How did you become SO obese?

[platypusd]

well i am a couple of weeks in now and am officially an Atkins convert. 10 pounds have melted off like butter (despite my increased butter intake :lol: ) and i feel great (no headaches, weakness or any of the other things the anti-atkins folk insist will happen :cool: ). i can eat out like a normal person, and even go out for a (low carb) beer or (low carb) ice cream occassionally.

it is comforting to know that we are not alone in our 'bizarre' eating habits (be they butter on rice, carrots, choclate syrup or ice cream). i think that the habits are not so odd, given how the human body works/evolved (sugar and fat very desirable from a survival standpoint) and how overly available these foods are in our society (and 'pushed', as corianin points out). low carb eating habits seem an effective counterbalance to the excesses of the modern north american diet.

[MissScruff]

I, too, am a convert to this way of eating! I don't look at it as a diet, because we all know we go on diets to lose weight and when acheived we are back to the old habits, but I do look at it as a much needed lifestyle change that will be with me until the day I die! Sure, when I get my weight down I will add a few favorite treats in moderation! Of course, I will be careful and if I begin to gain weight then I will cut back on carbs and get back on track fast!

Are you still on Induction or are you into OWL? I am 4 days into OWL and have stalled for the last two days and will increase water and add a bit more exercise! My Dad is in the hospital and so the stress might be the reason. Has anyone tried to get good LC foods in the hospital? Very frustrating! I took my Induction Salad with me last night (my turn to stay with Dad) and of course a large bottle of water! Eating out can ba a challenge! The stuff I can't have is the stuff easiest and quickest to get ahold of! Now, eating LC is the challenge! We can't just walk into a restraunt and order whatever we feel meets our needs unless we ask extensive questions. Have any of you experienced annoyed waitresses? I sure have. And, what are they really serving. Someone said they went to IHop and ordered an omlette and found out that they put pancake batter in the egg beaters. We,, egg beaters and pancake mix are not on my allowable list! What do they put in the hamburgers as filler? They stay together much better than ones I make at home.

Sorry to ramble on! I am stressed and tired! I didn't sleep all that well because you know how hospitals are! Everytime the door opened I would be wide awake, FAST! Mom came back again and so I was able to come home to rest, but can't, so I am on the computer working on my resume and spending time on my favorite site: this one!

[platypusd]

i am on OWL now, but even on induction i found eating out a breeze on atkins. typical 'american' or pub style restaurants will usually have a salad or two on the menu. order it with a grilled chicken breast or some steak or salmon on top (or beside it). macdonalds and burger king both have low carb options - burger without the bun essentially. even fast food places that don't are doable (just look for 100% beef and leave the bun behind). greek is a godsend with the souvlaki, gryos, flaming cheese, salad with oil and feta. mexican is doable - steak/chicken fahita with sour cream and guacamole, no tortilla. east indian is one of my favorites, just say no to the naan and the rice. italian places usually have a tasty salad (or antipasto plate) that can accompany any number of meat entres.

on the annoyed wait staff - don't go to restaurants where you don't feel welcome. i made this decision years ago when i was a strict vegitarian. i am a paying customer, i tip well. if you can't take the time to tell me or find out if the vegetable soup is made with beef broth or if the hamburger has bread crumbs in it, what good are you. the waiter at my favorite nepalise joint looks amused that we order multiple curries and no rice, but when i query - does the sauce have sugar - he asks the cook and lets me know with a smile. give the places that have helpful wait staff your business. they deserve it.

[furball648]

come on, folks! why are YOU so ignorant and intolerant??

once again, it is not my aim to accuse someone for his or her body it is just that i (yes, one of the guys some of you point with your finger at and say "oh no, look at this conceited drug-fed a**hole over there what does he think who he is?") really want to know something about the reasons why north-americans tend to be either super-fit or super-obese in comparison to europeans who are normally - well - more in between of these two extremes.

sorry that my avatar may arouse feelings of being a super-loser, but if a lean person is not allowed to ask not-lean persons why they are obese, this is a sad thing.

everyone can ask me whatever he wants as long it is not offensive and i think this is the way we should cooperate with each other - just by telling every lean person asking unconfortabe questions to shut up and leave your forum you will never find acceptence in public.

so thanks to those who tried to answer my question and uuuh good bye to those i have offended by asking why you play in the triple-digits-league i wnt dae to ask you such terrible things again.
Heck this obese thing has been around longer than I have. It is no fun being obese because one thing leads to another. It is the most vicious circle you see we do not excercise enough because we are over weight. Then you get diabetes like I did and you get diabetec pain in your feet and legs so bad you can scream. The doctors say oh there is not much we can do take this insulin so you do not die. What they do not tell you is you will gain in excess of 50 pounds by taking the insulin. I do think the junk food from an early age on is a leading problem here. My mother bless her was 98 pounds and diabetic never heavy in her life went blind from diabetes before they knew to control sugar she told me they never even had meters when she was diagnosed. Diabetes is a horrible disease and most people that are overweight will either get it or don't even know they already have it. Do not ignore it for the damage it does to your body can not be reversed.

[Mindy1967]

my personal reason for weighing 230#s as follows. I was an athlete since a young child. I played every sport and in most cases better than the boys. I ran faster than than most boys and girls....untill my junior year in highschool....my knees started going bad. At this point though I was so skinny and boyish looking I was the brunt of many jokes. Fast forward to 5 years ago, keep in mind I am almost 37 right now. I hurt my back...arthritis started in all of my joints, not one or two, but all of them and then 2 and a half years ago I woke up and couldn't move.....thousands of test and they decided fibro....I have no energy at all alot of times. before all of that happened I was a size 6, lifted weights and an exercise junkie. They called my husband and I Barbie and Ken....Now, do you think I am happy that all of this sh*t happened to me? No, that is why I had surgery for my back July 1st 2004, that is why I am seeing a podiatrist, neurologist and rheumatolgist. It sucks being fat....it sucks to hurt so bad you can't fix it, it sucks to be sad all the time wishing you could be your old self. And granted alot of people, including myself, are in denial, at least up to the point that they start to make changes the best way they can, about just how much weight we have gained. I never thought I would be fat, and a word of warning to you, be careful how you judge people, you never know when your body will turn on you and you may become one of us.I have a question of my own, just what made you want to ask such a question, are you afraid of becoming one of us? :bash:
:agree:
Just for the record my sig. line is for me, after my surgery, reminding me that I can do anything reguardless of my circumstances.

[4biddenEve]

Well, let's see. I am not offended, if I was not overweight or obese, would I be here? Nope, don't think I would. But your question is how? How did I get so huge? You may not believe what I am about to tell you, but I never ate much. I skipped meals, had no structure or eating habits. When I felt hungry (which was not often) I had something with sugar. A candy bar, ice cream, just a little something like that chocolate cake! Milk and cookies...yep, that was a nice nightly deal. Ooops! I forgot my dinner, no worries, I'll just have milk & cookies. A healthy diet for me at the time. The huge amounts of foods where never part of my diet. So, not all of us got to be where we were when we started our diets, by overeating. Maybe in Germany people eat 3 balanced meals a day and their metabolisms obviously respond well. Mainly because their metabolisms have not been killed by low fat diets, 3 day crash diets, vegetarian diets, and so on. You see? We've tried so many diets, we've slowly killed our furnace (metabolism). Now, that we know a little better, it's a lot harder. But NOT IMPOSSIBLE. We will all achieve our goals. WHY? Easy, because we are DETERMINED, FOCUSSED & MOST IMPORTANTLY, WE HAVE THE SUPPORT OF OTHER PEOPLE HERE!
Thank you for your question. Sometimes questions such as yours make you realize, This diet thing ain't going so bad after all! :wave:

[Kristine]

This is, like, the Zombie thread that keeps coming back to life, just when you think you finally killed it. :daze:

Levi hasn't been around since summer 2002.

[Frederick]

This is, like, the Zombie thread that keeps coming back to life, just when you think you finally killed it. :daze:

Levi hasn't been around since summer 2002.

LMAO...Return of the Living Levi part V!

[Mindy1967]

LOL, Glad he is gone!!!!

[furball648]

Well not sure if Levi is reading or not but I took a visual survey while at Burger King yesterday. We rarely go out to a place like that but had the grand kids with us. Of the about 30 people there I would classify maybe 3 as obese and 5 needing to lose 10 pounds. The rest were thin so maybe he just was looking at a screen loaded with people heavy who knows. Were not all fat over here in fact many are in great shape. :wave:

[4biddenEve]

I guess these are the things that new people do when they try to fit in. :(
My deepest apologies for bring it back to light. I will be more careful in the future.

[kk81]

How odd...that is exactly what happened to me, but not until a few years later. The combination of the Graves and hypothyroidism threw me into very early menopause and I ended up being diagnosed as the result of a "thyroid storm". It was an experience I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy and it has taken me years to recover my health. One of the nasty little side effects was severe depression, which lasted a number of years. I gained most of my weight after the "thyroid storm", although it had been creeping up before. As my thyroid went bad, even though I had Graves, I absolutely could not get the weight off, regardless of near-starvation (on my endocronoligist recommened and supervised LF/LCal, 600 calorie a day diet) and relentless exercise. Then I just flat gave up. Thank goodness I found Dr. Atkins!! I hope your journey along this WOE/WOL is as successful as mine.

Did you become hypothyroid from taking anti-thyroid pills, radioactive iodine uptake, or from undiagnosis? I am currrently on methimazole for Grave's Disease for the past 3 months now. I am always feeling fatigued, I'mreally worried I'm gonna become hypothyroid and gain more weight. I gained 5 lb since I started the meds.

[MrFrumble]

Europeans are getting fatter than Americans (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=534&ncid=534&e=1&u=/ap/20050315/ap_on_he_me/fit_supersize_eu)

[karmen31]

I am not offended at all by the question... I am a new here, but still would like to throw in my thoughts.
I was never heavy growing up, very normal weight and also very active. I played every sport available to me including gymnastics, volleyball, soccer, baseball, track and field, field hockey and basketball. I never thought about food. I ate whatever I wanted when I was hungry. I don't ever remember food being an issue growing up, I was raised in a middle-upper income family, so the low income = obesity is not true for me. After University - still weighting in at around 125 pounds, I started my first office job. I sat all day. Starting dating my husband - who loves food and always needs good quality and big quantities. I gained 10 pounds per year over the last 8 years... Does anyone really notice gaining a pound a month? I sure didn't. So, my activity basically stopped, I sat on my butt all day and I ate a lot. I stopped getting on the scale, and then I finally hit the big 200 mark. I always thought the same thing as Levi - How do people get so big? Well, it happens by living and by changing of our lifestyle. It is not a conscious thing that we do. The hardest part is admiting that I am obese, but I have and now I am on the road to good health and good living.

[KittyAtl]

I don't know how anyone could get upset about Levi asking a question about how'd we get obese. If you got upset, I would suggest you immediately get referrals to counseling. You wouldn't be upset if he'd asked "how'd you get so thin." I'm fat, obese, chubby, porky, thick, etc. etc. I'd rather someone ask me an honest question than to dance around a subject of interest (unless it's money or religion or my sex life).

[AndreaBash]

You wouldn't be upset if he'd asked "how'd you get so thin."

I think that's because no one "normal" perceives there to be anything wrong with being thin.

[joanee]

Levi may be long gone, but his question is probably one that every single person on this board has asked of him/herself at some point. This is an excerpt from a Q&A forum sponsored and answered by the Cornell University Cooperative Extension:

Q. My question is - are there any studies or is there any evidence that the increased availability of bread and refined carbohydrate products (usually low in cost and readily available anywhere) has contributed to the increased incidence of obesity in this country? Also, is the increased prevalence of adult obesity directly related to the increased incidence of childhood obesity here?
A.The relationship between diet and obesity is a tough one. Many people have looked for such a relationship and have been unable to find one. In fact, there are some data showing that obese people eat less sugar and refined carbohydrates than their leaner peers. There is even a debate about calories. Most researchers have not found an increase in caloric intake with increasing body weight. Several researchers, including our own work, have found that intake increases with lean body mass, and not total weight. The only consistent finding between diet and obesity is that obese adults and children eat a high percent of their calories as fat. It is important to point out, however, that this is intake after they are obese. What is most important is what do they eat just prior and during their weight gain. We just don't know.

[Crat0s]

Hmm it was a combination of many things really and I'm not sure I can attribute them all. In a nutshell...I had to move to NC right before middle school and I was depressed. Then I never really "fit in" in middle school and got even more depressed. Though I I had some friends, all male of course, I got rejected every time by girls...guess it kept packing on as a result.

In highschool I gained a newfound respect for self reliance, determination, and self improvement and devoted myself from Sophomore year and on to bettering myself. Now in my second semester of college I've nearly met my goals after doing Atkins off and on and finally returning, this time to stick it out, this past January.

Ironically now that I'm nearly at my goal some of those girls are at my university are coming to realize now want me...I obviously don't give them the time of day :).

[runnr]

I've never been overweight, just to use that as a qualifier right from the get-go

I agree there was some tact needed but in my opinion (and I realize I will probably get mega-flamed) for this, we are OVERLY conscious of the self-esteem of people who are morbidly obese

I'm not suggesting that we should be going up to anyone on the street who needs to lose 40 pounds and tell them, but when someone in your immediate circle of friends/relatives is MORBIDLY obese, you should feel able to discuss it with them as you would any other life-threatening problem (alcoholism, drug addiction, etc)

But most of the time we keep quiet, because in our society even saying "Have you ever considered joining a gym?" to an overweight person, EVEN IF THEY ARE A GOOD FRIEND/RELATIVE OF YOURS, is considered a crime punishable by death. We are expected to pretend that this person looks absolutely fabulous and is not doing anything to risk their health, because how unfortunate if it hurt their self esteem

I don't want to make anyone feel awful, but I do have a good friend who is morbidly obese, and I'd really like to help. Yet I say nothing because of these social norms. How is that helping her? From the stories I've read here, a lot of people who've succesfully lost weight did so after hearing a really negative comment about their weight. So isn't addressing the problem the right thing to do?

Apologize if I've offended anyone, thats not my intention and as I've stated, I have no way of knowing how being morbidly obese feels

[kwikdriver]

I agree there was some tact needed but in my opinion (and I realize I will probably get mega-flamed) for this, we are OVERLY conscious of the self-esteem of people who are morbidly obese

...

But most of the time we keep quiet, because in our society even saying "Have you ever considered joining a gym?" to an overweight person, EVEN IF THEY ARE A GOOD FRIEND/RELATIVE OF YOURS, is considered a crime punishable by death. We are expected to pretend that this person looks absolutely fabulous and is not doing anything to risk their health, because how unfortunate if it hurt their self esteem


...


Apologize if I've offended anyone, thats not my intention and as I've stated, I have no way of knowing how being morbidly obese feels

I'm just curious as to what you think "saying something" is supposed to accomplish. Without an ounce (as it were) of exaggeration, I can tell you I was born overweight, and have been overweight every day of my life. Do you think you have any words of wisdom I haven't heard from friends, relatives, doctors, strangers on the street, read in books, seen on TV, seen in films? Do you think that these morbidly obese people are simply waiting for you to tell them they have a problem? Once you speak the magic words, they will slap themselves on the foreheads and say, "Wow, I have a problem. I never knew that before!"?


Joining a gym? I almost certainly know more about physical fitness than you do, and have spent far more time in the gym and exercizing than you have. I used to be able to bench press 300+ pounds, walk 2 hours to a gym, play basketball for 6 hours a day, then take a two hour walk home. I still weighed well over 250 pounds.

What really annoys me about your post, by the way, isn't the gross ignorance of it (ignorance is something we all suffer from in one area or another), but rather, the implication that fat people have simple solutions to the problem but simply refuse to adopt them. Most obese people have been told this their entire lives ("You just need willpower!"); it is only now that science is coming to the conclusion that food addiction and obesity are diseases, and there are no easy cures. I suggest you take a look around this site, and really listen to the anguish, the feelings of frustration and self loathing that you can find everywhere. I guarantee you that no one needs to be told by you they have a weight problem, and I also guarantee you that "going to a gym," or merely being told to do so, isn't going to solve anything.

[DrippinBld]

Cratos: I can really relate to your post. I was a very fat kid up until I was around 16 when I slimmed down through calorie restriction. I have since put some weight back on but I'm nowhere near as overweight as I used to be. Anyway, I know how tough it is to be a fat kid in school in modern society - sheer emotional hell. I thought back to those days and it has inspired me to get in shape again.

PS Aren't you tempted to just use those girls for sex? ;)

[DrippinBld]

it is only now that science is coming to the conclusion that food addiction and obesity are diseases, and there are no easy cures.


Philosophy is way ahead of 'em dude. There are no obese people who live in the fashion of our paleolithic (stone age) ancestors. Foods of civilisation are the primary cause of obesity. Eat as close to these people as you can and eventually you are almost certain to achieve your ideal weight. There's no need for medical intervention (of course you can't discount that there maybe some incredibly rare exceptions), just an adoption of a more natural way of eating. Knowledge is the key.

[joanee]

Runnr, I just can't believe that you have no idea what it's like being obese in this society. C'mon, hasn't anyone ever called you a nig*er? fag*ot? effin' dyke? mutha-effin' whitey, beaner? How 'bout "hey, numb-nuts," "stupid bi*ch", dumb c*nt, dumb Pola*k, dumb blond, dumb sh*t, four-eyes? Has nobody ever stared at you because you had one leg shorter than the other, or three fingers on one hand, or had the look of a Down's Syndrome sufferer? You've never heard of bargaining for an item being referred to as "jewing the price down?" What, you mean you've never been followed around in a store just because of the color of your skin? Never had people stare at you because you kissed a member of the same sex on the mouth in public? Never had anybody call you a baby-killer just because you wore a military uniform? Well, umm, can you think of a reason why an enormous number of people in this society would reflexively fill in the phrase "Fat and ________" with the word "stupid" or "lazy?" "Fat ________" with the word "pig" or "basta*d?" Saaaay, didn't you yourself just refer to obese people as "unattractive," as though this were an objective fact, and not merely an expression of your personal aesthetic? And isn't it funny how every single one of them hides their sentiments under the safe (totally bs) category of "it's just not good/healthy/moral/aesthetic/productive/ fill in the blank.... for them to be that way." Runnr, babe, I have an idea that you know exactly how it feels to be obese in this society, since I have yet to meet the person who hasn't felt just terrible after being made to feel unacceptable, left out, stereotyped, put down, and less than fully human because of some characteristic or other. None of us seems to escape that. The world is full of nazi-wannabes who think the maintenance of an aryan race is the goal of life, whether they be Hutu nazis trying to exterminate Tutsis, or cowboy nazis trying to exterminate Native Americans, or right-wing nazis trying to exterminate gays. Not that YOU'd ever think of yourself that way. But then, maybe it's not so easy to see yourself as you really are, after all? Hmmm? Quite frankly, what your "good friend" puts in his or her mouth is none of your damned business. Why not try to see him/her as a full human being, instead of just an unattractive, unhealthy mound of flesh? This is MY rant.

[DrippinBld]

'mutha-effin' whitey'

That seems to be the most popular and acceptable 1 at the moment.


'C'mon, hasn't anyone ever called you a nig*er? fag*ot? effin' dyke? mutha-effin' whitey, beaner? How 'bout "hey, numb-nuts," "stupid bi*ch", dumb c*nt, dumb Pola*k, dumb blond, dumb sh*t, four-eyes?'

All in the course of a typical conversation with 1 of my friends. :)

[DrippinBld]

Come on guys, runner may have displayed a little naivety in her post but to respond with:

Hutu nazis trying to exterminate Tutsis, or cowboy nazis trying to exterminate Native Americans, or right-wing nazis trying to exterminate gays.

:lol:

Come on. Relax.

[joanee]

Aw, fer pete's sake, Drippin'! The whole point to a rant :mad: is that you get to shout a bit and get it off your chest. And, in fact, while the Janjaweed nazi-wannabees are currently slaughtering an estimated 10,000 (yep -- that's ten thousand) Sudanese per week in Darfur at this very moment, I rather think we should be exercized about intolerance, not relaxed. My point is that all of us have been at the painful end of some kind of intolerance or other. What we need is the compassion -- the empathy -- the imagination -- :idea: to see that other people are just as hurt by the particular ways in which they are picked on, as we are about the ways we are picked on. Runnr's point was that society has become so sensitive about hurting the feelings of obese people that it is no longer possible to talk to the obese honestly, bluntly, helpfully. But we all know that one potent way of hurting people is to repeat the same criticism over and over. "Why don't you lose weight" said once is fine; twice is repetitive, three times is tedius; four times is exasperating; :Puke: when it's said over and over it is harassing and/or abusive; :bash: and when it is turned into a mantra by an entire society, it's just plain hateful.:devil: My point is that the intolerant ALWAYS think they are "helping." The ones who want gays to 'straighten out' are being helpful, the ones who want hispanics to 'speak English' are being helpful, the ones who want peace demonstrators to be 'more patriotic' are being helpful.:rolleyes: A little self-knowledge, a little empathy, a little humility, and one must surely find oneself 'helpfully' criticizing less, and granting that greatest, most truly helpful gift -- loving acceptance -- much, much more.:there: I wonder how many people have packed on pounds to console themselves for being unlovely and unwanted in the eyes of an entire society? :cry: I wonder how many of these same people might be given a new and healthy lease on life when they encounter loving acceptance just as they are? :rheart:

[joanee]

Anyway, I know how tough it is to be a fat kid in school in modern society - sheer emotional hell.
Jeez, Drippin! Just when you had my sympathy, you went ahead and said:

PS Aren't you tempted to just use those girls for sex? ;)
And said it with a wink, no less. So, Drippin' -- tell the truth, now. Don't hold back. Just how hellish was it in high school? What I wanna know is, do you think it was more hellish or less hellish than being young, vulnerable, and only valued for sexual exploitation by emotionally damaged men?

[fatnewmom]

I know several Germans & heard them pose the same question. I think it's interesting that obesity is a rarity in other Westernized countries. We Americans need to take a critical look at our culturally accepted diets, our media, our relationship with food. We eat a lot of junk, rather than preparing whole foods at home. We eat large portions. We eat processed foods, things loaded with dyes and additives, drink sugared concoctions throughout the day, and drive to places we have to go instead of walk. And most of us are unhappy about being obese or overweight -- it's not that we want to be this way! Our obesity problem indicates an underlying cultural sickness. Instead of getting defensive & attacking the poor guy who asks a relevant question, we need to assess our own attitudes & lifestyle choices. And we need to have an open dialogue about this issue instead of name-calling.

[DrippinBld]

And said it with a wink, no less. So, Drippin' -- tell the truth, now. Don't hold
back. Just how hellish was it in high school? What I wanna know is, do you think it was more hellish or less hellish than being young, vulnerable, and only valued for sexual exploitation by emotionally damaged men?


It was a joke. Lighten up. Are you gonna go on anymore psychotic rants for me to laugh at? That last 1 was great.

[Lisa N]

I know several Germans & heard them pose the same question. I think it's interesting that obesity is a rarity in other Westernized countries.

I find it interesting that according to this study (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=239128) Germany has a higher percentage of obese men than the US. Perhaps Levi was only looking at the ladies? ;)

[DrippinBld]

Sorry to get all political but I feel the reason we have such an epidemic of obesity in the western world is mainly due to unrestrained capitalism (and I'm certainly no commie). Basically the food industry has been allowed to dictate what is presented as healthy to us (the Food Pyramid) and bombard us with messages, often from early childhood, to eat poison.

Every child should be given extensive education on nutrition that is free from the bias of the food industry along with given subsidised cooking classes (where they can take their food home to the family - this could even be done every day), advertisements of products which are poisonous trash should be outlawed and course political parties should be indepent of direct donations from big business and instead provide nutritional information based on genuine science. That's a reasonable start.

The only efforts I see by government arenothing more than sticking-plasters on huge, gaping wounds. Under my proposals, mum and dad would still be free to buy transfat-laden sugar and white flour products but they'd know exactly what they were doing (or have a much better chance of knowing) and their kids wouldn't have the impression that it's an essential part of being a "normal" kid to drink carbonated sugar water.

As for people who would argue for freedom from government intervention, I think it's justified to prevent corporate tyranny. You Americans accepted the Patriot Act, so you should have no problems with my proposals. :)

Unless something drastic is done, we're gonna continue to expand. And if the government is forced to itervene in the future because of negative effects on the economy, it'll probably be less benevolent than my suggestions and involve calorie rationing and McDonalds tokens. I probably lost most of you there, but I had to get that off my chest.

[DrippinBld]

I find it interesting that according to this study (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=239128) Germany has a higher percentage of obese men than the US. Perhaps Levi was only looking at the ladies? ;)

It actually said obese or overweight men. Overweight is the keyword here. Every study I've ever seen shows the obesity rate of America is unparalleled. And that's not to mention the morbid obesity rate.

You'll see a lot of people who could do with losing a few pounds in the UK and in Germany but everyone I know who has visited the US is so shocked at the rate of obesity and especially morbid obesity. I am not being cruel, but some people that walk around in the US without getting a second glance would be the focus of attention on the street over here.

Our local butcher is around 320 pounds and it seems as though he's biggest person in my town of around 100,000. Everyone seems to know of him because of his size.

[Snow_White]

I have lived in both Germany and America and have been equally immersed in both cultures (my husband is German). Now where we live, in Bavaria, there seem to be the same amount of overweight men as in America, but MUCH fewer overweight women. I don't know about the rest of the states in Germany, but in Bavaria, I've noticed 2 things:

1. The bread is made WITHOUT sugar, milk, preservatives. It is basically wheat, water, and yeast. It is VERY dense -- I can only eat 1/2 a slice.

2. There is an abundance of unprocessed food available.

I'm not saying that every German lives healthfully, I'm saying that it is MUCH easier to do so in Germany.

One other point is that Germans are much more active in day-to-day life. Pedestrian shopping areas and parks everwhere are FULL of walkers and bikers on any given day. The public transportation system is WONDERFUL (every town, even the tiny villages, had their own train station).

[runnr]

What really annoys me about your post, by the way, isn't the gross ignorance of it (ignorance is something we all suffer from in one area or another), but rather, the implication that fat people have simple solutions to the problem but simply refuse to adopt them

My intent was not to suggest that I have some sort of magic potion that would make everyone lose weight. On the contrary, losing weight is a MAJOR undertaking and is a very difficult process. My point is that - is it right for us to err on the side of silence? Isn't there a way I can serve my friend better than by pretending there isn't a problem?

[runnr]

I also would like to comment on this

Do you think you have any words of wisdom I haven't heard from friends, relatives, doctors, strangers on the street, read in books, seen on TV, seen in films? Do you think that these morbidly obese people are simply waiting for you to tell them they have a problem?

I might - without having this discussion with her how can I possibly know? Aren't we all in agreeance here on a daily basis that the general public is SOOO undereducated about nutrition? Even people here who have adopted the atkins diet, daily we see posts about how they are making incorrect choices which are sabotaging their weight loss.

I don't profess to be an expert on either nutrition or exercise but as a marathon runner who has done 5 years of strength training/yoga/pilates as well as various gym classes who also reads nutrition literature on a monthly basis, I'm certainly more educated than the average person. Shouldn't I be using this to help her, instead of being completely silent on the issue?

[potatofree]

Trust me, if your friend WANTS your help, she'll ask.

[runnr]

Okay, so I guess then silence is still the best policy. I just find it sad

[potatofree]

Just be her friend. It's not so much "silence" as acceptance. Trust me, I have people in my life who judge my weight, and even though they're tight-lipped about it, you can SEE the lectures just bubbling under the surface. I have a thin friend who's been a great source of encouragement and support, though. The main reason I felt comfortable with her is she doesn't presume to know more than me about weight loss, since she's never HAD to lose any amount of weight. She has a lot of knowledge about nutrition and exercise, but isn't presumptuous enough to try and "teach" me how to lose weight.

When she reaches a point where she's willing to reach out, you can be that resource for her.

[DrippinBld]

I don't see the problem with runnr making helpful suggestions like gently pointing her friend to the Atkins site. But saying: "Have you ever thought of going to the gym?" Imagine how that would sound?

:lol:

[kwikdriver]

I also would like to comment on this

I might - without having this discussion with her how can I possibly know? Aren't we all in agreeance here on a daily basis that the general public is SOOO undereducated about nutrition? Even people here who have adopted the atkins diet, daily we see posts about how they are making incorrect choices which are sabotaging their weight loss.

If you seriously think you can enlighten this person about the perils and disadvantages of obesity where our entire, fat despising culture has failed, then by all means, make the attempt. My true friends never had a problem discussing obesity with me. Of course, if you don't know this person well enough to broach the subject, then it really is none of your business in the first place.

[runnr]

But saying: "Have you ever thought of going to the gym?" Imagine how that would sound?

Okay granted, I can see how that was a ridiculously bad choice of phrases to use as my example. Sorry about that

You are correct, my help would involve pointing them to this site, suggesting they read dandr, giving them snack replacement ideas, offering to go to a social walking club with them, etc. It certainly would not be as callous as to suggest that she has never realized that exercise=weight loss

[DrippinBld]

You really do not need to apologise to me. I personally don't think you deserved the responses you got. My laughter wasn't mocking you, you just made me chuckle.

[joanee]

my help would involve pointing them to this site, suggesting they read dandr, giving them snack replacement ideas, offering to go to a social walking club with them, etc.

Runnr, your posts still don't acknowledge the role of loving acceptance in changing someone's life. Is it because you don't believe in it? If so, I can offer you my help. My help would involve pointing you to a bible site, suggesting you read the Beatitudes and the Divine Counsels, giving you kind-language replacement ideas, offering to go to confession or a spiritual counselor with you, etc.

Don't you see how obnoxious this is? It's obnoxious because it merely reflects the fact that in my opinion this kind of 'help' lacks compassion, a condition that is much more important to me than obesity. Who am I to impose my personal views of spiritual loveliness/wellbeing on you? And who are you to impose your personal views of physical loveliness/wellbeing on your friend? Perhaps you are really saying that she has no damned right -- no damned business -- how dare she -- like herself as she is, being fat like that and all. Just accept her as she is. If she wants to change, she will do it.

I don't profess to be an expert on either nutrition or exercise but as a marathon runner who has done 5 years of strength training/yoga/pilates as well as various gym classes who also reads nutrition literature on a monthly basis, I'm certainly more educated than the average person. Shouldn't I be using this to help her, instead of being completely silent on the issue?

Okay, so I guess then silence is still the best policy. I just find it sad

I very much admire a person with your commitment. But why not share your knowledge at a local Y or a community college, rather than directing it at an individual who hasn't indicated that she wants it. That way, you could be doing your part to help those who have already come to the conclusion that they do want your help, and at the same time, you wouldn't have to be silent about a subject that evidently is important to you.

[runnr]

Again, lets remember we are talking about someone who is morbidly obese, a condition that is more life-threatening than either smoking or alchoholism

If I had a friend who was threatening their life through the use of drugs, alchohol, or tobacco, I would intervene. All I'm asking is, why don't the same rules apply when we are dealing with obesity?

I realize I am not as tactful or using the ideal appropriate language here, and that probably comes from lack of understanding about the feelings involved to an obese person. Really hope I'm not offending anyone, I'm simply trying to have a discussion and maybe get some answers that would help me in dealing with this friend

[joanee]

Unless something drastic is done, we're gonna continue to expand. And if the government is forced to itervene in the future because of negative effects on the economy, it'll probably be less benevolent than my suggestions and involve calorie rationing and McDonalds tokens. I probably lost most of you there, but I had to get that off my chest. ( :daze: )
I rest my case.:lol:

[joanee]

Just accept her as she is. If she wants to change, she will do it.

My true friends never had a problem discussing obesity with me. Of course, if you don't know this person well enough to broach the subject, then it really is none of your business in the first place.
Just be her friend. It's not so much "silence" as acceptance. Trust me
Trust me, if your friend WANTS your help, she'll ask.
Do you think that these morbidly obese people are simply waiting for you to tell them they have a problem?
Und so weiter.... You are getting answers, Runnr -- you just don't seem able to accept the answers you're getting.

[runnr]

Actually I mentioned above that I recognized that silence must have been the answer, I just felt that it was sad that I couldn't play a more active role in helping to save my friend from severe health problems and possibly death

I don't think silence is the way to address this issue but it certainly is the popular opinion

[gotbeer]

Runnr, just because there is no socially acceptable way do something doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't do it anyway - social haughtiness is a poor substitute for sound moral judgment.

I wish someone - anyone - had alerted me to the Atkins Diet 20 years ago. I may not have appreciated it at the time; I might even have disowned the poor soul who bit the bullet and told me about it. Nevertheless, today I'd have to admit that they were correct, and that I was wrong to have treated them harshly for it.

You could confront her directly, or you could adopt a more circumspect way of getting her attention. Your good deed may get you punished, but that doesn't make it any less of a good deed.

Some ideas:

Send her DANDR anonymously.
Make a show out of counting the net carbs of whatever you are eating.
Complain about how eating bread makes you pack on weight.

Or, I suppose, you could just lovingly accept her right into an early grave. Just make sure you are mentioned in her will - cha-ching! Scoring some of the cash from her estate might ease the sting of staring at her dead body and feeling regret at having done nothing to save the life of your friend.

http://www.free-money.grants.be/images/money-clip.gif

[fatnewmom]

I find it interesting that according to this study (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=239128) Germany has a higher percentage of obese men than the US. Perhaps Levi was only looking at the ladies? ;)

I've seen this study, too. But I think what fascinates Europeans is our surplus of the "grossly obese" (ie. super large).

[fatnewmom]

To Drippin':

I personally don't know any Americans who support the Patriot Act, by the way. But I live on the West coast, in a blue state.

The current regime is a scary thing. But that's way off topic...

[runnr]

Thats a good idea - I'll bet if I keep mentioning how much better I have felt since I cut out sugar and gluten, maybe it will get some ideas going in her head? I wish we had an acquaintance who had lost weight on atkins that could be a buddy or a support for her

[potatofree]

If you're going to HINT about it, you might as well just SAY it. It'll probably hurt less in the long run. It may not WORK, and she may hate you, but you'll feel better for saying something, I guess.

As for gotbeer's suggestion of sending the book anonymously, it'll likely backfire. If you NEED to save her so badly, just say it to her face. I had an anonymous "gift" like that, and it made me feel like EVERYONE was judging my weight, since they didn't sign a name to it.

[gotbeer]

As for gotbeer's suggestion of sending the book anonymously, it'll likely backfire. If you NEED to save her so badly, just say it to her face. I had an anonymous "gift" like that, and it made me feel like EVERYONE was judging my weight, since they didn't sign a name to it.Sounds like in your case the anonymous gift didn't backfire at all - rather, the anonymity made it more effective than a direct confrontation.

[joanee]

Runnr, just because there is no socially acceptable way do something doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't do it anyway - social haughtiness is a poor substitute for sound moral judgment. IMO, when there is no socially acceptable way to do something, that is a strong indication that society doesn't find it all that morally sound in the first place. So the fact that it's widely considered rude to comment (much less to prosyletize or nag) about what people eat is to me the best argument for not doing it.
I just felt that it was sad that I couldn't play a more active role in helping to save my friend from severe health problems and possibly death
Or, I suppose, you could just lovingly accept her right into an early grave.None of us gets out of here alive, k guys? Runnr and Gotbeer, you're both gonna die of something. The fact that you two will try your best not to die of overeating doesn't make you morally superior to anyone, nor does it guarantee that you won't die of the food you eat. In fact, one of the things about being all grown up is that, for the most part, you get to chose your poison. Speaking for myself, since I'm gonna have to die of something anyway, I'd rather die in a state of self-acceptance than get nagged to death. IMO, an inability to just accept friends as they are has more to say about control issues than choice of menus.

[potatofree]

Sounds like in your case the anonymous gift didn't backfire at all - rather, the anonymity made it more effective than a direct confrontation.

Wrong again. I cried for hours in between bites of junk food. Feeling like you're being judged for being fat is bad, but KNOWING someone thought you were so disgusting they took such a step felt MUCH worse. Not knowing which direction the slam came from made me feel suspicious of EVERYONE.

[gotbeer]

IMO, when there is no socially acceptable way to do something, that is a strong indication that society doesn't find it all that morally sound in the first place. So the fact that it's widely considered rude to comment (much less to proselytize or nag) about what people eat is to me the best argument for not doing it.While there is some congruence between social pressure and mortality, the relationship is not perfect. As moral agents we can give more or less weight to social rules, but they are not the last word on what is moral and what is not.

For example, fornication is socially well-accepted, but is seen as immoral by most domestic religions. Likewise, racism was once socially accepted, though it was and is immoral.

Politeness is not generally required when live-or-death issues are on the table. If someone is drowning, I'm not going to excuse myself for leaving the dinner table abruptly to save them.

None of us gets out of here alive, k guys? Runnr and Gotbeer, you're both gonna die of something. The fact that you two will try your best not to die of overeating doesn't make you morally superior to anyone, nor does it guarantee that you won't die of the food you eat. In fact, one of the things about being all grown up is that, for the most part, you get to chose your poison. Speaking for myself, since I'm gonna have to die of something anyway, I'd rather die in a state of self-acceptance than get nagged to death. IMO, an inability to just accept friends as they are has more to say about control issues than choice of menus.The inevitability of death is not an excuse to hasten death. No murder defendant was ever found not guilty on the basis that the victim would have died eventually anyway.

However, I do promise that if I ever see you drowning, Joanee, I will quietly finish my dinner, secure in the knowledge that my control issues were well under control.

[gotbeer]

Wrong again. I cried for hours in between bites of junk food. Feeling like you're being judged for being fat is bad, but KNOWING someone thought you were so disgusting they took such a step felt MUCH worse. Not knowing which direction the slam came from made me feel suspicious of EVERYONE.Yes, the immediate effect was negative, but unless I am reading your stats wrong, you appear to have lost quite a bit of weight since then.

[potatofree]

The weight loss started when I had a nightmare about dying from a heart attack caused by my weight, leaving my disabled son lying there helpless and alone.

Out of desperation, I started seeking out information on Atkins. I learned about Atkins from a person I had seen lose a large amount of weight. I sought her out and asked her what plan she used. I then proceeded to buy the book, and search out information online.

[Lisa N]

You know...when it comes to losing weight and even to addictions, the person has to want to be helped before they can be. Until they reach that point on their own, no amount of nagging, shaming or 'friendly' suggestions are going to make a darn bit of difference and will most likely damage your friendship with them, possibly beyond repair. Been there, done that with an alcoholic friend. Didn't make a whit of difference and nearly ended our frienship.
Runnr, your desire to help your friend is admirable and I'm sure you mean well, but consider that you may not be the best person to suggest that they need to lose weight. Since you have never been overweight (your words), I can almost guarantee you that it will not be taken well. There are some things that we can only 'hear' from certain people. ;)

[Judynyc]

Very well said Lisa N!! I agree with you 100%!!!!!!!!!!

I was morbidly obese for the past 16 yrs. Anything that anyone said to me was wrong and hurt and upset me. I knew that I needed to lose weight but I was having alot of life problems that I was eating over. It was a vicious cycle that I was in and it took my own willingness and desire to get myself out of it.

Family said things to me and certain friends did too. I was called names by strangers when outside and was extremely humiliated by these things. Yet all those words did nothing except to have me eating more!! a very sad state to be in, I assure you!!

I hit my bottom last spring when I saw some candid shots taken of me and when I could barely make it up 1 flight of stairs. Thats when I made my decision to do South Beach. It was my decision and nobody had said a word to me.

Now that I've lost alot of weight and I look very different, I get many people approaching asking me how I did it. I give them as much information as I can, I give them a link to this site and then I'm done. If they want more help, they have to ask for it.

I would never approach anyone and tell them what to do!! NOT EVER!! Not even if they are my very best friend. They have to want it and ask me for it first.

I'm actually now starting to really feel people out when they ask me because some of them aren't there yet...they just want information and are not ready to make the commitment and it is a very big commitment. I do speak from personal experience as I have yo-yo'ed at least 10 times on different plans since my 30's and thats no fun!!

[potatofree]

Judy-- you've done GREAT! I love how you've found a balance with people who've asked you for help, too. You're a great example, but you're also repectful enough not to push.

[serrelind]

You know...when it comes to losing weight and even to addictions, the person has to want to be helped before they can be. Until they reach that point on their own, no amount of nagging, shaming or 'friendly' suggestions are going to make a darn bit of difference and will most likely damage your friendship with them, possibly beyond repair.

I also agree 100%. I've tried it both ways and I have come to the conclusion that unless the other person wants to help themselves, no amount of persuasion, prodding, and nagging will make a difference long term. It may temporarily work, but unless they really want to do it for themselves, it's a futile effort and can be harmful to the relationship in the long run.

Serre

[joanee]

While there is some congruence between social pressure and mortality, the relationship is not perfect. As moral agents we can give more or less weight to social rules, but they are not the last word on what is moral and what is not.

For example, fornication is socially well-accepted, but is seen as immoral by most domestic religions. Likewise, racism was once socially accepted, though it was and is immoral.
Sounds like in your case the anonymous gift didn't backfire at all - rather, the anonymity made it more effective than a direct confrontation.
Gotbeer, setting forth a sound moral basis for the intervention you advocate is exactly what you and Runnr have failed to do. A 'morality' of human relationships that does not account for hurt, dehumanized feelings is no morality at all. To take your own examples, fornication is considered sinful by 'domestic religions' precisely because of its dehumanizing effects on people -- what is objectionable is the use of people as sexual objects for immediate gratification, rather than the appreciation and honoring of the full human being that is implicit in a marriage commitment. Likewise, racism is immoral precisely because it fails to take into account the full humanity, including the terribly hurt feelings, of people judged as inferior because of the color of their skin. Over and over, this thread has urged acceptance of one's friends. This is the moral position. It does what you yourself seem to imply (by your examples of fornication and racism) is morally imperative: it takes into account the balance between one aspect of a person, i.e. their propensity to overeat, with the fullness of that same person, including their feelings about not being accepted for who they are. I'll bet most of us reading this thread guessed, long before Potatofree spelled it out, that the anonymous 'gift' of dandr must have hurt her terribly and was not helpful.

The inevitability of death is not an excuse to hasten death. No murder defendant was ever found not guilty on the basis that the victim would have died eventually anyway.
Indeed, the inevitability of death is not an excuse to hasten death. It is, however, a reason not to fear death. And it certainly is not an excuse to impose your view of what a 'good life' is on another person who seems disinclined to accept it. As for not-guiltys, Dr. Kevorkian comes immediately to mind.
I do promise that if I ever see you drowning, Joanee, I will quietly finish my dinner, secure in the knowledge that my control issues were well under control.
That's between you and your God. My God will surely know whether or not I can accept being saved from drowning in the first place, and His choice whether or not to have me rescued will take this (as well as your control issues and your ability to swim) into account.
In a frightening way, Gotbeer, your avatar might (not does, but might), in fact, speak volumes about your relationship to humanity.

[gotbeer]

What sort of depraved moral calculus counts early death as a non-issue when compared to hurt feelings?

Ah, such frail, delicate flowers are the women of today! I had always thought them stronger than that, but perhaps I was mistaken. Given the moral primacy of happy chick thoughts, maybe we better keep women cloistered away in nunneries, rather than allow them wander about in the real world, where any manner of unpleasant slights might bruise their emotionally crippled souls. We'll even give them lovely colors on typefaces so that they may spend their vacuous days muttering "Pretty!" and :"Boop-oop-a-doop!"

Actually, Joanee, Agent Smith might be a better avatar for you than me, since his job in the Matrix was to stifle dissent from social norms in order to maintain a controlled, pain-free society.

[joanee]

Actually, Joanee, Agent Smith might be a better avatar for you than me, since his job in the Matrix was to stifle dissent from social norms in order to maintain a controlled, pain-free society.I definitely sense an escalation in your post, and I have to think it relates to my comment on your avatar. My comment was completely out of line, and I take it back, with apologies. I absolutely do not know you. I certainly don't know you well enought to know why you chose that avatar in the first place: it's actually a great graphic, which may have been its only significance to you. My apologies for my presumptuousness in attributing it to any other factor, much less something vital (and pompous) like "your relationship to humanity.") Having said that, let's be fair; my posts hardly stifle dissent -- they fully engage your opinions and those of others, and invite full responses in kind.
Ah, such frail, delicate flowers are the women of today! I had always thought them stronger than that, but perhaps I was mistaken. Given the moral primacy of happy chick thoughts, maybe we better keep women cloistered away in nunneries, rather than allow them wander about in the real world, where any manner of unpleasant slights might bruise their emotionally crippled souls. We'll even give them lovely colors on typefaces so that they may spend their vacuous days muttering "Pretty!" and :"Boop-oop-a-doop!"


There is nothing frail, or delicate, or vacuous about trying to discern and live a moral course through life. Quite the opposite is true; it has engaged the very best minds, the very deepest souls, the most sensitive and pragmatic people on earth, women no less than men, in every culture, and in every time. Happy thoughts, whether 'chick' thoughts or 'rooster' thoughts, are often at the center of the moral journey -- the journey is, after all, very much about the Good, and happiness is indeed a very great Good.
Some of my best friends, including my own blood-sister, are completely cloistered nuns. The intellectual, moral, and physical rigor and discipline of their lives would astound you. Far from being emotionally crippled, they are some of the most well-rounded, well-grounded people I've ever met.
Nor are women who care about the feelings of others 'emotionally crippled.' In fact, it is a sign of emotional health and maturity to be able to empathize with others. It is the lack of empathy which distinguishes psychopaths and sociopaths from emotionally healthy people.
:"Boop-oop-a-doop!"It was the avatar comment, wasn't it? Again, forgive me. That was uncalled for.

[joanee]

What sort of depraved moral calculus counts early death as a non-issue when compared to hurt feelings?I don't want to ignore the real heart of your post, which is reflected in this quote. I actually think this is a tough question. I'll leave aside the fraught word 'depraved' for the moment, because it is the 'moral calculus' that matters most.
As a btw, you are not God. You don't know whether anyone's death is early or not.
You rely on exxageration: I don't treat 'early death' as a 'non-issue.' I've merely turned the notion of death on its head, in order to cast the issue as one of quality of life, rather than quality of death. I've done so because it is, IMO, a more accurate reflection of the values implicit in not imposing judgments of dietary health/beauty/well-being on people who haven't asked for them.
I can see how an unhealthy life might lead to death -- and I can see a very humanitarian concern in wanting to spare someone the consequences of making unhealthy choices. I guess what is really at the heart of our debate/disagreement is the relative value -- or maybe the relative meaning -- we give to the notion of quality of life. In my view, a short happy life is not at all a bad thing. For that matter, a happy life shortened by obesity is not a bad thing. There are 6 billion people on earth, the great, great, great, vast majority of whom are going to Heaven when they die. This is a short life, Gotbeer. If you spend it fat and happy, IMO that is no worse than spending it thin and happy. Happiness is a complex thing, don't get me wrong. Nevertheless, it is of great value in life. And people who've experienced the judgmental interventions that you are advocating rarely report being made happy by them. You did not respond empathetically to potatofree's response to you, so I'm not sure you've given yourself time fully to consider that fact.
As for the word 'depraved,' well . . . if you say so. My own deep certitude is that you know in both your heart and your mind that nothing said in this thread has been depraved, vacuous, or stifling. You don't even believe that yourself.

[gotbeer]

Very well, Joanee. I acknowledge that my own avatar-related quips were out-of-line, and I withdraw them, and offer my apologies. Furthermore, as an advocate for the infliction of short-term pain in the hope of securing long-term good, I am hardly in the position to argue that whatever pain your avatar remarks may have caused me wasn't worth the insights that the pain brought as well!

Some of my best friends, including my own blood-sister, are completely cloistered nuns. The intellectual, moral, and physical rigor and discipline of their lives would astound you. Far from being emotionally crippled, they are some of the most well-rounded, well-grounded people I've ever met. I have no doubt about the strength of voluntarily cloistered nuns, though the wisdom of removing such strong women from the gene pool seems dubious to me. (And, I was using "nunnery" in the faux Shakespearean sense of "brothel". See here, for example: http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19981016) What I was suggesting was that if the emotional makeup of women is so easy to shatter through the smallest of criticisms, then perhaps women should be involuntarily shuttered away, so as to alleviate this worry. Apologists for the Taliban claimed they restricted the freedom of women for just this purpose - to protect them and their brittle emotional character from the harsh, competitive world of male commerce.

Nor are women who care about the feelings of others 'emotionally crippled.'A woman who falls to pieces at even the gentlest constructive criticism can hardly be characterized as emotionally sound.

As a btw, you are not God. You don't know whether anyone's death is early or not. God talk really makes no sense to me per se. For example, if "God is everywhere", as I've often heard, then I certainly am God, as are you, and everyone else. OTOH, if I am not God, as you say, then God isn't everywhere after all. Divine gibberish, all, and not probative until I understand what you mean when you say "God".

And since I have an actuarial job in the life insurance industry, I dare say I have a better grasp on which deaths are early, and which are not, than most folks.

You rely on exaggeration: I don't treat 'early death' as a 'non-issue.' What I said was that compared to hurt feelings you treat early death as a non-issue. It is a fair assessment of your position that you generally favor unhurt feelings over a life perhaps lengthened through a process that might also cause hurt feelings, no?

I've merely turned the notion of death on its head, in order to cast the issue as one of quality of life, rather than quality of death. I've done so because it is, IMO, a more accurate reflection of the values implicit in not imposing judgments of dietary health/beauty/well-being on people who haven't asked for them.Let me give you a hypothetical example of why this reasoning bothers me: A mother and her child are walking down the street. The child spots a large teddy bear in a store window across the street. The street is full of fast-moving traffic, but the child darts off into the street toward the bear. Should mom grab the child, or let him go?

As I understand your position, you would be compelled to let the child dash into traffic rather than potentially hurting his feelings by restraining him. Indeed, you would be compelled to label a mother who grabbed the child as a "psychopath" or "sociopath" because she protected the life of her child instead of his feelings.

Psychopaths and their ilk care nothing about others - not their lives and not their feelings. Our concern for the health and wellbeing of Runnr's chum surely disqualifies us from membership in that esteemed cohort.

I can see how an unhealthy life might lead to death -- and I can see a very humanitarian concern in wanting to spare someone the consequences of making unhealthy choices. I guess what is really at the heart of our debate/disagreement is the relative value -- or maybe the relative meaning -- we give to the notion of quality of life. In my view, a short happy life is not at all a bad thing. For that matter, a happy life shortened by obesity is not a bad thing. There are 6 billion people on earth, the great, great, great, vast majority of whom are going to Heaven when they die. If this is true, then why under your view of short, happy lives should we not be slaughtering these people wholesale, so that their supreme happiness in Heaven will be immediate? I'm not as convinced as you are that there is an afterlife, or that I would enjoy heaven if I got there. Hanging out with 144,000 celibate men who have not been defiled by women is not my idea of fun - though the alternate place, where all the whores are sent, does sound a bit more promising.

This is a short life, Gotbeer. If you spend it fat and happy, IMO that is no worse than spending it thin and happy. Happiness is a complex thing, don't get me wrong. Nevertheless, it is of great value in life. And people who've experienced the judgmental interventions that you are advocating rarely report being made happy by them. You did not respond empathetically to potatofree's response to you, so I'm not sure you've given yourself time fully to consider that fact. Was potatofree's life-changing nightmare unlinked to her experience with the anonymous "gift"? Maybe yes, maybe no; one cannot be sure. However, it is interesting that it was a traumatic, painful experience, linked to the fear of death no less, that moved her to make changes. That one trauma worked, and one didn't, is worthy of note, but it is a change-in-response-to-pain nevertheless, which is pretty much what I was advocating.

As for the word 'depraved,' well . . . if you say so. My own deep certitude is that you know in both your heart and your mind that nothing said in this thread has been depraved, vacuous, or stifling. You don't even believe that yourself. I was actually thinking about the felony of "Depraved indifference to human life", which is the criminal charge in cases where the defendant did nothing to stop a preventable death. This law reflects a moral and social code that values life above hurt feelings.

[joanee]

I have to say, I like this much better. It's a good, thought-provoking discussion. But if we keep it on this thread, we'll have gone way off-topic by the time we're through. Any interest in a side conversation about the points you raise? If yes, let me know how to contact you. If no, then I look forward to reading your other posts in other threads. You really do raise thought-provoking ideas.

[gotbeer]

Please feel free to post in my journal, Joanee. I raise a lot of provocative issues there, and I enjoy interesting discussions as well.

[IvannaBFit]

I think every person has an ultimate genetic code that they cannot break. For some people this means they could eat until they physically die from obesity . . . they could get to be 300, 400, 500lbs and still gain. For others, like myself, I can only get up to a certain weight before my body says, NO SORRY NOT GONNA DO IT! And I don't gain any more weight above my peak . . . and that's when all the fun stuff comes about such as diabetes and so forth.

I have a friend, a very dear friend, who is at least 250+lbs. She really doesn't eat more than I do, and she was 10x more active than I was in highschool. Soccer, swimming, walking, bicycling all the time. And she was still very very much overweight. I think she has a physical problem -- a hormonal imbalance. Yes, she does eat naughty foods, but not to the extent that she should be 100lbs overweight. I also have a sister in law who was a STICK and starved herself, but now is over 200lbs . . . she eats a lot, sure, but again, it's a hormonal problem (she's had tonnes of tests done) . . . and another one of my close friends has endo (I think) and went from 5'9 and a size six to a size 14.

[GinaLeanne]

Why do the grocery stores offer huge sales on the high carb foods??? Also alot of people do not realize what this stuff can do to their bodies until they get fat. I didn't. I was thin most of my life.

I make things from scratch, and I always have, yet some of the other things like pasta was cheap.....along with the other high carb snacks that were always buy one get one free...that would often satisfy my kids. And they were alot quicker too....

I am now trying to buy meats and other things when they are on sale...

Also women have more stress in the last 50 years than they used to.

We are expected to be the caregiver, worker, and housekeeper....without a support system this can be a real big stressor.I have been a single mom now for almost a decade. I dont have anyone to say to me things will be o.k., or you can do it.........or anyone giving me a handout of money.......I struggle everyday, and my car barely runs. I survive on hope and courage.........

Again, dont judge someone until you've "walked a mile in their shoes".......

For years I focused on my son's happiness and was not so worried about my health or my looks. I feel women tend to focus on others and not themselves, and sometimes we get "distracted" we dont intentionally get fat!!!

[GinaLeanne]

Also, many people have sedentary jobs.......and have busy and stressful home lives. I once worked 60 hours a week in sales sitting down the entire time.........selling total gyms for the infomercials at a local call center... over the phone........do you really think I had much time for excercise? An hour drive to work and an hour home.....and 3 kids waiting at home...???

[dane]

That was one of the best exchanges of ideas I have read on this forum in a LONG time. Well articulated, logical, and thought-provoking. I am sorry to see you take it to the journals........guess I just need to add them to my subscriptions, heh. ;)

[platypusd]

i haven't posted in quite some time. mostly because i am no longer low carbing but i am still subscribed to a couple posts and this one never fails to thrill.

the most important thing i learned from the atkins diet is that it is possible to lose weight while eating foods that give pleasure. eating should feel good. while i didn't feel good on a strick atkins plan, nothing feels better than eliminating overprocessed, high carb, high fat (because it is always both - the worst combo) from your diet.

i know that i am predisposed (genetically and socially) to being overweight. but i totally agree that our way of life and economic structure have contributed to my problems.

just going to do a little promo for an organization in Ontario called Food Share.
They package high quality, fresh, nutritious, food that encourages sustainable farming practices, supports the local economy, and takes issues of social justice into account. The Good Food boxes are sold at cost, and for the busy, tired, infirm or lazy they have one where your veggies are pre-washed and cut for you. while not ideal for induction (they include fruits, and starchy veggies) they are perfect for individuals and families who are trying to eat well (even on a limited budget).

http://www.foodshare.net/goodfoodbox01.htm

[DrippinBld]

I rest my case.:lol:

I don't know what on earth you're talking about my dear lady.

[DrippinBld]

Why are people "so obese"?

Quite simply due to a combination of factors each varying in significance depending on the individual. Circumstances, upbringing, society, genetics and will power (which genetics certainly could be argued to a factor in).

I'm not being a smartass but simply giving my dry objective assessment. Nowhere near as entertaining as the colourful arguing and debate on this thread. :)

[misskimbee]

Ugh, can't we let this thread die please?

[DrippinBld]

no - it shall live for eternity.

[lianna]

Oops,,,,,was going to ask the same thing.........this thread is 3 years old, please give it a R.I.P.

[ms_fortune]

I actually find the topic interesting, although I don't think that the title is very appropriate (many of the people here are not "SO obese", and even if they are clinically obese, the phrasing sounds offensive). I know that I always assumed that overweight people were overweight because they had a genetic predisposition of some sort. I had some friends who were overweight who never ate all that much but they said that their whole family was overweight and their bodies just process food differently. I have always been underweight even though I never had to watch what or how much I ate, and although I wasn't sedentary, I didn't formally exercise. This was because I am young and come from a family where all the women are small boned and under 100 pounds soaking wet and pregnant.

But now, I am forced to analyze the factors of weight gain because I myself have been hit with the reality of rapid and dramatic weight gain. In the past couple of months I have packed on over 30 pounds. For my depression/CFS I am on several medications known to produce quick weight gain and marked increases in appetite and, to quote the medication label "disturbed carbohydrate metabolism." Which sucks because being depressed, all I do is sit around and eat carbs till I pass out. Depression= being tired/craving carbs= eating carbs= getting fat= more depression= eating more carbs. I used to wonder how people got very overweight or how some people gained weight very quickly. Unfortunately, I now know all too well! Anyone else have a similar story?

edited to say:
After rereading the first couple of pages, I have to agree that the tone of this thread was definitely negative. I had the impression however that it was just asking how we gained weight, not "HOW IN THE WORLD COULD ANYONE GET SO FREAKING FAT?" I do not think it is right to place blame on any person or event or to think that gaining lots of weight is some sort of shocking phenomena; there are many medical and personal events that can result in weight gains and until you have walked in someone else's shoes it can be a hard concept to grasp. The reason I replied to this thread and am interested in others' replies is because I was wondering if anyone shares the same experiences in gaining weight as I have, because yes, I have had the awful experience of having people ask in shock, "HOW IN THE WORLD DID YOU GAIN SO MUCH FREAKING WEIGHT IN SUCH A SHORT TIME?"

[FabByFifty]

Hi everyone! :wave: I believe the word OBESE is too strong. It makes some feel as though they are separated from others, and that is unfair. I know a lot of people that hide, don't socialize, and are sooooooooo self concious that it is terrible because of their weight! These are the ones who care the most, and love the most. We all have just as much chance of achieving goals with our weight weather we start out at 200 or 500pds. There is tons of proof right here on this forum! Congratulations to all of you, and these are the people that the Inspiration comes from! :thup: Don't give up, don't give in to societys strains, and don't give in to stupid people!
We are all the same, we have loves, hates, good points, bad points, but in the end we are all just people that have a need to achieve something that is not impossible no matter what weight we started at. :D :thup:
I have faith in all, I will encourage all, and I will support all! :D
Its not OBESE, it is a life of unknowing, and or, unwilling to find ourselves until we face it! (No matter what our weight is.) Then we face it! We find ourselves and the need to be different. We are all just overweight, and some are more so than others.
Good Luck to all of you, and God Bless All of You! Especially those who journeys have brought them to their goals! :thup:
Brenda

[lianna]

Please Let This 2 Year Old Thread Die............do No Respond!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dane]

Please Let This 2 Year Old Thread Die............do No Respond!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think this is a bit strong........ for some of us joining up recently, this is not an "old" thread, and maybe some find it interesting and would like to voice their opinions. Isn't this the whole point of a forum/message board?

[potatofree]

And every time you respond to say NOT to reply, it'll take it right back up to the top. ;)

I like mining for older threads sometimes, there's a lot of info that was posted way back before I joined that's really worth a look!

Check out the "Best Of" section if you want some good reading, dane!

[dane]

Check out the "Best Of" section if you want some good reading, dane!Thanks PF! I see some interesting topics in there. :)

[FabByFifty]

Thanks you Dane and Potatofree! Tell her! I still go by what I posted!
Thanks for the support of a thread that deserves to be addressed!
Brenda

[burchets]

I think the reason a lot of people become obese is that their systems produce too much insulin which makes anything they eat get stored as fat, which in turn creates up and down blood sugar swells, which makes them crave more carbs, and the whole vicious cycle starts over again. Also, the availability and constant flooding of our culture of fast convenience foods which are just plain unhealthy. Besides, once you get fat, you say oh it doesn't matter what i do I can't stop losing weight, you get depressed and you just give up. That's what I did till I made a serious decision to do something about it and decided that low carb made me feel the best.

[joanie]

For me, it was a combination of things: poor eating habits combined with a changing metabolism, eating for the wrong reasons (ie, NOT eating because of biological hunger) and so on.

Although there are certainly those who gain more easily (PCOS, hypothyroid) most of us gain for other reasons, I think. It has been shown that overweight people have higher levels of ghrelin, which is a hormone that stimulates hunger. So maybe there is more at play here than a simple lack of willpower. However, I know for me, and other obese people I know, we eat when we shouldn't eat. We eat long after we feel full, we eat foods that we know aren't good for us no matter what food plan we are on, and we eat when we are stressed, upset, or depressed.

Of course, most fat people already know this, so the problem is much more complicated. Unlike tobacco or alcohol, we can't survive without food. It makes it much more difficult when someone has to ingest moderate amounts of the substance to which they are addicted!

After losing a lot of weight over the past 14 months, I am hoping and praying that it will stay off this time. I have reason to believe it will, but those demons are always there, ready to encourage me to eat, eat, eat!

[Alison1976]

Maybe this has already been said (I read the first few pages and the last few pages, but didn't have time to read everything in between...sorry), but I would like to address the question about why AMERICANS are, and Europeans (for the most part) are not "overly fat". I propose that it has something to do with the role of government in our daily diets. When did the food guide pyramid come out? When did it become fashionable to "diet"? Before the government started to dictate what is healthy and what is not, I think Americans were just as fit and healthy as the average European.

As many have said on this thread, yo-yo dieting on low-fat diets over the years is one of the things that has caused their obesity. Would we all have been doing those low-fat diets if we were not taught in school, on tv, by our parents that low-fat would help you lose weight and be healthier? Probably not. This is a relatively recent phenomenon (like, the past 50 years or so) in America.

Now, I don't claim to be an expert on European government's involvement in their constituent's diets, but I would think that most people in Europe continue to eat the diets that their parents and grandparents have eaten. More whole foods, less processed crap (since the processed crap seems to mostly originate in America). However, now that the crap has made its way over to Europe (along with the fast food), I would predict we see a rise in obesity over there too.

Just a thought...

[komireds]

Hmmmm…..why am I obese?


A very difficult, emotionally draining concept to get my head around.

As a kid, I was always “stocky.” I played every sport imaginable, loved them all, excelled at them all, but I was always…well….stocky. The Doctors told my parents I should lose weight (at about 9 years old, I guess).

My parents sent me to a nutritionist. They were very uncomfortable about it. I was the only one in my immediate family with a weight problem. I ate the same as everyone else (except I did enjoy more rice and crabs than my sister), but I was short and would easily gain weight (muscle too). My sis is tall and thin. Anyway, I learned from an early age that this was something to be ashamed of. The Nutritionist put me on low fat/high calorie. I lost the recommended weight, but—and I can remember this clearly—the day after I had my successful weigh in, I stuffed my face with chips. I had never eaten like that—gorging and stuffing myself and trying to hide it—at least not until I “dieted.” Somehow the deprivation lead me to a new level of indulgence. It is quite clear to me now.

I remained stocky most of my young life. Still played sports—still excelled. I had an anorexic episode where I starved myself down to 115 pounds at about the age of 13. My parents gave me a lot of positive attention when I was rail thin (even though I was obviously sick). I could barely play sports anymore at this weight and I was dizzy most of the time.

I got over it and continued to be mildly obese, but quite healthy and active in high school. I tried at various points to lose weight, but it always seemed to get in the way of my happiness (and sports). I had varying levels of success, but I would always put it back on again.

Drugs and cigarettes helped keep me thin in college. When I left college I was depressed and lost. I turned to alcohol—namely beer and carbs carbs carbs! I no longer had organized, competitive sports in my life and this change in lifestyle packed on more LBs. I had an “office job” for this first time and this hurt! Sitting at a desk all day. I felt like a caged lion. Once the weight started to come on, the depression and shame joined forces and I felt pretty powerless to overcome it.

So, here I am, much older and still wrestling with these demons. Low carb really seems like a sane option for me, but I have a tough time not reverting back to my comfort food. I hope to make better choices more consistently as I try to move toward a healthier emotional relationship with my body and with food.

[Judynyc]

This thread was started 7/02..thats almost 4 yrs ago. I wish this thread would die already. If it responded to, then it stays alive.

Please let this thread die....never to be resurrected again.

[Bobi-p]

This thread was started 7/02..thats almost 4 yrs ago. I wish this thread would die already. If it responded to, then it stays alive.

Please let this thread die....never to be resurrected again.

I was just thinking the same thing, the original poster hasn't even posted since July 2002, and his total post count was 18.

:lol: But...guess what Judy...we just contributed to its resurrection!

[Judynyc]

I was just thinking the same thing, the original poster hasn't even posted since July 2002, and his total post count was 18.

:lol: But...guess what Judy...we just contributed to its resurrection!


Yes but hopefully newbies will see our posts and not answer anymore!! ;)

[dane]

Yes but hopefully newbies will see our posts and not answer anymore!!Why not? As newbies, they haven't seen this thread before, and maybe they'd like to contribute their views. I know I read this thread for the first time in '04, and it was interesting to me then. It's still interesting to me now, and I appreciate reading new views and opinions. If this thread bugs you, don't read it. Dur.

[joanie]

I agree. Although the original motivation for starting this thread may have been disingenuous, it is useful for those of us who struggle with obesity to think about how we got obese. If we don't do so, we may well be doomed to repeat the struggle. I am very close to my weight loss goal now, and I find myself having to remember how I got morbidly obese, and never become complacent, or I'll get fat again.

I find myself examining the contents of grocery baskets at the supermarket, and there really does seem to be a correlation between the contents and the person's weight. YES, this is a gross generalization. YES, it is possible that the person is buying groceries for someone else. But, I do notice that in my age group, the people buying junk food are heavier, and the ones buying fruits, veggies and meats are thinner. (Teenagers seem to have endless reserves, and I see plenty of thin teens eating crap, but for us middle-aged folks, there is no such free ride!)

Anyway, introspective thought is a good thing, and should be encouraged. Just my two cents, as always...

[komireds]

Thanks, Joanie. I felt a bit stupid opening my life like that and having people shoot me down for posting on a thread they didn't like. It was hard for me to write that.

I hope it helps someone else.

[joanie]

No problem! Keep posting, and keep examining your eating habits. If you do so, I can almost guarantee you'll have greater success in the long run.

[alisbabe]

A combination of low fat / low calorie dieting and excessive cardio, severe hypoglycemia and a little insulin resistance had me up to over 241 lbs. I dieted myself fat - it took a few years, it was very frustrating and not much fun.

You'll find mine is a pretty common answer.

As Raz suggested, read Adiposity 101 - it's a real eye opener.

Nat

Amen.

I was an extremely skinny child. Then I hit puberty and developed a pot belly.

My parents were always very health concious. We were not allowed junk food at all. In fact we didn't eat much meat either. We ate a lot of soya, fruit and vegetables.

As soon as the weight started to notice, my parents went ape. Fatty food was banned. I was allowed meals like weetabix, orange juice and banana for breakfast. Actually I stopped eating breakfast at about age 12 and it's only since LCing that I've started eating it again.

My parents weighed and measured my food and weighed me daily. The weight continued to creep on.

I was always quite an active person. As a family, we'd think nothing of hiking ten miles or more. I walked to school and back every day. We went swimming a couple of times a week. I played sports at school a couple of times a week, despite having asthma which could make it quite tortuous.

No matter, by the time I left home I weighed more than 200 pounds, though some of that was muscle.

I carried on eating two meals a day in adulthood, mostly low fat, high carb. I ate a lot of bread, pasta and tomatos, that kind of thing. Additionally, I discovered junk food and alcohol, which definitely didn't help. I'll also hold my hand up to being a comfort eater. So despite working outdoors in all weathers for most of my adult life, I'm well on my way to 300 pounds. With low carbing (stone age diet), I've stabilised and am slowly starting to lose weight.

I suffer from polycystic ovary syndrome and insulin resistance, and have also discovered I have gluten intolerance and casein intolerance. Caused by my obesity or a comlicating factor, who knows.

I'm just glad I finally found a solution. I'm the only overweight member of my family.

[JandLsMom]

But still obese, huh? :thdown: I doubt most would agree with that....

all the weight charts would call 200 obese at that height..and so would i!!
i am 5/9 1/2" and at 200 i am still obese, trust me! :lol:

[JandLsMom]

The reason so many Americans are obese is simple..too much sugar and carbs! For me personally i did the whole yo yo dieting thing for years and tried the low fat low cal diets, but for my hubby..he never yo yo dieted, he never did low cal or low fat..and he ended up weighing 340 lbs by age 29!! Then he went on Atkins and lost 90 lbs bringing him down to 250 lbs (which is barely overweight for his height of 6'5"). After a couple years he has now decided to continue on and lose ALL his body fat so he is back on atkins shooting for 215 lbs. Anyways, he is an example of someone that got obese simply by eating a bunch of fast food, sugar and carbs!

[Amber130]

"oh no, look at this conceited drug-fed a**hole over there what does he think who he is?"

Nails it on the head himself....thanks.

[Ml_JA]

Food may have a part in it but I think not being active enough contributes to obesity much more. With the invention of Tv's, cars, nintendoes, computers and all our other convieniences, we stay on our butts almost the whole day long.

We drive to work, sit at the computer, drive home and sit and watch tv. There is a little activity in between those obviously but not nearly enough as our bodies need.

I personally have started to use the computer more because of my home business and although I am 115 right now I do see the pounds creeping on and the flabbiness building up. This always happens in the Winter. I gain maybe 5-10 lbs. When Summer comes I use the computer still but I am more active and the pounds drop off easily.

[fluffybear]

I grew up VERY skinny and even as a young adult at 5 ft. 10 inches and 125 lbs. I was very thin. I gained weight with each of my 5 children and never completely shed the extra lbs. I had gained with the pregnancies. My weight finally settled in at about 160. I still looked pretty good because my weight was stretched out on my tall frame. While in my 30's, I had a lot of dental work done. Unfortunately I had an incompetant military dentist who kept losing the files he was using for my root canal down into my tooth. He gave me multiple xrays to find the file ea. time he would lose one. I got concerned and just didn't go back, but the damage was done--my thyroid was almost completely destroyed from the excessive xrays. I was lucky I didn't get cancer. Anyway, after that I began to feel very sluggish and would be sleepy all day long. I would just pass out and sleep for hours if I was at home. Also, even though my eating habits were the same as always, I began to gain weight and no matter how hard I tried, I could not lose it. Finally I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. That was the good news (at least I knew what was causing my weight gain). The bad news was I was beginning menopause, which further slowed down my metabolism. A DOUBLE whammy! Being on thryroid medication stopped my weight gain, but it doesn't help me to lose the weight I already gained. My weight had shot up to 260. I was miserable. Then I discovered low carbing. I have lost more than 20 lbs. but its taken 2 years. I am still working on it and losing a little at a time very slowly. But at least I am not gaining. That is MY story. http://forum.lowcarber.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Frederick]

Everytime I see this thread pop-up, I think back to Kristen (the mod) observing how this thread has become like "Return of the Living Dead."

It just won't die....LMAO

[joanie]

Why or how this thread started is completely irrelevant. Thinking about how you got obese is IMPORTANT. In fact, to not do so almost guarantees that you will fail in your weight loss/get healthy quest. The reason the thread doesn't die is because the core question is a critical one.

[Saintor]

I do not quite qualify, but I'll bite.

My best guess is that because I developed a taste for sugar so young.

In retrospective, I see that my family served very reasonable portions.

What was not reasonable was the free access to snacks anytime. snacks that would be tons of Fudge-o, Oreo, Honeycomb.

I must be lucky to not be diabetic.

Since I learnt to change my taste in 2003, my world has changed.

[Bexicon]

Why or how this thread started is completely irrelevant. Thinking about how you got obese is IMPORTANT. In fact, to not do so almost guarantees that you will fail in your weight loss/get healthy quest. The reason the thread doesn't die is because the core question is a critical one.Well said. This thread seriously improves with age. To whoever starts harping next about killing it, I have one question: How did you become so obese? ;)

Take a swing at my post count. C'mon, I dare ya.

[Marvin]

Hmm,

In my case, and in most people's cases I really do not think it can be pinpointed so easily and simplified like saying "it was the sugar". Oh, but it was so much more than just sugar. Yes, something like that did contribute immensly, but so did all the other factors throughout ones life of ill fated choices. It was just one factors in a unafortunate sequence of change that occured. No one was born fat.

It has to do with much more. To me, weight loss is oh soooo much more than just eating right and excercising.

Weight loss, and the subsequent "learning" is a unique amalgamate of mind, body, and soul. When you have certain elements, be it emotional, societal, physical or whatever that cause and gear you towards an unhealthy weight situation, it is extremely difficult to grasp the problem.

It has more to do with "don't eat the cake", but more so "why do you wan't cake to begin with", and better yet "why is it there". Yes even cake has and had a purpose, and that is what I strive to find out.

The journey is far from over, with anyone. It has just began.

[Born2run]

I blame low cal dieting and yoyo dieting. And alot of people are afraid of fat in there food. So they starve themselves with all the empty calories, and if you eat carby/ starchy food you are hungry in an hour tops. I can tell you that from experience. There was nobody more dedicated to ultra low fat dieting then I was, and I was always hungry. So misinformation is the key to diet failure. Judy

[Judynyc]

Well said. This thread seriously improves with age. To whoever starts harping next about killing it, I have one question: How did you become so obese? ;)

Take a swing at my post count. C'mon, I dare ya.


Yes it does get better!! :agree: And when I said that I wished it would die, I was wrong and Joanie is right!! :thup:

I find it funny that you registered to make a post with no stats....hiding much? :lol: :p

[nedgoudy]

I became obese largely
because I led an emotionally
crippled life for about the
first 45 years. That and a poor
self image whose inner voice
told me there was no use to
try to get ahead in anyway as
I was a worthless piece of
crap.

In addition, I became obese
for lack of exercise and the
'education' I received on TV
that eating Cheeseburgers,
Ice Cream and all the other
CRAP FOODS was a normal
American diet. :agree:

When I decided I would no
longer beat myself up for who
I was, I began to have a bit of
faith that I could improve my
piddly lot in life to a degree and
started eating healthy!

[ojoj]

I was a carboholic, simple, I had no control and couldnt stop eating em! I've now broken that addiction and will never go back

[Marvin]

I became obese largely
because I led an emotionally
crippled life for about the
first 45 years. That and a poor
self image whose inner voice
told me there was no use to
try to get ahead in anyway as
I was a worthless piece of
crap.

me and you are very similar. except I feel like that now.

[Skelington]

I personally think that you guys should go and get a life. I mayseem scathing but thats who I am. I mean, you are all talking aobut "low carb" diets and why you are so fat, its so obvious. I can't beleive adults don't even know this, look at the food pyramid at tell me what foods are at the bottom? Now tell me why we have to eat carbs? To have energy to exercise of course.

And don't talk about that "emotional eating" bull dust. The reason you guys are fat is because you eat something and say "Hey that's tasty!, I'm going to have some more!" and stuff you guts full of food.

Do you really think that signing up on some website will make you a slimmer healthier person? I mean surfing the web is how you got fat in the first place so obviously going on a website every day isn't going to help.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not like that german guy who just went on google images and typed in "gay porn" for his display picture, just to mock others. It is so infuriating to see these fattys complaining about emotional distress, GETOVER IT.

[Rosebud]

I personally think that you guys should go and get a life. I mayseem scathing but thats who I am. I mean, you are all talking aobut "low carb" diets and why you are so fat, its so obvious. I can't beleive adults don't even know this, look at the food pyramid at tell me what foods are at the bottom? Now tell me why we have to eat carbs? To have energy to exercise of course.

And don't talk about that "emotional eating" bull dust. The reason you guys are fat is because you eat something and say "Hey that's tasty!, I'm going to have some more!" and stuff you guts full of food.

Do you really think that signing up on some website will make you a slimmer healthier person? I mean surfing the web is how you got fat in the first place so obviously going on a website every day isn't going to help.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not like that german guy who just went on google images and typed in "gay porn" for his display picture, just to mock others. It is so infuriating to see these fattys complaining about emotional distress, GETOVER IT.
Hmm. Why exactly did you join this low carb support forum if not to mock?

Rosebud:rose:

[Zer]

me and you are very similar. except I feel like that now.
__________________
--- Jesse --- real name.

the battle continues.... Jesse, I am very interested to hear what you want in life. You have achieved an amazing thing, changing your body to match a vision you've held to - through thick and thin. Yeah, I find your story inspirational. Now I'd like to know what it is in this post that brought forth your admission that you feel the way this writer felt about being obese, even though you've let go of the pounds: I became obese largely
because I led an emotionally
crippled life for about the
first 45 years. That and a poor
self image whose inner voice
told me there was no use to
try to get ahead in any way as
I was a worthless piece of crap. I'm asking because I wonder what I will discover about myself when I cannot blame my fat for my limitations and for what I think is wrong with me. It's easy now to blame the fat that slows me down, keeps me from socializing, from risking. Can I find out something from your own struggle, Jesse, as you say the battle continues... and refer to a struggle now in facing life without the cushion of fat that still wraps me up? I have a lot of anxiety about excavating the Thin Me Within. I'd like to find out more about what you feel about the trim man you've become. -Zer (who suspects maybe the chap who asked this question originally has a few issues of his own that might lead him into obesity if he let his guard down? I'm only guessing. It's difficult to imagine anyone with a trim body has issues, but Happily Ever After is a story ending and is hardly ever a model for real life.)

[MeBLady]

I personally think that you guys should go and get a life. I mayseem scathing but thats who I am. I mean, you are all talking aobut "low carb" diets and why you are so fat, its so obvious. I can't beleive adults don't even know this, look at the food pyramid at tell me what foods are at the bottom? Now tell me why we have to eat carbs? To have energy to exercise of course.

And don't talk about that "emotional eating" bull dust. The reason you guys are fat is because you eat something and say "Hey that's tasty!, I'm going to have some more!" and stuff you guts full of food.

You may be surprised to get some agreement here....but I actually agree with you....as far as my own circumstances that is.

I was not an emotional eater, I became obese over a period of 8 years simply by eating a bunch of crap that I thought was tasty. Got away with it due to a great motab. for years until I got a little older and it bailed on me.

I don't really understand the mindset of an "emotional eater" that much, when I am anxious, depressed, or stressed, I tend to do the opposite -- I starve. However, starving, then eating when you get hungry again can also wreck the motab. and cause one's body to store fat.

Do you really think that signing up on some website will make you a slimmer healthier person? I mean surfing the web is how you got fat in the first place so obviously going on a website every day isn't going to help.

I would say that sitting on the internet certainly contributed to my "fatness". I earned an income for five years this way and the ole "secretary spread" really took a nice large shape.

However, signing up and reading/posting in THIS forum, in between reading my LC book, preparing my LC meals and eating them, and exercising.....it drastically changed my life over the course of a year. Not only am I no longer obese, I'm maintaining a healthy, ideal weight, feel better than I have ever felt in my life, and eat as much or as little as I darn well want to.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not like that german guy who just went on google images and typed in "gay porn" for his display picture, just to mock others. It is so infuriating to see these fattys complaining about emotional distress, GETOVER IT.

At least the "fattys" here are attempting to do something about it, and if you look around you, you will find that many, like myself, were actually successful.

Most of my life I was thin...and when you have never been fat, it is so easy to pass judgment. I know, I did my share of judging.

One day, when I was sitting at my heaviest, someone said a comment to me that I had thought many times when I saw an overweight person....."What a waste, you have such a pretty face". My first thought was how DARE that person say that to ME??

People staring at you whenever you ate something in public, being embarrassed that your body would be covered in sweat, huffing and puffing, by walking up a mere flight of stairs. Unable to wear anything without bulges and rolls clearly visible. Feeling so miserable mentally and physically that enjoying life just isn't possible, watching your weight climb higher and higher without any hope or knowing of a way to take it off.

Until you've walked into a "fatty's" shoes, be careful in your judgment....you never know if one day you WILL be walking in those shoes, and wishing those who are trim and fit will blow up like a balloon so they will understand what it feels like.

[MeBLady]

I'm asking because I wonder what I will discover about myself when I cannot blame my fat for my limitations and for what I think is wrong with me. It's easy now to blame the fat that slows me down, keeps me from socializing, from risking. Can I find out something from your own struggle, Jesse, as you say the battle continues... and refer to a struggle now in facing life without the cushion of fat that still wraps me up? I have a lot of anxiety about excavating the Thin Me Within. I'd like to find out more about what you feel about the trim man you've become. -Zer (who suspects maybe the chap who asked this question originally has a few issues of his own that might lead him into obesity if he let his guard down? I'm only guessing. It's difficult to imagine anyone with a trim body has issues, but Happily Ever After is a story ending and is hardly ever a model for real life.)

I think that everybody, fat or skinny, has their share of issues with both self esteem and body image.

However, living as a fat person and living as a skinny person are very different, and the transition from one to the other requires some adjustments.

One WILL change, IMO, with their size and shape, but they are still the same person deep within. Losing a bunch of weight isn't the key to happiness, but feeling better both mentally and physically is certainly a great place to start.

[Zer]

I think that everybody, fat or skinny, has their share of issues with both self esteem and body image.

However, living as a fat person and living as a skinny person are very different, and the transition from one to the other requires some adjustments.

One WILL change, IMO, with their size and shape, but they are still the same person deep within. Losing a bunch of weight isn't the key to happiness, but feeling better both mentally and physically is certainly a great place to start. Ah, then the secret of changing body size is not to put too much weight (ha ha ha) on the magic of molding a new body? Just as money does not ensure happiness, being thin is no assurance of living Happily Ever After. We all face ordinary life hurdles day after day. Ah, so... -Zer (who kind of wishes my fantasy of having no problems except obesity was not just a fantasy)