since doing atkins been feeling sleepy all day and tired/sad no energy

[mikeroger]

since doing atkins been feeling sleepy all day and tired/sad no energy

i started last wednesday its been 2 weeks, and i been eating around 1800 calories, im not hungry, i get all my vegetable (dark green leafy, kale swiss chard, spinach,brocoli, watercress, celeri)

im under 20 grams of carbs per day, i eat minimum 120 grams of protein per day, i eat the fat of the chicken, the egg yolks, i eat butter with food/mayo

whats wrong, where the hell is the energy burst.

i take all supplements, calcium/magnesium/potassium/glutamine/multi vitamin.

omega 3-6-9.

i feel sleepy all day every day whats up with this?

[tofi]

i started last wednesday its been 2 weeks,

Hello Mike:

I'm trying to get the time frame straight: you started "last Wednesday" but was that Sept 18 or Sept 25 (or some other date), because it isn't 2 weeks since either of those dates yet? Your profile says you started LCing "one month ago" and in other threads, you have been reporting that you are doing your own version of a kind of "fat fast".

Did you lose the 35 pounds in your stats in that two weeks or were you on another plan before low carbing?
35 pounds in 2 weeks would be astounding and extremely hard on your body.

If you have now (last Wednesday) started Induction as written in the DANDR, it would be very usual to feel tired and even headachy or light-headed as your body adjusts during the first week.

The newest edition of DANDR (red cover) talks about people who feel tired while on Induction - page 140. It can be from too fast loss of weight, water or minerals. He recommends slowing down the rate of loss by adding a serving of veggies at the evening meal or 1-2 ounces of nuts or seeds.

Finally, not everything that happens in our bodies and our moods is due to Atkins or low-carbing. We are still likely to catch a cold or the flu, or be depressed about other things that happen in our lives.

Personally, I never did get the energy burst that other people talk about. I can still have an afternoon nap when circumstances allow. I certainly hope that by keeping to the Atkins plan as written in the book, you will feel better and less tired soon.

:wave:

[tofi]

OK, I went back through all your posts and found this one for August in which you told about your starvation diet loss of the 35 pounds. http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=503404#post503404

The advice about exercise given back in that thread about exercise was probably the best one you could have been given. Atkins is NOT a fast way to lose fat or weight, except in the very first 2 weeks. You don't seem to have lost any pounds since August and have not been following Induction or any level of Atkins (according to your own posts).

All of us would LOVE to drop 30 pounds of fat and be lean, mean, muscle machines in 2 weeks, but it just doens't happen. Some people are lucky and lose wonderfully but they all follow exactly what is in the book. Others of us follow the book but stall for long months.

I'd bet that your starvation diet has sent your body into "conservation" because it fears you are in a famine and in danger of starving. So it won't let go of any of its assets. A metabolism that is in this state needs weeks of steady feeding before it takes a chance and lets go of some stored fat.

However, with adequate protein and fat intake and the veggie and salad carbs on the Induction list, the body WILL eventually consent to let the scales show a lower number.

At the same time, if you are exercising, you will be putting on muscle mass which uses calories faster and even keeps burning off fat after you finish the exercise. And you will get smaller in terms of inches and the fit of your clothes as you trade muscle for fat by exercising. You could weigh more than your goal but look leaner and better because of the increased muscle.

Please consider doing the Induction in the book for the full 2 weeks, then going on to the next level. After the loss you have already accomplished, you probably will not get a big loss, but you will begin to take better care of your body.

All the best. :wave:

[mikeroger]

listen, i did the fat fast for 3 days simply to get quickly into ketosis.

i ate 1000 calories 90% fat for 3 days only, then after that i stopped fat fast, cuz the strips of ketones showed purple. then i increased my protein to around 30% and fat decreased to 70% and carbs were like 3% (around 15 grams per day through green leafy vegetable, spinach, swiss chard, endive , celery)

i eat around 1700-1900 calories per day, im bout to begin body building on monday with my friend

so im going to simply add a can of tuna + the regular 3 eggs for breakfast to get enough protein and when i get back from the gymn i add another can of tuna for the body to repair muscle tissue.

so ill be consuming around 150 grams of protein per day when i begin workout body building

i always make sure i eat fat with my proteins , which means adding mayo to tuna , or eating skin fo chicken, etc..

eggs omelete in 1 table spoon of butter

always making sure fat content is around 70%, protein is 30%

now i hope that this 1900~ calorie diet will be perfect for body building and fat loss.

Now my side effects of being low on carb, is excessive sleepiness during the day, tired, fatigued, no energy. some say this will go after 1-2 weeks and energy will burst when the brain/body gets used to ketones.

also , i spoke to my friend whos a pre-med and works out, he says if u stay in ketosis and ketones will become aciditic or something and can be fatal , it can cause liver failure. he says its dangerous to remain in that state of mode of fuel as it was made only for starvation and not real life living.

he says anything thats high such as protein/carb/or fat is not good, anything low such as carb/protein fat is not good either

he says the best balance in human life is 33% carb, 33% protein, 33% fat out of your daily 2000 calories.



now im gonna do the diet like atkin said:

i believe if you lose weight to fast, your definately losing too much muscle/water. so the weight scale is useless.

1 pound a day stuff is definatly 90% water/muscle.

im doing a 1800~ calorie diet (sometimes ranging from 1700-2000) around that, itll be 2000 when i begin body building.

you guys think its good?

around 70% dietary fat (butter/mayo/skin of fish/meat)

30% protein (eggs,tuna,fish,meat)

and rest around 10-15 grams of carbs through green leafy vegetable/garlic.

is that good?

and calories do matter as always, so if im consuming around 2000 calories a day for body building or 1800 calories a day for no body building, i think im doing just fine right.

now as for the side effects of lack of carbs causied by the brain demanding glucose, when will that go away?

Also since the brain is demanding glucose that means i gotta eat more protein to satisfy the brain's glucose + get enough for my muscles? or just eat the amount of protein to maintain muscle tissue and forget about the brain whinning until it get adjusted with ketones?

[tofi]

There are so many misconceptions and so much misinformation in your last post that it is hard to know where to start.

listen, i did the fat fast for 3 days simply to get quickly into ketosis.

Listen: I refer you to your post of Sept 25th: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62800&perpage=15&pagenumber=1 in which you state:
im gonna do this fat fast for 2 weeks or more until i lose a good 15 pounds of pure body fat.


also , i spoke to my friend whos a pre-med and works out, he says if u stay in ketosis and ketones will become aciditic or something and can be fatal , it can cause liver failure. he says its dangerous to remain in that state of mode of fuel as it was made only for starvation and not real life living.
also , i spoke to my friend whos a pre-med and works out, he says if u stay in ketosis and ketones will become aciditic or something and can be fatal , it can cause liver failure. he says its dangerous to remain in that state of mode of fuel as it was made only for starvation and not real life living.

Ketosis is NOT the same as ketoacidosis which is a dangerous condition FOR A DIABETIC. This is a result of BLOOD SUGARS being out of control. Someone in ketosis has VERY STABLE blood glucose readings. Tell your pre-med friend to be sure of his terms and research before pontificating.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49711&highlight=ketosis+AND+ketoacidosis

The brain very happily uses ketones for fuel and health researchers have found that the heart PREFERS ketones for fuel. And ketones may even protect the brain from some factors. http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50377&highlight=ketones+AND+fuel

So far, you haven't liked, accepted or apparently believed nor acted on ANY suggestion that has been given on this board. If you believe everything your friend has told you, perhaps the friend is where you should be asking your questions and 'listen' to the answers.

[Lisa N]

Mike..

You may want to go back to your friend in medical school and ask them to explain the differece between benign dietary ketosis and diabetic ketoacidosis. It seems he's got the two rather confused.
Our ancestors and the Inuits lived in a general state of dietary ketosis for months at a time and did just fine with it. Grains have only been a regular part of the human diet for about the last 10,000 years or so. You may also want to check out the writings of the explorer Stefansson who lived on an a meat and fat diet similar to the Inuits (no veggies or carbs at all) for one year while under constant medical supervision (in a hospital) and at the end of that year was pronounced to be "in good health", although 6 lbs. slimmer. Doesn't sound too dangerous to me.
Next, while there are a few cells in our bodies that require glucose, they are very few and the 20 grams of carb that you are supposed to eat daily while on induction provide plenty of glucose for those cells to function quite well. The rest of the cells in your body (brain and heart included) function quite happily on ketones as their energy source and as Tofi pointed out, in some cases they function better on ketones than they do on glucose. There's no need to increase protein to supply extra glucose.
Last, I'd really recommend (and Dr. Atkins agrees with me) that you wait on beginning any strenous exercise program such as body building until your body has adapted completely to burning ketones for energy instead of carbs. This usually takes about 2 weeks. Your workouts will be ineffective and much more difficult if you attempt it sooner, but that's up to you.
What you're eating right now sounds about right but the total should add up to 100% (ie 67% fat, 30% protein, 3% carbs = 100% of your daily calories). I also wouldn't expect any dramatic weight loss until your metabolism begins to trust that you won't starve it again. This could take several weeks, so be patient.

[mikeroger]

hi,

its confusing though because im afraid of getting too close to 20grams per day of carbs. i think im always between 10-15 incase some hidden carb arisie, i have a 5 carb cushion to compensate.

also , when will the energy burst come?. my ketone strips show purple.so obviously im in ketosis.

i did fat fast for only 3 days. and stopped it, it was simply to get into deepketosis .then i increased calories to 1800~ and ate 120-130grams of protein a day along with a good 70% fat and rest are carbs through spinach,endive,swiss chard. (spinach,endive are like so little in carb i can eat like big bowls of them , theyhave like 0.1 gramof carb per 100grams of serving, the whole bag is like 170grams).

pretty fantastic, basicallly i eat spinach , swiss chard and all verylow carb under 1 gram vegetable, i eat in large quantities.

i ate a pretty big fish today ,it was thick and large,my mom did the mistake and put some black peper/salt /fresh lemon on it. imafraid it may have screwed things up. i took off the lemon from it but its juices prolly entered the fish.

my salad dressing = red wine vinegar , olive oil , salt. i dont use lemon juice it has carbs.

now whats an ounce? how big is an ounce?

protein power says 1 ounce of meat/fish is usually 7 grams of protein , iwanna know how much protein i ate in that fish and burger.

also , im tired of being sleepy all day! i have no cravings, im not hungry . im tired,fatigued,sleepy,unable to concentrate, depressed.

i know its the lack of glucose inmy body, and my brain is demanding glucose and transmitting signs of tiredness.

when will my brain stop that and use ketones?

i started "serious low carb" on the 19th, its now 29th. strips showed purple around 26th when i stopped fat fast. its still purple.

so i guess i must wait longer for these feelings to go? i hope ill get an energyburst cuz i really need it to muster the energy when i do bodybuilding.

also despite high fat/hig protein food i eat, im not getting bowel movements... and i do eat fiber and lots of psyllium husk.

but its not that im constipated, im just not getting any bowel movement, what gives?

when will this so called energy burst come?

also is dijon mustard allowed on induction?and dill pickles?

whats cheapest form of protein u guys get?,ifound that tuna cans and sardines are pretty good protein food before workout.

_____

Post edited to remove offensive swear words.

Mike, I realize this is mostly an adult based forum, however please refrain from using offensive language in your post.

Thanks
AC

[Lisa N]

One question. How much water are you drinking? Deep purple on the test strips could indicate dehydration and that would go a long ways towards explaining your tiredness. It could also indicate that you are just eating a lot of fat. The tiredness could also mean that you just aren't getting enough carbs (or a combination of all of the above). Heck...you could just be tired because you weren't eating properly for several weeks before you started low carbing and your body just hasn't recovered from that yet. Just as a side note; doing the fat fast probably didn't get you into ketosis any faster than doing induction as written in the book would. They both take about 3 days because you don't get into ketosis until your glycogen stores are used up and that takes roughly 3 days, even on the fat fast. Being in "deep ketosis" as you say doesn't mean that you will lose weight faster. Ketosis is like being pregnant, either you are or you aren't. There's no such thing as being a "little bit" in ketosis just as there's no such thing as being a "little bit" pregnant. I'd shoot for pink on the strips instead of purple (if I actually used those things, which I don't).
Some people never get that "energy burst" you keep referring to, but extreme tiredness beyond the two weeks on induction is not a common thing unless you are either a) not eating enough or b) not taking your supplements and drinking sufficient water (nothing else counts...just water). If you are consuming beverages with caffeine in them, this increases your water requirements because caffeine is a diuretic.
Don't fret about the lemon juice; it's very low in carbs and it's doubtful that you got more than a teaspoon on your fish. Herbs and spices also are negligible in carbs and shouldn't be counted unless large amounts are used. Salt and pepper don't have any carbs to the best of my knowledge.
To estimate ounces of protein, 4 ounces is roughly the size of a deck of cards and different types of meat have different amounts of protein per gram. Tuna is a cheap source of protein (though I'd get sick of eating it quickly) as are chicken (not the boneless, skinless kind) and eggs. The cheapest chicken is usually to get a whole one and cut it up yourself or roast the whole chicken and then cut it up.
Dijon mustard has either 0 or less than 1 gram of carb per teaspoon (depends on the brand and what's in it...read the label). Dill pickles vary in carbs (again, depending on what's in the brine), but generally have about 1 gram of carb per ounce.
As far as no bowel movements, again, that indicates to me that you're probably not getting enough water. You need both fiber and water to keep from getting constipated.
Chill and treat your body good for a while; it'll respond when it's ready.

[mikeroger]

im drinking galons of water, its not water, im getting tonz of fiber through psyllium husk capsules , and spinach, swiss chard, endive, escarole.

so its not water, its not fiber, . a friend of mine said u will never get bowel movement on a low carb diet not cuz u dont have the fibers but because u dont have carb which are quickly dumped . fat/protein doesnt get dumped without the carbs .

so that would explain it, the body is extracting nutrients from the fat/protein in the bowel and i guess theres nothing to dump?

i eat lots of food around 1900 calories, tons of protein, fat with each protein meal and vegetables tonz of spinach, endive, swiss chard as they are so low on carbs.

i mean im getting more than my required protein need , im getting all the fat i need, im gettinga ll vegetables.

im doing everything right, yet im sleepy all day long, im getting my supplements.


about ketosis. yes there are different levels of ketosis. deeper you are in the ketosis= the more ketones are circulating, . thats why atkin says EAT FAT with ur protein, why? Ketones are produced by the breakdown of fat stores/dietary fat intake. so the more intake of fat, the more ketones are pumped. the deeper you get into your ketogenic diet. if u do a low fat, high protein, low carb diet, youll secret very little ketones burning fat muchj much slower

maybe i just gotta stick with this for another week being consistent, eating my usually 1900 calories, getting my protein , my fat and carbs every day.

not sure if i should begin weight training, since im kinda tired and not much energy.

people say when u begin the diet u feel down on energy but as soon as u get into ketosis u jump in joy, burst of energy. well im in ketosis and theres no joy or energy.

god..
im gonna call atkins tomorrow their office and tell the wtf is going on.

[Rosebud]

a friend of mine said u will never get bowel movement on a low carb diet not cuz u dont have the fibers but because u dont have carb which are quickly dumped

Here's a thought, Mike.

Why don't you try getting your information from the book rather than from a "friend?"

I've never heard such nonsense as what your "friend" told you! There are people out there who have been eating the low carb way for many years. Does your friend really believe they can go all that time without a bowel movement?

If you are not having any bowel actions at all, you need to increase the amount of fibre you are getting. Have you fed your stats into www.fitday.com ?
You may not be getting sufficient psyllium in the capsules. Dr Atkins recommends mixing a tablespoon into a full glass of water daily and drinking it down.

As for the rest of your problems, I can only suggest you reread all of the excellent advice you've been given in this thread and others.

:rose:Rosebud:rose:

[Lisa N]

Originally posted by mikeroger

so its not water, its not fiber, . a friend of mine said u will never get bowel movement on a low carb diet not cuz u dont have the fibers but because u dont have carb which are quickly dumped . fat/protein doesnt get dumped without the carbs .

so that would explain it, the body is extracting nutrients from the fat/protein in the bowel and i guess theres nothing to dump?



I can tell you from personal experience that your friend is rather misinformed. You don't need carbs for anything including bowel movements; otherwise I think we would have seen Inuits dying en masse from bowel obstructions and I can't imagine Stefansson going an entire year without pooping and surviving let alone being pronounced "in good health". Fats and proteins are digested a bit more slowly, but once digested move through your gastrointestinal tract at pretty much the same speed as anything else, assuming you are getting adequate fiber and water intake. When you make a big change in your diet (ANY kind of diet), your body may respond with either constipation OR diarrhea for a short while until the body adjusts, but rest assured, it will adjust and things will return to normal in a short time (a few weeks max).
A call to the Atkins center might not be a bad idea, but keep in mind that the information that they give you will only be as good as the information you give them, so make sure you give them the full and accurate picture (including past dieting history) if you want any kind of an accurate and useful response.

[mikeroger]

yes im getting enoug psyllium , 6 capsules every night, not enough

thats the limit the bottle says.
last time i took large glass with magnesium in it, i went to do some poopoo but rest of it was water. yet i had eaten a huge beefy, fat, protein meal and only some of it was poo poo rest of it was liquid.


go figure.

[Lisa N]

Originally posted by mikeroger

last time i took large glass with magnesium in it



You do realize that magnesium is a laxative, right?

[mikeroger]

yep

we arent allowed laxative i assume in induction>?

i took psyllium, it does jack

[Rosebud]

Mike, you didn't answer my question about the fibre in your vegies. It sounds to me as though you need to be eating a lot more fibre in vegie form.

And as a registered nurse, let me tell you that laxatives are never a good idea. Especially if you start using them early in life (I presume you are quite young).

All the best!

:rose:Rosebud:rose:

[mikeroger]

yes i do eat fibers, i eat 1 big bowl large salad of spinach, with endive in it, swiss chard.

every day, sometimes twice a day big bowl of spinach. i do go to the bathroom but most of the stuff that comes out is the spinach i ate. not the food !!!!!! or chicken, or meat

so something is wrong!

[Lisa N]

Originally posted by mikeroger
yep

we arent allowed laxative i assume in induction>?

i took psyllium, it does jack

Laxatives are allowed, if needed, but magnesium citrate is overkill which is why your bowel movements were largely liquid. Mag citrate is used when someone is prepping for a sigmoidoscopy or colonoscopy to make sure the bowel is well cleaned out (which yours probably is by now) and works by pulling large amounts of water into the colon to precipitate evacuation.
Psyllium capsules may not be effective for you. Find some plain psyllium husks (nothing else added) and mix with a glass of water and down it quickly. Psyllium husks are good for adding bulk which you may need after that dose of mag citrate you gave yourself.

[Lisa N]

By the way...when I said to drink the psyllium husks quickly, I didn't mean that you had to do it immediately, only that once the psyllium and water are mixed you have to drink it fast or it turns into a glassfull of goo that you would need to eat with a spoon instead of drink.

[mikeroger]

i spoke to a couple people on the net that said they did low carb, atkin diet and their families did it too.

they said they never got any energy burst even after 3 months, they were eating 2000 calories sometimes more, never hungry but they never got energy bursts

and they were tired all the time

the guy said he lost around 15 lbs in 2 months then he stopped the diet cuz he was always tired and energy drained.

What gives???? idont wanna live the rest of my life low on energy if its low carb!


some of you low carb gurus please explain this. why do people after months of low carbing are still not energetic? isnt fat supposed to pump you up?

or is carb energy much faster than fat energy which is slower to pump you up?

[agonycat]

Mike,

Go to www.atkinscenter.com and ask them.

I don't think anyone on this forum could answer your question since non of us give medical advice.

I know I got a burst of energy after 3 weeks. Not sure why you aren't.

Go ask the good Doctor himself.

Since you asked the question in your original thread and again else where I have merged the two together so as to keep the responses together.

[Angeline]

I complained about the same thing. Low energy levels. This is what Ezandreth posted. I folllowed his advice and found it helped me

Originally posted by ezandreth
I did not get that for ages. Kept reading how everyone else did, but i was just TATT (tired all the time).
But I did get it in the end, when I simultaneously gave up dairy and started taking alpha-lipoic acid. I have since eaten cream and cheese and should probably cut down (it's just that cheese is such a handy convenience food) so I think it's the ALA that was significant.
Read all about it

http://www.supplementwatch.com/supatoz/supplement.asp?supplementId=15

and see what you think. The article says it's harmless so you could try taking it and seeing if it makes a difference.
Zan

[Lisa N]

Mike...

Let's review a few things here.

First....you said in previous posts in August that you had basically starved yourself for a month (nothing but a few tomatoes and some cucumbers every day).

Second...In another recent post, you said that you were doing your own version of the Fat Fast (again, low calorie), and while it's effective for those who are metabolically resistant, it's still not a wonderful experience and for those that are NOT metabolically resistant, it can be dangerous (which you were cautioned here on this board and Dr. Atkins also says clearly in his book)

Third...Here is this post, you are taking the max amount of psyllium capsules allowed and then dose yourself with magnesium citrate, which is a very harsh laxative.....

And you wonder why you are tired and not feeling so great??? Dude...come on here! You can't abuse your body like this and expect it feel fantastic and full of energy! It's going to take at least a couple of weeks (maybe longer) of treating it right before you see some improvement.
As for those who said they followed Atkins/low carb and didn't get that "energy burst", I can't really comment since I have no idea precisely what they were or weren't doing. I mentioned before that not everyone gets what would be called an energy burst, but that it's not common to feel dragged out and excessively tired on low carb unless you have some other problem going on in which case, a trip to the doctor would be in order.

[mikeroger]

for god sake, i told you the starvation thing that happened in the august part of the summer would be little calories during the week then carb fest in weekend, then same thing during week and carb fest during weekend.

it worked last year, where id cheat where id stuff myself with EVERYTHING thousands of calories in one day of junk, food, fat, chicken, etcc for 1 day then go back to low calorie for rest of the week.

some said this jump starts the metabolism,

i did that and lost like 40lbs during last summer of 2001, of pure fat then i went back to normal eating(or maybe it was excess binging normal eating for 8 months) and regained 60 lbs

LOL
now im eating like 3 meals a day(never did this in my entire life, i always skip breakfast and eat maybe 1 main meal at dinner with family and the rest would be snacks all over the place with junk)

nway im eating 3 meals a day

Here's the diet :

BreakFast :
3 Eggs Omelette cooked into 1 table spoon of butter
(i dont eat cheese cuz atkin said it may cause stalls/addiction)

Lunch :
2 Cup Spinach Salad, half a cup of Endive , Red Wine Vinegair Dressing . 3 Table Spoon Butter melted over the spinach salad.
2 Garlic clove broken over the

2 Tuna Cans , Red Wine Vinegar Over it.
2 Garlic clove broken over the tuna.

Dinner :
2 Cup Spinach Salad, half a cup of Endive , Red Wine Vinegair Dressing .

2 Sardine Cans (omega3 fatty acids)(red wine vinegar dressing)
3 Table Spoon of Mayonaise sauce with 2 Garlic Clove in it.



and i RARELY AM HUNGRY at night for snacks, i go to bed around 10:30

i wake up at 9:30/10, i feel sleepy , exausted all day.
Some said the sleepiness , low alertness, fatigue , is cuz ur brain is demanding glucose and those are signs of low carb intake, and the low blood sugar, hypoglecemia everyone experiences on low carb diet.

where the h* is this burst of energy, this low carb life is expansive and i need to know if i will get energy back to study for school!

[agonycat]

Mike,

Maybe you missed the first time....please refrain from using offensive language in your posts.

I have edited the above post and removed the offensive language.


You want to know when the energy burst is coming? Go to www.atkinscenter.com and ask them.

THEY can assist you in your quest for answers. It seems no matter what we tell you here is good enough of an answer for you.

[melissa07]

Wow, you would think with all the great advice you've been given, you'd at least listen to some of it. Choosing a way of eating for life is not about instant gratification. It sounds as if you've toyed with your metabolism a lot, and it may not respond the way you wish it would now. How much energy do you need to study for school? If you are that tired all the time, maybe there are issues other than your diet.

People on this forum are here to help. It is up to you whether or not you choose to listen. I'm not sure how old you are, but there is no need to swear or be offensive in this forum.

[Talon]

Hi Mike!

Have you put in your daily menu into www.fitday.com to see the nutrients? With a mainly fish diet, you could possibly getting some unbalanced nutrients - Iron comes to mind first. Too much iron can be bad, and too little iron can be bad. Your Dr. would be able to tell you if you are deficinet or not. What does your Dr. say?

I agree with Lisa, that your restrictive eating in August - really not that long ago, could be a problem - you body may still be recovering from that. Metabolism's can take quite some time to recover, if it all.

You also mentioned that this way of eating worked last year - well you are another year older and our bodies change, what worked last year may not work this year.

Do you get enough sleep? Take any medications that maybe a side affect would be feeling run down?

Good to see that you are in school, what are you studying?

[Lisa N]

Originally posted by mikeroger
, i told you the starvation thing that happened in the august part of the summer would be little calories during the week then carb fest in weekend, then same thing during week and carb fest during weekend.

it worked last year, where id cheat where id stuff myself with EVERYTHING thousands of calories in one day of junk, food, fat, chicken, etcc for 1 day then go back to low calorie for rest of the week.


Hmmm...that's not quite what you said here:http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=503407#post503407

Your story keeps changing, Mike and at this point it's honestly a bit difficult to know what to say or believe.

What you're eating right now would be a decent amount, but with your history of binging then starving, it's going to take your body quite a while to trust that you won't do it again. At this point your body doesn't know whether you're going to starve it or feed it and is holding out until it gets a steady supply for a while. Yo-yo dieting (where you lose the weight only to gain it back again) has a way of making your body more resistant to weight loss every time you do it not to mention that it's very unhealthy for your body.
I'm worried that you are reporting a habit of binging then starving because that is not a healthy eating pattern. In some cases, it could even signal the beginning of an eating disorder.
My advice at this point would be to pick a healthy way of eating, whatever you decide that to be, and stick with it for a minimum of 3 months, then stay with a healthy maintainance program so the weight doesn't come back on again. If you stick with what you've been doing, it won't be long before you wind up with a seriously damaged metabolism if it isn't that way already.

[mikeroger]

my story never changed,w hat are you talking about lisa N.

i told you i did many different diets during the summer and early sept before i officially began induction atkin style.

one thing i dont understand is that atkin said eat high protein, high fat, low carb. Now, the point is how much protein is required to retain lean muscle tissue and how much protein is consider high, over the requirement? or at the minimum protein requirement?

how much fat to eat , too much fat = not good according to some people on this forum as it will never give the chance for the body to go after the fat stores.

protein power said minimum requirement for protein is 120 grams per day (thats for someone who doesnt workout)

ok, so thast what im getting now

for every protein meal i add fat to it such as mayo in moderation and butter sometimes.

in the end my ratio is 70% fat , 29% protein, 1% carbs.

protein power says carb must be kept at lowest(dont be shy to keep carbs at 0 if u want , eskimos live decades eating only protein/fat from fish and get 0 carbs as theres no vegetation, they also say that carb are a useless macronutrient, if body needs carbs itll make its own with fat/protein).

so i figured , im already getting like 10 grams of carbs per day through spinach salad/garlic/mayo/eggs. so im fine,

now atkin said the point of burning fat metabolism is the ratio of FAT to Carbs not Protein to Carbs. I dont know why that is.

nway the point is i eat now 70% fat (easily done with a couple table spoon of may/butter spread out through the day)

my carb is always kept ubber low sometimes 5-10 grams or more if i eat more spinach/kale/swiss chard.

protein i always eat at least my minimum 120 grams, not trying to eat more because i dont want it to become glucose.

and total caloric intake is around 1700-1900 depending if im putting right portion correctlly but im pretty sure i am. i do use fitday to measure stuff too.

and i realized that if theres ketones excreted in the urine it does not MEAN your burning your fat stores. it means that your exactly burning the dietary fat. Fat stores are not excreted in the urine, they vanish as they are burned. Only thing that gets excreted in the urine is the dietary fat that you eat where the ketones are made. So basically you could show NEGATIVE on ketostix since your burning your fat stores and not enough dietary fat to show in there in the urine.

so the darker the ketostix, the less fat stores u are burning. so i think people should not EXAGERATE on the fat to eat

remember its the FAT RATIO TO CARB NOT THE FAT QUANTITIY TO CARB.

meaning as long as your not in starvation mode , getting high ratio fat to carb, and getting your minimum protein, i think that the body will go right at those stores purely , not touching any ounce of muscle, and itll burn the dietary fat quickly then quickly attack the stores.

i also read that if one works out he must increase his protein intake or he will LOSE muscle tissue while working out. when i begin body building soon, i plan to add 1 tuna can before i go to workout then 1 tuna can when i get back. muscles are created when they are destroyed during the workout, protein repairs them.


what do you guys think about this fat ratio/carb ratio/protein ratio.

protein power/atkin philosophy.

also protein power life plan isnt even meant to get u into ketosis apparently. protein power book says lowest carb u do when u wanna lose weight is arouind 30 grams a day, thats good for getting low insulin but u wont get into ketosis. so i guess protein power life plan is a glucose energy based system at all times .

only time when atkin is in ketosis is when ur in induction, when u go over 20 grams of carbs i believe ur out of ketosis and on a low glucose level but still losing weight cuz of the low glucose level and easily tappign into those fat stores but on a glucose burning mode


am i right? anyone care to share info on these concepts.

[infuriator]

Originally posted by mikeroger
my story never changed,w hat are you talking about lisa N.

i told you i did many different diets during the summer and early sept before i officially began induction atkin style.

one thing i dont understand is that atkin said eat high protein, high fat, low carb. Now, the point is how much protein is required to retain lean muscle tissue and how much protein is consider high, over the requirement? or at the minimum protein requirement?

how much fat to eat , too much fat = not good according to some people on this forum as it will never give the chance for the body to go after the fat stores.

protein power said minimum requirement for protein is 120 grams per day (thats for someone who doesnt workout)

ok, so thast what im getting now

for every protein meal i add fat to it such as mayo in moderation and butter sometimes.

in the end my ratio is 70% fat , 29% protein, 1% carbs.

protein power says carb must be kept at lowest(dont be shy to keep carbs at 0 if u want , eskimos live decades eating only protein/fat from fish and get 0 carbs as theres no vegetation, they also say that carb are a useless macronutrient, if body needs carbs itll make its own with fat/protein).

so i figured , im already getting like 10 grams of carbs per day through spinach salad/garlic/mayo/eggs. so im fine,

now atkin said the point of burning fat metabolism is the ratio of FAT to Carbs not Protein to Carbs. I dont know why that is.

nway the point is i eat now 70% fat (easily done with a couple table spoon of may/butter spread out through the day)

my carb is always kept ubber low sometimes 5-10 grams or more if i eat more spinach/kale/swiss chard.

protein i always eat at least my minimum 120 grams, not trying to eat more because i dont want it to become glucose.

and total caloric intake is around 1700-1900 depending if im putting right portion correctlly but im pretty sure i am. i do use fitday to measure stuff too.

and i realized that if theres ketones excreted in the urine it does not MEAN your burning your fat stores. it means that your exactly burning the dietary fat. Fat stores are not excreted in the urine, they vanish as they are burned. Only thing that gets excreted in the urine is the dietary fat that you eat where the ketones are made. So basically you could show NEGATIVE on ketostix since your burning your fat stores and not enough dietary fat to show in there in the urine.

so the darker the ketostix, the less fat stores u are burning. so i think people should not EXAGERATE on the fat to eat

remember its the FAT RATIO TO CARB NOT THE FAT QUANTITIY TO CARB.

meaning as long as your not in starvation mode , getting high ratio fat to carb, and getting your minimum protein, i think that the body will go right at those stores purely , not touching any ounce of muscle, and itll burn the dietary fat quickly then quickly attack the stores.

i also read that if one works out he must increase his protein intake or he will LOSE muscle tissue while working out. when i begin body building soon, i plan to add 1 tuna can before i go to workout then 1 tuna can when i get back. muscles are created when they are destroyed during the workout, protein repairs them.


what do you guys think about this fat ratio/carb ratio/protein ratio.

protein power/atkin philosophy.

also protein power life plan isnt even meant to get u into ketosis apparently. protein power book says lowest carb u do when u wanna lose weight is arouind 30 grams a day, thats good for getting low insulin but u wont get into ketosis. so i guess protein power life plan is a glucose energy based system at all times .

only time when atkin is in ketosis is when ur in induction, when u go over 20 grams of carbs i believe ur out of ketosis and on a low glucose level but still losing weight cuz of the low glucose level and easily tappign into those fat stores but on a glucose burning mode


am i right? anyone care to share info on these concepts.
Do yourself a favor and get off this wacked out diet. If you workout bring your carb intake between 50-65%, your protein intake between12-20%, and the remained fat. You can do this or try and take in 5-8 grams/kg of bodyweight, no more than 2 grams per kilogram of bodyweight and the remained fat(This is more accurate). Ease into it a bit until you gradually get up to this point. As long as you eliminate the simple sugars from your diet you will have no problem at all.
Good luck.

[CindySue48]

Mike:
protein power said minimum requirement for protein is 120 grams per day (thats for someone who doesnt workout)

That is not what MY copy of protein power says!

The amount of protein you need is based on your lean body mass (in my case 141) times an "activity category number" which ranges from 0.5 to 0.9. In my case, the activity category number is .7, because I'm considered "active" (which means I exercise for more than 30 min 3-5 times/week. Since I do ardio for at least 30 min 4-5 tiems a week, PLUS resistance training for at least another 30-40 min 4-5 times per week.

If you multiple 141 times 0.7 you get 98.7. That is how many grams of protein I should get in a day, not 120!

according to your numbers, given in your profile, your Lean body mass is 147 (ht 6'2", weight 195 gives a BMI of 25%. 195-25% gives a LBM of 147), at the highest activity rate (X 0.9) , you would need 132.3. this would be a comptetive athlete in training, doing twice dayly heavy physical workouts for an hour or more.

For "very active" (min of 1 hr/day 5 or more times/week) you'd require 117.6 gms/day.

This is from pages 89-95 of the "Protein Power" book (1998 edition)

Also....your denial of saying you did the summer fast for a month? Do a search on your name! You not only posted it, you posted it twice , in 2 different threads....and it wasn't copied and pasted from one to the other! Go look!

Also...how's school? What's your major?

[mikeroger]

You have the OLD VERSION of protein power

i have the latest version book it says

according to my height 6'2 feet tall , and my weight 195~

i should eat 40 GRAMS OF PROTEIN PER MEAL
3 MEALS A DAY

DO THE MATH THATS 120 GRAMS DAILY for someone who is normal active. iF I DO REsistance training it recommends increasing it accordingly.

i tihnk im getting my minimum.

im healthy with that amount of protein. also ,im consuming 0 carbs so im fine.

im consuming 50% fat, 50% protein 0 carbs.
i get essential fatty acids omega3/omega6 and i get all protein 10 essential amino acids.

im nutritionally complete + for fiber i use metamucil sugar free.

[plum]

Mike
I read with interest your posts also on the PP board.

1% carb ? You need much more than that, Im not surprised you feel bad.I have more energy eating more vegetables. I am convinced you need more carb. Atkins advises finding your own carb level . It is all there in the book.

You may also be interested to read Barry Groves book... a UK writer with a history of investigative journalism.....he advises 60 gram intake. This may well suit you better.
www.second-opinions.co.uk/

EDIT to say Ive now read your other post..
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63961

please stop considering crank diets and look after yourself properly.
I say this from concern also, perhaps you could try some counselling via school ? not trying to be mean, it looks like you have a lot of concerns.

[agonycat]

Hey Mike....

One thing, just one.

Chose ONE SINGLE plan to be on and stick with that ONE. :)

I think you have read so much you are now confusing all of them together and you can't really do that until you understand more of what is going on.

So ..... Pick A plan and stick with it for at least THREE months.

Please. For your health and our sanity :D

It's really hard to help you when you are jumping back and forth and taking laxatives and all this other weird stuff you have been doing.

[Angeline]

Plum that second opinion link is fabulous. I've been reading away all morning.

Thanks for posting it

[mikeroger]

What's up with this? so what *** is the minimum protein intake for me :

Age 21
Weight 195lbs
Height 6'2

Protein power newest book says 120grams, old book some people said its 75 grams. now you say its 60 grrams.

Jeez which is it?????

[Lisa N]

Mike...

read the post and the link more carefully....she's talking about grams of carbs here, not grams of protein. And I agree with the rest....instead of trying to mix and match plans, PICK ONE and stick with it for a minimum of 3 months before you decide to make any changes whatsoever to the plan as it is written in the book.

[mikeroger]

yes but what is the minimum protein intake

[agonycat]

Originally posted by mikeroger
yes but what is the minimum protein intake

Mike, pay close attention....


On Atkin's is doesn't matter on minimum protein intake.


Now are you following Atkin's or Protein Power? If you are following Protein Power then please go over to that forum and post your question pretty please ;)

[mikeroger]

can you please tell me what my minimum protein intake is

protein power said 120grams
some others say its 1 gram per pouind
other say 0.6 per lean body mass or per body weight

god sake which is it

im 21 , 6'2 , weight 195lbs , i dont do exercise.

so whast my minimum protein intake
75grams or 120grams

[AmberinIN]

I've just skimmed through most of this post, so sorry if I get something wrong...

If you are going to go on Atkins, you don't count protein grams, you just eat until you are full. Your carbs should be AT 20 grams/day, not under. Fat will make up the rest.

If you are going to follow PPLP, they have a calculator in the book that shows what you will need protein wise. I'm not sure on the fat and carb ratios, but I know it allows more and different kinds, so you'd have to read it to get that. The plans each have different amounts because they are different plans. You have to pick a plan and use THEIR protein amount.

You said you want to start bodybuilding, I have a good idea....Go to the general exercise or CKD forum and ask TrainerDan or Zeus what you should do. They are well established Bodybuilders and the carb count is a tad different. I weightlift and go up to 40 g of carb sometimes for a day for a better lifting session. Also, I think that 1 oz. of meat = 25-28 g protein, just for your reference. I really think you would do well asking the aforementioned people your questions.

Lastly, I don't exactly understand what you ate or when you ate it, but sometimes it takes up to 3-4 months for your body to get itself on an even keel again. Also, the with the amount of weight that you lost, your body might be taking a breather.

Hope this helps! :wave: Amber

[GinaDee]

I usually have a lot to say, but after reading all this, I am just about speechless.

Mike, maybe you need to consider liposuction. It is much faster than following an eating plan.

GinaDee

[mnokat]

I just replied to one of your other threads, and now I totally wish I didn't!

Mike, I think you should try the Zone diet... something very balanced, which you don't seem to have ever had. You mentioned somewhere in this thread that you used to eat one big meal a day and then the rest of the day was junk... and now you're doing crazy things to your body.

Find a healthy way of eating. Veggies, fruits, protein carbs. balance them all out. Eat enough that you are satisfied. Stop ruining your body and metabolism by torturing yourself!

Also, telling the truth and sticking to it on this site helps... you're here to help yourself. Changing your story every other second isn't helping anyone... especially yourself, and it just frustrates the rest of us.

Go to a nutritionist, check out the Zone diet, or something balanced that would be good for a 21 year old male that only has a few lbs to lose.

Also... 12 hrs of sleep a night (if that is really what you are getting) is excessive. I think you should try 8-9 hrs a night for a month and see how your energy feels then. Too much sleep can make you more tired.

[DDMariana]

Lordy...I'm laughing too hard to write...

This guy can NOT be for real!! Mike, please post a picture...
:doah:

God bless all you patient souls trying to get through to him...
:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

you've got more chutzpah than me!


:wave:

[gapgirl420]

I don't think he wants any help , keeps disputing everything
y'all are trying to tell him...

GAP

[stevie2600]

Originally posted by GinaDee
I usually have a lot to say, but after reading all this, I am just about speechless.

Mike, maybe you need to consider liposuction. It is much faster than following an eating plan.

GinaDee

Hahaha... Ah... Good times.

[puma_power]

Hey everyone,
I am not bothering myself with this Mike guy, because he has so many people trying to give him good advice and he clearly just doesn't want to listen and is wasting all of our time.
Rather, I wanted to call attention to something in one of the links (the "second opinion" one) posted by Plum. Probably this is not the part of the website any of you would be looking at, but I just wanted to call your attention to the fact that Dr. Barry Groves, though he may be correct in some things, has some serious misinformation he is dispensing. I am including below the e-mail that I sent to him:

Dear Doctor Groves,
I am deeply disturbed about some of the misinformation on Type 1 diabetes you have posted on your website.
I have Type 1 diabetes, and I have done extensive research on it--both in the medical literature and through self-observation.
I agree with you that a very low-carbohydrate diet is best for ALL types of diabetics, but your contention that Type 1 diabetes is caused by eating too many carbs is simply not true. It is an autoimmune disease, this is a basic, basic fact that you fail to mention. In addition, it is widely recognized by all medical communities around the world that the auto-immune response is activated by a virus. This has nothing to do with diet. Epidemiological studies in some European countries have shown the onset of IDDM in young adults to occur seasonally (always in the springtime)--further evidence that it has nothing to do with diet.
As for your contention that even Type 1 Diabetics can survive without insulin--that is ridiculous! That is the definition of Type 1 diabetes. At the time insulin was discovered and produced for injection, the current popular treatment for a Type 1 Diabetic was starvation. These poor patients were allowed to eat only a couple of times a week--and mostly animal fat. Leaving aside the obvious fact that this is inhumane treatment, this did not serve to eliminate the symptoms of hyperglycemia, and the patients invariably died.
I know that, for myself, I can fast and take no insulin, and my blood glucose will go up and stay up. Again, that is the very definition of IDDM.
As to the Polish study you cite, you give NO specifics as to number of patients involved, their condition prior to the study, amount of time involved in the study, exact blood glucose levels or amounts/types of foods eaten (other than "animal fat"). This does not sound like a legitimate scientific study.
Please do not use unsound science and blatant misinformation to promote a lifestyle that I and many others already believe is beneficial. You will simply discourage people from believing the valid parts of what you say. I suggest that you read Dr. Bernsteins "Diabetes Solution"--and refer all Type 1 Diabetics to that, rather than provide information yourself for this area in which you are clearly unqualified and ignorant.
I apologize for the harsh nature of this e-mail, but I am furious about the harm you may be unwittingly causing to many people who are trying to help themselves.
Please be more careful and responsible with dispensing medical information.

Sincerely,
Rachel Postman

[puma_power]

Hey guys, I'd like to know what you think...am I the only one who feels he is being totally unclear, to the point of misinformation?

From: "Rachel Postman" <RPostman~dana.org>
To: "Barry Groves" <barry~second-opinions.co.uk>
Date: 10/16/2002 04:05 PM
Subject: Re: misinformation on your website

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Dr. Groves,
I thank you for your very speedy response. But please do not condescend to me by implying that I do not read carefully. We are both, essentially, on the same side of the carb vs. fat dietary debate, so it would be great to update your diabetes page--even though you apparently did not intend to give misinformation, if I, an educated reader, got the wrong impression, surely you can imagine that others would as well.
Now, in direct response to your points:

> I suggest that you read my diabetes page again. Nowhere on it do I say
> that
> Type-1 diabetes is caused by a person eating too much carb.
I QUOTE FROM YOUR WEBSITE (All-caps my own for emphasis):

"Diabetes mellitus, OF BOTH TYPES, is a disease of incorrect nutrition -- too much carbohydrate, and not enough fat.

THE DISEASE develops as a result of a high intake of carbohydrates - the 'healthy' diet."

*If, by "The Disease," you don't mean Diabetes in all of it's forms, you need to specify.

> carrying mother who eats too much carb can pass on insulin antibodies
> to her
> foetus. This is well known.
>
> You are right that a virus may damage the pancreas sufficiently to stop
> the
> beta cells secreting insulin. So may a bullet, or cancer, or any other
> trauma.

I will not address either of these comments since they are irrelevant to what I was saying and are not in dispute.

>I also did not say that a Type-1 diabetic can survive without insulin.
> I
> said that a Type-1 diabetic can survive without injecting insulin if
> they
> have some insulin production and it is relieved of the job of taking
> excess
> glucose out of the blood.

A SEMANTIC SOPHISM, since you say that VIRTUALLY ALL TYPE 1 DIABETICS DO HAVE SOME INSULIN PRODUCTION:

"But the human body rarely produces no insulin at all. Even in type 1 diabetics, usually FIVE TO FIFTEEN PERCENT of the pancreas' beta cells survive to produce insulin."

Where do you get this number? Also, you do not address the fact that your Polish study reference is clearly dubious.

> And I have read Dr Bernstein's work.

Yet you believe that:

"The ONLY strategy that offers the prospect of CURE for diabetes is the one offered in Eat Fat, Get Thin! here for weight loss."
[All-caps my own]

Is this view as objective and scientific as the Polish study?
I have a vast respect for Dr. Bernstein--he does not theorize and preach from afar, rather, he has been literally fighting this disease in a pioneering manner for many, many years. I consider him far more qualified than anyone, M.D. or not, who has not had personal experience with diabetes.
Also, you contradict yourself, as here you say that your diet offers a CURE for diabetes, where elsewhere you say (correctly) that, currently, there is no cure, only management. This is sloppy phrasing, at best--probably the primary source of this misunderstanding in the first place.
There is enough misconception and misinformation being disseminated about this disease by the Government agencies, as you yourself point out--please don't contribute to it!

Thank you,
RACHEL (not Rachael) Postman



-----Original Message-----
From: "Barry Groves" <barry~second-opinions.co.uk>
To: "Rachel Postman" <RPostman~dana.org>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 20:29:59 +0100
Subject: Re: misinformation on your website

> Dear Rachael
>
> I suggest that you read my diabetes page again. Nowhere on it do I say
> that
> Type-1 diabetes is caused by a person eating too much carb. I do say
> that a
> carrying mother who eats too much carb can pass on insulin antibodies
> to her
> foetus. This is well known.
>
> You are right that a virus may damage the pancreas sufficiently to stop
> the
> beta cells secreting insulin. So may a bullet, or cancer, or any other
> trauma.
>
> I also did not say that a Type-1 diabetic can survive without insulin.
> I
> said that a Type-1 diabetic can survive without injecting insulin if
> they
> have some insulin production and it is relieved of the job of taking
> excess
> glucose out of the blood.
>
> And I have read Dr Bernstein's work.
>
> I am sorry that you are furious. Perhaps if you read the page again,
> and
> take time to read it fully, you will stop being so.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Barry Groves, PhD
> Author of "Eat Fat, Get Thin!"
> http://www.second-opinions.co.uk
>

[puma_power]

Dear Dr. Groves,
Thanks again for your quick response. I appreciate your receptive
attitude and your willingness to clarify. As I suspected, we really do agree on alot of things--and it is especially important that those of us in the minority of public and medical opinion be extra-careful about clarity and accuracy.
Best of luck with your work, and I apologize for coming on so strongly. My diabetes is still a very sensitive topic for me.
Thank you for understanding,
Sincerely,
Rachel Postman

-----Original Message-----
From: "Barry Groves" <barry~second-opinions.co.uk>
To: "Rachel Postman" <RPostman~dana.org>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:45:46 +0100
Subject: Re: misinformation on your website

> My apologies Rachel, not least for misspelling your name.
>
> If, as you say, you didn't understand what I was trying to say, then
> you are
> right that a person less knowledgeable might have more difficulty. One
> of
> the problems of writing about what one knows, is that it is sometimes
> difficult to put it over in terms that someone who does not know the
> subject
> will understand.
>
> I will rewrite this page to clarify things as soon as I get time.
>
> In the meantime, let me pick up a couple of points and attempt to
> clarify
> them now.
>
> Firstly, anything that stops the function of the beta cells in the
> pancreas
> is a cause of Type-1 diabetes. But a major cause today is a mother's
> 'healthy' diet while she is pregnant. If her child were to eat the sort
> of
> diet we both subscribe to from the start, that child might never
> develop the
> symptoms of Type-1 diabetes. That is why I maintain that both types of
> the
> disease are caused by diet.
>
> You say that Type-1 is an autoimmune disease. I don't dispute this as a
> cause. But even so, this does not destroy all beta cells immediately,
> but
> gradually. By the time the disease becomes apparent, there is usually
> still
> up to 15% of capacity remaining. If the diet is changed immediately the
> diagnosis is made, the destruction of that remaining capacity can be
> halted
> and, so long as the patient remains on a low-carb, low-protein,
> high-fat
> diet, there will be no symptoms of the disease and no need to use
> insulin in
> almost all cases. It depends on the amount of healthy cells that are
> left.
> Perhaps I should not use the word 'cure' as there is no way to replace
> the
> missing cell function. Nevertheless, I look on taking drugs to keep the
> symptoms in check as 'managing' the disease, and not having any
> symptoms and
> not having to use any artificial aids or drugs as a 'cure' as, to all
> intents, that person can live a completely normal and healthy life.
>
> The diet I espouse for the overweight, for Type-2 diabetics and for the
> healthy is 10-15% carb, 20-25% protein and 60-70% fat, by calories. In
> the
> case of Type-1 diabetes I cannot prescribe as the amounts of each will
> depend on the individual's residual insulin.
>
> I hope that goes some way to clarify my position.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Barry Groves, PhD
> Author of "Eat Fat, Get Thin!"
> http://www.second-opinions.co.uk

[quietone]

Just a quick note on experience and some of your symptoms.

I never used psyllium when low carbing and never had a problem with constipation. I only have trouble when I start eating all the carbs.

Second, based on what you are saying, depending on when you symptoms started, has it ever occurred to you that you may have seasonal affective disorder and it is not necessarily the low carb.

Third, man, it sounds like you are all over the place. Like you are not really ready to do Atkins or anything else and just deparately grasping at anything you can.

Tell your med friend this: more people will die from complications this year from obesity than from being in ketosis from low carbing. I am really saddened to hear that they are still teaching that hog-wash at the schools that there is only one diet for everyone. There are so many proven anomalys to the pyramid...so many society's that do not follow and are quite healthy.

[Munia68]

Oh Mike, you are so like my little son! My son is hopping and jumping, never resting -- continuously changing his mind. Gives judgement very easily and changes it the next moment. He must have results NOW, NOW or it is too late!! Impatient little chap! :)

Take a deep, deep breath and calm down! :thup:

All the best,

[carboman]

Hey Mike,
Why are you only eating around 2000 calories? You should add a couple of more meals/snacks. Try to get up to 3000 calories. I bet you will lose just as much weight and feel better.

[sunkist]

i hate to say this and I don't want to sound mean - but I get the distinct impression that Mike Rogers may be suffering from some sort of schizophrenic mental disorder or maybe a bi-polar disorder. His thinking is just way too scattered and that, added to his high state of emotionality, seems to point to an imbalance of some sort.

I'm sure he will be the first to deny this but that would be expected of course. It does no good to debate with a mind that is so possibly fragmented