too little carbohydrate?

[uanoel]

Hi everyone:


I am doing really well with my food on atkins. My question is there a point when you have too few carbs? I am currently eating probably no more than ten a day. What should the correct ratio of fat to protein be? And lastly do you think that this accounts for my slow weight loss (4 lbs) last week considering I started off at 262?

It is so difficult to look at only ME and not everyone else. The competetive nature of myself that I am trying to temper.

I am sure that I would do much better with exercise --so far this week I have only excersized once. There is still a lot of the week left so there is time for that.

Lastly I would love a workout partner--someone to keep my honest. I need a little policeing until it becomes a habit in my life.

Thanks for listening--I know that I get longwinded sometimes--

Lee

[agonycat]

Originally posted by uanoel
Hi everyone:


I am doing really well with my food on atkins. My question is there a point when you have too few carbs? I am currently eating probably no more than ten a day. What should the correct ratio of fat to protein be?

Normal ratio should be about:

65-70 percent fat
25-30 percent protein
5 percent carbs.

Some people find that if they stay around 20 carbs a day they tend to lose weight better, while others find they don't lose unless they drop down to 10 or less.

Only you can be the judge of what side you are on. Try upping your carb intake in the way of fresh veggies to 20 a day and see if that speeds up your weight loss.

[Shark01]

I don't actively count carbs, one of the great things about this diet. I just avoid the foods loaded with them. I will eat things other people are horrified about such as breaded chicken wings, diet cokes, and chicken skin. Remember, this isn't a contest but a slow, leisurely journey. You only lose 1/2 lb per week, so what :rolleyes: Don't make it into a competative sport, those people flame out because they can't enjoy a high quality of life eating that way :(

[uanoel]

Thanks for the proportion information. Now my next question is when I convert each component fat/protein/carb to calories what are the multipliers? e.g. 1g protein = ? calories etc.

Can you tell that I'm anal? LOL I know that I am crazy with the fact that I want to get it right and get some weight off. Still the same four pounds off. I have actually done better with other diets, but this is the first time that I haven't had the crazy binges and cravings. My new found sanity on that front leads me to believe that the lo-carb program is the one for me. I just want to get over this 4 lb thing. I just may have to write patience on the blackboard a hundred and twelve times (once for each pound I have to lose).

Thanks everyone--time to walk up my girls for breakfast

Lee

[Shark01]

1g protein = 4 cal
1g carb = 4 cal
1g fat = 9 cal

Please don't calculate this stuff out :( ......please Ma'am.....just step away from the calculator........slowly.........that's it you can do it :cool:

I calculated that crap all my life. You know where it got me? In size 6x shirts and 60 waist pants :mad: Now that I don't pay attention to it and follow a few simple rules........65 lbs off and counting :spin:

[mdxgirl37]

LOL! I agree with Shark. trying to calculate was driving me nuts!!! it is too much like calculating low fat versus blah blah blah..... i try to keep my carbs really low (less than 10 daily) because i am over 300 pounds. this time around i am going to stick really close to atkins induction for a bit longer also.

i really believe, for me, it is all about modifying the best of the LC programs to fit my lifestyle and seeing what works and doesn't til i get it right! :roll:

[Sherry B]

Lee I found that you can get too few calories. With this way of eating you may sometimes find after awhile that you just aren't as hungry.

For me I lost 50 pounds really quickly and then struggled for the next two years to stay on the diet and lose more. My weight went up and down as I would stick to the diet (but not lose) get discouraged and go off and then get back on.

I, of course, blamed myself for not having the discipline to stick to the diet, but one day I woke up and realized that I had been sticking to it, but had just reached a "set point" that I couldn't get below.

At that point I counted up my calories for a few days and realized I was only eating between 1300 and 1700 calories a day, when I increased them I started losing again, and when I couldn't keep them elevated I started gaining again.

The formula I found for weight loss is that you should eat about 12 calories per pound of current body weight. For me that meant I should be eating about 2700 calories a day. This is for losses. for maintenance it was more like 15 to 16 calories per pound. The site I found this info on also said that if you are eating more than a 1000 calories LESS than maintenance level you are putting yourself in starvation mode. At my max I was eating 1000 calories less than my losing level. No wonder I was stalled.

I just don't eat that much and even knowing this information it is hard to eat enough calories, so I found another way of reving up my metabolism. I began to lift weights.

[mdxgirl37]

sherry b, this is really good info to know. when i first did the program close to a year ago i lost around 20 pounds really quick and then stalled. I now know one reason i didn't stick with it was because i got discouraged (still looking for that NOW program) but I also believe I wasn't eating enough calories. I have never been a person who eats large quantities of food so could never understand why when my thin friends ate 3 x what i did and they stayed thin! They were no more active than i was either!

I have restarted atkins (modified) and am going to be really careful when I use fitday to make sure my carbs are down AND that i am getting around 3000 calories a day.

Question: when you know you need more calories do you try to get them from protein or fat? I have heard more people lean toward fat but wonder where i can get more fat without having some protein to cook with the fat or to put the fat on.....does this make sense :roll:

[Sherry B]

One thing I do is to buy cream and pour a little in a glass and add some splenda sweetened syrup to it. I buy the Torani syrups in the caramel and the English toffee flavors.

A little of that in a little cream makes you think you are getting a sweet treat. Since fat contains about 9 calories per gram you can increase your calories a little more by increasing fat than you can by increasing protein.

Also for me at least I have a saturation point with protein. I can only STAND to eat so much of it. So increasing fat is a little easier.

Another thing I do is to make a spinach salad with bacon vinegrette dressing. Buy the baby spinach leaves, fry up some bacon and save about 2 tablespoons of the bacon grease. Add some balsamic vinegar to the pan with the hot bacon grease, and stir until warm. (put tomatoes on the salad and if you like boiled eggs). Pour the hot dressing over the salad and then crumble up the bacon pieces over the salad.

Yummy and healthy.

To be very honest I still have a hard time eating enough calories and staying on low carb. (No problem if I start cheating on the diet). My latest solution is to force myself to eat something for breakfast, to try and remember to eat every three hours or so (small amounts) and to excercise a lot.

There are two ways of reving up your metabolism one is to eat enough and often enough, the other is to start building muscle. I had a really hard time sticking to the eat enough calories thing, so I have chosen to lift weights and rev myself up that way. (this makes me hungrier so it also makes it easier to eat).

One thing I have noticed that really drives me crazy. I will be going along doing induction level eating, just fine but not losing. I get a little nuts and go off and cheat with something terrible for me (candy) and the next day I will have lost a couple of pounds. It is like my body is just waiting to let go of the pounds, but won't do it until I blow my diet. I try not to do this because when I do I can't always get back on track really fast (especially because I was REWARDED for being bad). The rewards go away if I cheat for too long however so I try not to do it.

But I think it goes back to the not enough calories thing. I increase my calories by my terrible cheat on one day and suddenly the weight comes off. Weird.

[Shark01]

Saw this conversation going on and just have to throw a wrench in ;) I think this minimum calorie thing is very silly. I actually think the lawyers behind the food pyramid scam are trying to sabatage us as well :lol: Pouring cream into something JUST to add calories is really out there :daze: Why count calories? The diet is based upon the simple rule of replacing carbs with something else.

The reason people stall is because the body is pretty smart and catches up with what you are doing eventually. The reason you started losing again after raising calories is becaused you CHANGED something. You would have gotten the same result a hundred of other ways too (like taking Metabolife, start exercising, go on another diet (like CAD) for a while, etc.).

I know when I go to lunch, the normal weight person doesn't ask me if I'm going to eat that roll on my plate because he needs to "get a few more calories in". His body told him he was satisfied and he stopped. That's why we are fat, we are too addicted to food to listen to our body :(

OK, carry on

[mdxgirl37]

sherry b and shark, you both have good points.

i had said in a post a couple of days ago that i didn't like counting calories because it felt like a diet. i don't like counting them if it is in relationship to TOO MANY calories as in "oh no I have eaten toooooo much" :D but i also think, for me, making sure I have eaten enough calories (we are so used to restricting) is something i will need to watch.

shark, i have heard a lot about your journal....so i am headin' that way now.

thanks for input from all corners. kelly

[Sherry B]

You can put your body in starvation mode, you can slow down your metabolism and you can stall your diet if you don't eat enough.

Believe me I did it for two years.

I agree that there is more than one way to rev up a sluggish metabolism, but to just ignore it and "hope it will go away" isn't the answer.

I don't pour cream into something just to increase calories. It is a small treat for me, something that I enjoy. If it also has the effect of helping me increase my calories enough that I'm not perpetually stalled, that is a good thing.

Changing something? Yes I tried changing any number of things. But if your body has slowed down to the point where it refuses to part with another pound, you have to make sure you change the RIGHT things or it won't work.

Maybe you haven't experienced the frustration of staying with a diet for over 2 years and still not being able to go below a certain weight. Or if you did by a pound or two to have it bounce back up within a few days.

That is what I lived with from about November 2000 until May of 2002. In May I increased calories and lost almost immediately.

Never argue with success.

[Shark01]

Sherry,
Different strokes for different folks I guess, I just want others to know there is a logical argument for not counting anything........except for the pounds coming off :cool:

[PJ in Miam]

On my "trial run" for 3 weeks of LC, I really had an issue with the calories. Every day the people here with helpful advice on the food logs would say, GADS! Not enough calories! I think they were right although given it was induction it likely mattered less than in long-term LC.

I have noticed from reading a great deal of people's posts over the last 9 months, that those in the first 6-12 months of LC, tend to have very different experience than those in the longer-term of LC. It does appear that the body loses weight like crazy for some time, and then -- different points for different people -- often a somewhat different approach is required. So I think some of the "wisdom" of what works or doesn't, besides being different for different people (I do believe that some genetic factor affects the 'starvation-response' in some people being much quicker and more profound than in others), can also relate to the length of time they've been LCing.

I did, near the end, really get to LOVE -- love, love, love, love -- a gigantic salad of spinach and romain, with homemade blue cheese dressing (never knew you could make it so easy -- and I loathe the sugary-sweet commercial varieties -- it's awesome!).

The problem I had is that upping my calories without upping my carbs was ridiculously difficult. When you can only have 20-30 carbs a day to begin with, it's a miracle to get the calories we DO. If I'd had my way, I'd have eaten more salad, but that needed more dressing for my taste -- and frankly, the abundance of meat in a LCep made me almost dread it and made me CRAVE veggies and "light" stuff. But the salad doesn't have enough calories, and the dressing in quantity has too many carbs! Sheesh. :-)

I know, it's all workable. The next 5-10 days (waiting on a check here) while I get my supplements, food and planning worked out, one thing I am really going to have to seriously consider is how to get calories into me without ODing on the carbs.

I probably weigh 440. I really don't know. My 'minimum' carbs would be over 4000 -- I couldn't eat that many OFF a LC plan for godssake. (Unless I lived on toffee. ;-)) So my "trial" where I had a really hard time even getting in 1500 a day... well... this time, I will do better. But it's going to take some thinking.

The best value of a thread like this would be for people to suggest the various ways (thanks to those who did!) that they managed to increase their calories without blowing their carbs. I could use all the helpful hints I can get in that direction.

P.S. The one thing I remember most about my trial, was how amazingly, fantastically, delightfully yummy the mock chicken fried rice was. I loathe cauliflower -- but I loved that dish so much, I think I am going to make it a staple in my new commitment. That doesn't even require a LC eating plan to want more of!

PJ

[orchidday]

:p

There is some really amazing advice in this thread! It is a joy to know I can come into the "Triple Digits" Club at anytime and find this kind of support and wisdom. I read every word each of you write and it gives me a lot to think about!

My WOL is close to Shark's. I keep my carbs between 20-30 per day and I just keep it in my head. I do not use fit.day or use the journal. When examining my dieting history of massive failure - I have come to understand that I have a problem becoming too obsessive about dieting. For example, when I was on Weight Watcher's I was perfect and I lost a lot of weight. Nobody enjoyed the weighing, measuring, blah blah blah like I did. But that led to my ultimate failure.

I have to look at LC eating as a way of life, forever. If I start becoming too compulsive about it - I will get bored with that and quit the program! I know that my interest in LCing will wane, and that is what I have to prepare for. So for me, success has to mean no charts, no writing stuff down, no counting calories or using a calculator to figure out how many nuts I can eat, etc. A more relaxed pace, and more REASONABLENESS will last me a lifetime.

Every Sunday morning I weigh and I keep track of it at Atkinscenter.com. I keep track of my carbs loosely in my head. I try to exercise for awhile at least every other day. I know that I rebel against structure of any type (interesting because I also work at home for myself) and that too much structure with LC will be the ruin of me! So, keep it light, keep the carbs down, and move more often! You can get there. Cindi :roll:

[TigerLB55]

Really not all the diffcult if you want extra calories while low carbing. Take some olvie oil, safflower oil, flax oil ect. put a couple tablespoons in 4-8oz ofwater and down it like a shot not hard

[TigerLB55]

Really not all the diffcult if you want extra calories while low carbing. Take some olvie oil, safflower oil, flax oil ect. put a couple tablespoons in 4-8oz ofwater and down it like a shot not hard

[Shark01]

Yeah, but ask yourself if this makes any sense at all :daze:

If you're eating 300 calories a day, sure you should eat more. But that's not the case with most of us. I'm not going to choke crap down just to add calories. I just follow the diet:

Eat when you're hungry, eat the right (ie no or low carb) things, move around, and don't worry about anything else :cool:

Hear that?..........it's the sound of pounds coming off :thup:

[suze_c]

hi there Lee~ well you sure have gotten varying replies to your question... is your head through spinning yet? :spin: I think Shark has a good point... we ALL have to find what works for EACH ONE INDIVIDUALLY! Now, that said... there are going to be similarities in LC plans, and also in the way weight is lost or sometimes...even gained... I done induction for a month, as Atkins stated, although I know my carbs were not nearly close to 20... and my calories... *shrug* HellifIknow.... I didn't count 'em... why? I DIDN'T HAVE TO... DIDN'T WANT TO!!! I ate what he said was allowed, ate whenever I wanted to, and lost 20 lbs. and 34.50 inches in a month's time! Now I have combined Atkins and Stillman's diet, and am experimenting with it...which is a high protein/low carb/low fat plan... Don't get real hung up on the scale... take measurements and go by them too... there are times you will lose via tape measure, but not by the scale! Or go by how your clothes fit! Whatever works for you! And enough calories or not... I just ain't gonna do *shots of oil* :lol: According to what some say on here. of getting 10-12x your weight in calories... sorry it gonna happen here... what I am doing is working for me.... and should it slow down or stop... then I will tweak my plan... but I ain't gonna stuff myself in order to reach what is *calorie quota*... and that's my two cents in this thread :daze:

[TigerLB55]

well i think one of the problems with us is that we wouldnt be in the situation that your in now if you ate till your full then stopped. Number two with a low carb diet many people fail to get enough calories as there only so much protein rich food people want to eat. If you start your diet and eat to few calories youll slow down your metabolism and hit a sticking point much faster then you should you should start at reducing 500 calories from maintence then when hitting a slow rut start subtracting 100-200 calories a day. For me maintence is at 3600 calories when i start to cut up my diet starts at 3100 and by the end of my 4 month cycle its down to 2100

[suze_c]

TigerLB55... I see by your stats... you are working on GAINING... whether it be muscle... you are STILL gaining your total mass... I, on the other hand, am working on LOSING my total mass... I probably have memorized all the studies... criteria yadda yadda yadda about starvation, so on and so forth that does not happen when your body does not get enough calories... and I DO appreciate the information pointed out... HOWEVER... I am doing what works for ME... I done this before... even stricter than what I am now... and only time will tell its success now... if my weight loss slows down... I will tweak my plan... pure and simple. And as far as getting enough protein rich foods for my daily rationing, no problem... I done Stillmans when I was younger, even stricter than Atkins... a carnivore's dream diet :lol: that was before he added the sugar-free gelatin, so meats,cheeses,and eggs... that was it... but again... it goes back to each to their own~ and ughhhh I think a dirty diaper is calling me away from doing any further posting atm, and off to do mommy duty~ :lol:

[TigerLB55]

well i entered my first body building comp. a little over 5 months ago. If your looking for specifics give me an im and i will get them to you. But ill tell you i gain weight then i lose it the only difference is i have it all planned out but when im at 215lbs and i have to get down to 165 for the contest is probaly harder for me cause losing 5 lbs when your at 8%bf is tough

[suze_c]

Tiger... I understand where your body requirements would be different than mine, being a bodybuilder... I use to lift weights... I thoroughly enjoyed doing it too... I was already strong, and the added advantage of taking care of my son who has CP, and having to lift him, and take care of him, helped me to have underlying muscle bulk despite the extra weight I was carrying. When I do lift, I get this "pumped" attitude... for lack of a better description, and feel like I can take on the world :lol: Although I weigh what I do... I am quite strong and muscular through my legs, and arms... and to a certain degree my upper back... the thing that prohibits me... is some sort of problem with my back and pelvis area, and I am in constant pain... I had our daughter a year ago... and when I lift a certain way, I can still tell where I was cut for my c-section,it is almost a searing pain, and it is very frustrating, and limits what I can do.I am currently in the process of adding exercises, and incorporating a weight routine using varying dumbell weight... oh yeah... when I did my whole body routine... I used Lisa Lyon's total body workout... she had a book out, and I also done walking/jogging and a rowing machine, and exercise bike.

[TigerLB55]

well the only reason i poke around here is because if you just start looking into bodybuilding nutrition youll see cutting out carbs used for cutting through out its history its a tired and true system that works. I took a frat buddy of mine pushing 300+ pounds and made him follow the guidlines i set for him. This means not always eating what you like believe me there were many days i didnt want to get up and eat tuna and orange roughy all day but its a mean to an end. Anyway back to my point i got him all the way down to 220lbs in 5 months. I now having him bulk up for a 3 month period. This will allow him to put on some muscle and re spark his metabolism. And just let his mind calm down after a couple rough months of dieting its not an eating free for all but 1-3 pounds a month should come on. When the time comes to drop to about 180 like he wants to it should be no problem

[TigerLB55]

sometimes you have to take a step forward to take two steps back