Water not necessary?

[Barry B.]

On NPR today, a professor was debunking the idea of needing 8
glasses of water a day, and also the idea that
caffeine-drinking doesn't count. Comments?

[Christina]

"Barry B." <bblauer@ford.com> wrote in message
news:3D528008.B2E202BC@ford.com...
> On NPR today, a professor was debunking the idea of needing
> 8 glasses of water a day, and also the idea that
> caffeine-drinking doesn't count. Comments?

I've wondered where the advice to get 8 glasses a day came
from, and I've searched Medline a couple times. I have never
found any studies whatsoever (but if anyone knows of some I'd
like to read them), so my best guess is that someone made it
up and everyone else kept repeating it without checking
whether it was true. It doesn't make too much sense if you
think about it - everyone, regardless of size, climate,
exercise, and food intake needs this precise amount of water
in order to be hydrated? A sedentary person in a climate
controlled office needs the same amount of fluid as a person
who does landscaping 8 hrs a day in 100 degree heat? I need
some convincing if anyone wants to argue that point.

Caffeine (on it's own) is a diuretic, but we drink it in
beverages that are mainly water. Even in strong beverages like
coffee, you lose less water than you ingest so they are
hydrating. They are less hydrating than plain water, but they
don't dehydrate you as some people claim.

[Isiafs5]

>On NPR today, a professor was debunking the idea of needing 8
>glasses of water a day, and also the idea that
>caffeine-drinking doesn't count. Comments?

To my knowledge:

- some intelligent people started looking into the source of
the 8 glasses and could not find one, so the entire idea is
being investigated.

- at one time there were ads on tv that we were supposed to
drink so many glasses of milk per day (heart attack
anyone?). The four foods groups recommended by the
government were either done or strongly influenced by the
National Dairy Council.

Furthermore, consider that the current USA food pyramid is
somewhat like the Meditteranean Diet (Crete). What's the
difference? In the USA, nutrition guidelines are formed by
committees that include the food producers. Thus, in my
opinion, anyone representing the meat industry has a strong
conflict of interests.

Sling Skate

Buy ALTOIDS!!! Thanks for the support UK.

[Michael Ro]

On Thu, 08 Aug 2002 10:28:24 -0400, "Barry B."
<bblauer@ford.com> wrote:

|On NPR today, a professor was debunking the idea of needing 8
glasses of |water a day, and also the idea that
caffeine-drinking doesn't count. |Comments?

Forget the 8 glasses per day mythology. Caffeine is
individually dependent.

[Bruce]

In misc.fitness.aerobic "Barry B." <bblauer@ford.com> wrote:

>On NPR today, a professor was debunking the idea of needing 8
>glasses of water a day, and also the idea that
>caffeine-drinking doesn't count. Comments?

A comment on the caffeine. Those of us in the South have known
for a century that iced tea is an awesome hydrator. I submit
that you could live on it and never drink plain water. I know
I have for months at a time.

[Sam]

I need to search the NPR for this.

Moderate caffeine use, say 2 sodas or regular coffee, is not
going to have a big impact on hydration status. This was
reported and discussed at American Dietetics Association
meeting a few years back.

The following comes from Melvin Williams' book "Nutrition for
Fitness and Sport":

Avg water loss for a 60kg female (daily):

Urine 1100ml Fecal 100 ml Expired Air 200 ml Insensible
perspiration 600ml

Total 2000ml or 2 liters or about 4 cups (2L is about 2 quarts
and 2 cups to a quart).

Of course this assumes no activity or normal activity but
not training.

You get water from food (~700ml depending on the diet) and
also from metabolic processes (~300 ml).

"Barry B." <bblauer@ford.com> wrote in message
news:3D528008.B2E202BC@ford.com...
> On NPR today, a professor was debunking the idea of needing
> 8 glasses of water a day, and also the idea that
> caffeine-drinking doesn't count. Comments?

[David Scar]

"Barry B." <bblauer@ford.com> wrote in
news:3D528008.B2E202BC@ford.com :

> On NPR today, a professor was debunking the idea of needing
> 8 glasses of water a day, and also the idea that
> caffeine-drinking doesn't count. Comments?

That whole 8 glasses thing is an old wive's tale.

http://www.snopes.com/toxins/water.htm

--
David Scarlett

Remove "eminemsucks" to reply via email.

[Mike]

"Barry B." <bblauer@ford.com> wrote in message
news:3D528008.B2E202BC@ford.com...
> On NPR today, a professor was debunking the idea of needing
> 8 glasses of water a day, and also the idea that
> caffeine-drinking doesn't count. Comments?

I'm no health expert, but it seems to me we're made mostly of
water, so it stands to reason that consuming water is good for
you. Whether 8 glasses, liters, or what have you, is better or
worse for you is obviously up for debate. I would say whatever
you feel comfortable with works best for you. I tend to play
toward the middle on diet. All things in moderation. That's
never failed me.

[C.P]

if your active your supposed to drink 4 litres per day

is what i've heard

"Christina" <notme@austin.rr.nospam> wrote in message
news:hLw49.202235$88.4596517@twister.austin.rr.com...
> "Barry B." <bblauer@ford.com> wrote in message
> news:3D528008.B2E202BC@ford.com...
> > On NPR today, a professor was debunking the idea of
> > needing 8 glasses of water a day, and also the idea that
> > caffeine-drinking doesn't count. Comments?
>
> I've wondered where the advice to get 8 glasses a day came
> from, and I've searched Medline a couple times. I have never
> found any studies
whatsoever
> (but if anyone knows of some I'd like to read them), so my
> best guess is that someone made it up and everyone else kept
> repeating it without
checking
> whether it was true. It doesn't make too much sense if you
> think about
it -
> everyone, regardless of size, climate, exercise, and food
> intake needs
this
> precise amount of water in order to be hydrated? A sedentary
> person in a climate controlled office needs the same amount
> of fluid as a person who does landscaping 8 hrs a day in 100
> degree heat? I need some convincing
if
> anyone wants to argue that point.
>
> Caffeine (on it's own) is a diuretic, but we drink it in
> beverages that
are
> mainly water. Even in strong beverages like coffee, you lose
> less water than you ingest so they are hydrating. They are
> less hydrating than plain water, but they don't dehydrate
> you as some people claim.

[Barry B.]

Christina wrote:
>
> "Barry B." <bblauer@ford.com> wrote in message
> news:3D528008.B2E202BC@ford.com...
> > On NPR today, a professor was debunking the idea of
> > needing 8 glasses of water a day, and also the idea that
> > caffeine-drinking doesn't count. Comments?
>
> I've wondered where the advice to get 8 glasses a day came
> from, and I've searched Medline a couple times. I have
> never found any studies whatsoever (but if anyone knows of
> some I'd like to read them), so my best guess is that
> someone made it up and everyone else kept repeating it
> without checking whether it was true. It doesn't make too
> much sense if you think about it - everyone, regardless of
> size, climate, exercise, and food intake needs this precise
> amount of water in order to be hydrated? A sedentary person
> in a climate controlled office needs the same amount of
> fluid as a person who does landscaping 8 hrs a day in 100
> degree heat? I need some convincing if anyone wants to
> argue that point.
>
> Caffeine (on it's own) is a diuretic, but we drink it in
> beverages that are mainly water. Even in strong beverages
> like coffee, you lose less water than you ingest so they are
> hydrating. They are less hydrating than plain water, but
> they don't dehydrate you as some people claim.

you can go to npr.org, news, and see/hear the story. The prof
thinks the idea of 8 glasses start when it was though 1
ml/gram/some time was necessary...

[Stephen Di]

In article <uob5lugpvguvcd6a6pgkvtfm7o39hrv901@4ax.com>,
Michael Roose <trainerofathletes@email.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 08 Aug 2002 10:28:24 -0400, "Barry B."
> <bblauer@ford.com> wrote:
>
> |On NPR today, a professor was debunking the idea of needing
> 8 glasses of |water a day, and also the idea that
> caffeine-drinking doesn't count. |Comments?
>
> Forget the 8 glasses per day mythology.

Don't forget it without something more refined with which to
replace it. It is surely preferable to drink a minimum of 8
cups than to rely entirely on thirst as a guide.

srd

[Sam]

"Isiafs5" <isiafs5@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020808133650.00613.00002290@mb-df.aol.com...
> >
> >On NPR today, a professor was debunking the idea of needing
> >8 glasses of water a day, and also the idea that
> >caffeine-drinking doesn't count. Comments?
>
> To my knowledge:
>
> - some intelligent people started looking into the source
> of the 8
glasses and
> could not find one, so the entire idea is being
> investigated.
>
> - at one time there were ads on tv that we were supposed to
> drink so many glasses of milk per day (heart attack
> anyone?). The four foods groups recommended by the
> government were either done or strongly influenced by
the
> National Dairy Council.
>
> Furthermore, consider that the current USA food pyramid is
> somewhat like
the
> Meditteranean Diet (Crete). What's the difference? In the
> USA, nutrition guidelines are formed by committees that
> include the food producers.
Thus, in
> my opinion, anyone representing the meat industry has a
> strong conflict of interests.
>
>

And what is your problem with a Mediterrean diet?

> Sling Skate
>
> Buy ALTOIDS!!! Thanks for the support UK.
>
>

[Atec77]

your lost scarlet ?.

David Scarlett wrote:
>
> "Barry B." <bblauer@ford.com> wrote in
> news:3D528008.B2E202BC@ford.com :
>
> > On NPR today, a professor was debunking the idea of
> > needing 8 glasses of water a day, and also the idea that
> > caffeine-drinking doesn't count. Comments?
>
> That whole 8 glasses thing is an old wive's tale.
>
> http://www.snopes.com/toxins/water.htm
>
> --
> David Scarlett
>
> Remove "eminemsucks" to reply via email.

[Barry B.]

David Scarlett wrote:
>
> "Barry B." <bblauer@ford.com> wrote in
> news:3D528008.B2E202BC@ford.com :
>
> > On NPR today, a professor was debunking the idea of
> > needing 8 glasses of water a day, and also the idea that
> > caffeine-drinking doesn't count. Comments?
>
> That whole 8 glasses thing is an old wive's tale.
>
> http://www.snopes.com/toxins/water.htm
>
> --
> David Scarlett
>
> Remove "eminemsucks" to reply via email.

Thanks! Now, one more - a teacher told us board members that
water is necessary for the brain, and congratulated the few
who said they drink 8 glasses a day. Same thing?

[Stephen Di]

In article <3d53b438$0$31144$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>,
David Scarlett <dscarlett@eminemsucks.optushome.com.au> wrote:

> "Barry B." <bblauer@ford.com> wrote in
> news:3D528008.B2E202BC@ford.com :
>
> > On NPR today, a professor was debunking the idea of
> > needing 8 glasses of water a day, and also the idea that
> > caffeine-drinking doesn't count. Comments?
>
> That whole 8 glasses thing is an old wive's tale.
>
> http://www.snopes.com/toxins/water.htm

It is hard to drink 8 glasses; 8 glasses is more than most
people need; it isn't harmful to drink that much.

So, the advice to drink 8 glasses is tantamount to the advice
to drink a _lot_ of water.

Unless the negative correlation between the amount of water
drunk and kidney issues has been disproven, the advice is not
really all that bad.

Stephen Diamond

[Van Bagnol]

> "Barry B." <bblauer@ford.com> wrote in message
> news:3D528008.B2E202BC@ford.com...
> > On NPR today, a professor was debunking the idea of
> > needing 8 glasses of water a day, and also the idea that
> > caffeine-drinking doesn't count. Comments?

In article <aiutnb$qh2$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>, "Sam"
<marathonman@mindspring.com> wrote:

> The following comes from Melvin Williams' book "Nutrition
> for Fitness and Sport":
>
> Avg water loss for a 60kg female (daily): Urine 1100
> ml Fecal 100 ml Expired Air 200 ml Insensible
> perspiration 600 ml
>
> Total 2000 ml or 2 liters or about 4 cups (2L is about 2
> quarts and 2 cups to a quart).

Actually there are _four_ cups to a quart, so 2 L is
about _8_ cups.

> Of course this assumes no activity or normal activity but
> not training.

Indeed. I read that in the right conditions high-intensity
exercise can produce up to 3 litres of perspiration per hour.
I myself can drain a 3-litre Camelbak of water in a two-hour
bike ride.

Granted, water absorption rate is only about 1 l/hr, but that
simply means that fluid balance isn't fully restored until
some time after the ride ends.

> You get water from food (~700ml depending on the diet) and
> also from metabolic processes (~300 ml).

...leaving about 1000 ml (~4 glasses) from beverages to
make up the difference. Sounds reasonable. So it's not 8
glasses of _drinking water_ a day, but 8 cups of fluid
_from various sources_.

And since urine output is the other variable to the hydration
equation, people who don't drink enough fluids will simply pee
less, with a higher than normal urine concentration. A
reasonable rule of thumb is to drink enough so that your urine
is a light straw color by the end of the day.

Van

--
Van Bagnol / v a n at wco dot com / c r l at bagnol dot com
...enjoys - Theatre / Windsurfing / Skydiving / Mountain
Biking ...feels - "Parang lumalakad ako sa loob ng paniginip"
...thinks - "An Error is Not a Mistake ... Unless You Refuse
to Correct It"

[Stephen Di]

In article <3D529AA5.CA227A99@ford.com>, "Barry B."
<bblauer@ford.com> wrote:

> Christina wrote:
> >
> > "Barry B." <bblauer@ford.com> wrote in message
> > news:3D528008.B2E202BC@ford.com...
> > > On NPR today, a professor was debunking the idea of
> > > needing 8 glasses of water a day, and also the idea that
> > > caffeine-drinking doesn't count. Comments?
> >
> > I've wondered where the advice to get 8 glasses a day came
> > from, and I've searched Medline a couple times. I have
> > never found any studies whatsoever (but if anyone knows of
> > some I'd like to read them), so my best guess is that
> > someone made it up and everyone else kept repeating it
> > without checking whether it was true. It doesn't make too
> > much sense if you think about it - everyone, regardless of
> > size, climate, exercise, and food intake needs this
> > precise amount of water in order to be hydrated? A
> > sedentary person in a climate controlled office needs the
> > same amount of fluid as a person who does landscaping 8
> > hrs a day in 100 degree heat? I need some convincing if
> > anyone wants to argue that point.
> >
> > Caffeine (on it's own) is a diuretic, but we drink it in
> > beverages that are mainly water. Even in strong beverages
> > like coffee, you lose less water than you ingest so they
> > are hydrating. They are less hydrating than plain water,
> > but they don't dehydrate you as some people claim.
>
> you can go to npr.org, news, and see/hear the story. The
> prof thinks the idea of 8 glasses start when it was though 1
> ml/gram/some time was necessary...

It seems you can't download the story on a Mac.

It isn't clear from the posts what was challenged: the
importance of drinking adequate fluids, or the specific
quantity, 8 cups, which may more than is necessary for some
and too little for others.

It seems clear that thirst is not an adequate guide to
hydration. So some kind of schedule is beneficial.

srd

[David Scar]

"atec77(nospam)" <"atec77(nospam)"@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:3D53B767.465523EB@hotmail.com :

> your lost scarlet ?.

No.... are you? ;-)

--
David Scarlett

Remove "eminemsucks" to reply via email.

[Christina]

"Stephen Diamond" <stephend15@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:stephend15-94869A.14363908082002@news.mindspring.com...
> It seems you can't download the story on a Mac.
>
> It isn't clear from the posts what was challenged: the
> importance of drinking adequate fluids, or the specific
> quantity, 8 cups, which may more than is necessary for some
> and too little for others.

The story challanged the specific quantity. The guy said he
looked over tons of research and could find no scientific
basis for advocating 8 cups a day.

> It seems clear that thirst is not an adequate guide to
> hydration. So some kind of schedule is beneficial.
>
> srd

[Atec77]

well.maybe a little :P

David Scarlett wrote:
>
> "atec77(nospam)" <"atec77(nospam)"@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:3D53B767.465523EB@hotmail.com :
>
> > your lost scarlet ?.
>
> No.... are you? ;-)
>
> --
> David Scarlett
>
> Remove "eminemsucks" to reply via email.