to carb levels. HTH...

[doreen T]

hi Maggie,

I'll second Kristine .. IR is determined by insulin levels .. usually fasting, and if that's elevated, they measure insulin (and blood sugar) response to a glucose challenge.

Um, is it possible that you have some food "allergy" or intolerance?? Wheat is a biggie ... and symptoms can be as subtle as fluid retention and failure to lose weight, exhaustion/ fatigue. Overt symptoms are facial flushing and the pulse speeds up after consuming the food.

Many people who follow Atkins or similar carb-restricted plan do well and feel great. Then they add carbs back, and things slow down and they feel crappy. The thing is .. they feel good during the early stages of the diet because they eliminate grains, corn and milk. When it's time to increase the carbs, it's common for folks to reach for the breads, cereals, rice and pasta first, because those are the things they miss most (read: crave most .. and it's now recognised that cravings and addictions to a specific food type may be indication of allergy to that food).

Just a thought, but it might be worth investigating. If your 100g carbs a day are coming mostly from wheat and grain foods, rather than from vegetables and fruits .. that may be a reason for the stall.

Doreen

[ykmaggie]

Thanks Nancy, Robert, Doreen, Cristine!

I really appreciate all your responses.

Very interesting about the Hemoglobin A1C. So I still could be insulin resistant. I'm going to go back to what worked and stop questioning the *why*....I did that all last year, insisted that I *should* be able to lose on 100 gms a day, and guess what, I didn't lose a thing! I was eating 1600 - 1800 calories a day, excersing, everything and I didn't lose anything until I cut my carbs.

Between August 18 and the end of September I lost 9 lbs. Nothing since, but I've obviously put in too much bread, potatoes, etc.

I'm reluctant to go super low because below 60 it affects thyroid hromone conversion and I already have enough problems in that department.

Good advice about the allergy possibility. Thank you. Wheat could be a problem. I don't usually eat it, but have been eating it lately.

The other day I found sprouted grain bread, after you take out the fiber, only 11 gms of carbs. Apparently because the grain is sprouted, it's well tolerated by people that are wheat sensitive.

Thanks to each and every one of you for the help. I really appreciate it. I think I've got an uphill battle because of my hormonal imbalances, but hey at least I know what works.

I'd loaned out my copy of the Schwartzbein priinciple but I think I'll try and get it back because it's an easy program to follow and it works. I also loaned out Larrian Gillespie's Goddess diet, and I think I'll get that back too, because I've also lost weight following it.

I guess I just needed to know that low carbing hadn't messed up my metobolism.

182/175/167 - and I want to be 148 by Christmas! I REALLY want that!!! Ok, I'll settle for 155, but I want this.

Thanks everybody, I feel so much better.

Maggie

[Jalilah]

YK.. I've heard tons and tons of stories about how most who've been on Atkins for any real length of time have to continually restrict their carb intake, and the ones who didn't restrict found they gained all the weight back, EVEN if they were using healthy eating habits (tracking calories, protein grams, fat, etc.).

I was on Atkins myself for about 7 mos, but my leptin levels fell so low I got very sick and lethargic. I've stopped losing weight right now, but I can't convince myself to go back to low carb when I'm ready to continue my weight loss efforts. Oh, and I didn't lose very much weight at all, maybe 20lbs in 7mos, and I felt like crud the whole time.

Naturally, I'm not a nutritionist, scientist or physician, but speaking from my own personal experience----I believe we do mess up our metabolisms dieting. Falling leptin levels over time is proof positive of that, and I've been told that our metabolism never really quite reaches baseline again.

Of course, I still somewhat think that low carbing is the next best thing to peanut butter---but long term?---I dunno.

Ohhh.. and believe it or not, the average diet actually contains around 800g carbs. :) Scary, huh?

.....just my two cents based on my own experience.

[agonycat]

Originally posted by Jalilah
YK.. I've heard tons and tons of stories about how most who've been on Atkins for any real length of time have to continually restrict their carb intake, and the ones who didn't restrict found they gained all the weight back, EVEN if they were using healthy eating habits (tracking calories, protein grams, fat, etc.).



Jalilah, what is "any real length of time" to you?

I would really like to know where this came from because MANY of us on these very forums have been on Atkins for 2 or more years and have YET to regain any of our weight back.

I find only the people that stray off the diet itself gains the weight back and you can't really blame Atkin's for that. In fact if you go off any diet regardless of what you were following 90 percent of the people regain weight. Changes to your diet have to be for life, not just for the duration of losing weight. Studies have shown that only 5 to 10 percent of the population that goes on a diet (any diet) are actually successful at losing weight. (This can be found in the AFAA's Fitness: Theory and Practice, Chapter 26.)

Please post the research material to this please. I would like to read it.


Thanks!

[tigersue]

Maggie,
You might want to pick up the book, Life without bread, I understand it is very good, a touch easier than SP, but very workable with it. I plan on getting it soon, until then just doing the best I can.
Tanya

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by Jalilah
I was on Atkins myself for about 7 mos, but my leptin levels fell so low I got very sick and lethargic. I've stopped losing weight right now, but I can't convince myself to go back to low carb when I'm ready to continue my weight loss efforts. Oh, and I didn't lose very much weight at all, maybe 20lbs in 7mos, and I felt like crud the whole time.

Jalilah I think that a lot of the problems you experienced on Atkins had more to do with what you weren't eating than anything else.

This was a really difficult, and weird, day for me. I didn't have any time to slow down to actually eat a meal...until dinner. I did have the EAS shakes and bars, though.. well, one shake and one bar, so I wouldn't be completely without calories, nutrition, etc.
Some days I have two choices: teach or eat. Those are the days I can't eat dinner usually... because I can't eat and go straight to bed
As far as meals... if it weren't for those bars and shakes I wouldn't have eaten much at all some days.
Have you lost all of you weight while CKDing or on a previous diet?
No. And I'm afraid I probably ruined my efforts by eating too little.
I learned that on my activity level I can't live on ultra low to no carbs, AND I need WAY more calories! Lyle scolded me a little over this. LOL... in a nice way. I listed what my activity level is in a week (by day) and he said he didn't know what calorie level I was at, but he knew it was TOO LOW. I learned the hard way----again----because I felt like I was death walking. NO energy, sleeping 11hrs a day or so, not feeling right period, and had to skip dance practice yesterday and cardio today because of it.

At first BFL wasn't working for you. The CKD wasn't working for you when you started it either, and probably wouldnt be, still. If you had not increased your calories. The same holds true for LC. If your plan is too calorie restricted, regardless of what type of plan it is, your results will be low calorie results.

Nat

[ykmaggie]

Thanks you guys. Thanks Tanya...I'm going to check into the bread thing. Back on Schwartzbein Principle for now.
Maggie

[Jalilah]

Originally posted by Natrushka
Jalilah I think that a lot of the problems you experienced on Atkins had more to do with what you weren't eating than anything else.


At first BFL wasn't working for you. The CKD wasn't working for you when you started it either, and probably wouldnt be, still. If you had not increased your calories. The same holds true for LC. If your plan is too calorie restricted, regardless of what type of plan it is, your results will be low calorie results.

Nat

I never did the BFL eating plan. Just the workout. I was doing Atkins. And actually, I was eating a ton of fat to keep the calories high----but it still didn't work. I realized later that all my activities were burning a lot of calories, so...I upped my calories, then weeks later even cut cardio out almost completely. Shoot, there are tons of people on Atkins that keep their calories around 1100 to 1200 and lose weight like crazy. Me, I was eating WAY more than most that I know, and still not losing. For the past 8mos I've tried many things....and not just for a few days either. In fact, CKD I did for a few weeks and had no luck except for the first week...then it stopped dead, and I began to not have enough energy to get through my workouts no matter what I did.

Oddly, looking back, the thing that did work for me pretty consistently was Ultra SlimFast!! LOL.... strange but true. I just was horribly bored with drinking that stuff.

but anyhoo.....

When I take the calories high---I feel good, but don't lose any weight (like where I've been for the last several weeks). When I take the carbs really low, even at a higher calorie intake (without being right at maintenance)....I feel like crap AND I still don't lose weight, even after weeks and weeks of doing that. BEFORE I started going back to the gym (after a couple years of not going, due to dance practices taking most my time), I was eating a lot of calories on Atkins, as I mentioned. Weight loss was sluggish, then halted altogether for a few short weeks (again) before I said "to heck with this." Too much effort with little to no results.

What I've discovered over the last 8mos or so is that prolonged dieting really didn't do me any real favors, and all I know is I don't believe I ever want to be back in that low-carb-sick zone again. It's simply not worth it.

It may work for others...but it hasn't for me. I've not given up---I just haven't figured out which approach to take at this time. Thankfully, I've met up with a nice group of folks who've been on Atkins (and they do workout) a long time...some 1yr, some 2yrs... with very little losses. These folks are much bigger than I am, so they've not given up---most of them can't afford to for health reasons. And we all share stories and experiences----most of which are fairly identical.

As for now, I'm eating a couple hundred calories below maintenance-----and still not losing. LOL... I'm getting used to it now. Shoot, all I have to do is eat AT maintenance now and I gain weight, no matter how "clean" my eating is. In the last few months I've not lost anything at all---I thought I lost inches for a couple of days, but that was water because it came right back agian the third day, making my jeans tighter etc.

No---I'm not the "norm," but I'm not as much of a minority as I once believed. And CKD is a really cook (and logical) program that works like a dream for most people. Just not for me. :)

Have a good one, all! And thanks for the advice, Natrushka!! :wave:

[quietone]

Just wanted to affirm what you are suspecting. I too have had trouble with carbs ever since I did the Atkins diet. I did it initially, lost all the weight I wanted and then maintained for about 8 months.

Ever since I have had so many problems with carbs. Forget about the fact that I not only gained what I lost, but an extra 25 pounds, I just can't seem to digest my food right any more. And if I eat carbs like spaghette or bread and stuff, I blow up like a baloon! It's like I retain 10 pounds of fluid and my eyes even swell shut because of the fluid retention!

Before I did Atkins, I was overweight, but I wasn't really bothered by any foods. I just wanted to lose weight. Now there are so many foods I can no longer eat. Or if I do eat them, I suffer terribly. I never had a problem with milk in my life, grew up drinking 1-2 quarts a day, and have drank it my whole life...until after Atkins. Now I can't tolerate any. (I miss icecream :( ) I can't even think about eating the volume of food I used to eat at one time. I can't even eat a regular meal with one serving of things without suffering. And I have developed a problem where my pancreas isn't producing enough enzyme, so if I try to eat a lot (even healthy foods), bad news. I can't eat chocolate or donuts. I can't eat much of anything that has carbs without paying for it. Even the good stuff like fruit. For the first time in my life I have indigestion. The list of foods I can no longer eat is long. Onions. I used to eat them almost every day (which is probably why I used to never get sick). Now I can't touch them. Even cooked they bother me.

I used to have a "cast iron" stomach and yes, I am 100% convinced that by doing Atkins I have ruined that wonderful part of myself. I feel like I have no choice but to do low carb again if I want to get rid of the weight and feel better.

Quite frankly, I would gladly put back on the pounds I originally lost, if I had known it would come to this. Yes, I needed to lose 20-25 pounds and I did, but had I known I would lose the ability to have a satisfying meal without paying for it, I would never have done it.

And even low carbing I have to be careful now. I have to use a low fat version because even high fat content bothers me now, not just the carb.

You would think that with all these stomach problems I have, I wouldn't have a weight problem, wouldn't you? :rolleyes:

[HLFAN]

Dear quietone, am so sorry you are having such problems!!!

:there: Have you been checked for hiatal herna or ulcer? I have a severe hiatal hernia. Carbs give me massive heartburn. So bad I thought I was having a heart attack!!

However, since I started LC I have only had heartburn once, instead of all day, almost every day. However, I am taking medication for it. (Nexium) The valve at the top of my stomach is literely not there. My Dr. says this is comman if you have a very hard labour (which I did) or other bad strain.

Have you Dr. check out you whole system. Perhaps you have something going on. It is very comman.

About gaining weight so fast, I don't know what's happening there. I gained 10 lbs a year in the last 5 years on a normal carb diet with lots of high carb binges.Now I'm feeling great so it's awful that you feel so bad.

There must be a solution. Perhaps reading some of the alternative plans would help you find someone with the same difficulties and there might be a better plan for you.

If fat is bothering you, get your gallbladder check. My brother hasn't had a low carb day in his life but had agonizing pain. They took his gallbladder out and now he's great (but still high carb and really overweight with type2 diabetes.

Please let us know how you're doing, All the best, nancy :wave:

[Jalilah]

Quietone and hlfan:

Wow... I didn't realize that it got that bad for people, but I've been discussing this issue with a few others who are also convinced that their metabolism AND digestive tract went to heck from long-term low carbing. I never had indigestion but for a couple of times in my life----but have had it a few times since going off the 'low carb' wagon.

Going to the doctor about the heartburn is definitely a smart move. I'm waiting myself for us to either get health insurance or be able to afford a doctor, but so far in the last month or two I've had two EXTREME bouts of "indigestion" that left me positively terrified because it hurt so bad....all the way up one side of my neck right into my jaw that I thought it was a heart attack! I mean, it was like a painful, painful sharp toothache...only in the entire jaw...not anywhere near the teeth. And the pressure in my chest...WOW! I've never experienced this before, but it's SCARY. Well, obviously they weren't heart attacks...I couldn't go to a dr. and I'm still here. LOL.. but MAN! I've a really, really high pain threshold and that was EXCRUCIATING!

Again, never had these problems before LC'ing.

Coincidence??? I do wonder.

[HLFAN]

Dear Jalilah, you have got the classic symtoms of acid reflux. Somehow you must see a Doctor asap. The tests and medication are very simple. You drink a horrible concoction, tastes like glue and chalk, and then they take pictures of your stomach. You stand on a machine that moves around.

I have seen several posts from USA members who have said they can't afford to go to the doctor!!!!!!!

Dear Lord, the USA is the richest country on the planet. Come on Canadians, let's cheer for old Tommy Douglas, who started Medicare! :clap: For those who don't know, he is Keifer Sutherland's grandfather. Until 20 years ago or so (can't remember) everyone in Canada paid for medicare every month.
I recall 30 bucks coming off my check . It's been along time since they stopped charging.

I've heard politicans in the states knocking Canadian medicare since there can be some long waiting lists. Hey, it's better to wait than not be able to go at all. Besides, I've never waited for anything. Had surgery 2x in last few years,no wait. Went to Emerg for x-ray last week, in and out in 1 1/2 hours, not so bad.

Now I'll get off my soapbox. I take nexium, 1 a day in the am on an empty stomach, and that's it. I do watch what I eat and don't eat anything heavy before bed. Darling, you must see Doctor now. I remember being up all night in agony, sometimes walking around the block over and over, pain in jaw, thinking I'm going to die. Broke down and went to emerg and within a few weeks had diagnosis and treatment. (At first they thought it was my gallbadder) I see Shutt22 takes nexium too. Not too expensive (I have drug plan luckily) The pain in chest is from acid rising into the esphogus, can cause serious damage.
Please, please find a way. Can you go to Emergency for free?
Write me asap how you are, {hug} nancy

:wave:

[Lisa N]

My DH had a lot of problems with reflux and heartburn before he started low carbing. Pepcid and Maalox were his best buddies! He hasn't had a case of heartburn since he started 11 months ago except for one night where he decided that our daughter's leftover french fries looked too good to pass up. Instant heartburn!
Many people report the same results...heartburn and reflux and even IBS clear up dramatically. I also read an interesting article that showed that broccoli (of all things) is more effective against the bacteria that causes ulcers (H. Pylori) than any antibiotic out there. Another good reason to eat your broccoli!

[Meg_S]

Just wanted to add my experience in for variety.
I'm 21, very active and cannot lose weight unless my carbs are under 30. Even then it is so slow it takes months to notice a tiny tiny change. I'm not talking about a clothing size, I'm talking about a size being looser in spots than before.

However! I've always been fat until now (I could argue that I am still fat, because there is a significant amount I still want to lose but I am fit and I look good). I have the same reactions to carbs - massive water gain, mood swings, tiredness - If I have enough of them I just fall asleep, terrible heartburn etc.
Until this past year I had never done lc consistently, I lost weight by doing it for 2-4 weeks at a time followed by a couple months of eating "normally" but with way more fat than most people would consider acceptable. It is clear to me that lc is something I must do for life.... is that bad? I think it's awesome.
It is funny how after a long period of not eating carbs they don't really taste as good as you remember them to... but the fat food tastes as heavenly as ever.

People think it's terrible that I don't eat chocolate...but when I decide to eat it I eat Lindor instead of Hersheys. I won't eat pie for dessert on a regular basis - but if I do it's homemade with a ton of whipped cream. I won't eat hot chocolate, but I have hot cocoa with stevia and heavy cream many days of the week. I don't drink latte's, but I will have espresso with a ton of whipped cream on top sprinkled with cinnamon to have a "cappuccino mit sahne"

I eat the best cheeses, meats, butter on vegetables, cream sauces soups goulashes I can't imagine food tasting better than what I eat.. and I lose weight. I don't have any heartburn or gas, I don't have energy crashes, if I need a burst of energy for anaerobic activity (like soccer or weight training) I'll drink some sports drink with dextrose or indulge in a sugary food. What is so bad about having to low carb to lose and maintain weight? I look at other women who are always hungry and eating bland dry low fat foods, watching calories and reluctantly passing on the butter steak and cheese and STILL cannot lose fat. Even though I have to keep my carbs lower than a normal person, I am happy to do so.

oops, this is longer than I meant it to be..
just my 2 cents.

Meg

[Lisa N]

I'd also like to point out that low carb is not meant to be a short term diet, but a change for life and this is not unique to low carb; the same thing will happen if you go off any diet and return to your old eating habits. If you go back to your old ways of eating once you lose the weight, the pounds will come back. After all, it was eating that way that got you overweight in the first place. Doesn't it make sense that you wouldn't be able to go back to eating that way and keep the weight off?
As for food allergies (which are rare) or intolerances (which are far more common); they can show up at any point in a person's life. You don't have to be born with them and the fact that you have been able to consume that food for many years without a problem doesn't mean that you can't suddenly develop an intolerance to it. Many people don't even realize they have them until they stop eating that particular food or food group for a while and then start eating them again.
For example, my DH is allergic to tree nuts but used to eat them all the time (pecans and macadamias were some of his favorite snacks). He got a rash on his wrist once in a while, but didn't realize what was causing it until he got tested for allergies. Now that he hasn't had nuts for several months, if he eats something with nuts in it without realizing it, the reaction is instant and much more severe than it was before.

[Jalilah]

(HLFAN...there's something I wrote below to you as well here!)

Originally posted by Lisa N
I'd also like to point out that low carb is not meant to be a short term diet, but a change for life and this is not unique to low carb; the same thing will happen if you go off any diet and return to your old eating habits. If you go back to your old ways of eating once you lose the weight, the pounds will come back. After all, it was eating that way that got you overweight in the first place.

LOL.. :p Well, actually, no. I'm not sure what you mean by "eating that way" but how I gained weight was good old-fashioned overeating!! Didn't matter what, but the amount. I've always done really well on LF/Low cal diets before, I was just board with the idea and wanted to try something else...so I went with Atkins.

Doesn't it make sense that you wouldn't be able to go back to eating that way and keep the weight off?

It depends, IMO, on how you gained weight to begin with. I have a vegetarian friend who's skinny as heck...and she eats tons of carbs! And it's not like she's gifted in the area of metabolism either, because she's gained weight before----from eating way too much.

As for food allergies (which are rare) or intolerances (which are far more common); they can show up at any point in a person's life. You don't have to be born with them and the fact that you have been able to consume that food for many years without a problem doesn't mean that you can't suddenly develop an intolerance to it. Many people don't even realize they have them until they stop eating that particular food or food group for a while and then start eating them again.

Problem is, I'm not eating anything different right now than I was on Atkins (OWL). just more of them.

See, what I've discovered while on Atkins for 7mos is that I simply cannot survive on those low carbs! I'm too active and I got to a point where all I wanted to do was sleep, and I barely had enough energy to get in the shower. Low carbing made me feel like the walking dead, and when you feel like that all the time---you might as well be because your quality of life is non-existant. From my first "refeed," even before I discovered CKD and TKD, within a few hours I felt like a brand new person. By the next day I was like "OMG! I wasn't eating enough carbs!" I'll NEVER go back to feeling like that again. Heck, I'd rather be fat and feel like a million bucks then look this a million and feel like like death! And after while those ugly dark circles under the eyes an pale palor aren't really so attractive...LOL.

Oh.... as for short-term/long-term diets: They're all meant to be long-term, unless it's one of those liquid or crash diets. Let's just put it like this: I was once on Richard Simmon's Deal-a-Meal program. I lost about 2lbs-2.5lbs per week consistently, never hit a plateau.....got down to 125lbs.....and at two scoops of Baskin Robbins fat free ice-cream EVERY SINGLE DAY as my dairy servings!!! But...then again, that's a low-cal diet, which is something I have to be careful of as well because of my activity level.

I've taken the past two weeks off from all cardio, and even dance practices (something I never do), just to sort of "reboot" the system. I'm starting it all back up again on Monday (tomorrow), though. I'm having trouble finding the right amount of calories to sustain what I do AND allow me to lose weight. I have a difficult system to work with, but I know I can't do the low carb thing anymore----it just makes me too sick.

HLFAN: Thanks for the concern, but I honestly can't go to the doctor right now. Last time I had to go to the emergency room it cost me $400, and I don't have that right now. The pain I described has only happened twice, so that's a good thing. If it becomes more frequent---well, we'll see. :p

You know, I worked at an extended stay hotel many, many years ago and a Canadian couple stayed with us a while there. The wife was really upset about how the whole healthcare system works here. She kept saying how she didn't understand how people could live this way----or allow this to happen. It's a money thing. Insurance companies are fat cats, and it would basically put most of them out of business----and that's about the way things are here for the most part. Some thing gov't runs the country, when most of us actually believe it's really "corporate America" that calls the shots.

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by Jalilah
Problem is, I'm not eating anything different right now than I was on Atkins (OWL). just more of them.

Are you not still doing the CKD? Switching from LC to low fat, very high glycemic carbs for 12, 24, or 36 hours is eating very differently from Atkins; and it does cause problems of the indigestion, heartburn and gasseous kind for many. Taking products like Lactaide and Beano are usually advised to help deal with them.

See, what I've discovered while on Atkins for 7mos is that I simply cannot survive on those low carbs! I'm too active and I got to a point where all I wanted to do was sleep, and I barely had enough energy to get in the shower. Low carbing made me feel like the walking dead, and when you feel like that all the time---you might as well be because your quality of life is non-existant. I don't have my copy of DANDR handy but I'm 99.9% sure that the good Dr specifically states you do not keep your carbs at <20g a day if you're very active. I believe when you attempted BFL you were also given advice to that effect. You simply cannot sustain an active lifestyle on Induction level carbs, and you shouldn't try.

Nat

[Jalilah]

Originally posted by Natrushka
Are you not still doing the CKD? Switching from LC to low fat, very high glycemic carbs for 12, 24, or 36 hours is eating very differently from Atkins; and it does cause problems of the indigestion, heartburn and gasseous kind for many. Taking products like Lactaide and Beano are usually advised to help deal with them.

I don't have my copy of DANDR handy but I'm 99.9% sure that the good Dr specifically states you do not keep your carbs at <20g a day if you're very active. I believe when you attempted BFL you were also given advice to that effect. You simply cannot sustain an active lifestyle on Induction level carbs, and you shouldn't try.

Nat

No. I stopped CKD when the energy level plummeted to nothing and I was literally having trouble lifting my arms to brush my hair. I was sleeping about 11 or so hours a day and really burning out before that half-way point at the gym. I got to where I found myself considering giving up going to the gym some days because I wasn't sure I'd make it through my workout. I always went, but it wasn't any fun, and I left feeling worse than before I'd gone.

As for Atkins---when I moved on to OWL... my weight loss never changed (well, lack of weight loss), and my carbs were around 35g/day---for weeks and weeks and weeks and I went out of ketosis and stayed out for that time as well. That was my CCL. BUT, at that level I still felt like the dead. It was really weird, but after a friend told me to "carb up," I felt 100% different. Not just "better," but "different." My thinking even became more positive.

Also, I never did BFL eating...just the workout. I tried to stay on Atkins but it wasn't working. I was just too tired. I had a stretch of eating too little, but when I corrected that by upping the fat----I still felt horrible, and eating all that fat was beginning to give me a good case of the heebie-jeebies. It was starting to gag me...literally. In fact, the other day we all went out for dinner and I decided to eat a fried catfish filet. I had to stop half way through because I had that "feeling" at the back of my throat like I was going to lose my food right there at the table. It took me about 3-4 min before I actually felt like I wasn't going to be sick.

I got to where, on the other board I go to, I never talked about it because there was so much conflicting suggestions: more fat, more carbs, less carbs, less calories, more calories, more exercise, less exercise----I thought I was going to get a brain bleed! LOL. Then I began talking with a couple of people and found that I wasn't the only one having problems. At least at that point I didn't feel like a pickle in a punchbowl anymore, so I at least was able to deal with it a bit better.

At some point I'll figure it out. I know I will.

I've not tried to do the BFL style eating, so maybe I'll give it a shot! LOL.... what have I got to lose? :p

Thanks, Natrushka! :wave:

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by Jalilah
Also, I never did BFL eating...just the workout. I tried to stay on Atkins but it wasn't working. I was just too tired.

Jalilah, I was referring to doing BFL with Atkins nutrition, not BFL foods. Increasing carbs from Induction level is recommended or you 'bonk' - feel tired, lethargic, unable to do anything let alone workout.

Nat

[Jalilah]

Originally posted by Natrushka
Jalilah, I was referring to doing BFL with Atkins nutrition, not BFL foods. Increasing carbs from Induction level is recommended or you 'bonk' - feel tired, lethargic, unable to do anything let alone workout.

Nat

Oh.. okay. yeah.. I found that out QUICK!!! :p I went to CKD once I realized that I did bonk in a major way! Don't get me wrong, though, I think CKD is THE COOLEST!!! And it actually seemed to be okay for a couple of weeks, then I found that I was REALLY having to push my workouts to RIGHT after the carb up, and that Friday depletion workout was killing me. Anything I tried to do inbetween----just wasn't working.

When I asked Lyle about it (and it was in his book too), he told me that trying to workout or do very physical things later in the week doing CKD is nearly impossible for most. He said that with all the dance practices, etc. that the weekend carb ups probably wouldn't carry me. I lost the first week because I kept my carbs to 20g (like everyone else was doing), but I felt really bad the second week by weeks-end. So the following week I upped my carbs... seemed like I was doing a lot of things, but still no differences on the scale. I "think" my clothes were getting looser, but I'm really not sure...wasn't significant enough for me to know for certain.

I guess I just became so tired of feeling bad that I just gave up. I weighed the choices---skinny or healthy, skinny or healthy---and healthy won.

At some point, and I can't remember when exactly, I took my carbs to 60g. I felt "okay," but never "good."

[Lisa N]

Jalilah...

I was actually responding to quietone and her issues, but I'm glad you read through it to see if it applied to you too.

[Jalilah]

Originally posted by Lisa N
Jalilah...

I was actually responding to quietone and her issues, but I'm glad you read through it to see if it applied to you too.

Whoops! Don't I feel stupid!! I'm sorry about that. :blush:

[TKDbunny]

Jalilah-

Just my two cents here. It seems like you feel like you have to choose between a very low carb diet and a very high carb, low calorie diet. Have you tried something in between? A zone-type diet (40% carbs, 30% protein, 30% fat) might be what you need. Also, when you do get health insurance, you might have your thyroid levels checked, if you haven't already. Fatigue and difficulty losing weight are two big symptoms of hypothyroid. Hang in there! It takes a long time to figure out what works best for your body. I've been working on figuring out what's right for me for over 5 years-- and I'm only 23! Good luck!

:) Sabrina

[Jalilah]

Originally posted by TKDbunny
Jalilah-

Just my two cents here. It seems like you feel like you have to choose between a very low carb diet and a very high carb, low calorie diet. Have you tried something in between? A zone-type diet (40% carbs, 30% protein, 30% fat) might be what you need. Also, when you do get health insurance, you might have your thyroid levels checked, if you haven't already. Fatigue and difficulty losing weight are two big symptoms of hypothyroid. Hang in there! It takes a long time to figure out what works best for your body. I've been working on figuring out what's right for me for over 5 years-- and I'm only 23! Good luck!

:) Sabrina

Wow, TKDBunny-----you sound exactly like Lyle McDonald!! I swear he said those exact words to me on his BB. :p He did set up a Zone-like diet for me, but it's really weird because I'm actually picking up weight---and it's fat for sure (puffy & clothes are much tighter).

At some point we'll have health insurance. Don't know when, but some day. LOL... and I'm going to have that checked, as well as this acid reflux thing I'm going through too. How do I know it's acid reflux? LOL.. easy, it's either that or I've had multiple heart attacks...hehehe..and since I'm still here, I think it's acid reflux. It's horribly, horribly painful, so I may be forced to go in for that anyway.

Thanks for your two cents, TKDBunny. It's worth more than two cents to me! :thup:

[TKDbunny]

Very cool! I sincerely hope that works for you. Good luck! Let us know how it goes... :)

[Jalilah]

Originally posted by TKDbunny
Very cool! I sincerely hope that works for you. Good luck! Let us know how it goes... :)

Well, so far it feels like I'm gaining. Clothes tighter, etc. So not sure what to do. I've been toying with the idea of actually trying the BFL style eating.

...my poor body's probably going "huh?" :confused: LOL

[TKDbunny]

BFL is very similar to the zone (40/40/20 vs. 40/30/30) I did them both off and on for a couple of years. But how long have you tried what Lyle suggested? You can't tell if something's working unless you give it a couple weeks -- longer if it's near your TOM. Also, how is your sodium intake? And are you getting enough water? If I don't drink enough water or eat too much sodium I get crazily bloated. You are doing exactly what I always do-- try something for a couple days, read something and then think, oh! maybe I should try that! and switch. Try really hard just to stick with one thing for a month or so before you make changes. That's the only way to know for sure if it's working for you. :)

[alangaud]

Jalilah,
I'm a 39 year old woman, and have been reading posts on this site for months... been doing this WOL for about 1-1/2 years, with a low compliance phases of about 6 months in the middle. I am at the end of my 1st BFL challenge...

Now for my 2 cents worth. Your body makes enzymes to deal with the kinds of foods you normally eat. That's why most of us feel so horrible when we change our diets in any major way. (Going low carb from high carb, OR falling off the low carb wagon.) The longer you've been eating a certain way, the more horrible the change will feel - whether you are going from an unhealthy eating plan to a healthy one (or the other way around). As a comparison, if you quit smoking, you wouldn't expect to feel great the 1st week (or even the 1st month) would you? even though it is a healthy change.

So, IMHO to feel good in any WOE, you need to do it CONSISTANTLY. I have been eating 20-25 g of carbs for 4 months AND doing BFL. It was hard to exercise at first, but now my body has adjusted, and it's great. I KNOW I this would not be the case if my carb intake was not consistant. (I have tried it before, inconsistantly...) The only confirmation I have had for my theory, besides my personal experience and my knowldege of physiology, is Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. He recommends keeping carbs at no more than 15 g per meal, and lifting weights. (He has been doing this himself for decades.) Now, he and most of his patients have no choice in the matter - they are diabetic. Anyway, I just wanted to make the point that it CAN be done to stay very low carb, and work out hard, but it will take a while (think months, not weeks) to feel good and you must not yoyo on the carbs. Personally, I think it's worth it, and you'd better believe that I don't want to go through the struggle of getting there again... :)

BTW I have a hard time loosing weight too. I have gained probably 5 lbs of muscle doing BFL. (I can see muscles in my arms and legs and feel much stronger.) The scales weight has stayed about the same (143 lbs, 5' 3''), but I am pretty close to my goal. (I'd like to be 125, but I haven't weighed under 130 in about 10 years...)

Anyway, didn't think this would be so long, and I appreciate all your posts Jalilah and Natrushka!

--Alangaud

[nkd2662]

I am not sure if this has already been adressed because I have not read through all the posts but- have you had a baby or a pregnancy in the recent past? I was at my doctors yesterday getting some labs done becuase I think that I too am hypothyroid. Anyway, he told me that after a pregnancy- one tends to have a much lower basal metabolic rate than before hand. He also said that depression alters metabolic rate. Aren't women sooo lucky to have all of these funky hormones! Jeez...




:wave:

[ykmaggie]

Hi

Yes I'm hypo too. I've been tracking my morning temperature for the last few days. The highest reading I'm getting is 97.6. That's a whole degree low.

Low carbing lowers thyroid hormone levels, but I can't seem to lose on 100 gms so, I have to figure out what the best level is for me. I've been doing 60 gms, haven't lost a thing the last two weeeks, and I'm also lowering my metobolism.

Yup hormones suck. I hope you have a good doctor? If you want info about thyroid stuff, email me privately. Being properly medicated is critical to your getting better.

Take care

Maggie

[Scarlet]

Jaliah

Have you ever heard of the insulin resistance diet? 30 carbs are allowed per meal and it is lower fat then other plans ( although I don't do the low fat aspect). Maybe it might suit you. I reviewed it in the plan comparison section.

[freydis]

I'm not trying to bring everyone down, but it is entirely possible to have multiple heart attacks and survive them. It happened to me. I finally had one bad enough to go to the doctor (different one than now) and he diagnosed it as a pinched nerve. I ended up in the hospital for a triple bypass within a few days of that visit. (and they wanted to do five but two veins were too small for surgery)

Your life is more important than any amount of money. Any person, male OR female, who has heart attack symptoms should head straight for the hospital. Better to pay up and feel foolish later than to die because you couldn't afford care.

[Margme]

I agree with Jalil ....not all bodies are alike....some are radically different from others. I myself don't expect to lose more than 20 lbs tops on this plan...I have been on Atkins for 3 months and LC wol as well. With all the diligiance of a person craving to lose weight.....I onlly lost 15 - 20 lbs....I'll take it, but I will never lose like the others I read about, and I have plenty to lose! The one thing I do like tho, is not being a slave to my cravings. The cravings do go away but my big appetite never will....it runs in the genes. My hope is to keep active ...very active...every day and I can say I've done my best.


Marg

[addictmeHM]

So... is the final answer Yes or No for "Do we mess up our metabolic rates doing LC?"... sorry, didn't quite get the answer after reading all the posts.

[huggs2ewe]

hmmm this is an old post. I did not read all of the answers but I was surprised by some of the experiences. I have had nothing but positive changes with this way of eating. Significantly decreased IBS symptoms, wt loss and energy for the new me! I think our bodies are so use to the high carbs/ over size portions that in this WOE we have gotten our bodies use to using good protiens and carbs in the way of veggies rather than processed white flour that when we have it our body reacts. Mind you I have had the odd piece of bread to sop up butter with my escargot without any real damage noted, but when I had 1/2 a bagel I had a major IBS attack. So my earlier problems were obviously wheat/ gluten related. The one thing to remember when you get onto Maintenance you will always have to remain lc/ you can have a bit of the "rarely eat" stuff but this is a wol not just a diet. Thats the point... you can't eat the fat/ protein and the carbs again without gaining.