How did you become SO obese?

[levi]

first of all, this posting is not intended to flame anybody nor to make fun about anyones weight problems.

i really am curious to know how it could happen that you end up 300+ lbs as a male or 200+ as a female.

surely genetics may play a role but i think here in germany there are also lots of people with bad genetics, borderline-diabetes, hypothyrodism and so on but it is absolutely rare to see men or women being 40 or 45% or even more BF.

yes, there are lots of obese people here too, but not THAT obese, do you understand what i mean?

whenever i watch something on tv about the us, say a report from new york and they just show a street and some pedestrians there are SEVERAL poor guys or girls among them who look like 50% bf+ - does it have to do with bad nutritional education in the childhood ? or the constant availability of sugar-foods (well, its virtually the same here in europe, we`ve got mc d, burgwer king, pizza hut, smarties, pop tarts ..., too, so i dont think thats the point)

again, i do not want to blame anybody for being obese, i really am curious about the reason for what i described above.

thanks a lot for your honest answers.

[OKwoer]

"How to Win Friends and Influence People" by levi

[DarkLotus]

I have read articles recently on a study that persons with lower incomes generally have a poor diet and/or are more likely to be overweight. This does not mean everyone of course. I would guess that not being able to afford the better brands of foods that have less additives and fillers would be one reason that poor people tend to be heavier according to what I read. And, for the record, I grew up poor too ;)

The cheaper brands of foods have all kinds of things in them: for instance, I was comparing two brands of chicken broth, the store brand turned out to contain potato starch and said zero carbs, the brand name did not have any starches at all. So I paid one dollar more per can for the better brand. Not everyone can do that though. Also, just about everything in the grocery store has sugar in it.

Why am I so obese? (And you probably have PO'd some people with this post you know) Let's see...where to start...beer, beer, birth control, genetics, beer, and lack of exercise were my downfall.

[Bonnie]

If I could jump in here with my thoughts :) ...I was never what you would call terribly obese...the problem with anyone who may have a weight problem is the fact that high carb foods are cheap compared to high protein foods... go to any restaurant and what do they serve... small portions of protein loaded with huge portions of fries, pasta and other high carb foods to fill up the plates...I suspect with most North Americans when served this pre LC we were conditioned to eat what was on our plates..now armed with LC knowledge we can just say no to those cheap high carb items being served...

Bonnie

[Shark01]

Oh, you don't want to flame anybody huh :mad:

Thread titles like this show your ignorance and bigotry very clearly :thdown:

I don't go around public forums asking why you are SO stupid do I :rolleyes:

Why don't you go spend some more quality time in front of a mirror Zoolander :wave:

[razzle]

If you're interested, Levi, read Adiposity 101, on the web. Also hunt down articles by David Garner, Susan Wooley, other so-called "anti-diet" researchers.

The main non-glandular cause of childhood obesity is overeating, often on the heels of horrible physical or sexual abuse (sometimes living in the face of drug addicted parents can "do it" for sensitive children), In effect, children numb this unthinkable pain with the brain chemicals that sweets produce.

The main cause of adult obesity is low-cal dieting. Every low cal diet lowers metabolism. Every inevitiable regain of weight on the heels of one adds fat cells (the only time you can add fat cells other than 0-3 years, puberty, and pregnancy).

this last ends up being pretty ironic. Most of the fat people you see got there not through a dirth of dietary self-control, but through too much. Like me, they probably have lived years and years on 500 calorie/day diets or less. This is REALLY hard to do--try it for a couple years and see!--and all it does is change your set point weight up by X pounds (probably differs from individual to individual) per year while lowering your metabolism permanently.

For me, I'd say my set point went up by 5 pounds per year of VLCDs. And my metabolism lowered, so that now, any calorie intake over 1600, even doing two hours of exercise per day, even eating low carb, causes weight gain. I'll be interested to see the long-term effect of this. It's quite possible that steady low-cal eating can extend one's lifespan. If the cardiac damage I did myself with those diets doesn't catch up to me, heck, I might live to 140! (er, must go re-calculate retirement planning)

HTH. There's some great medical journal reading out there (not the popular press stuff, which is bullshit), and if you want to educate yourself, that'd be wonderful. I love to see folks educate themselves out of whatever sorts of prejudices they have. It gives me faith in a better world.

[tamarian]

Hi folks,

This thread was moved from the tripple digits support area to general low-carbing.

Wa'il

[Topazmom]

I personally wasn't offended by Levi's question. As you can see he is from Germany, he may not have been able to get his question across in terms that we respond to. I could be wrong, but I think it is just a question of curiousity. Obesity is a huge problem in America. That is why we are all here right? I don't like the word obese, I never have. But it is there. And I have to admit I am. It is a slap in the face, but maybe that is what I need. Levi's question, coming from someone who looks like him seems insulting, but would we have reacted the same way if his picture was different? I'm not trying to make anyone mad, I'm just giving another viewpoint and I could be way off base. The internet is a cold medium. Sometimes it is hard to get things across to people in the way you really want to. That being said.....

Several things lead to my "obesity". I am the only obese member of my family. My sister and I were raised in the same house with the same parents and from childhood I was the chubby one and my sister was the skinny one. Genetics.....somewhat. Overeating ...mainly! I have eaten emotionally since childhood as well, and there wasn't much exercise involved. That is pretty much it. I'm sure convienence foods have alot to do with it too.

I think eating a high protein, low carb diet is pretty much the way out, and I intend to do it for life.

Whitney

[levi]

come on, folks! why are YOU so ignorant and intolerant??

once again, it is not my aim to accuse someone for his or her body it is just that i (yes, one of the guys some of you point with your finger at and say "oh no, look at this conceited drug-fed a**hole over there what does he think who he is?") really want to know something about the reasons why north-americans tend to be either super-fit or super-obese in comparison to europeans who are normally - well - more in between of these two extremes.

sorry that my avatar may arouse feelings of being a super-loser, but if a lean person is not allowed to ask not-lean persons why they are obese, this is a sad thing.

everyone can ask me whatever he wants as long it is not offensive and i think this is the way we should cooperate with each other - just by telling every lean person asking unconfortabe questions to shut up and leave your forum you will never find acceptence in public.

so thanks to those who tried to answer my question and uuuh good bye to those i have offended by asking why you play in the triple-digits-league i wnt dae to ask you such terrible things again.

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by levi
i really am curious to know how it could happen that you end up 300+ lbs as a male or 200+ as a female.

A combination of low fat / low calorie dieting and excessive cardio, severe hypoglycemia and a little insulin resistance had me up to over 241 lbs. I dieted myself fat - it took a few years, it was very frustrating and not much fun.

You'll find mine is a pretty common answer.

As Raz suggested, read Adiposity 101 - it's a real eye opener.

Nat

[missbetsy]

I really identify with what Nat said. For me, when I was a kid I ates tons of sugar daily and was active and did not have a weight problem. This may have been the beginning of the problems that would lead to my current health struggle. As I got older I started to fight the weight and starve myself. The short version is that eventually, my husband realized that something was wrong after we were married. I had ended up with insulin resistance and PCOS. Once I became insulin resistant, the weight had piled on and no amount of dieting with carbs was going to help me. I am lucky to have a name or label for what happened to me. But it is my responsibility to take control of the insulin resistance / PCOS and the dietary changes that I have to make. The down side of this struggle is that my body demands sugar, and I have to fight it every day. I'm guessing that an inordinate amount of people on this sight also have insulin reistance and, according to studies, 20% of the female population alone has PCOS which goes hand in hand with insulin resistance (hence obesity). Certain trends towards medical problems run among cultural and regional populations, and this may be part of the explanation you are looking for.

[Talon]

As an obese person, I am not offended by this question. I think it is something, while uncomfortable, we need to ask ourselves. Is it genetics? Yo-Yo dieting? Emotional Eating? All of the above? Something else?

For me, I think it is a combination. Eating carbs makes me hungrier and craving more carbs, then my body says "Oh boy, give me more still!" and I did. For me carbohydrates are the enemy, they take away some of the self control I didn't think I had, but actually do. Then there is the "high" you get off eating sugar, and when you are down, you want to medicate yourself to feel better - eating a candy bar.

My family is prone to high blood pressure, insulin problems and being overweight. Fortunately for me, I've found my solution/savior - lowered carbohydrate eating. I feel satisfied when full, I don't crave things when I am not hungry. I also don't feel the need anymore to "clean my plate" for all those starving children. How is my overeating going to help starving children?

I think another poster hit another nail on the head - carbohydrate rich foods are cheaper, and easier - and more widely acceptable as "healthy" foods.

Dr Atkins was the start of my healing, fighting those ingrained behaviors and thoughts is all me - and is as individualistic as each of us. Each of us has our genetic makeup, each has their own emotional responses. Some have no emotional eating problems, which is wonderful! Some of us do, and it is up to each of us as individuals to find out what makes ourselves tick.

[Atrsy]

I am not offended by this question, because I sometimes wonder the same thing. I can also agree with the person who said that lower income folks tend to be larger because of the less expensive foods that are very filling (pasta and potatoes). Also advertising in the USA is geared toward cars, junk food, and prescription drugs!

I am sometimes amazed at the girth on the majority of people I see when I'm out. In fact, one year at a fair, my neice and I sat and watched people walk by and we tried to count those who were overweight. It got to the point that if they were not huge, we didn't count them because overweight seemed to be normal!

I was raised in a PA Dutch area (German decent) and those people really eat the stick to the ribs diet. It really surprises me to hear that Germans aren't overweight, too. I always thought it was the cooking that made most of the people in my area overweight.

As for me, I wasn't really that much overweight until I had children. Before that, I averaged 150 lbs. I went up a little with the first two babies, but was about 175 when I got pregnant with my 3rd child when I was 40 years old. It has changed my whole body and I still weight almost what I weighed when I delivered him.

As Nat said, dieting made things much worse. The more I dieted, the fatter I got. I have gotten myself into a situation where it is almost impossible for me to lose weight. This will take time to remedy, but that's why I'm here

Carol

[Lessara]

I don't mind either.

I was actually a thin kid, a thin hyeractive kid. I ran, jumped, swimmed... everything. My mother told me it was hard to keep me in the house. But then in high school, I was misdiagnosed with a joint disorder and both my legs were in casts from my ankles to the tops of my thighs. Afterwards I was told no exercise or my conditioned would be worse. Imagine how bored I was! :rolleyes:
Now understand growing up, my parents put food on my plate and I had to eat it all or else.
Well, I kept eating all my food, but now I had no way of getting rid of the calories. I went from 140 to 240 in two years.
Then I had children.. and pretty soon 300. Exercise, something I loved had become a stranger. :(
Its hard to believe I loved the outdoors like I did.
Hmmm... makes me miss the ocean... swimming was my favorite sport.

[lilwannabe]

This question does not offend me...I think it is a good question. I think I am pretty self-aware...I am obese...that is a fact.

My weight problem started as a child...I was sexually abused, and think that that started it. My mother had me on diets since I was about 7 ...so yo-yo-ing has been a big part of my whole life...

I was never really overly fat until after I turned 30...I was chunky, but not near like I am now...but my depression, and anxiety didn't start until after I was 30 either...I believe it is all tied together...I have tried to stuff my feelings for many years now...I have been afraid to speak up or out when I did not like something, for fear that my opinion doesn't count. I still struggle with this daily...I am afraid people think I am stupid. I am always thinking that I don't have the answers, or because someone else has a different idea on what is right, then I must be wrong. I feel paronoid (sp) that people think I am a waste of space. I think I have let my mom down as she seems more interested in what her husbands family is doing than mine. My father has been absent almost all my life...he chose not to have a relationship with me. My step-father, who is now dead, was very mentally abusive...telling me almost daily what a loser I was...And never once in 20 years ever held me, or told me he loved me. My husband is constantly never satisfied with my small goals. He is always pushing for perfection..(maybe not..but that's how it feels sometimes)...these things all add up to me, not being good enough...food would help me feel better...even if it lasted only a few minutes...The minute I feel like crying...I want to run to sugar. I have a hard time finding things about myself that I like...And all the negative self talk ...well I could go on and on...(apparently I have)

I have been in counselling for a while now to help me deal with these issues...I have read book, watched programs on TV...I pray..and I come here often...these things all help me...I hope to overcome. I want to live happy...and I want to be healthy...

Sorry to have gone on and on...but these are some of the reasons that I have become so obese...

[fridayeyes]

I do think Levi worded his question poorly, which may or may not be a result of his native language not being English. This information - how various people came to the weights they are currently at - is also available in a number of threads with pretty evident titles, so he could also have looked there first.

There is, however, an underlying assumption in his post that I find amusing for the stereotype on which it relies. He posted in triple digits, therefore assuming that the people he was talking to had at least 100 lbs to lose. He then tags the audience for his question as "200+ for a female". The presupposition here is that a 'healthy' female weighs about 100 lbs. And to add further interest, he seems to think that if you're male, you can weigh about 100 lbs more before he considers you 'obese'.

*Friday does the diva snap*

Honey, I got one thing to say to that: My LBM alone is 128 lbs. Put that in your heroin chic and smoke it. :D

What vital organs would you like me to give up to suit your feminine ideal? My liver? How about my brain?

Cheers,

Friday

P.S. Sometimes enlightenment comes through gentle and patient education. Sometimes enlightenment comes through the sudden whack of the shinai. I'm much more in the shinai mood today. :)

[alice 2002]

Question for you Levi... why have you joined this web site? Are you or have you been obese? I am curious, as to how you became overweight?

If the picture you attached is yours, you have a nice body...and should take care of it.

We are all trying to take care of ourselves, regardless of where we came from and what got us to this place.

I know how I got here, and I am grateful that I have found such supportive and loving people..

I hope you find what you are looking for.

[Lisa in MD]

we're all supposed to be blue-eyed blondes as well? I guess I'm offended because no one would walk up to anyone on the street and ask this question. Well, no one that has any semblance of manners, so why is it okay to ask this question here? Because there's no face-to-face contact? I'm sure that your question could've been researched without asking such a loaded, personal question.

[levi]

~alice:
i joinéd this board because i am low-carbing for nearly two years now and i am searching for an appropriate way to switch from a ckd to an easier to follow regimen like zone or isocaloric - this is why i entered this board.

thank you for your cheer-up on my body - do NOT think everybody admires you for looking lean and fit - there are always a lot of jealous people or those who say it is all up to your bodybuilding-drugs-use (this point normally comes from guys with a cigarette in one and a bottle of beer in the other hand).

apart from that the problems stay the same even when you are lean - you still MUST be careful with exercising and dieting, resting, sleeping, not overtraining etc.

~fridayeyes:

you are right with your point on english not being my first language; although i think i know the gist of english grammar and vocabulary that does NOT automatically imply that i choose the right way to say what i want without offending people from another country who may have other rules of politeness than my own, for example not being too straight with your words.

BTW, i took 200 lbs for a woman and 300 lbs for men cause i think the average male is taller and more muscular than the average female.

for sure, if you are a female with a height of 5`10`` or so then 200 lbs do absolutly not mean you are overly obese.

i simply posted this question in the tripledigits club because i thought i could meet a lot of persons who can give me an answer to my question there and to be honest i didnt think a lot about 200 / 300 lbs - i took them because they are round numbers (could as well be 100 / 150 kg).

~all others:

thank you very much for your honest answers, they are very well appreciated, i now can partly understand the problem, esp. the combination of insulin-problems and wrong nutritional education in childhood makes perfect sense to me.

[Lisa in MD]

But still obese, huh? :thdown: I doubt most would agree with that....

[fridayeyes]

Hi, Levi,

Having dispensed with the shinai, I can now proffer the other mode of enlightenment. :)

Your post violated two basic tenets of politeness: familiarity and tact.

Familiarity is the idea that the better you know someone, the more personal the questions you may ask without offending.

Tact is the ability to know what is likely to be offensive or provocative and to choose your words so as to present the most benign interpretation.

When familiarity is low, tact must be high or offense is given.

Think for a moment about why you capitalized the word SO in the title of your post. Did you have suspicions that it might offend? If so, why did you do it anyway, and are you really surprised at the reactions you got?

A better title might have been: What do you think is behind your weight problem? Or, to make the question even less individually personal: Why do people gain weight?

Another general rule of politeness: Assuming you do care about having given offense, it is considered 'gentlemanly' to apologize, even if the offense was unintended or accidental. *wink*

Cheers,

Friday

[nawchem]

Hi Levi,
I'm taking a weight management course right now and they say the American culture is fattening. We drive everywhere, we eat fast food, and we watch a lot of tv.

At my church they have donuts, chocolate and cookies every Sunday. At my work they supply food for us. There are big candy bowls by the copier. Bowls of tortilla chips and m&ms sitting around. Our lunchroom has almost every candy bar, chip, cracker and soda available. We usually have pizza, mexican food, American Chinese and sandwiches. Human resources did a study and the junkfood was found to be the #1 perk that kept people at a company. We joke that you gain 10lbs as soon as you join the company.

Since I've been lowcarbing I've discovered that there are many other choices but I grew up loving junkfood and fast food and probably would never have changed if I hadn't started gaining weight.


Nancy

[Soinwi]

YOU GO GIRL!!!!

You can count me in the beatings!!! I am 5ft 11 and at 200lbs I wear a size 14 and think I look DAMN GOOD!!! No I will never be stick skinny but I have nuscle and I love my body STRONG AND HEALTHY!!!!!

Sonja :D

[plum]

How did I get up to (pre- Atkins) 228 lbs ?

I feel very strongly about this, because other people are at this minute going through it, and I would like to prevent it happening to them.

High - carbohydrate diets, low fat diets, all promoted by my doctors.And 1,500 calories a day( supervised by GP) while I was pregnant left me with a gain of 3 stone or so.

A glucose tolerance test ... showing what I know now to be reactive hypoglycaemia.... and my doctor scratching his head, saying "well, its highly abnormal. But its not actually diabetes so thats ok"

yes thats the honest truth as to why I got fat. I didnt cheat on my high carb diet, I have terrific willpower. But I was despairing as to why I felt so low., and how I slowly gained.

Now I want to lose fat and change the mind - set of UK doctors.

[Victoria]

Levi,
I think the people on this forum have been incredibly kind and helpful to you even tho you have phrased your question in an unkind way. As fridayeyes has stated very nicely, you could have said it much more tactfully. Assuming you have good intentions in asking your question, plenty of folks have answered very succinctly. If you were "obese" yourself, then it would not have been offensive. Then it would be one person with similiar experiences asking others what their experiences have been. But since you have never really had this type of weight problem, it comes off as extremely insensitive. Or then again, it could just be HOW you phrased it. :( Victoria

[Danyele]

hi,

I'm not obese, i actually have quite a bit of muscle for my size. nevertheless, my weight gain was caused by 2 years of anorexia, using Hydroxycut and exercising 2 hours almost every day. I was going to university full time and working on my feet 8 hours a day. I exhausted my adrenals which in turn caused my hypothyroidism. I would do cardio 5 days a week and play soccer 2 days a week(competitive) and still gain weight. My brother who is a competitive natural bodybuilder even helped me with my diet and exercise plan but nothing worked. Went to the doctor and he told me the weight gain was muscle and I knew otherwise. Had my thyroid checked and it was off then a year later went to a doctor who has now prescribed the Diane pill for PCOS symptoms.
My body went into starvation mode and my metabolism got screwed. I was planning on doing a fitness competition within the next few years but that will have to wait another year or two til I'm back to normal, hopefully. ANyways, that's how i gained weight.

Danyele

[lupine]

I think this is a very complex issue and there are really no simple answers to why we are seeing the kinds of body size changes here in North America. I am a cultural anthropologist so I try to look at things cross-culturally and holistically. There is the "thrifty gene" theory. Some humans may be more biologically programmed to store energy reserves (fat) and for most of our hominid history this has been a good thing. It was likely in our genes but didn't show up until we had the right social context--abundance of fast energy foods, more and more automation, different reproductive patterns, etc. North Americans in particular have cultural notions of beauty that are absolutely unobtainable for most people. This creates feelings of inadequancy and self-doubt--perfect breeding grounds for psychological pain which may lead to unhealthy eating habits. North Americans are just incredible consumers in every way--cars, food, fashion, automation. There are major differences in daily life between Europe and the US and I think we are seeing this in the comparative numbers of large people.

[tofi]

If you click on the Profile Icon below Levi's posts, it says in the biobgraphy slot that he once weighed 251 pounds at his highest. So we could ask how he got that fat. It must be that, at that weight, he decided to try to do something about it - just like all of us here.

I note also that he only has 5% body fat. Seems to me that is somewhat low for healthy functioning. But his object seems to be muscle building and body sculpting, so health may not matter at the present. I wonder what will happen in later years?

I agree that the original post was very rude for a new member to make. He may be interested in ketogenic diets but it was unkind and projected scorn for people over those weights rather than honest interest.

JMHO



:wave:

[wangeci]

Levi,

I have always been extremely large boned, at the age of 16 and wearing an American Junior size 9/10 and at the height of 5'8.5", I was still larger then most people in school but very slim at 176 lbs (to most that is heavy, but I could not be skinnier because of my bones). When I was 25 I snapped my achilles tendon in volleyball and slowed down very much. Then at the age of 28 was diagnosed with Pulmonary Hypertension (a lung disease) I could not walk up a flight of stairs without collapsing. So, the charts call me obese at 217 lbs, however, I do not feel I look obese, however, I have one hell of a time trying to get my weight off, since I cannot exercise like most people. When I was young, I ran miles and miles and lifted many weights to be at 176 and slim. So, that is why on the charts I am "obese", however, I believe I am over weight, yet not obese.

I am not offended by your question. I wish more people who have never been overweight or obese, could be in our shoes and know what it feels like.

Cindy :wave:

[Lisa N]

Levi...

I'm not sure that your assessment of the obesity rates between the US and Germany are terribly accurate. Check this link for the actual statistics: http://www.iuns.org/features/obesity/obesity.htm
If you look closely at the obesity rates of the US compared to those in Germany, you should notice that they are actually quite close numbers-wise. You should also note that obesity rates are climbing at alarming rates in both the US and in Europe in general.
FYI...the US doesn't hold the record for the highest percentage of overweight individuals...Urban Samoa has that dubious honor with 75% of it's population at obese weights.

As for your question as to how people get 100+ pounds over their healthy weights (I won't say "ideal" because healthy weights are as individual as people are), I think will find as many different answers as there are people in that classification. Many of them got there by following what they believed was good advice from their doctors: eat low fat, high carb. Some got to those alarming weights by taking prescription drugs for other medical problems which case weight gain as a side-effect. Still others arrived in the land of obesity through overeating and underexercising for a host of reasons, both physical and emotional; the more overweight you get, the less active you tend to be, so it becomes a vicious cycle. Many others will tell you that they honestly don't know (and they really don't) and that everything that they have tried has only resulted in their gaining still more weight.

Most people who are overweight aren't that way because they WANT to be, but rather because they can't find any solution that works and if you don't think people are looking for a solution, take a hard look at all the diets and diet products on the market. They wouldn't be there if people weren't buying them and people wouldn't be buying them if they weren't trying to lose weight.

It's time that we stopped thinking of and treating those who are overweight as if they have some sort of moral shortcoming and that their obesity is somehow all their fault and theirs alone and started realizing that at the heart of it is often a medical condition that has long gone unrecognized and treated poorly, if at all. The overweight are not morally deficient or gluttons; most of them have a disease called insulin resistance. Well-meaning doctors have told the overweight for decades "eat less and you'll lose weight" or "cut back on the fat and you'll lose weight" and then blamed the poor patient who faithfully followed that advice for getting fatter, made them feel it was "their fault" for not "being serious about losing weight" and sent them home to hang their heads in shame and frustration when it should have been the doctor hanging his (or her) head in shame for failing to recognize and treat the real problem. I have PCOS and was told by an internist that my only problem was what he termed "overactive hand to mouth syndrome" when, in fact, I was consuming 1,200 calories a day on a regular basis. He never did any tests. He just looked at my fat body and assumed that I was gluttonous.

It's hard to understand or even comprehend the prejudice and emotional abuse that the obese suffer at the hands of the ignorant and often even at the hands of those who love them if you've never been there yourself, but please understand that underneath that layer of fat is often a hurting person who has some very raw emotions about the subject and don't be surprised when you see those emotions coming out when you ask them how they got that way. It's comparable to asking a terminal cancer patient what they did to give themselves cancer.

[Mae West]

Hi Levi,

Add me to the list of lowcarbers who aren't offended by your question. Actually, I have read the same question before, on another low carb newsgroup, from a lady who was from England(?) or was it France(?)

(Actually, she was quite a bit more tactful, but I'm assuming you've been taking notes from the "Tact 101" professors who have been replying to your question, and you'll do a lot better next time. Right?)

Anyway, the other lady also mentioned that it seemed to her she saw quite a few more severely overweight people when she visited the States, than she ever did in her native country.

I believe the medical community and U.S.Federally funded nutritionists have done a vast disservice to the people of the United States.

About 20 years ago they began insisting that the only correct diet for almost any disorder was low-fat. They worked in earnest to overhaul the "4 Food Group" plan, in favor of the "Food Pyramid" which almost eliminated fat and protein from an entire nation's diet.

As a result, heart-disease, diabetes, and obesity are now epidemic in the U.S... while in France, the population is still continuing to eat as much fatty meats, and butter, and rich creams, and sauces, and creme-filled pastries as they wish-- and not jogging or doing aerobics like their American counterparts-- but heart disease, diabetes, and obesity are relatively rare.

The U.S. medical community is mystified by what they call "The French Paradox," and can't figure out how the French can continue to be so healthy while eating such "unhealthy" foods. Some have speculated that it has something to do with the "healthy effects" of drinking the French wine.

Very few in the American medical community dare to speculate that a *healthy* *balanced* diet which also consists of a sufficient amount of *fat* and *protein* could actually be the answer!

Little by little, the medical community seems to be coming around now, and admitting that low-fat is not the answer.

Unfortunately, it's too late for many, many people who trusted their doctor's advice, and became fat and unhealthy while eating whole pans of brownies because they were "fat-free" and "allowed" on their low-fat diet!

I'm sure this is not the entire answer to your question, but I believe it's a big part of the problem.

By the way, congratulations on your own success with low carbing!

Mae West
"Why don't you come up and visit me sometime when I've got nothing on but the radio?" The other Mae West

[disneybebe]

Hey Levi,

Wow, wow, wow!! U look awesome :thup: :daze: :spin: :roll:

A few months ago, my friend (he lives in LA) & I had an interesting chat about this subject.

In my humble opinion, I think that Americans are getting bigger because of all those brilliant TV shows!!

I mean ER, The Sopranoes, Friends, Ally McBeal......... (I could go on & on.)

With shows that good, everyone just spends hours & hours in front of the TV, and the weight can pile on very easily. Don't forget that a lot of people tend to snack when watching TV. I have to have nuts when I'm watching soccer, darn habit :rolleyes:

On a more serious note.......
I think it's wrong that they advertise stuff like Kelloggs' pop-tarts, Frosties...... as healthy foods.
I also think that the "typical" food-pyramid are making people bigger & bigger, and less healthy as well. :rolleyes:

HK people are getting bigger, too.

Take care.

Bebe :wave:

[razzle]

whoever mentioned genes...

the research in the Human Genome project is ongoing. So far, I read this year, over thirty seperate genes have been implicated in obesity (in fact, how fat we are may just be a matter of how many of these we got!)

An older (and so shorter) list of those genes is available at:

http://www.cdc.gov/genomics/info/perspectives/files/obesdisord.htm

[MrFrumble]

As a first generation German who spent time living in Germany as a child I think I can put some of this in perspective.

1. There is intense pressure in Germany to conform and follow the rules. Being fat is a major sin and will bring about all sorts of abuse and very overt condemnation, much worse than what is found in the states. Usually in the U.S. the merciless teasing abates after High School, in Germany it never ever ends. The only acceptable obese person in Germany is an elderly man, kinda like Schultz from Hogan's Hero's. I think Levi, that many of the very obese "Do the right thing" and stay out of the public eye, or commit suicide.

2. Europe has free medical care. In the U.S. many of the very obese are low-income and therefore have no health insurance therefore they get no care, none, nada, zilch.

3. Most German schools are much more physical education minded. Many American schools have completly removed these programs from the curriculem. (To save money). Yes it's true, it's all about the dollar in America.

4. If I remember correctly the Germans have one big meal a day at lunchtime, this was the hot cooked meal of the day were all the carbs are. Plenty of time to burn em off. Dinner is usually cold cuts and high grain breads. There's no Wonderbread in Germany!

5. Childrens TV in europe is much more responsible. No commercials till the end of the show and the pushing of carb-filled suger treats much less intense. (All about the money)

6. I was hard pressed to find Potato or Corn Chips until the 80's in Germany. God I hated that, though the peanut butter cheese puffs were pretty damm good.

7. Much less processed foods in Europe. I think Europe is catching up though.

Here's me in 1972 in my lederhosen. My parents thought I had a weight problem! I do now.

http://www.slotventure.com/ebay/lederhose.jpg

[levi]

~mrfrumble: yes, some very good points that you mention, think you are mostly right.

~the lady who asked why i once went up to 251 lbs:

this was during a bulking-up bodybuilding-cycle, which means "built as much muscle as you can and dont care about fat for , say 3-6 months".
even at 250 i was not over 20 % bf (yes I would call 20 % for a male, especially for my own person, much too fat, but thats not the way you look upon 20 % i think).

~all that feel discriminated by this posting:

once and for all, i didnt intend to flame you, if i did so unintentionally i apologize for it.

~the lady who thinks she would be slim at 200 lbs:
well, unless you are a very serious strengh athlete with lots of muscles i and i think every physician disagrees with you on that point. even at 5`10`` 200 lbs is not normal weight, not even to mention lean. (just in case you like to know my definition of normal and lean for women and men: women: normal:20-25% bf, lean: below 20%; men: normal:15-20%, lean: below 15%, preferably below 10%).

[Misty]

Being a newbie to this board myself, I understand that sometimes it takes a little lurking to get the feel for the board. I've visited several message boards and some have a harsher tone than others. Perhaps that why Levi posed the original question as he did.
Everyone here has their personal stories as to why they become obese. I'm sure my reason for gaining weight is much different than someone elses. I don't think he's going to find a general answer as to why we gain weight as a whole. The point is, we're all trying to do something about it and that's why we're here. Since we're all here for the same reason to get fit, lose weight and learn more, maybe we should be asking Levi how he became so fit. Perhaps he could help US out. Which one of us wouldn't want be that fit? I know I have a couple questions for him.
He's here to educate himself just as the rest of us are. I'd like to give him a warm welcome. Just as you all did when I joined.
I really think Levi will be able to teach us a lot and give us some great advice that perhaps we've never come across before. Let's give him a chance. He would like to learn more about low-carbing and I think there are some really knowledgable people here that can teach him a lot.
Welcome Levi, I hope you enjoy this message board.

[hjackson]

I have to admit, when I first read the topic header, it did hurt my feelings a little bit. However, I think a huge key to the difference in attitudes lies in the cultural differences. As it has been pointed out, in Germany, obese people are even more stigmatized than they are here. There's more of a focus on physical health...according to some of my German classes, nearly everyone belongs to a sports club of sorts. So, if Levi is coming out of a culture that puts much higher pressure on obese people to conform, its much harder for him to realise how much it could have offended people to ask so personal a question.
Not only that, I think we have an overwhelming attitude here in the States that it is unacceptable to step on people's toes and risk hurting feelings. This is polical correctness gone haywire, and I think we've seen now what happens in a culture where its a major sin to accidentally offend.

I think we all need to relax, and while I agree there could have been better, more tactful ways to obtain the same information, I certainly think we shouldn't stone him over it. Besides...look at how tight everything is in that picture... with my luck, everything would bounce off that hard body and pelt us instead.
;)

[levi]

~misty:

thanks for your nice posting; as i said before you can ask me everything (connected with dieting and sports) and i`ll try to give you good advice.

being low-carb for nearly 2 years straight and weightlifting for 10 years i think i know my stuff to a good degree, so just fel free to ask.

[Bonnie]

I am pleased to see the postive responses here... I too have been on boards where the poster has been driven off because of harsh responses and I don't think anyone wants to see that happen here...I suspect we can all learn something beneficial from most posts presented on this forum...

Bonnie

[Lisa in MD]

I must say I wonder about the motives of Levi and maybe it is a cultural thing, but if he knows so much about nutrition, bodybuilding, etc., he should already know how people get obese/fat. Even if I had a buff body, I wouldn't feel the need to pose in my speedo bathing suit and use it in an area where people are OBVIOUSLY having a hard time losing weight for whatever reason. I don't think being considerate of others, etc., can be lumped into "overt PCness". It's something I consider common courtesy that was taught to me as a child.

Just my opinion for what it's worth and sorry, but I'm not drooling over the hardbody, however, the NY Firefighters Bare-Chested calendar is now available. That, I can enjoy the aesthetic pleasures of.....

[rtjdk2]

I dont mind answering this question.. I was pretty much small most of my life and then out of the blue i gained some weight when i got a job sitting in a sewing factory... went from being active to non active.. did manage to loose the weight back down by just watching what i was eating and exercising.. kept it off pretty much.. till i become pregnant with my first.. and developed gestational diabeties.. and boom the weight kept coming on when i was pregnant.. after my first son was born i stabilized at 174... big jump from the 112 i use to be... then with son number 2 i gained only 40 lbs to loose back down to 174 again after he was born... then decided to quit smoking a few years later to hit a whopping 210 lbs... shewww.. lost a few lbs down to 196 where i kinda stabilized for a while.. until one day i had had enough of not being able to walk, run or do what i wanted with out being give out and having a hard time breathing... then i decided to start atkins and found a new way of eating.. and now im happpy to say im down 38 lbs and over 22 inches smaller.. feeling great... im still plump but feel so much healthier....

THere are many different reasons why we have gained weight.. But we all here have one thing in common we are doing something about it... and support each other while we are doing it.. Which i think is great...

Your friend
Tammy

[Natrushka]

Bonnie, hjackson and Misty I think you've all hit the nail on the head. Levi's question, while not the most tactful, was an honest one. He has appologized for the offence he has given. We should be polite enough to accept that at face value.

Every one of us brings something to this forum; how we feel about a certain issue, what we have experienced, what we expect to gain by being here - this is evident in how we reply to, and in the questions, we ask.

We certainly all know a lot more about each other now.
Nat

[Bonnie]

Originally posted by Natrushka
Bonnie, hjackson and Misty I think you've all hit the nail on the head. Levi's question, while not the most tactful, was an honest one. He has appologized for the offence he has given. We should be polite enough to accept that at face value.

Every one of us brings something to this forum; how we feel about a certain issue, what we have experienced, what we expect to gain by being here - this is evident in how we reply to, and in the questions, we ask.

We certainly all know a lot more about each other now.
Nat


Well said, Nat :thup:

Bonnie

[Lisa in MD]

That's a great post Lisa. Thanks!

[fridayeyes]

For Levi-

This is a repeat of one of my posts from earlier to save me having to type it over. Incidentally, my hands still shake talking about this as I guess I haven't really before. *weak smile*
___________

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47340&pagenumber=2

(links save so much space)
_______

So, what's different now? Well, for one, I'm 'safe'. I'm married to a wonderful man who loves me no matter what size I am. I don't have to face the dating world anymore. Frankly, I don't know what I would do if I did. Kind of makes the life of the eccentric spinster with 28 cats look attractive! :)

[garrison]

I got married! :D

(And got on birth control...started cooking the high-carb foods that HE likes...and went into "celebration" mode for about a year where I ate anything I darned well pleased!)

[levi]

~ lisa in md:

oh i would be curious to know what you really think - as i said several times before i CAN stand any kind of comment or criticism so feel free to put your feelings in words an let us all know what you think of my statements.

BTW. trainerdan has alo got an avatar where hes only wearing shorts so i dont see why i shouldnt post a picture of my physique - well in the end this is what we are talking about, right?!

[fridayeyes]

Personally, I pretty much take ppl at face value, even online (I guess that would be type-face value :) ). I mean, there's no way we can really know whether or not someone is representing themselves honestly or not, so my default is to believe them until I see evidence not to. Also, Levi has posts in CKD that pretty much indicate he knows a little something about body building. :)

Cheers,

Friday

[Lisa in MD]

I will say that I've never, in my life, understood someone who thought that they should post their mostly naked body anywhere. Again, I'm probably a couple generations behind you in my upbringing (raised by my grandparents) so I believe I have a whole different outlook on looks, etc. If being overweight weren't so darn unhealthy, I wouldn't care about it. Thin, fat, doesn't matter, never had any problem attracting male attention when I wanted it and I do attribute that to my upbringing and the no-nonsense (depression area) attention or lack of attention that looks were paid.

What you did, who you were, how you treated other people and not considering anyone below you and realizing that there's some things you shouldn't ask and if you really feel the need to do so, you better learn to do it in the nicest way possible were the things I was taught. I would rather speak the truth or not say anything in most situations. I believe that you would find me, uh, brutally honest when the situation warrants it and smart enough to know when not to say something just because I WANT to say it or because I'm THINKING it.

I just added something to the Lighter Side about the death of common sense and I guess this entire topic has gotten my dander up and it's time for me to realize I don't really have anything to add to this and it appears I might be trying to provoke you & that really wasn't my intent. Just because I KNOW better doesn't mean, even at 40, I always practice what I was taught ;)

[TRiggs]

Your hubby is one lucky guy, you are a beautiful woman!

[pegm]

I, also, was not offended by Levi's question because I have asked myself the same thing. In my case, it was a combination of factors. I became overweight as a child after a very long series of illnesses that made physical activity prohibited. In college I 'dieted' -- often going to bed early so I would not feel the hunger pangs and got down to an acceptable weight. I married and a couple of years later the weight began to creep back. When I was pregnant with my first child, surprisingly, I gained very little weight with the pregnancy and was more slim after my daugther's birth! I continued to lose weight by eating very little -- often it would be 9:00 at night and I would realize that I had not eaten yet. I also was a very heavy smoker -- sometimes 3 or 4 packs a day! I suppose I was pretty close to being anorexic -- I was 5'7" and weighed 119 pounds.

I stayed at that weight for 3 years until I became pregnant again. That pregnancy was totally different! I just kept gaining and gaining weight -- the less I ate, the more I gained until I had gained 50 pounds! It took 2 years of struggling to get back down to a reasonable weight after the birth of my second daughter. Things went along quite well for a few years -- I stayed at home with the children, grew a huge garden which I tended by hand, canned and froze most of our foods and made everything from scratch -- no processed foods. My children did not know what potato chips or Twinkies were until they started grade school and saw what the other kids had in their lunches! McDonalds was a VERY RARE treat -- maybe twice a year.

Then I quit smoking, and the weight started to creep up again. I also started working outside the home and lack of time made me turn to pre-packaged convenience foods (pastas, pizza, etc.) In an effort to keep the weight down, I did what the medical profession told me to do. I ate things like chopped veggies mixed with non-fat yogurt on pita bread, etc. I also started walking -- about 5 miles a day at 4 mph. But the weight just kept creeping up. When I asked my doctor why, she told me that I was probably gaining muscle from so much walking. And the weight creept up some more. Doctors just told me to eat less and exercise more -- eat less fats, more carbs, etc., all of which made me gain even more.

Then, my life became so frantic that I quit exercising all together. My 16 year old daughter had a baby, and my husband and I had to raise him (he is now 8 years old). My mother has Huntington's Disease and my father needed help caring for her. So, every day after work I would go home, take care of my grandson, and after he was in bed, go to my parents to help care for my mother, come home, go to bed, and start over again the next day. I was too exhausted and too pressed for time to even think about exercise, so, the pounds really started to pile on then! I even started smoking again after 11 years in an attempt to stop the weight gain and de-stress! Finally, age 50 was a turning point for me. I found a program that would provide care for my mother, quit smoking, and started low carbing.

It has been over a year now since I began this WOL -- I exercise 6 or 7 days per week and eat right. The weight is not really coming off the way I hoped -- only lost 25 pounds in 13 months and I've been stalled at the same weight for several months. My doctor told me last week that I 'have a metabolic disorder' and the only way I will lose weight is to eat only 500 calories a day! I truely hope he is wrong about that!

Well, that's my story -- so how did I get so obese? I guess that, just like most others here it was a combination -- lack of exercise, processed carb foods, genetics, etc.

[garrison]

TRiggs: I haven't been complimented like that since before I got married! :blush: You just made my day!

[Lisa in MD]

Of course, I also believe that we women don't compliment one another as much as we should, so let me echo the compliment you've been given. You are a very attractive woman! I think that if I write something like that people might think I'm hitting on them so I don't do it. Hmmm, does that make me homophobic? :D

[garrison]

I agree totally about the compliment thing...in fact, I believe that we ALL need to develop a healthy lifestyle of complimenting and encouraging one another...not just for appearances, but for all of the qualities/talents/skills we have.

I believe God gave us minds and mouths to be used with purpose. There is no sense in tearing others down with our words... We have such powerful tools right in our mouths, you know?

I'm sure many of us can relate to being made fun of as youths when our peers were all the "perfect weight" and we were chosen last for all of those sports events while growing up.

My mother taught me that it's easier to overcome evil by doing good and sometimes we just have to "kill people with kindness" instead of lashing out. (Easier said than done.)

So let me applaud you, Lisa...for holding your tongue in this most precarious thread. (In fact, it's getting so heated in here that I think I might just duck out for good!)

[Lisa in MD]

My hubby says it's one of the things he really likes about me...I'm spicy. :devil: Of course, I'm sure there have been occasions where he wishes he could cool it off a little bit. :D Like when we're driving into the city and it seems to be "Idiots Day Out" because, with the windows up I don't mind saying what I think of the nuts on the road :eek:

I think one of the major things for me is not saying something that there's nothing that can be done...as a stupid example, telling someone they have a run in their stockings because what are they going to do? No point in pointing it out to them because I truly believe doing stuff like that is done for no purpose other than making the person pointing it out feel superior. There is no point in telling someone something that they can't do anything about. Bad example, but I'm just remembering my sister pointing it out to SIL at a family function. My sister hasn't learned the finer points of tact and she is one who doesn't believe that just because you THINK it doesn't mean you should SAY it. I'm thinking she's getting a bit long in the tooth not to realize that, but maybe someday.

[tamarian]

Folks,

Unfortunately I had to moderate a few posts here (removed). If you cannot debate without insults, then don't.

Instead of closing this thread, which turned out to be very intelligent and informative, we will simply moderate repeat offenders to preserve the dialogue from degenerating.

Wa'il

[fridayeyes]

Garrison

For the record, I think you're beautiful, too. Your pic reminds me of Kate Bush (the singer).

Cheers,

Friday

[AmberinIN]

Well Levi, I think you've asked a very good question.


I started out life thin, and went through high school thin, in fact, I was a female version of you! It's so sad when I look at my pictures then. I was into weights and Martial Arts was my life. Then I had my first child. Now, that in itself was not what made me obese. I spent the first five months of my pregnancy in Germany. I don't think that their diet was terribly different from mine at the time, but the low-fat diet industry is not in Europe as it is in the US. I gained a normal weight and had my daughter. Then I decided it was time to get dieting to lose the baby weight. I lost on a low fat, low carb diet. I didn't know it was low carb at the time and was lucky to get down to a decent weight before I became pregnant with my second child. Then the third child. In between my pregnancies, I did everything I knew to diet. It was all low fat. I figured I just wasn't trying hard enough. My fat intake per day was under 20 grams, and up to last year, I went down to 10 grams a day in desparation. I exercised 6 days a week for 45 minutes to 2 hours, even though I was dead tired. I starved for weeks and months doing what was the doctor's and nutritionist's and magazine's and health report's ideal diet. You know what happened. I gained weight. I gained and gained, until I was 224 lbs. I had honestly put all of my willpower and strength into it and failed.

This was February 15, 2002 when I decided that I was destined to be obese. Then, my mother came up to me and told me about low carb. I figured, well, I've done all the normal stuff, why not try this. I was very cynical. You see to the left that I lost about 60 lbs. My mother and I talked about our heritage (Our ancestors are from Southwestern Germany) and our diet when I was young, and you know what? We were all eating fairly low carb until we started reading about low-fat. I really believe our heritage is connected to our diets, and this has caused me to think about different diets and why we need to accept that not everyone can diet the same way. My husband is 6' and 150 lbs. He eats carbs from 5:30 in the morning until 9:00 at night. He never has a problem, in fact, he's lost a couple of times and had to gain back. His heritage is completely different from mine.

Anyway, my point in this is that I think America's problem is an overbearing, rich, aggressive diet industry. Who do you think got that whole food pyramid started? 6-8 servings of bread per day! 4-5 servings of fruit and vegetables. Vegetables yes, fruit??? I hate fruit, so I'm biased, however, fruit is terrible for me.

Anyway, I'll get off my soap box and let you read the other's opinions.


:wave: Amber

[Trainerdan]

Levi,

I feel that your question is brutally honest and blunt. There is a saying over here in America "A teaspoon of sugar makes the medicine go down." ... So, your questions was received wrong.

But, it did provoke a flurry of activity and response (emotional and otherwise), which DOES make it a good post. As others have covered, I think TACT is the key here, but seeing that your English (as good as it is) is not your first language, that is understandable.

I will add that I didn't enjoy being dragged into your defense. I agree that if you put in the work and dedication to change your body into what you want, then you have a right to show it.

BUT, my avatar is there because I was overweight at one point. Anyone who cares to read my story in the SUCCESS STORIES can see that. I like to think of my avatar as inspiration, but if it offends people, I will put my clothes on.

FWIW, swimming shorts and a SPEEDO (I actually thought they were posing trunks) are two different worlds, but, having been to Europe, I know that Speedos are the accepted norm in bathing wear. You won't catch me on here wearing anything smaller than what you see in the avatar I am currently using.

The bodybuilding subculture is hard to understand to those who aren't in that world, and 5% bodyfat is quite an achievement. I respect you for getting to it. But, it IS hard for those outside of "the game" to understand why someone would subject themselves to it. That is not meant to offend anyone here that is not into BB.

It is a two-way street. BBers can't be expected to impose THIER values on those who are not BBers. But those who are not BBers also should not condemn those who choose to pursue it. It is a personal decision. Done properly, bodybuilding can be a lifelong pursuit and part of a healthy active lifestyle. I know of a few 70 + men who work out at my gym, and I see them as inspiration. I HOPE I look as good as they do when I get there ...

Levi, I understand that in BB circles 251 at 20% is considered fat, BUT in medical standards 20% is normal for men, and is a fit level for women. I plan to see 250 when I bulk this autumn, and it may be hard for most to understand, but there IS evidence that supports the value of this to those who have the pursuit of gaining as much muscle mass as possible. My ULTIMATE goal is to be a lean 230 - 235 with 9% bodyfat, which I will then maintain.

Pointing fingers on a forum that IS a support forum for LC dieting may not have been a wise choice of action.

This discussion is a good one, and a few years ago, I would have been pissed too. BUT, I will say that it took someone close to me to insult me that got me into a mode where I wanted to change myself ... and I have never looked back.

SOOOOO ... to answer your question Levi, I gained my weight originally through the nasty combination of inactivity, fTV watchinng, lack of exercise, fast food/large portions served at restauraunts here, and weekend drinking binges. I also lay blame to the Amarillo Cheese Fries at Lone Star, which I would order woth DOUBLE dipping sauce. :shudders:

Americans have a close relationship to their automobiles, and drive most anywhere. When I visited Europe, the first thing I noticed (in Dublin) was the relative absence of overweight people. Then, I also noticed the large number of people using bicycles as a mode of transportation.

Could be a connection??

[Atkid]

Levi -


Why are you asking the question?


You are on a low carb forum.

Common sense would tell you that if we are all low carbing, we did not all get here through consuming too much protein.


If you are low carbing, then you know the effects of high carbing. You'll know what that does to people.

I think your question was mischevous and serves no informative purpose on the forum.

If I need to spell it out, I will.


We are the way we are through : High carbing, doctors telling us that we should eat less fat, exercising and poor diet meaning we see no results and then throw the towel in which means sitting around eating comfort high-carb food and gaining more weight, failure to understand the science of our bodies with doctors not too far behind us, repeated failures at weight loss and being catapulted up the scales.

If a male gets to 300 pounds, your question seems to imply that they have let themselves get there.

Do you think we choose to be this way? Maybe some of us don't notice the weight creeping on, but many of us have fought tooth and nail. I have.

I have battled for a number of years but the weight has beaten me. I have not reached this stage without a fight.

Your question implied that we consent to our situations. This is the narrow-minded view of the general public, promulgated by doctors. They tell us that is we just exercise more and eat low fat, the weight will disappear. If we do not, then we have nobody to blame but ourselves.

On a low carb forum, I cannot believe that this needs to be spelled out.

I think you do not need it spelled out. I think you knew precisely what you were doing when you asked the question.

Whatever your mother tongue, tact crosses all territories. Even if you said it badly, I think it is clear what you wanted to say.

A cursory glance at the website would have led you to links to answer your own question. So you are not that interested in the answer.

I think you were frankly being mean.

[Kristine]

I won't comment on Levi's original post: everyone else has sufficiently flamed. But I've really enjoyed people's points on why we (as a culture) are obese.

My perspective:

Look at all the things we do because we "have to:" pay the bills, drag ourselves out of bed early for work, change the kitty litter, brush our teeth... generally, we don't complain much about it (well, except for the kitty litter. :) ) We just DO it because we HAVE to. Sometimes we slack, but it doesn't pay off: paying your bills late results in paying extra in interest, showing up late for work will get you yelled at, not brushing your teeth feels crappy and leads to cavities and a diminished social life... :)

... so why is it so hard to make nutrition and fitness a priority? Because we can *get away with it*, sometimes for decades, with minimal consequences. Your boss doesn't really care if you gain weight, your dentist doesn't really care, your friends and family (hopefully!) don't care... if you're slowly gaining weight, there's little concequence in your day-to-day business.

The key to maintaining good health and fitness means making it a priority every day - like brushing your teeth and getting to work - because you feel you have no choice. And when you're new to it, it's a *huge* change that offers *no* immediate gratification. Working against your best efforts are the cacophony of junk food advertising and a sedentary lifestyle culture. It has to be the most difficult change one can voluntarily undergo.

...which is why so many of you inspire me. :)

[TeriDoodle]

Kristine, you've hit on a point that I'd like to elaborate on.

Levi's post was originally posted in the TDC. It offended them and many others, which doesn't surprise me one bit.

It hurts me to think that any member would be insensitive to another member, when we're all here just doing the very best we can. But this goes double for our friends in the TDC because I think of them as our true heroes and I am so very proud of each and every one of them...AND ALL OF US!!

This board is wonderful and we all know it. It amazes me every day. Please don't allow anyone to take away what we have all worked so hard to build, and we have every reason in the world to hold our heads very, very high.

[kodi10]

Being asked in this forum why I am so obese does not really inflame me. It puzzles me a bit. You see, I think that some people who do not have a weight problem truly believe that the problem is all a matter of will power. That is so untrue. I quit smoking when others can't. It is not will power at all.

For me, I now believe, thanks to Atkins, that it is an addiction. And like an addiction (mine to carbs) I have to fight that demon every day of my life. But it is not the same for Levi, for example. If somone has no addition to carbs then to turn down that extra portion, or that baked potato does not compare to the challenge of doing so if you are addicted to carbs. Anymore than it is the same for me and the alcoholic to say no to that drink, or anymore than comparing me to a drug addict when enticed by a barbituate.


The "just-push-yourself-away-from-the-table" mentality works fine for someone with no addition to what they are pushing from. I have absolutely no problem when "pushing away" from drugs. I even was able to push away from cigarettes. But pushing away from carbs has been a 35 year struggle. This addiction is much greater than the cigs for me.

So why am I obsese and Levi is not, genetics with a predisposition to carb addition.

Of course, when one tried to solve this problem it certainly doesn't help that the world revolves around the low fat diets, which created such a dieting problem to begin with. Perhaps one day the food industry will open their jaundice eye and see that LC is a viable market.

[In_Control]

Why do some people do drugs? Don't they know it's bad for them?
Why do some people drink too much? Don't they know they'll get a hang-over, or become an alcohlic?
Why do some people continually get in abusive relationships? Don't they learn to stop doing this after the 1st, 2nd, 3rd divorce or breakup?
Why do some people smoke? Now I KNOW they KNOW it's bad for them!
Why do some people continually OVERSPEND and get into debt? Don't they know that they could get into a whole heap of trouble? Not to mention the headaches and woe!
Why do some people LIE and CHEAT and STEAL over and over again? Don't they know they could go to jail, or how that hurts their relationships with others?
Why don't students study when they know finals are coming? Don't they know that they could FAIL or do very poorly? Don't they know it could affect the rest of their lives?
Why do people have numerous children when they can't support them? Don't they know better?

Okay, hopefully you get the point. We are here on this earth to learn! We all fail miserably at some point in this most important journey. But what is WONDERFUL about "mankind" is we try to get better! EVERYONE, yes EVERYONE, (even the lean mean fighting machines) have "weaknesses!" I believe God gave us weaknesses as a blessing!!! Yes, a blessing!!!

Everytime I've worked hard to overcome a weakness (may be my anger, or WEIGHT), I learn that God is there waiting to help me. And he does!!!! What an invaluable lesson to learn. That there is a real power out there we can use in our lives. To learn that there is a higher being WHO IS PERFECT and all knowing and he cares/loves poor pathetic WEAK --- and fat, ME! What a wonderful lesson he teaches me, in my weakness, to rely on him and myself and overcome!

Hey, if someone all powerful and loving like that cares for me, and a drug addict, a liar, cheater, overspender, theft, etc... we all must be pretty special despite our weaknesses. Wouldn't you say?

This forum is a prime example of how we learn to help each other too. Levi, you probably have a wealth of knowledge on the subject of muscle building. You could really help someone who wants to know how to get rid of body fat. I'm slowly beginning to have a lot of knowledge on LCing. There are others in the world who have a wealth of knowledge on various things. Those talents can be used with love, to help others! I think our weaknesses teach us to be more tolerant of each other and to have compassion too. ALL wonderful traits to obtain!

Didn't mean to get "religious" but you asked why. Hopefully I answered!

[Lisa N]

I think that no matter what the reasons are for being overweight or obese, the important thing is that everyone here is trying to do something about it and for many, this is the first time in their lives that they have found something that really works for them. I applaud everyone who has not given up, but instead searched until they found a solution and continue with this WOE despite the negative attitudes and opinions of others. True strength lies not in how much weight you can lift or how hard your body is or even in your body fat percentage; it lies in how well you perservere in the face of obstacles and to all those who have perservered, I say bravo and well done!

[elizz]

Levi,
First of all, if you have to preface a comment with "this posting is not intended to flame anyone" then it is probably a good idea to keep it to yourself. Secondly, American women and men are beautiful people - inside and out. I think it is completely shallow to judge a whole nation of people based on their weight. I have been to Germany, by the way, but I will not make any sweeping generalizations based on my experiences with a few less than desirable people.

I want to commend everyone with their amazing restraint and their insightful replies. Your responses show you not only possess outer beauty but inner beauty and strength as well. Sadly for Levi - beauty seems to only be skin deep.

[destro]

There have been a lot of excellent and informative answers to Levi's post, so I will not try to recapitulate them nor will I go into a lengthy autobiography: My opinion is that FOR MYSELF asking myself Levi's question really helped: I had to learn WHY I was a compulsive overeater and why I became one rather late in life (comparatively speaking).

I think that becoming badly overweight is often a response: perhaps to medications, perhaps to disease, perhaps to metabolism, and in my own case, and I speak not for anyone else, a response to chronic depression and also a true desire to keep people away from me. I did not want anyone to try to admire me or to get too close to me.

As an obese woman, I have often been bemused by the things that people have said to me. They ASSUME that I must be "stupid".

Levi, I wrote a book and it was a pretty popular book. The publisher asked me for a photograph of myself to put on the dust jacket. How I hated that! I did not want that to happen at all, but I dutifully got a photograph taken and sent it to the publisher.

They DID NOT include the photograph on the book; they feared that it would harm sales (although the book had nothing to do with body, diet, or body image). Obesity remains a social stigma in the USA as well as in Germany. I think that it is not asking too much, however, for this forum to deal with each of us politely and respectfully and realize that we are all here because we want to feel and look better and also to be as healthy as we can be.

I am not happy about being obese and I am clearly doing something about it. I had to look not only at my diet, but at my psyche and my personal history to start to understand something about why I am obese.

But first I did have to ask myself the very same question that Levi asked: why did I get obese? What was the pay-off for me?

I cannot comment, not knowing, about the different reasons people get obese in different countries. But I do think that one key factor, which has already been mentioned, is that I truly believe that there is superior medical care in the European countries.

When I was in Paris on the Paris metro I would often feel sorry that I was the only fat person there and reflect on what negative feelings the people might be having about me.

I live in a city that has recently been declared the fifth fattest city in the USA.

In short, I agree that obesity is pandemic. I have read that there is growing overweight in countries such as Japan. I would imagine that might be attributed to a high-carb, Westernized diet and to the proliferation of American Fast Food all over the world.

Natalie

[OneLowCarb]

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :bash:

[heyjude607]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm with you OneLowCarb..."There's a song in there somewhere"... "dodo dodo, dodo dodo" Welcome, you have just entered the twilight zone!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"A new me is right around the corner."

[deb_o]

Levi, I didn't start to try to lose weight until I could answer that very question for myself. I don't wish to go into everything here, but my weight issues revolved around self esteem issues. You could say they were pretty much one and the same. I can tell you I deliberately put a wall of fat between myself and the world around me. I can't explain why things changed for me, but I'm glad they did!
Low carbing isn't "just" for losing weight. It is a healthy eating lifestyle!
Your picture shows you have worked very hard on defining your body. Good for you! What you are wearing isn't any different from what we see at pools and on beaches every summer.
Take care, and welcome here.

[greg5756]

I am not to concerned with levi's post. I believe alot has to do with the American Medical Associations (AMA) pyrimid however you spell of food for a healthy diet. We all know as LC's that this has to be updated. By the way I believe it has been proven that North Americans work more hours than most country's. We are the creators of many fast food franchise's We settle for fast and convient meals then came super size and North Americans beign thrifty figured out 20 cents more for large or extra large I don't believe income has anything to do with this. I believe it is lifestyle North Americans have to give up something. We will not give up work we cherish our time so if it is easier to stop by Mc D's or order a pizza we do I think we are of the mind set that we can always change and I also believe that obeseity really went rampant when North America realized how bad smoking was for you and many people quit. with that you gain lots and lots of weight. Wait until Germany cracks down on tobacco like North America did you will see weight gain then.

[Paulette]

Hi, Levi. I'm not offended. I think a better, more positive and helpful question, though, would be why are Europeans generally more fit than North Americans? We have all heard about the French paradox, but what about Germany? Don't you drink a lot of beer? And your'e famous for your tortes! What's that about? Do tell, Levi.

Paulette

[destro]

Levi and everyone else:
You might want to read the NY Times article, which has been posted in two topics in the Media forum for a long, but really intriguing, speculation (which I agree with) that really does address Levi's question.

Natalie

[tamarian]

Originally posted by Paulette
I think a better, more positive and helpful question, though, would be why are Europeans generally more fit than North Americans?

From my experience living in Europe, you have to do a lot of leg work, and the public transit systems there are much better than ours in North America, so they depend less on cars.

I lived for years without a car, just using bus, metro, train and walking. If I needed to hook up my phone, I had to go there personally, you can't do much through the phone compared to what you can do here.

In addition, there's a commitment to tradition in Europe. Yes, they have all the fast food chains, but many resist them. Not for health reasons, just for the sense of traditional food.

Many of the traditional foods are fattening, but they are real, and "less" processed than what we take as convenience foods.

The paradox may just be in eating real food, and being more active. North America is cursed by it's love of fake food, and striving for technological convenience, in food and daily life chores.

Wa'il

[fiona]

Interesting points being raised here.

It all boils down to …. LOL! here I go again … balance.

There is nothing wrong with abundance. Those without cars yearn and lonnnng for the day they will have their own car. If I appreciate that not having a car has its advantages (I am forced to exercise more and burn more calories in simply carrying out daily tasks – I don’t need to “work-out” and suffer the pains that follow; I don’t need to work so hard to be able to afford one) then my desire for owning one is reduced. If the benefits of owning a car is all I can think of then I will push myself to the limit to get that car. At the end of the day are the sacrifices I am making to own the car balancing the benefits of owning one?

The same goes for food – am I balancing what I NEED with what I want. Figuring out why I personally am not getting the balance right for me and working on that is the key.

What made me fat was not making the correct adjustment as technology progressed. Not getting the balance between exercise and rest (TV, especially with remote control / Computer as opposed to manual typewriter) correct.

Take care,

[joanie]

...I just can't resist! Since I am a very opinionated person whose mouth has gotten her in trouble on more than one occasion, and who does not usually sugarcoat things...I'll just leave it that my opinion has been well represented in very eloquent terms by the other very intelligent people on this thread!

Levi, I will say this...we Americans aren't all SOOOO obese! I am the only obese person in my family. My two sisters are normal weight, my parents are very slightly overweight, and my grandparents weren't large, either. My husbands family is all of normal weight.

I went to Paris in 1999 and saw some fat French people (GASP!) And some thin Americans! (Double gasp!) I get annoyed when people paint with a broad brush, and miss the obvious. Are some Americans fat? Hell, yeah. Are some addicted to carbs or other things? Of course. Do some eat too much? I'll let you answer that one. Fill in the circle completely and use a Number 2 pencil!

I will say this...I am treated like I'm "smarter" now that I'm encroaching on a normal weight. I was never treated poorly before, but now no one ever talks down to me anymore, and I like that. I like the way I'm treated when I shop (probably why I'm doing so much shopping these days!!) and I like the extra male attention I get. And (and this is bad) I like looking down my nose at people who weren't so nice before...!

Enough said. Not as eloquent as the rest of you, but there it is.

[chaconm]

I could not resist posting. I am working in Germany and have found that all the major stores carry clothes in my my size and much larger. There must be a great demand here or this would not be true. I also see obese people here daily - just as many as in the US, so I assume you are just not looking around. Perhaps it is all the potatoes and heavy bread, as well as lack of fresh vegetables on the menu's in restaurants. I was in the hospital for three days and was served pasta, bread, potatoes and a lot of other white stuff. Very little meat, vegies or fruit. Maybe you better re-examine your premise that Germans are not obese and can eat the high carbs without problems.

I gained weight in a very depressing time in my life and am working to get rid of it, not an easy task in the land of high carbs, but I will succeed.

chaconm

[wannbeslim]

Levi,

This is actually an interesting question - one which many people have probably tried to answer themselves. I know that you are well-meaning, but the people on this forum are the ones trying to DO something about their weight issues, and hence may appear defensive. As you have seen, the answers to the questions vary widely since obesity does not have a single cause.

First, it is important to understand something about the American culture. We are by and large descended from people that were agrigarian. That meant that one worked physically and hard from sun up until sundown. Meals were huge because they needed to be in order to supply adequate calories for farm labor. One was never allowed to waste food - partly because there might come a time when there was not adequate food to eat. We were as children instructed to clean our plates. Nevertheless, foods were farm food - wholesome and pure - lots of vegatables in the summer, smoked and salted meats in the winter. We canned it ourselves so it didn't have fillers and even the sugars were made from maple sap and it was only what could be tapped in the winter. We couldn't buy store sugar as it was too expensive. Snacks were not given. Or consisted of meager servings.

Then our society changed. It became more urban with people working in place for long hours. When I was working I worked at a desk for 60-70 hours a week and only two weeks of vacation - please compare that to your work hours in Germany. I rode a train to work. Physical activity consisted of the walk to and from the train each day. Moreover, we became a land of plenty with all kinds of foods that were at one time "special treats" readily available for daily consumption. In short, what you have in part is a clash between our cultural heritage and modern life.

Second, there are physical causes for obesity which we are only just beginning to understand. Genetics, viruses and other factors may influence why certain people become obese.

Third, so-called "health concious americans" may have actually hurt themselves by following trends that may be unhealthy. Vegitarians may overeat to get adequate protien if they don't understand what they are doing, propaganda against meat in the 1950's - 1980's may also have hurt, popularity of supposedly healthy, but high starch diets have influenced our eating habits (i.e. chinese and italian cooking).

Four, we are event society. Americans love to get together, but these events rarely involve a high level of activity unless one chooses to participate. Thus, we go and watch a ball game - and of course eat. We have BBQ's which center around eating. We meet at a restaurant for a nice meal. Etc. In areas where the "activities" involve physical activity more and where the climate allows for physical activity year round (trust me in the great plains when it is 20 degrees below 0 F, you don't go outside unless you have to), we are thinner and more fit. Food, and high carb food in particular, do not play as important a part in our entertainment.

Hope this helps

j

[Pete]

Levi,

Its a good question, one I think many North Americans have pondered. As you have realized, when you ask a pointed question in this forum, you some times get a defensive answer. It goes with the territory.

I think wannabeslim's answer is a good one. If I can add to it, the work life in North America, particularly in major cities and financial centres can be quite "desk" intense, with little time for some good excercise. And we definitely are an "event society". Couple that with bad eating habits with a heavy emphasis on carbohydrates, excessive alcohol consumption, and a poor understanding of nutrition and you have a recipe for disaster.

I tend to agree with your view on North Americans. Having travelled to Europe many times, my informal observation is that we North Americans do seem physcially bigger. I think that's part of the issue too. Being overweight is a relative measurement. When more people around you are overweight, can freely buy clothes tailored to being overweight, rationalize the weigh scale as not being all that relevant, people tend to ignore their own reality.

[wannbeslim]

Levi,

I have had a few more minutes to reflect on your question. I addressed some of my thoughts on why Americans (I cannot speak for my Canadian counterpart having not lived there) are overweight. I do think climate and genetics (i.e. you didn't survive on the frontier without an ability to bulk up) play a role. But your question also posed another anomily in american society - the fitness extreme - either we are ultra fit or obese. Well, not quite, but there do seem to be these extremes in place.

First of all, there are more than 250 million of us so no one stereotype will fit. But what you may find true is that many Americans are competitive and disciplined with a high level of work ethic. This can cause "over fitness" or obesity at it's extremes. A person tied to his desk all day doesn't pay much attention to what he is eating so long as the bottom line is taken care of. Then you have the fitness extreme, which is essentially the same thing, but applied to one's physique. The energy that some apply to work is applied to staying fit. Thus, you have this apparent dichotomy, which is actually very consistent.

Again it is cultural. I still think all of this stems from Americans having to work so hard to eek a living out of the untamed soil. We were conditioned to make something from nothing. From the frontiering spirit it became the rags to riches story. This is so ingrained in our cultural personna.

Thanks for listening and putting up with my typos.

j

[tamarian]

Rhollmer,

You post has been removed for violating our user agreement.

Wa'il

[Pete]

I didn't think Rhollmer's post should have been removed. It was revealing by itself. I think that was kind editing on your part Wa'il, if you know what I mean.

[Rhollmer]

No no - I can understand why that post was pulled. It may have been a little too poignant for some tastes. I just get a little over zealous when I see people that are trying to unfairly critize others. People come to this board and lay it all out there for people to see, as intimate as weight control is for many people, then some kind of person has to come and flaunt their physique. That is a nice physique that Levi is sporting, however I would challenge Levi to be as brave about being as honest and open in a public forum as everyone here seems to be. Just because you have a good physique does NOT mean that the rest of his life is in as perfect an order. Get my drift?

I apologize for the hasty posting and I will try and contain myself within the rules of this board. :wave:

[sms1]

My thoughts on Levi's Post...

I think that the question that was posed was valid and thought provoking. The replies to the post were enlightening.

When I first saw the way the question was phrased, I was also concerned, however I believe what some folks are taking as a "flame" is in reality a legitimate question phrased clumsily.

I studied German for 5 years (many years ago!). At the time, I could write and speak fairly well, but NOBODY would ever mistake me for a native! I could use the language, but I was not able to say things the way I would have said them in English. I could not be subtle. I could not be elegant. I could not be tactful. I could only really communicate basic ideas and concepts and hope that the person I was speaking to understood my limitations. And this is easier done face to face, rather than looking at words on a screen.
Consider your conversations in really good ethnic eateries(Chineese, Thai, Indian, etc.)-many of the wait staff speak English, but their construction of the spoken words may not match the way a native speaker would say them.
I would suggest that everyone remember that this board has an International following, and we should not take offence where none was intended.
As to the photograph, while that swimsuit would not be typically seen in the US or Canada, it would certainly be more popular on the beaches of Europe, the Med, and the Carribean.
Levi has been LC'ing for a couple of years and it has worked well for him. If I had been working to lose weight and define muscle and I achieved what Levi did, I might be inclined to show off my physique a bit also. (Note to all- that is not my objective- personally I wish to drop enough weight to be healthy and "more normally sized". I still have a LONG WAY TO GO ! ;)

I have gone on longer than intended, so I must bid you all a good night...

[Karla]

There is a satellite channel called Deutsche Welle, which is broadcast from Berlin all over the world so Germans who are living or travelling outside Germany can keep up with the news, etc. at home.

Much of the programming is, of course, in German, but the news and several other shows are also broadcast in English and Spanish at different times of the day.

My DH and I have a satellite dish and we like to watch these shows because we learn a lot about European news and attitudes that we never see on the news in the U.S. (We used to watch the news from Canada until the CBC scrambled the satellite channels! But that's another story)

Last night we were watching a show called Germany Today and one of the guests was a doctor who talked about the growing number of obese adults and children in Germany, and the dramatic increases in diabetes, hypertension, etc.

So Levi, we aren't the only ones with this problem, and it probably has the same cause, because Coke and McDonalds and high carb, high sugar junk food in general is spreading across the globe like a plague. Even the French are succumbing to the convenience of fast foods. I just hope the Europeans skip the low fat nonsense and figure out that it's the excess carbs causing the problem.

Karla

[RawSienna]

:mad: At first I was "incited"...just as Levi intended me to be...
:confused: Then I was confused....is that REALLY him in the picture?
:rolleyes: Then I rolled my eyes at his second post...getting a gut reaction and instinct that he was really enjoying the hubbub he caused.
:) Then I had to smile at all the wonderful and insiteful answers...and how well all of you restrained yourselfs (not that all of you had too, but I'm sure some did)
:hyper: I was secretly cheering on some of you...you tell it like it is girls/guys!
:D And laughing at the oh-so-funny "gotcha's" posted by some (loved your post Atkid)....

Lesson learned....
Listen :read: first...speak MUCH later!
:clap: You ALL rock...even you Levi!

:wave:

[Zzoom]

Levi,

I couldnt resist adding a post even though the previous post was a month ago...

Being British I would like to think I can be regarded as vaguely neutral. I have worked for both US and German companies and from what I saw I don't think there is that much difference. However, a LOT more Germans seem to smoke thab Americans (and Europe in general) which I am sure is related.

On refelction I think I would prefer to go quickly with a heart attack than die slowly from cancer.

Zzoom

[Rhollmer]

Good point but I think that Levi is long since slithered away from this board.

[PoofieD]

Why is north america taking such a hit.
Germany IS NOT full of skinny body building levi's. quite the opposite.
Holland also fills its people full of white breads and potato dishes.
My brother spent two years there and came home from being a slim young man to an overweight young man. Its happened to SEVERAL others I have known in the same region.
Fact is.. in North America or Europe we are fighting the same battle. Even the French are catching up as they start to fill in with carbs that are too easy to digest and save as Fat.
Levi KNOWS the answer to his question.
I was waiting for him to explain why his assumption was all the same.. and WORSE for the women.
I know. not really the thread topic.
But Levi has plenty of German's to ASk about why they are obese. He really does. North America is not the creator nor the soul owner of this problem
We screw up our hormonal system and eat foods that are too easy to produce and then save on the body as Fat.
Most of us "north American" ladies have DIETED ourselves to fatness. Trying against all odds with low fat high carb diest endorsed by the government and supported by big business with their cheaply produceds diet foods..
LOL.. My ex husband just bought some "french pastries" made of puff pastry and coated with cinnamon and sugar.. and they were touted as being "healthy" according to the AHA....
With information like that.. HOW can we possibly win the battle?

[Scarlet]

Levi

I am Irish but am living in Germany with my BF, so I think I can point out some things that you as a native german may not see.

1Firstly, fruit and vegetables are about a billion times cheaper in Germany. I can get broccoli, cauliflower etc. for about 50 cent in my local Lidl. I can get a basket of fruits for a similar price . In Chicago for instance, one apple costs about $1. My brothers lived on fast food when they were students in the US simply because healthy food is so expensive there

2 The low fat fad did not sweep through Germany as much as through the US. So Germans kept on having their salad with real, high fat non sugar filled sauce

3 I don't know where you live, but I see loads of OBESE ppl here. However, in Germany ppl seems to suddendly get fat when they reach their 30's or 40's. I theorise that this is because they eat enough good stuff in the form of Wurst and veggies to protect them from all the sugar they consume, but in mid life their pancreas and hormonal system has had enough and can't take anymore, even though they are still having their protein

4 The German govt protects its poor and unemployed. My friend has been unemployed for 11 months and receives 580 euros a month plus a rent allowance. Given that food is cheap anyway, he won't be forced to eat high carb gunk , EVER

5 There are loadds of cheap exercise facilities in Germany in the form of swimming pools. I don't think this is the case in the US

6 Everyone has health insurance so can go to as many docs as they want if they are concerned about their weight. This may not solve the problem, but there ARE some enlightened docs around


Oh and BTW Germany has the highest BMI in Europe. I really don't know where you get the idea that there are no REALLY fat Germans. When I was in Turkey recently everyone at the tourist resort catered to Germans, selling Wurst, automatically talking German to you even before you opened your mouth etc. Well, when I went shopping I was told that I was slim because most of the sellers market catered to Germans and they are [direct quote] " big".

[RCFletcher]

Hi Levi!

Well, firstly I’ve lived in Germany and let’s be honest; there are plenty of fat people there too! Secondly I’m British not American and over the last 40 years or so I’ve seen British people getting fatter and fatter. I have my own theory so here goes:

When I was a young boy in the post war ‘50’s most meals consisted of meat, potatoes and at least three different vegetables. This is typical British cooking – lots of vegetables. In the past 50 years however British cooking has become much more international. The Americans gave us McDonald’s and all its clones – French fries (carbohydrates) with a bit of meat in a bun (more carbohydrates); the Italians gave us pasta dishes (carbohydrates with sauce) and pizza (carbohydrates with crap on top); Chinese and Indian take away places opened everywhere (rice=carbohydrates with bits of meat, often coated with carbohydrates in sauce). As a child I drank tea, milk, and water we couldn’t afford soft drinks loaded with sugar. Now they are everywhere.

I live in Belarus (Weissrusland to you) and people here are also generally slim. Again, no international cuisine and lots of vegetables.

Maybe German culture is more resistant to change than the British one was – but if it is not then you can look forward to Germans getting fatter and fatter too, just like we Brits have!

Actually this was a useful posting and has caused many people to think – never a bad thing. Well done Levi!

Regards,

Robert

[jarmin88]

Your question is powerful and emotive but I think there are elements of this that need to be discussed. There IS a wave of obesity starting from the US but spreading over the whole globe - English speaking people then industrialised first.

No-one is immune - I recently read reports in the French media that obesity in French children was growing at an alarming rate. Eurpeans are behind in this but we're still following the same trend - this is initiated in the US but we're all ending up in the same place.

The low carb theory offers some interesting solutions as to what may be going wrong despite peopl's best efforts.

My candidates for US-style obesity are the following:


Hydrogenated oils
sweets
cola drinks
artificail sweetners
high carb diets


Put more simply I think its obesity caused by an increase in sugar and flour (refined) aggravated by US style consumerism (advertising and centralised distribution) and aggravated by a misguided attempt to live healthily (margarine, hydrogenated oils, breakfast cerals, cutting meat and butter and yo-yo dieting)

The problem has the feel of an avalanche because government advice merely feeds the original problem instead of curing it. The brutal truth is that as a species we're more and more removed from our habitat and our natural foods and the powers that be won't challenge the food industry vested interests

[Fietser]

Originally posted by fridayeyes
Hi, Levi,

Having dispensed with the shinai, I can now proffer the other mode of enlightenment. :)

Your post violated two basic tenets of politeness: familiarity and tact.

Familiarity is the idea that the better you know someone, the more personal the questions you may ask without offending.

Tact is the ability to know what is likely to be offensive or provocative and to choose your words so as to present the most benign interpretation.

When familiarity is low, tact must be high or offense is given.
Friday

Perhaps the overreaction of the Americans was caused by their sensitivity to the word obese.
After all, this is a nation where e.g. the word menstruation isn't said out loud, but referred to as the TOM (time of the month). Or when you're blind, you're visually challenged. Instead of obese, they are gravitationally challenged.

Frankly, I consider myself to be obese, as I have 35,5% body fat (measured again today).
I don't know the tables for BF% but I just did a test for Body Mass Index and it results in 31,2.
The table reads the following
Lower than 18: underweight
18-24,9: normal
25-29,9: overweight
30-39,9: obese (obesitas)
>39,9: morbidly obese (morbide obesitas)

Luckily they are a bit off the mark as I have a lot of lean body mass (around 50 kg out of 78) and I'm in the overweight group..

For years I'd react very emotionally when people would have said to me that I'm obese, but a couple of things cured me...
1 a visit to the USA, where I saw more obese people in 1 hour than in all of my life in Europe or Australia/NZ
2 a love of sports.. so I may be obese, but I'm good at cycling and love climbing mountains..

To me, the main cause of obesity in the USA is probably the huge servings you get in restaurants loaded with the wrong kind of foods. Same for the size of packages.
I was startled by the lack of good and fresh vegetables and fruit, which are also very expensive in the USA.
My background is a bit similar to what the others say: told to eat everything on the plate because of the starving kids in Africa. I would skip breakfast and lunch, so my only meal of the day would be dinner which I didn't even like that much...
Now I'm trying to eat 6 meals a day of 300 kcals and feel stuffed.. but interestingly also hungry once the next meal comes around..

Be grateful that the culture in Europe (Germany) is still a fairly healthy one, but this is something which unfortunately is changing rapidly. I'm seeing some women in my fitness club that could easily be mistaken for American women.. however, I'm very happy they take the steps to do something about it.. Being very obese is less socially accepted in Europe as well, but being a tad overweight is not something we obsess over...

Hope i didn't offense anyone again, I just wanted to say what I experienced during my travels in the USA of approx. 1 year... btw, Americans are among the friendliest people I ever met (except for Canadians, New Zealanders, Ozzies and Cubans which come equal or before).

[Talon]

After all, this is a nation where e.g. the word menstruation isn't said out loud, but referred to as the TOM (time of the month). Or when you're blind, you're visually challenged. Instead of obese, they are gravitationally challenged.

ROFLOL! I am not sure what part of the US you visited, but I can emphatically say that this is not true! TOM is just easier to type. :)

I was startled by the lack of good and fresh vegetables and fruit, which are also very expensive in the USA.

"Expensive" is a realative term - I don't find the fruits and vegatables to be expensive. Nor do I find them not to be fresh!

To me, the main cause of obesity in the USA is probably the huge servings you get in restaurants loaded with the wrong kind of foods. Same for the size of packages.

Yep, I agree that is a contributing factor.

[RCFletcher]

Hi Fietser,

What surprised me about the reaction of my American cousins was not how easily they were offended but their extreme politness and their honest attempts to give an answer.

What hurts about the question is not the word 'obese', it was that the question was asked to a group of people who,realising they are obese, have decided to do something about it.

This thread has caused a lot of soul searching; and that is not such a bad thing. We have all asked ourselves why we are obese (or fat or whatever), we have all decided it is because of too many carbohydrates and we're all trying to do something about it.

Good for us!

Regards,

Robert (An obese Brit.)

[doreen T]

originally posted by RCFletcher
What hurts about the question is not the word 'obese', it was that the question was asked to a group of people who,realising they are obese, have decided to do something about it.Indeed.

I realise that some of our readers are seeing this discussion for the first time. So, for their benefit, I'd like to point out that this thread was originally posted by levi in our Triple Digits forum. He did not post it in the Research area, he did not post it in the General area. He specifically targeted our members who are struggling to lose 100+ lbs.

Just so folks have some perspective on the earliest replies here.

Doreen

[Lisa N]

Originally posted by Fietser
I was startled by the lack of good and fresh vegetables and fruit, which are also very expensive in the USA.



I guess it depends on where you shop, what's in season and what you are looking for. I never have trouble finding good quality fresh fruits and veggies that are in season for a reasonable price. If I want to buy a fruit or vegetable that isn't in season, of course I'm going to pay more for it as they usually have to be shipped in from Chile or Mexico when things are out of season here. For example...I live in Michigan and wouldn't even think of trying to buy oranges in the summertime...wrong season for them; they would be a dollar a piece and probably not very tasty, but in the winter months, I can get a 5 pound bag of juicy, tasty Florida oranges for about 2 dollars. On the other hand, in the summer I can get canteloupe for about a dollar a piece, but in the winter months they would be at least triple that. If you're buying what's in season, the prices, quality and availability are quite good...at least where I live.
Expensive is a relative term. I won't argue that it costs more to eat meat and fresh fruits and veggies than macaroni and cheese and spahgetti, but then again, how much is your health worth?

[Fietser]

Thanks for the replies, I saw too late the topic was a 'dead horse' (started in July) but since I'm new on the board .. started a keto diet 4 weeks ago and did 2 carbo loads in 2 weekends.. actually I think I'm borderline diabetic and now I'm not used to eating that many carbs anymore I actually don't even like carboloading in the weekend and will do a daily mini-carboload instead.

I have another question, where is Adipositas 101?

I've bought Lyle McDonalds ketogenic dieting book but haven't started reading yet (busy, busy), but I am currently quite concerned about my metabolism. As I never really recorded my food intake, I have no idea how much my typical input would be, but I'd be surprised if it was more than 2000 kcal on a daily basis. I just was a terribly irregular eater... with alternatively carbo loading and starving myself. Yet, everyone always supposes I'm eating way too much and I've started to believe the same, without exactly knowing whether it was true or not (I never dieted because my mom said it was no use, but instead I just wouldn't eat all day). Isn't this dieting stuff maddeningly complex? Eat too little and your metabolism slows down, eat too much and it speeds up but you still put on weight, etc etc..
A last observation.. there was a nation-wide research done in the NLs regarding food habits. It was concluded that we would all be overweight if it wasn't for the regular (cycling) exercise most of us got.. that tipped the scale towards being healthy enough. Hence I refuse to buy a car, unless I'd be forced to.. so far I am not... so am forced to cycle anywhere or at least to the railway station...

[Fietser]

I'm reading the thread now and thought that I forgot to add that I also saw more Americans that were extremely thin and fit than I see in my own country.
Hence I looked into my stories which I wrote about my cycling accomplishments. I participated in Paris-Brest-Paris in 1999 but DNFed after 700 K (it's a 750 mi non-stop ride where you hav